Wedding gear recommendations

[midnight_rider]

Last year I had every intention of trying out some wedding shots and I never really got around to it. One reason was that I felt like I still had a lot to learn. I have spent a lot of time reading on here ( thanks Tim) and I still have a couple of questions.

Lighting during the wedding.
I can see strobing the dinning hall or even the foyer but how do you light the sanctuary. Here I have about a 50/50 mix of churches that have white ceilings but then there are the others which are the main ones I am asking about. When you can not bounce a flash what do you use?

Do you ever get negative responses about using flash during a wedding?

Camera gear.
I currently have a 40D, 10-20mm, 30mm 1.4 and 85mm, 1.8. For Light I have 1 AB 400 with a large softbox and a brolly box, 2-13' air cushioned stands and a backlight stand and a 430ex.

I am thinking about adding the following for light.
1-580ex
1-ab800
1- beauty dish

For camera gear I was thinking about adding
5D2, 40D or 7D
135mm f/2
50mm 1.4


Any help, suggestions or links are always very welcome

[Peacefield]

During church ceremonies, you don't want to use flash. Most don't permit it and it's obnoxious anyway. The 5D2 can be taken up to ISO3200 without more noise than can easily be cleaned up with software. Couple that with your 1.4 lens and you should be able to handle even the darkest churches. I had a shoot on Friday that was darker than anything I'd ever seen but 1.4 and 3200 made acceptable shutterspeeds achievable. You could be challenged hand holdling the 135 unless the church is very bright. I like the 35 1.4 on my 5d2 and the 85 1.2 on my 50D which essentially turns it into a very fast 135. I'm finding the new 100 macro w/IS to be a very nice and less expensive alternative to the 85.

[form]

I'm not really sure how the 100 f/2.8 IS could be a substitute for the 85L, considering the 85L quadruples your light and the 100 f/2.8 IS has no advantage over the 70-200 f/2.8 IS for shutter speed in a ceremony (i.e. useless during processional without flash). What are you using it for instead of the 85L?

I use the 35L and 85L for processionals with ambient light. Having ISO6400 during those times would be nice.

A beauty dish would only be useful for posed photos or controlled, planned situations. Even assuming that you were allowed to use it during the ceremony, I don't think it would have any practical use at that time.

5D2 would be genuinely useful, again for ISO6400.

The only light source I would consider a possibility for most church ceremonies is a 580EX. There are a few who allow flash without restriction, and then you might use the B400/etc., but those are not common from my experience (though it varies widely by location).

I never use the 135L for church ceremonies; it only gets used in good lighting. I use the 70-200 f/2.8 IS for still/non moving subjects and candids during church ceremonies, and 35L and 85L for processionals and everything else except an ultra-wide shot.

50 f/1.4 is a pretty good lens, but I don't think I would trust it for ceremonies just yet.

[midnight_rider]

During church ceremonies, you don't want to use flash. Most don't permit it and it's obnoxious anyway. The 5D2 can be taken up to ISO3200 without more noise than can easily be cleaned up with software. Couple that with your 1.4 lens and you should be able to handle even the darkest churches. I had a shoot on Friday that was darker than anything I'd ever seen but 1.4 and 3200 made acceptable shutterspeeds achievable. You could be challenged hand holdling the 135 unless the church is very bright. I like the 35 1.4 on my 5d2 and the 85 1.2 on my 50D which essentially turns it into a very fast 135. I'm finding the new 100 macro w/IS to be a very nice and less expensive alternative to the 85.

Thanks for the advice. I am thinking about using the 85 on the 40D instead of the 135mm.

Although I would love to get the new macro L, I have never known macro lenses to be very fast at focusing, especially when the light gets low. the 85 1.8 or the 135 2 are both very fast focusing and do not need a limit switch

I'm not really sure how the 100 f/2.8 IS could be a substitute for the 85L, considering the 85L quadruples your light and the 100 f/2.8 IS has no advantage over the 70-200 f/2.8 IS for shutter speed in a ceremony (i.e. useless during processional without flash). What are you using it for instead of the 85L?

I use the 35L and 85L for processionals with ambient light. Having ISO6400 during those times would be nice.


A beauty dish would only be useful for posed photos or controlled, planned situations. Even assuming that you were allowed to use it during the ceremony, I don't think it would have any practical use at that time.

5D2 would be genuinely useful, again for ISO6400.

The only light source I would consider a possibility for most church ceremonies is a 580EX. There are a few who allow flash without restriction, and then you might use the B400/etc., but those are not common from my experience (though it varies widely by location).

