My future Equipment Advice Needed.

[johnpartridge]

Hello, I have been a long term lurker on this forum and now I am getting back into Photography again properly and I am starting to sort out my equipment.

For the last few years I was using my trusty 10D and Kit lens.

I upgraded the Lens to a 17-40mm L something which I have wanted to do for many years, bought it off a member of this forum and Im VERY happy with it, as my first L piece of glass it is very impressive.

I am now a little stuck on what to do next, so Im turning to you to help me with advice and suggestions.

The Photography I will be doing is mainly, Motorsports and Landscapes + a few concert shots at work when I am not busy working in the roof! I am mainly interested in the Motorsports myself As I do a bit of Rally driving myself and actually own a very special and famous Rally car. I always struggle to get good shots of the car, so Hopefully by investing in some good quality equipment I shall be able to take better shots of it.

My current setup as of today is 10D (No grip) 430EX II and 17-40mm L

Now for the future, I want to invest in something from the 70-200mm L range and you can pickup an F4.0 for around £400.

The problem in the decision comes when I look at the 10D, I can pickup a used 40D for around £400 also. How much could I sell the 10D for do you recon?

So do I spend £400 on the lens and maybe get a grip for the 10D and then stick with that body for a while. Or purchase the 40D body and then get the 70-200 at a later date.

I cant afford right now to purchase both at the same time, keeping the rally car going is more financially demanding than most would imagine.

My ideal setup would be a newish body with 70-200mm L , 50mm 1.4 (for work) and 17-40mm for shots of the car in service park etc.

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks
John Partridge

[PhotosGuy]

My thought is, can you get better shots with the 40D & 17-40, or with the 10D & 70-200?
Keep the 10D now, & later as backup. You won't get much for it.

[johnpartridge]

My thought is, can you get better shots with the 40D & 17-40, or with the 10D & 70-200?
Keep the 10D now, & later as backup. You won't get much for it.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling, I think you are right, I hadn't really considered getting rid of the 10D until I got the 17-40 and have been wondering if the 10D is pushing the limits of the lens enough?

Will I see much improvement in the quality of the shots if I upgrade the body? Can the 10D still provide good motorsport shots If I team it with good L glass?

I think I will enjoy my photography more using my 10D which I know inside out and pairing that up with a 70-200 L and thats what its all about really isn't it?. Im not one for trying to show off that i've got the new Canon 5Ds MK VIIII etc, that body purely isn't built for someone like me. Id rather stick with something I know inside out and spend the money on a holiday to a nice Photographic location around the world.

Then maybe in the future upgrade the body to a used 40D and sell the 10D or go to a Dual camera setup one for 17-40 and one for 70-200 using my 10D.

Many thanks

[Lowner]

My own choice for your motorsports images would be the 100-400L and stay with the 10D. Then when finances permit investigate a 1.4x converter. Only after that would I think about a camera upgrade.

But your landscape work would be best done with a full frame body, something like a 5D maybe.

And thats the problem many of us who shoot motorsports and landscapes have. Two entirely opposing requirements! I currently use a 30D, it's a reasonable motorsports body and provided I am very careful with my composition and don't crop much it does a reasonable job for landscapes. But start cropping hard and quality disappears down the drain.

[johnpartridge]

My own choice for your motorsports images would be the 100-400L and stay with the 10D. Then when finances permit investigate a 1.4x converter. Only after that would I think about a camera upgrade.

Interesting comments, they make quite alot of sense. I have considered the 100-400L, and actually my girlfriend has one sitting in her room and not being used! So I can borrow that occasionally, but I will still need to purchase something of my own as its not hers.

Would I not be best suited getting something around the F4 / F2.8 mark? Dark murky forest rally stages might suffer from the F5.6 on the 100-400? What are your experiences with this?

Also, the used price of a 100-400 L is around £800 thats the same price as the 70-200 F4 and 40D would be?

