growing tired of the d60

[stevechoi]

As im starting to take better photos i find myself thinking if i need a newer camera. I love everything about my d60 but with all the newer cameras out there like the DR, 10D and 20D i feel like its time for a change. Im thinking of picking up either a Digital rebel, xt or a 20D if price is right. What do you guys think? would any of the digital rebel series be a good upgrade? Comments greatly appreciated!

Steve

[93octane]

I never got to use a D60 but over at Pbase every picture I have seen taken with a D60 has amazed me. All the pictures seem to clear, sharp, and colorful is hard to believe the XT,10D, and 20D have a better sensor but yet I seem to believe the D60 takes better pictures maybe its just me.

[tim]

If you upgrade you'd probably be more comfortable with the 20D, as it has the same dial and probably more similar controls than the rebel. If you don't mind changing and having a less friendly user interface a rebel would probably give better picture quality, though judging by the previous post that's debatable :)

[ScottE]

I have a D60 and acquired a 20D last fall. From the day I got it, I considered the D60 to be a temporary measure because it is no where near the EOS 3 film camera I was previously using.

I switched to the 20D because of the better autofocus that is faster and has more focus points than the paltry 3 on the D60. The camera turns almost immediately instead of the long wait with the D60 and if it goes into sleep mode it is almost instantaneous to wake up when you want a to take a picture. For sports, the frames per second are much faster and if you take your finger off the shutter button, you can immediately start again without having to wait for the buffer to clear. The buffer on the 20D is large enough that it is practical to use RAW mode for sports (7 frames before it is full) while I always had to use JPG with the D60. If you make big enlargements you can see a slight improvement in resolution with the 20D because of the 8 MP sensor.

I got some really good pictures with the D60, but the 20D is a much more pleasant camera to work with. You are not contantly working around the limitations of the camera like you have to with the D60.

Scott

[stevechoi]

thanks guys for the great comments. Now im leaning more towards a drebel xt or the drebel, at the great prices that they are offering, + 1 good lens. just want an opinion whether i should just keep the d60 or get a drebel or the xt.

Steve

[Michaelmjc]

Depends on what you're shooting, the XT is faster, smaller, more features but if you wont ever use them get the 300D.

[cc10d]

I would recomend either the XT or the 20D. 20D is the camera I use and find it to be the ONE. Moving from the 60, I think, (especially with the rebate right now) you would be happier with the 20D in the long run. you mentioned it the original post. Between rebel and rebel xt, no contest, XT. If I were buying right now it would be the 20D.

[joeseph]

Having just gone from D60 to 20D in the past couple of weeks, there are a few other things I think they've gotten better at.
Having the CF card read/write LED on the back where you can see it for example. Having the sensor clean menu item not hidden among the options. Having a huge speed advantage in terms of power-on and burst capability. Better high ISO performance.
The only thing I'm going to have to get used to is the power on switch is a little more fiddly.
Don't think you're going to get huge improvements in picture quality though, you'll probably notice only sharper pictures as a result of better/faster focussing and less noise at highter ISO.

[chris clements]

Sorry, but I can't see the logic of 'downgrading' from the 60 to either 300 or 350.
Neither outperform it to any significant degree, and with both you can feel in your hands where the money has been saved.

If you're used to the size, handling and build quality of the 60, then the 20 is the only way to go.

Stick with the 60 and buy glass !!

[bauerman]

The 300D is NOT a downgrade from the D60 in many ways Chris - I'm not sure what you are basing that comment on. Black color and the rear accessory wheel alone do not a better camera make! Let's see how the D60 and the 300D compare in important areas:

D60 - Plastic shell 300D - Plastic shell
D60 - No EF-S 300D - EF-S Compatible
Same sensor size - Same cropping factor (1.6)
D60 - Older EXIF standard - 300D - new EXIF 2.2
D60 - Color space SRGB only - 300D - sRGB or Adobe RGB
D60 - adjustment of contrast, sharpness etc.. 3 steps - 300D - 5 steps
D60 - slow autofocus 300D - approximatly double the speed of the D60
D60 - poor low light AF performance - 300D - much improved and faster AF performance
D60 - 3 in-line AF points - 300D - 7 AF points - cross style
D60 - viewfinder coverage 95% - 300D 95%
D60 - shutter release lag time 240ms - 300D - 128ms
D60 - partial metering size 9.5% - 300D - 9%
D60 - evaluative metering zones - 35 - 300D - 35
D60 - ISO range 100-1000 - 300D - ISO range 100 - 1600
D60 - no white balance bracketing - 300D -white balance braketing
D60 - no internal wireless receiver - 300D - included internal wireless receiver
D60 - LCD = 114,000 pixels 2 brightness levels - 300D 118,000 pixels and 5 brightness levels
D60 - No DIGIC processing chip - 300D - DIGIC chip
D60 - no support for DirectPrint or PictBridge - 300D - support for both of these standards
D60 - no orientation sensor - 300D - included orientation sensor

Some of these items may be trivial to some of you but important to other - the reason that I took the time to list them is that people assume too many things when comparing the D60 to the 300D. The 300D may be inexpensive and made from plastic - but as you can see from the stats above - it bests the D60 in MANY important ways. Don't discount the 300D - especially with the inclusion of one of the hacked firmwares - you have a formidable camera on your hands and one that I would choose most days OVER the D60.

[chris clements]

The 300D is NOT a downgrade from the D60 in many ways Chris - I'm not sure what you are basing that comment on. Black color and the rear accessory wheel alone do not a better camera make! Let's see how the D60 and the 300D compare in important areas:

D60 - Plastic shell 300D - Plastic shell
D60 - No EF-S 300D - EF-S Compatible
Same sensor size - Same cropping factor (1.6)
D60 - Older EXIF standard - 300D - new EXIF 2.2
D60 - Color space SRGB only - 300D - sRGB or Adobe RGB
D60 - adjustment of contrast, sharpness etc.. 3 steps - 300D - 5 steps
D60 - slow autofocus 300D - approximatly double the speed of the D60
D60 - poor low light AF performance - 300D - much improved and faster AF performance
D60 - 3 in-line AF points - 300D - 7 AF points - cross style
D60 - viewfinder coverage 95% - 300D 95%
D60 - shutter release lag time 240ms - 300D - 128ms
D60 - partial metering size 9.5% - 300D - 9%
D60 - evaluative metering zones - 35 - 300D - 35
D60 - ISO range 100-1000 - 300D - ISO range 100 - 1600
D60 - no white balance bracketing - 300D -white balance braketing
D60 - no internal wireless receiver - 300D - included internal wireless receiver
D60 - LCD = 114,000 pixels 2 brightness levels - 300D 118,000 pixels and 5 brightness levels
D60 - No DIGIC processing chip - 300D - DIGIC chip
D60 - no support for DirectPrint or PictBridge - 300D - support for both of these standards
D60 - no orientation sensor - 300D - included orientation sensor

Some of these items may be trivial to some of you but important to other - the reason that I took the time to list them is that people assume too many things when comparing the D60 to the 300D. The 300D may be inexpensive and made from plastic - but as you can see from the stats above - it bests the D60 in MANY important ways. Don't discount the 300D - especially with the inclusion of one of the hacked firmwares - you have a formidable camera on your hands and one that I would choose most days OVER the D60.


1. I didn't say the D60 was better (though that case can be fairly made). I simply said the others didn't outperform it enough to warrant changing. I stick to that.

2. Whether I agree with your comparative assessments (and I DON'T: to call both of them 'plastic' is absolutely libellous of the D60 build) or not, none of the differences are substantial enough to tempt a D60 owner to change.

3 I am happy to defend the word 'downgrade'. and Canon will back me in sentiment, even if they wouldn''t use the actual word. Otherwise, why have they simultaneously offered an entry range (300/350) and a prosumer range (D60/10D/20D) ?
If you're really saying "newest is best", then I demand you hand in your photographer's badge.