I never use the 135L for church ceremonies; it only gets used in good lighting. I use the 70-200 f/2.8 IS for still/non moving subjects and candids during church ceremonies, and 35L and 85L for processionals and everything else except an ultra-wide shot.

50 f/1.4 is a pretty good lens, but I don't think I would trust it for ceremonies just yet.

I was thinking about the beauty disk for pre wedding shots. When I actually have time to pose the bride and groom ( or family members) the way I want for those couple of photos.
The High ISO options and low noise levels are what has the 5D2 in the list. If flash is generally not allowed during the wedding ( can not blame anyone for that) I could see 6400 coming in handy real quick.


Thanks,
Great shots on your site BTW

[Peacefield]

I'm not really sure how the 100 f/2.8 IS could be a substitute for the 85L, considering the 85L quadruples your light and the 100 f/2.8 IS has no advantage over the 70-200 f/2.8 IS for shutter speed in a ceremony (i.e. useless during processional without flash). What are you using it for instead of the 85L?

I tried the 100 L macro IS during a wedding this past week for the first time and was delighted with it. On a 5d2, arguably, you should be able to handhold it at 1/100 sec. The IS buys you at least two stops getting you to 1/25. At ISO3200 which is no concern on a 5d2, that's all I typically need. And now, I'm shooting at 2.8 for a little more DOF. When I use the 85, I try to keep aperature to 1.6 or above anyway.

I like using the 100 mostly during bridal prep since I already want the macro for ring or other detail shots. It's wonderfully sharp, focuses quickly, the IS does a nice job, and it's nice and light to work with. The ceremony I shot was crazy dark and I was going to NEED 1.2 so I didn't use it during the ceremony this time, but expect to going forward.

[midnight_rider]

I tried the 100 L macro IS during a wedding this past week for the first time and was delighted with it. On a 5d2, arguably, you should be able to handhold it at 1/100 sec. The IS buys you at least two stops getting you to 1/25. At ISO3200 which is no concern on a 5d2, that's all I typically need. And now, I'm shooting at 2.8 for a little more DOF. When I use the 85, I try to keep aperature to 1.6 or above anyway.

I like using the 100 mostly during bridal prep since I already want the macro for ring or other detail shots. It's wonderfully sharp, focuses quickly, the IS does a nice job, and it's nice and light to work with. The ceremony I shot was crazy dark and I was going to NEED 1.2 so I didn't use it during the ceremony this time, but expect to going forward.

I may try to get my hands on one of the new macro lenses. I would love to have a true macro.

You both ,mentioned using a 35 and an 85mm but did not mention if both of these are typically on a FF or Crop?

[Peacefield]

I may try to get my hands on one of the new macro lenses. I would love to have a true macro.

You both ,mentioned using a 35 and an 85mm but did not mention if both of these are typically on a FF or Crop?

I have a 5D2 and a 50D as my second body so these two lenses make a charming pair. Put either one on a crop body and I now add the approximate equivalent of a 50 and 135 (only now my 135 is 1.2 and not 2.0) So having a FF and crop really make this a versatile pair of lenses.

[tim]

Wedding FAQ (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=255604). It's a little dated but gives you the right idea. I see you don't have a good standard zoom, which is what many photographers use to take most of their images. I'd suggest you get a couple of speedlites and battery packs before you get another AB, unless you work in large venues. Reception lighting (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=646469).

[midnight_rider]

Thanks Tim, I am at this point leaning towards speedlites for portability. I am not much on zooms anymore. It is not that I do not like them I just prefer to use primes instead.

At this point I am still leaning towards the 5D2 and 135mm. However I never really argue much with experience. I can tell that I have 2 really good wedding photographers on here ( no offense Peacefield but you do not have any galleries posted so I can not say one way or the other) so let me ask this.
If you could only take 2 camera bodies and 2 lenses to a wedding what would you pick? ( this excludes the wide angle for group shots and such)
I like my 40D and I think it is a great camera however I know that once it hits 1600 ASA it is done. 3200 is not really usable.

I plan on being a second shooter for several months ( or more if needed) and during that time I know I can work out all the kinks gear wise. However I do not have enough play in the budget to get everything right off the bat so with 4 grand ($4,000) and my current gear listed what would you suggest?

[tim]

3200 is definitely usable on the 40D, so long as you don't want poster prints. I have 14" prints from ISO3200 images in albums. They're not perfect, but they're pretty good.

Two cameras and two lenses, that's a tough one. Probably two 1D4's, one with a 24-70 and one with a 70-200. I'd miss IS though, so maybe i'd have a 7D with a 17-55 instead. With only two lenses i'd miss my fast prime, a 35L on a 1D4 would be nice. Really I could work with many different combinations, or even my 7D and 30 F1.4, but it'd cause problems as I want wider and longer for the ceremony, longer for the reception, etc.

