Advice for camera purchase & general questions

[Jim G]

Hey all. I came across this forum whilst trolling the 'net for information regarding photography in general and it looked pretty active and helpful :)

After going from film photography with a basic Olympus to digital with a Mju 400 (and underwater casing.. that's pretty fun) to fiddling with Dad's Nikon Coolpix 5700 over the past few years... well, I fell in love with photography with the Olympus and it just went from there.

Basically, my 21st is coming up and I've scrimped and saved a bit, have a nice tax return coming through and my parents are giving me money towards a camera rather than having a big 21st party (sad, isn't it? :p) so after looking around for the last 6 months and alot of daydreaming and being impatient I've come up with the following package:

Canon 20D
EF-S 17-85 IS USM
Battery grip
Spare battery
1G Sandisk Extreme III card
Lens hood


That's the basics... I was thinking of getting the 420EX flash unit as well if my budget will stretch that far. I do alot of everything as far as photography goes and I thought the 17-85 looked to be a good all-round lens - any advice regarding this? Are there any other alternative lenses of a similar specification?

Also.. What precisely is the difference between an EF and an EF-S lens as far as practical photography results go?

That was kind of a bit long-winded..

Thanks;

Jim

[tfiorda]

If you're going for the 20D, I'd pop for the 580EX. It will take advantage of the E-TTL II technology and of course it WILL take a bit of getting used to as far as exposure/features are concerned.

I'd also go for a total of 3 extra batteries. I have 10D/BG-ED and the extra batteries that I always have with me. That way, I'll never run out of power out and about. And I have had to change. I get anywhere from 400-600 shots/charge depending on flash(on camera vs hotshoe), chimping time, and other variables.

EF vs EF-S - Well, the EF-S are designed for the D-SLR. It actually extends further in to the body to give you the focal length listed on the lens. Don't EVER use a EF-S lens on a standard body or anything below the 20D. It will slap the mirror. Unless of course you want to 'modify' it to fit.

Tony...

[Longwatcher]

That looks like a good starter setup.

In order I would get after that:
- a second 1GB CF card (or 2GB)
- a flash 580EX would be best, but a 420EX would be good if cost is a concern.
- a spare set of batteries
- a camera bag with room to grow
- more lenses (get a telephoto, then a 50/1.8 prime as these will provide the most utility to you)
- Anything else that you want after that point.

Do them as you can afford to get them.

Just my opinion,

[weemannie]

Hi Jim,

EF-S lenses are only suitable for the 300D, 350D and 20D at present.

That does look like a good start, although I agree with Longwatcher, that you should add another CF card when you can afford it.

As far as the 17-85 is concerned, I've read mixed reports on it. Never used it myself, so can't comment personally. Perhaps you may like to look on PBase.com and check some out there :)

As far as the flashgun is concerned, I think that would depend entirely on what you're shooting. Bearing in mind that there's a built-in flash (albeit low powered), you may want to consider the extra CF card and a bag instead.

Good luck with your purchase, have a great 21st and enjoy your new camera. We look forward to seelng some of your pictures. :)

[glangston]

What made you put the battery grip on the list?

I still don't have one and don't forsee getting one as the lithiums (3) last a long time.

Guess what I'm saying is that I'd use the $200 towards a 50mm 1.4 or the 580 flash.

[condyk]

Good choices and you've done your research. A few ideas tho' ...

Glangston, the grip can enhance handling. esp. with larger lenses. I find this important rather than the extra battery element.

I might consider 2x 500mb cards rather than a single 1gb for flexibility and redundancy ... though 2 x 1gb might be even better if you're away from your larger storage (computer!) for long or take loads and loads of shots quickly.

Not sure of the value of IS at shorter focal lengths over good handholding. I might get two decent, faster non IS lenses instead myself, though the range is nice on the IS and saves you having to change. 3rd party brands make some well priced and high quality wides and my own recommendations for standard zooms are the Tamron 28-75 and Sigma 24-70, both f2.8.

[Music to my eyes]

Hey Jim,

Nice choice for starting out!
EF-S lenses are made especially for the newer digital SLRs that have a 1.6x field of view - 350D, 300D,20D. They are smaller, and being smaller are cheaper to make (less big glass). They can't be used on non 1.6x FOV cameras. But all 'EF' lenses work on all EOS bodies.
I've read mostly positive stuff about the 17-85 EF-S lens. I think some have reported some chromatic aberration (like a purple fringing on highlight(?) areas. Another good lens for a general lens is the 28-135 IS, but you don't get as much wide angle on a 20D........but will be compatible with other eos cameras if you ever upgrade.
The 420 ex flash is a really good unit......go for it. If you need more later, buy the 580 ex as well, then you can use the two together wirelessly, with the 580 ex as the master, and the 420 as the slave.
I agree that another CF card will be a good idea.........
Will be a great kit for you to expand into.