4. I can't see why you've mentioned body colour: the 300 is available in black.
Perhaps a bored photographer should paint his camera pink & green? ...or perhaps he could go out and take pictures with the very good camera he already owns.

Which brings us back to my real point - I say again that I cannot accept any linkage between better pictures and a newer camera, nor can I understand 'growing tired' in this context.

[Curtis N]

I've seen so many people flaming the "plastic" construction of the 300D, though no one has explained how this could possibly affect picture quality, ease of use, or any other relevant factor in camera choice. People who own the 300D and contemplate upgrading will mention features, speed and sometimes pixel count, but they never complain about the plastic.

Let's get real here. There are a lot of different kinds of "plastic." Many of them outperform metal alloys in a multitude of applications. It's used in football helmets, bulletproof glass, and thousands of other products where strength and durability are crucial.

If "plastic" is a disadvantage, tell me why.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Going from a D60 to a 300D is NOT an upgrade... this would be more "paralell" than anything.. to gain some features you would lose others. I would NOT recomend this path from a D60 under any circumstances as it is not an "upgrade" but a "swap"

Going from a D60 to a 10D would be a small upgrade.....

I would consider going from a D60 to either a 20D (preferable) to perhaps the 350D/XT

The 20D would be obviously the most significant upgrade.

However the 350D/XT incorporates many of the features that it's big brother has.. that both the D60 and the 300D and even 10D lack.

[Jon]

I got the 20D in addition to my D60. Cuts down on lens swaps. I wanted the 20D because it starts up faster, has a better buffer, has the higher ISO at lower noise, and has safety shift in Tv and Av. The extra resolution was nice, but not essential. I now generally use the longer lenses on the 20D and the wider on the D60 as I'm more likely to need to crop in tight on a tele shot and the extra resolution will give the 20D an edge there.

[bauerman]

I NEVER said that going to a 300D was an UPGRADE - I was simple taking exception to someone saying that a D60 to a 300D is a DOWNGRADE - that I do not and will not believe......to many items are superior on the 300D for that to be the case.

Chris - I'm waiting for your "defense" of the downgrade comment - based on features like I displayed in my post - you only mentioned color and plastic - how about performance? In MANY areas of performance the 300D would and does easily outperform the D60.

I also never said newer cameras meant better pictures - newer cameras usually do offer performance improvements though - and that is easily seen in comparing the D60 to the 300D.

[chris clements]

Bauerman

Of course time brings improvements, principally in ISO performance & focussing.
But, to me your comparisons aren't compelling enough to support 'changing' (can we use that neutral word?) from a D60 to a 300/350. What self-respecting DSLR user would be swayed by pictbridge, for heaven's sake!

We were asked by an existing D60 owner which out of the 300, 350 or 20D was the most appropriate replacement.
My answer remains:-
(a) why change at all*
(b) but if you're dead set on it, then it has to be a 20D (at the right price).

Curtis

I have no problem at all with plastic, and I of course agree it has no bearing on the final output, the picture.
That's my key point:- if you've already got a very capable DSLR (which I hope we can all agree the D60 still is) then changing to any of the 3 very capable alternatives shouldn't be at the forefront of anyone's thoughts.
I was commenting on Bauerman's bald statement "D60- plastic shell 300 - plastic shell" . This just doesn't do justice to the substantial build/quality/whatever of the D60 against the 300.

* What I've been trying to avoid saying all along is that, IMHO, 'bored' and 'growing tired' are precious close to male jewelry and boys toys comments rather than reflections on shortcomings/limitations of the current camera.

[J Rabin]

One thing no poster has mentioned in defense of the D60. Because it has larger photo sites than the newer higher megapixel models, the D60 has been always justly and highly regarded for its smooth shadow detail rendering. I have a colleague with a D60. In some conditions the images have a more film-like look than my 20D.

The D60's weakness always was the focus system; slower focusing in lower light.

The Digital Rebel series viewfinders are too small IMO. Once you give up FF 35mm film camera and adjust to D60/10D/20D, the Rebel viewfinders are ANOTHER STEP down in VF quality. Makes composition tougher.