[picturecrazy]

When you can not bounce a flash what do you use?

Do you ever get negative responses about using flash during a wedding?


For indoor ceremonies, I generally don't use flash. Not because I think it's the best solution a lot of the time (the lighting is often boring and even) but I don't flash just out of respect for the moment. I have no problems flashing processionals and recessionals though, which is usually when you can use a bit a motion freezing flash. If needed (i.e. if f/1.4 ISO6400 still won't get me 1/100 shutter) then I'll set up a light stand high up illuminating the middle section of the aisle. That way it's easy to change the angle it's pointing so you can illuminate both the processional and recessional without actually moving the stand to another location.

http://www.nightanddayphoto.ca/slides/09/KaylaAaronW/images/130947_1412.jpg

For outdoor ceremonies, I'll often set up a flash to cross light with the sun. The summer mid afternoon sun leaves wickedly unattractive shadows, especially if the sun is to the bride or groom's back. The dynamic range is also too high to handle so you can only see the face that it's in the sun, and not the face that's in shadow, without hammering it hard with adjustment brushes, fill light, etc... in post... all of which decrease image quality. The outdoors are so bright anyhow that high power flashes are barely noticed.

http://www.nightanddayphoto.ca/slides/09/KathrynAndrewW/images/123819_5662.jpg


Camera gear.
I currently have a 40D, 10-20mm, 30mm 1.4 and 85mm, 1.8. For Light I have 1 AB 400 with a large softbox and a brolly box, 2-13' air cushioned stands and a backlight stand and a 430ex.

I am thinking about adding the following for light.
1-580ex
1-ab800
1- beauty dish

For camera gear I was thinking about adding
5D2, 40D or 7D
135mm f/2
50mm 1.4


Any help, suggestions or links are always very welcome

I would add a 40D. It's an awesome camera. It has gotten me some of my favourite photos of all time, despite the fact that I also shoot with a D700, 1D3, and 1Ds3. It's also the camera that I use the most out of that lot. The two 1-series bodies I have are mainly for other types of photos I shoot, so I just use them on my weddings too.

Probably my fav 40D shot to date:
http://www.nightanddayphoto.ca/misc/forumpics/wff/LyndseyJasonW/155343_1615.jpg


I was thinking about the beauty disk for pre wedding shots. When I actually have time to pose the bride and groom ( or family members) the way I want for those couple of photos.


I use a beauty dish. I just find it a lot easier to manage than an umbrella. I use it for everything from family formals, bride and groom, and bridal party like this one...

http://www.nightanddayphoto.ca/blog/09/AlissaBryceW/153128_3039.jpg


The High ISO options and low noise levels are what has the 5D2 in the list. If flash is generally not allowed during the wedding ( can not blame anyone for that) I could see 6400 coming in handy real quick.


Thanks,
Great shots on your site BTW

With the prices of used 1D3 units where they're at, I would pick up a used 1D3 over a 5D2 ANY DAY. It's about 500 times the camera at less of a price. And it has a great 6400 if you know how to expose properly.

Thanks Tim, I am at this point leaning towards speedlites for portability. I am not much on zooms anymore. It is not that I do not like them I just prefer to use primes instead.


Don't ignore zooms just because you are 'not much on zooms anymore'. The utility of zooms cannot be ignored. I have a 135 F/2 and it never gets used during the ceremony because it's often difficult to get a 1/125 shutter speed. But take the 70-200 IS, and you can take shots at 1/25 at 200mm (or 1/15 at 135mm). I just find it far more useful. It's a lens I can use at 100% of the ceremonies I shoot. The 135 F/2 is something I can fully use at like 10% of INDOOR ceremonies I shoot. Just because it's a zoom doesn't mean it's inferior. It's just a different tool at your disposal. Would a mechanic never use a wrench because he's got a ratchet?


At this point I am still leaning towards the 5D2 and 135mm. However I never really argue much with experience. I can tell that I have 2 really good wedding photographers on here ( no offense Peacefield but you do not have any galleries posted so I can not say one way or the other) so let me ask this.
If you could only take 2 camera bodies and 2 lenses to a wedding what would you pick? ( this excludes the wide angle for group shots and such)
I like my 40D and I think it is a great camera however I know that once it hits 1600 ASA it is done. 3200 is not really usable.


two cameras and two lenses? Two 40D, 17-55 and 70-200 2.8 IS.