Thanks

[Lowner]

I tend to shoot more circuit stuff than Rallying so don't have to worry about dark forest stages! The problem is not just expense, can you imagine the size and weight of a 400 f/2.8? As it is I use a monopod with the 100-400.

You could also consider the Sigma 150-500.

[DC Fan]

Some of the best motorsports images posted on this forum (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=793101) came from a 40D, and a 10D is still very workable. So, the choice will come down to the lens. For motorsports, the longer the better. One relatively inexpensive alternative is the Tokina 80-400mm, (http://www.tokinalens.com/products/tokina/afl-12.html) which captured Bruce Litton in his Top Fuel car.

http://www.kevinlillard.com/racing/20090907a1347.jpg


Around the same price is the Canon 70-300mm IS USM, (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-70-300mm-f-4-5.6-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx) which caught Robert Ballou in his sprint car on dirt.

http://www.kevinlillard.com/racing/200907161252a.jpg


Technique will be as important as equipment, of course.

[mrfixitx]

I would think with motorsports you would want to upgrade you body for something with faster AF and a larger buffer as both have improved significantly since the 10D. If you do not have any issue with the AF,resolution or buffer size of the 10D then I would say save your money and invest in better glass.

[Mike Hoyer]

If it's rallying you don't really need 400mm, a 70-200 would be fine.

[johnpartridge]

Hmm we have some mixed advice, pro's and cons for both sides weather I should upgrade body or lens now.

Lens wise I only really would like to consider Canon branded lenses. Something I have learned to trust and love. I think the 100-400 isnt really best suited to what I would shoot. And the 70-200 would be.

Another question would be, Does spending £800 on a 2nd hand 2.8 70-200 sound better than spending £400 on a F4.0 70-200 and then the other £400 on upgrading the body at a later date?

Questions Questions Questions.

Also technique as mentioned is something which I have practised quite alot and something which I believe, while I have more learning to do (who doesn't!) It isn't really holding me back at the moment. I have managed to take some good photos with my old standard kit lens at 80mm so I feel investing in good quality L glass will improve my photos even more.

[GSH]

If it's rallying you don't really need 400mm, a 70-200 would be fine.

First sensible reply on this thread.


A 100-400L is pointless for UK Forest Rallies. It's too slow and too long.

As for £800 for a used 70-200, you should be able to pick up a used non IS version for less than that or cast your net a bit wider and look beyond white lenses..

[johnpartridge]

Yep thanks for some good comments here. Starting to make sense to keep the 10D for now and invest in a lens from the 70-200L range.

Im ruling out the 100-400 purely because it is going to be too slow for me as my last lens (standard kit lens) which I was playing with before struggled on nearly all the events I used and that was at F5.6 same as the 100-400.

Definitely something out of the 70-200 range would be suited for me. Question now is Do i go F4 or f2.8. IS doesn't really bother me as in Rallying and at 200mm I'm not really sure if it will help me? I can most likely handhold / monopod that. Will the 2.8 be a good justification for the extra few hundred pounds needed to go from F4 - F2.8 or would a sensable thing to do be, purchase the F4.0 and see how that goes for a while, they hold value rather well so could upgrade to the 2.8 at a later date?

[Cadwell]

For rallying get the f/2.8 and keep the 10D.

I used a 10D for years (it still sometimes gets an airing despite me also owning 1D Mark II/III and IV). If you can't shoot decent motorsport with the EOS 10D then a "better" body won't help you.

Now, remember that all Canon lenses focus wide open and rally stages are often dark, murky places. Also remember that an f/2.8 lets twice as much light hit your camera's AF sensors than an f/4 lens does. Can you see where I am going with this? It doesn't matter whether you shoot at f/2.8 or not, your focus accuracy will be much better (and faster) with an f/2.8 than with an f/4 even if you're shooting at actual aperture of f/5.6.

As you mentioned, don't be concerned with IS, it isn't particularly helpful in the circumstances you'll be shooting. Also consider the excellent Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 as a cheaper alternative to the Canon L (yes, I know you said "I only like Canon" but that's not really a logical position to hold).