If you're doing sports photography, in low light, for money, get a 20D or 1DMkII upgrade. If you're not, stick with what you have for one more "generation" of Canon digital.

Up to ISO 400 the D60 makes some fabulous photos, in the right hands, equal to any pro dSLR camera.

J

[bauerman]

Chris - if I had a D60 currently - I would probably spend the money on better lenses rather than a new body.......I agree. I would also agree with your 'jewelry' comment..........people upgrade MANY times not ou of need - but out of wanting new............

[Andy_T]

Not much new to add here, just some points ...

... some users scorn 'plastic', others praise it. Be advised that this is a highly personal decision. When the 300D (DRebel) was introduced, I went to a camera shop and tried it out ... as I was dead set on getting it as next step from my G2. The paper specs compared to the 10D spoke a clear language.

When I had it in my hand, however, the SILVER plastic just did not feel right to me ... I even thought at that time that the plastic on my G2 was nicer :lol:
So although I knew that with the hack I would get most of the functionality of the 10D, just the different feel was important *for me* to steer me towards the 500$ more expensive 10D (although I well knew that these 500$ would be a big part of a 70-200/4.0L to get with the difference). Still, for personal reasons, I got neither and went with a 20D instead ... a very hard wait, but maybe worth it :wink:

When I looked at the BLACK DRebel for the first time in shopwindows, I was not so sure any longer ... but there was no need for me to really take it in my hand, because I had my 20D by then.

I haven't held the 350D, but I would you to go to a camera shop and to try out all the cameras in direct comparison with your D60. If your preferences are similar to mine, then you will most likely go with the 20D.

Another sidenote ... there is a lot of talk recently as to a new model (5D, 30D, whatever) being released by the end of the year ... maybe something to wait for.

Best regards,
Andy

[griff2]

FWIW, I was going to recommend the D60 'till I saw that it was only capable of sRGB. Comparatively speaking, Adobe 1998 RGB is a big step forward in image quality (chrominace wise) compared to sRGB so I would have to go with the 300D.

[Bald Eagle]

For what its worth, I have the D60 and love it. My wife has the 300D, and she loves it. Since I have the great fortune of having easy access to both, I can tell, you that, to me, the D60 has a better "feel" to it. The controls are easier to access and the photos we have taken are excellent in both cameras. I wouldnt go from a D60 to a 300D as an upgrade, only, because i have had a chance to work with both of them extensively. Now, if look at the 20D, i would agree. That would be a nice upgrade. As far as the Focus issue, I have always done better with the manual focus on either camera.

[CyberDyneSystems]

FWIW, I was willing to back the D60 'till I saw that it was only capable of sRGB. Comparatively speaking, Adobe 1998 RGB is a big step forward in image quality (chrominace wise) compared to sRGB so I would have to go with the 300D.

This only matters if you are shooting jpeg...
If you shoot RAW you can convert your RAW images to whatever colorspace your converter supports.

[CyberDyneSystems]

FYI,..

I upgraded traded my 10D in for a 20D.. not so much for the extra two MP.. but for all the speed improvements.. including AF.. but also buffer and FPS. My type of shooting involves high speeds most of the time. I am now also shooting a D60 for Infra Red shooting where timing/speed is not imortant to me at all. For this the D60 is more than adequate.. it is in fact great :)

[griff2]

CyberDyneSystems wrote: This only matters if you are shooting jpeg... If you shoot RAW you can convert your RAW images to whatever colorspace your converter supports.

Of course. Note to oneself: don't log on after 5 tinnies.:mrgreen:

[griff2]

If you shoot RAW you can convert your RAW images to whatever colorspace your converter supports.
Thinking about it, you have to assuming the D60 sensor has a gamut which accomodates the Adobe 1998 colour space; obviously the 300D sensor does, hence the in-camera option.

Any colour space is a subset of gamut, and if the gamut is smaller than the space your trying to assign, then you won't be assigning anything, you'll just stay with the gamut your camera has.