I plan on being a second shooter for several months ( or more if needed) and during that time I know I can work out all the kinks gear wise. However I do not have enough play in the budget to get everything right off the bat so with 4 grand and my current gear listed what would you suggest?

haha, pretty much what I've already said. Another 40D, 17-55, 70-200 2.8 IS, and 580EX. You'll be well equipped for just about anything.

[Peacefield]

Re: two cameras and two lenses, as I say so often, the answer is depends.

As expressed, I like the flexiblity of having one ff and one 1.6. If I'm facing dark shooting conditions for the ceremony, I'd put the 35 1.4 on the 5D2 and the 100 Macro 2.8 IS on the 50D. I might like to have the 85 1.2 instead of the 100 for a dark ceremony, but it focuses too slowly to trust it for the reception or other elements of the day. If I'm not facing very dark situations, 24-70 2.8 on my 5D2 and probably still the 100 macro on the 50D.

Lloyd, what beauty dish do you use? Also, my bag easily accepts small umbrellas which is what I work with. How do you manage portability with beauty dishes?

[RT McAllister]

I would really suggest that you decide on your sensor format first and foremost. (Full frame or crop).

To me, if you really want to do this right, AND... you're starting from scratch, AND... you've got the budget, then... the 5D2 would be my choice. It's a whole different world regarding ISO capabilities and choice of glass.

I shoot with 50D's and they're not very forgiving with noise levels shooting above 1600 ISO. And god help you if you underexpose and need to clean things up in post.

[midnight_rider]

3200 is definitely usable on the 40D, so long as you don't want poster prints. I have 14" prints from ISO3200 images in albums. They're not perfect, but they're pretty good.

Two cameras and two lenses, that's a tough one. Probably two 1D4's, one with a 24-70 and one with a 70-200. I'd miss IS though, so maybe i'd have a 7D with a 17-55 instead. With only two lenses i'd miss my fast prime, a 35L on a 1D4 would be nice. Really I could work with many different combinations, or even my 7D and 30 F1.4, but it'd cause problems as I want wider and longer for the ceremony, longer for the reception, etc.

Tell me where to get 2 1D4s, a 24-70 and a 70-200 for 4 grand and I will be there:D

[tim]

Tell me where to get 2 1D4s, a 24-70 and a 70-200 for 4 grand and I will be there:D

You didn't put a budget limitation on what you asked for!

[midnight_rider]

@ picturecrazy

thanks for the informative write up.
I have had the 24-70 and the 70-200 before. I really liked the brick but I sold it right before I decided to give Nikon a try. I just always get a zoom and I never zoom with it. I had the 24-70 and it stayed on 24. I had the 70-200 and it stayed on 200 Hince the primes. I may throw a tamron 28-75 in the bag just in case I feel like I can not work the primes at first and if I use it then I may look into the 2 above mentioned lenses

I really like my 40D and a second one would not hurt my feelings at all. I have put some thought into the 1D3. It is not off the short list yet. I know that I would like to get a body with a different crop factor ( or none at all) to really utilize the reach and wideness of my lenses. Just not sure which one yet.
I have only shot one wedding and I did it with a 1D2 and an 85mm. It was a family event but I really liked the 85
I also had a 40D with the 10-20mm on it which was nice, Although it just stays at 10mm

When I went to Nikon I had the D700. It is a great camera. I just kept reaching for buttons that were not there:rolleyes:

[midnight_rider]

You didn't put a budget limitation on what you asked for!


Last line in post 9, I will change it to all numbers since words may be easily skipped over.

[midnight_rider]

Re: two cameras and two lenses, as I say so often, the answer is depends.

As expressed, I like the flexiblity of having one ff and one 1.6. If I'm facing dark shooting conditions for the ceremony, I'd put the 35 1.4 on the 5D2 and the 100 Macro 2.8 IS on the 50D. I might like to have the 85 1.2 instead of the 100 for a dark ceremony, but it focuses too slowly to trust it for the reception or other elements of the day. If I'm not facing very dark situations, 24-70 2.8 on my 5D2 and probably still the 100 macro on the 50D.

Lloyd, what beauty dish do you use? Also, my bag easily accepts small umbrellas which is what I work with. How do you manage portability with beauty dishes?

That is certainly food for thought and I am really leaning towards the FF/ Crop combo.
Held a 100mm IS today and I have to say the AF speed was really surprising for a macro lens. I have been debating on it because having a macro for the ring shots and all would be very nice.

I would really suggest that you decide on your sensor format first and foremost. (Full frame or crop).

To me, if you really want to do this right, AND... you're starting from scratch, AND... you've got the budget, then... the 5D2 would be my choice. It's a whole different world regarding ISO capabilities and choice of glass.