The 100-400L is firmly in the chocolate teapot category for rally work. Other f/5.6 lenses aren't much better.

In short, for forest rallying forget about f/5.6 lenses, f/4s sort of work and f/2.8s are better. The 10D does just fine (unless you're a fan of spray and pray techniques and excessive chimping).

[Jim M]

Not being a rally shooter, I can't recommend a lens, although in drag racing I use the daylights out of my 70-200 f2.8 Canon. However, I'd say keep the 10D if it's working for you. I've used a 10D, 30D, and 50D. Out of those three, the best images in my mind were from the 10D. It isn't all megapixels and fps.

[johnpartridge]

Thanks for all the help here, I think I will keep my 10D for a while longer then.

I am going to go for the 70-200mm just next need to decide weather to go for a F4.0 quickly (takes less time to save up for) and see how that goes and weather the upgrade to the 2.8 will benefit me more or should I just slog it out and save up for the 2.8mm

How much would a used 2.8 none IS set me back?

Thanks

[Reflections2000]

Thanks for the post John. I've been using the 10D for years. Just looked at my reciept, paid $1,400 for it in early 2004. Ouch. I've always shoy L glass, started with Canon film bodies, and am happy that I invested early in good L glass regardless of the beating I've taken on bodies over the years. I just purchased a 50D for an upcoming Africa trip, and was trying to decide if I should upgrade my 10D or something newer as a backup. Lots of recommendations for keeping the 10D, and others with all kind of suggestions to upgrade to 20/30/40D's as back up. All rather confusing. But I think that the money os likley best spend on glass, as long as your 10D takes crisp pictures when mated with good glass. That said, like you, I'm still trying to sort it all out.....

[bensherman2]

My take on lenses is buy the fastest you can why buy a F4 only to replace it 6 months down the line with a F2.8 once you realize it wont cut it in low-light. I paid £650 for my Canon 70-200 f2.8 non-is last summer (09), looks a bit battered but its sharp as a razor. On the body selection process I would keep your 10D (I started with a 450D and have upgraded to a 1D mk2 however the 450D takes photo's as sharp as the 1D when used correctly).

[johnpartridge]

Sounds like very sensible advice to me, Thank you!

BenSherman2 where did you get your 70-200 2.8 for £650. This is what I am looking to pay, I'm guessing it was a trade off here?

Think I will be keeping my 10D for a while longer. Hopefully get a Grip for it and Hopefully Ill save for the 70-200 2.8

[bensherman2]

Hi John, I got it off Ebay - it looks a bit rough on the edges and tripod mount has paint missing but optically perfect. Also bought a Sigma 120-300mm f2.8 off Ebay for £1100 last summer. I shoot rugby most weeks but are going to try my hand at some rallys this year. I just need to find some reasonably local to me. There are bargains to be had on Ebay you just have to be patient - good luck in your quest and you wont be disappointed with the 70-200 f2.8.

Cheers
Matt

[johnpartridge]

Thanks alot for all your comments on this topic.

I have decided to keep my 10D

And I am now in the market for a used 70-200mm F2.8 Non IS

[johnpartridge]

I did it! Purchased my 70-200mm F2.8 today. Got a really good deal and loving the lens! Never used anything that goes below F4.0 before so this is new!

Can't wait to put it to use on some motorsports this coming year, ill be sure to post some of the best pictures on here!

[onesickpuppy]

My second shooter went through the same questioning........... f4 or 2.8 versions

I showed her that for the style of shooting...mostly shooting at 5.6 or F8....get the F4 version
and save weight and $$'s. She is now saving for the 24-70 2.8 which we do 80% of our shots with.

I'd do the 70-200 f4 and get the 40D for iso performance......which is how you can make up for not having the 2.8 one.

[Jimil]

You are getting good advice here. While it would be nice to get an updated body, put your money into good glass. Doesn't matter what body you have if your lenses aren't up to snuff.