[Croasdail]

Since the 10D and D60 are kissing counsin.... and haveing just added a 20D to my bag with a 10D.... I would say be patient a little longer and see what the next generation has to offer. Maybe on a spec sheet there is a lot of difference... but in day to day use.... not so much. Unless you really really need on of the enhancements... skip it. I should have.

[cc10d]

I have never been sorry I went to the 20D,,the 10D has a new home.

[mdallie]

FWIW, I was going to recommend the D60 'till I saw that it was only capable of sRGB. Comparatively speaking, Adobe 1998 RGB is a big step forward in image quality (chrominace wise) compared to sRGB so I would have to go with the 300D.

It depends. I use a professional lab for wedding pictures and have gone through the details of the colorspace thing. Most labs print sRGB. That being the case, you are better off to shoot sRGB than to shoot Adobe RGB and convert.

If you print inkjet, then Adobe RGB is preferred.

With my D60, 90% of my stuff was either viewed only on the computer, and the 10% I printed was fabulous.

[griff2]

I've an Adobe 1998 RGB capable printer and with the right paper, and photo cartridges, there's no comparison. If you're going to pay a small fortune for a quality body and lenses, then it makes sense to utilise them to get the very best out of them, doesn't it?

[Angel_LCD]

Buying a 10D or a 300D would not be any upgrade in my opinion. Take a look at the side by side info : dpreview (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_eosd60%2Ccanon_eos10d%2Ccanon_eos300 d&show=all). And that the D60 is made of plastic is bull. The D60 has a completely metal chassis with a plastic outer skin. While the 300D is plastic. As it dpreview writes :
The EOS 300D's plastic body is just one of the elements used to reduce the cost of the camera, others include the use of a pentamirror in the viewfinder instead of a pentaprism, a reduction of features (although I feel that much of this is simply firmware crippling) and a shifting of manufacturing from Japan to Taiwan. Additionally Canon say that they have altered the production process of the CMOS sensor to reduce costs.

I own a D60 myself and if I'm going to get something new it's going to be the EOS 1Dmk2 :) I'm very happy with my D60 though.

I would have used my money on lenses instead ;)

[MrChad]

The only difference I find between the D60 (which I used for some time in a lab setting at work, I also used a D30) and the Drebel 300D, is the viewfinder. Pentamirror vs. Prism, the 3 focus points never bothered me, infact I'd love a camera with only 3 if it was Elan or Eos 3 fast....

Speed they appear about the same to me, build the same, the D60 is just a better veiwfinder IMO. But I'll take a 300D over a D30 anyday. I've always used a grip too.

However, if I had a D60 I would keep using it until they make a DSLR with the speed of the Elan 7 or Eos 3, until that day you might as well just save up cash. Sigma and the other 3rd parties have enough glass in the market that I don't see EF-S mount as a plus or minus. There is enough good work around 3rd party APS-C glass on the market to make that a moot point.

The only reason I have a Drebel and not a used D60 was price, the rebates last x-mas made it too easy to not buy a new Drebel. And since none of the DSLR's were over the top for me the cheapest one was good enough for me until the perfect one comes along.

[Andy_T]

However, if I had a D60 I would keep using it until they make a DSLR with the speed of the Elan 7 or Eos 3, until that day you might as well just save up cash.

Well, I haven't used the Elan 7 or Eos 3 so far, so I could be totally wrong, but I suspect the 20D WITH A GOOD LENS might be what you are looking for...

Best regards,
Andy

[cfcRebel]

To the original poster: i think if u could, you should wait. Maybe something new will come out later this year(it's already June) before the holiday season or early next year that might be worth the upgrade. Just my 0.02.

[neil_r]

Lets cut to the chase, I went from a D60 to a 1DMkII and I am a very happy bunny. Don't eat for a year and do the same ;)

N

[ScottE]

Lets cut to the chase, I went from a D60 to a 1DMkII and I am a very happy bunny. Don't eat for a year and do the same ;)
Dear bunny,

What makes you think you would be any less happy if you had gone for a 350D or 20D? You could have your fun and eat your lettuce too.

Scott