I shoot with 50D's and they're not very forgiving with noise levels shooting above 1600 ISO. And god help you if you underexpose and need to clean things up in post.


The 40D and 50D are not very forgiving at all for high ISO.
I am not sure what format just yet but it will not be 2- 1.6 crop cameras. I am either adding 1.3x or FF to the mix.
I know I can still use the 10-20mm on a 1D but I think it is pointless on a 5D. I am not sure about the 30mm lens though. It may not work on either

[tim]

Last line in post 9, I will change it to all numbers since words may be easily skipped over.

You're assuming I was paying attention, which clearly I wasn't ;)

[PMCphotography]

To me, if you really want to do this right, AND... you're starting from scratch, AND... you've got the budget, then... the 5D2 would be my choice. It's a whole different world regarding ISO capabilities and choice of glass.

I shoot with 50D's and they're not very forgiving with noise levels shooting above 1600 ISO. And god help you if you underexpose and need to clean things up in post.

I think 40d's clean up pretty well:

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss61/pmcphotography/StaceyAndMaxWedding-1512-2-Edit.jpg

This picture was taken at ISO 3200 and pushed (underexposed) by 1 1/3 stops, then ran through Noise ninja and faded 50%.

Is it a bit soft? Yeah, a bit. But it also captures a great moment that I think Flash would have ruined.

[RT McAllister]

I think 40d's clean up pretty well:I'm not a pixel peeper by any means but I actually think a 40D can take a better pic than the 50D under these same high ISO conditions. Too many tiny pixels with the 50 under the same footprint and the grain seems more pronounced. Of course it does better with plenty of light.

And I don't mind being in a 3200 ISO situation ever once in a while if I need the shot - just as long as I'm not stuck there. I used somebody's 5D a while back and my 50D's have never been the same since.

[Peacefield]

I'm not a pixel peeper by any means but I actually think a 40D can take a better pic than the 50D under these same high ISO conditions.

That's been debated relentelessly over in the camera forum, with the answer coming down as the 40D being ever so slightly better. But you do have to be in peeping mode to see it. In my view, I'm very comfortable with the 5D2 at 3200. I'm equally comfortable with the 50D at 1600. I won't hesitate to push the 50D to 3200 but know it will need a little more cleaning up in processing.

[midnight_rider]

I think I decided to add a 5D mark 2 and a 24-70mm to my set for weddings.
That would let me shoot with the 85mm on a 40D

Any thoughts?

[tim]

5DII and 24-70 is probably the most common wedding photographer combo in the world.

[bnlearle]

Thanks Tim, I am at this point leaning towards speedlites for portability. I am not much on zooms anymore. It is not that I do not like them I just prefer to use primes instead.

At this point I am still leaning towards the 5D2 and 135mm. However I never really argue much with experience. I can tell that I have 2 really good wedding photographers on here ( no offense Peacefield but you do not have any galleries posted so I can not say one way or the other) so let me ask this.
If you could only take 2 camera bodies and 2 lenses to a wedding what would you pick? ( this excludes the wide angle for group shots and such)
I like my 40D and I think it is a great camera however I know that once it hits 1600 ASA it is done. 3200 is not really usable.

I plan on being a second shooter for several months ( or more if needed) and during that time I know I can work out all the kinks gear wise. However I do not have enough play in the budget to get everything right off the bat so with 4 grand ($4,000) and my current gear listed what would you suggest?
I hated using even 1600 on my old 40D's.

If ISO is a significant concern of yours (and I think it is since you notice it on the 40D), the 5DII is where it's at.

Two cameras/two lenses...

Two 5DMKII's, 50L, 135L. I, like you, only used my 70-200 at 200mm -- so there was no practicality in keeping my 70-200. It sits in my room and I only use it for video (IS for video is pretty dang awesome). Plus, I never run into shutter speed problems with the 135 on the 5DII. I have no problem with ISO4000 and that at 1/50th at f/2 has worked for me almost anywhere. So since I personally think 135 at f/2 looks significantly better than 200 at f/2.8, then I obviously see more value in the 135. Not to mention it's WAY cheaper than the 70-200 IS.

I think the prime/FF question comes down to two things. There is obviously no right answer as there are great photographers who shoot primes/FF and great photographers who shoot zooms/cropped body. But if DOF and ISO is extremely important to you, FF/prime combo is definitely where it's at. If you feel more secure shooting with the ability to zoom and feel that cropped bodies are fine for ISO, then zooms/cropped is where it's at. Totally depends on how you feel about ISO/DOF, imo.

Bobby