[wolf]

EF vs EF-S - Well, the EF-S are designed for the D-SLR. It actually extends further in to the body to give you the focal length listed on the lens.

Actually the EFS lenses have the same "focal length crop factor" as the standard EF lenses do. Example: 18-55 EFS would be equivalent to 28- 88 when used on a 20D. The EFS lens produces a smaller image circle on the sensor than the EF lens. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[lostdoggy]

Your choice for camera is excellent. IMHO, skip the grip (its not working and from what I've read may not be available at least from reputable vendor) just get more batteries. Third party vendors like Sterlingtek.com has them for $12 each, I have two and they work find. Half the price and twice the capacity. I don't recommend the 17-85 IS lens either its not worth the money. Either get the standard kit lens or get the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 EX DG lens its a much better buy. I also recommend the 50f/1.8 it is fun lens to have and to learn with. Its around $70. If you need a flash and can't afford the 580EX then consider the Sigma EF500DG Super (see sigma4less.com) it has higher Guide Number and much more capable flash then the 420EX for $200.

[Jim G]

Many thanks for the advice given... I think the battery grip is going to come down to whether it feels that much better in the hand when shooting vertically compared to without it. It's been a little while since I had a fiddle with one attached. I hadn't really thought about swapping that for another lens.

Well.. I've been looking at the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 lens on the Internet and the price seems much the same as the 17-85 IS USM lens... Having no experience with either and little experienc with the practical differences between lenses of different apertures... is the faster lens going to make that much of a difference compared to the IS? I've heard some very good things about the sharpness of the 17-85, though I'm open to the idea of getting an alternative.

And, uh, this might seem like a silly question, but what might a 50mm f/1.8 lens be used for? it's very fast, but is the focal length really well suited to portraiture or anything specific like that?

Thanks again;

Jim

[lostdoggy]

The thrifty nifty fifty is a fun lens especially when you run into situation where flash is not an option or when you want to take a portrait and blurr the background (Bokeh) where the background is very busy. You will be hard press to find a lens this fast at that price. the 50f/1.4 goes for around $400.

Its up to you on the grip but know this and check it out for yourself. The grip has a bad flaw and their are alot of owners here that have problems with them. There was a thread that reported that they are not available. The issue has to do with the grip failing or losing it charge prematurely. If you want the grip you might want to wait until canon resolve the bugs.

[vkalia]

If you are going to shoot landscapes, etc., think of allocating atleast $200 on a good tripod and ballhead.

The vertical grip is very nice to have (all my SLRs have one), but with the 17-85 lens, it is not as essential as a good tripod.

As for flash - well, that depends on whether or not you use flash a lot or no. The 420EX is a good value, as is the Sigma ST500 Super... for most people, either of these is better than a 580EX.

Re. lenses - 2.8 is useful if you are doing a lot of low-light stuff or low DoF photography (eg, portraits). The Sigma 24-70 is supposed to be a very good lens indeed, but doesnt give you a true wideangle, once you take the crop factor into account. The 17-85 does (barely). Stick to the 17-85 if you are going to have just a single lens for a while. If you plan to get a wider angle lens later, then the 24-70 is a better choice.

Alternatively, get the el-cheapo 18-55 + the 24-70 (or Tamron 28-75).

Vandit

[I Simonius]

I pretty much agree with what everyone else has said
Skip the battery grip- it has problems
Don't get the flash unless you really need it, there is one on the camera anyway.
Put that money towards extra battery + extra CF cards. You'll be surprised how fast you fill up those cards especially if you shoot raw, (I use up two 1GB cards in a day EASY shooting RAW) and you'll be pissed if the one shot you want at the end of a long day is just after the battery or CF card run out. The CF card you can do something about, like delete a couple of duds but the battery....

If at all possible try out the lens before you actually buy it. Canon quality control isn't perfect and you might find either you need a dud replacing before you go, or you want to try different lenses.
Locally I can stick a lens on my camera in the shop and then go home to look at the results before buying.

[condyk]

Apologies for recommending the grip. It works beautifully with my 300D but the 20D version does seem problematic and there is an very useful thread here that you may have found already:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=70497

Of course, I still recommend getting one ... maybe not just yet tho' :lol: Unless you believe the following:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=80677

Be interested in seeing what you get. With the SIgma 24-70mm, if you're interested in it, remember to get the latest DG Macro. There are still loads of the previous version around which are DG but do NOT have the Macro designation. It scores only average. They are quite different lenses. In the UK the Canon IS is much more expensive that the Sigma :confused:

[DavidEB]

what lostdoggy said. consider also the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 which is optically superb, lightweight, and relatively cheap. A tripod is a good investment, plan on at least $200 US for maybe a bogen+head, and consider a cable release. UV filters for protecting all your lenses if you are a klutz like me. Also, instead of the scandisk extreme III get the ultra II, considerably cheaper and will meet your needs for a long long time.


welcome to the forum.