G10 vs G11 Build Quality -- OMG...

[Tallking]

Well, this afternoon, I stopped by the local BestBuy, mostly out of morbid curiosity. This was, however, the first time I've had the chance to carefully look over a G11. I was amazed, and NOT in a good way. Hey, you all can keep that articulatable screen if the cheapening of the camera is what it takes to get it. Times are tough, but I almost whipped out the credit card to buy a second G10 so I'll still have one if my primary blows up. I simply could not believe how cheap the G11 feels compared to the G10. OK, rant mode off -- am I over-reacting? I really did not like the new camera -- so much cheap plastic where there used to be metal. I LOVE the "machined from a block of metal" feeling of the G10, and that's totally missing from the G11. Am I missing something? ? ?

[tmwag]

OK, rant mode off -- am I over-reacting? I really did not like the new camera -- so much cheap plastic where there used to be metal. I LOVE the "machined from a block of metal" feeling of the G10, and that's totally missing from the G11. Am I missing something? ? ?

MAYbe...

Do you drop your G10 much..lol...being a former G9 owner the plastic build was immediately noticed. However once the drastically improved low light performance became obvious (and much better than your G10..ha), all heavy metal (alloy actually) concerns were put aside. The G11 is simply the best G- series camera to date!

[Chairman7w]

I actually thought the same thing the first time I handled it.

I've owned the G10 about a year and I'm used to it's heft and feel, and when I picked up the G11 that was my first thought. It seemed very cheap, light and not-tough.

Mind you, I'm no metalurgist or plasticurgist (??), and who knows, maybe the plastic is some space-aged composite polymer that can withstand more than the metal body of the G10, but I doubt it.

[10megapixel]

Yes, your over reacting. Just curious, how you can stand to use that XSi with all that "Cheap" plastic ? :rolleyes:

[blegeg]

Yes, your over reacting. Just curious, how you can stand to use that XSi with all that "Cheap" plastic ? :rolleyes:

Well cause it's so much more expensive see and so it's made out of more expensive plastic! Duh! Oh wait.... ;)

I just recently got a G10, and while it does feel and seem built better than my friend's G11 that doesn't mean the G11 is a peace of crap.

I'm going to go with you're over-reaching as well.

[robrobin]

I actually own all three at the moment g9, 10 and 11. The 9 is the most pocketable and the lens has the greatest range. The 10 and 11 are very close but the 11 wins out for me because of performance and the swivel screen. As far as the alloy construction "TALKING" mentions.....only a very small section of the rear panel was alloy. It was replaced with the same material that's on the rest of the g10 to save weight on a more complex product...the g11 wins in most of the categories that are important to me.

BTW: That "cheap plastic" as you call it makes up almost 80% of your G10!!!

[Tallking]

And 99% of his XSi :lol:

I've read many posts from people who are ready to dismiss the G11 altogether because of the articulating screen before they have ever tried out the camera and based a decision from it's performance and IQ (Which seems to make it's actual owners quite happy) ...but oh well, to each their own ;)

Hey, sit the two side-by-side and handle them. I like the articulating screen -- at least the idea of it. I don't like the implementation of it on this camera. I know there's plastic in both cameras (notably and disappointingly in the lens barrels, for example). This said, for whatever reason, Canon has chosen to replace "skin contact surfaces" that were metal in the G9 and G10 with obvious, cheap plastic on the G11. My G10 makes me feel as if I could use it to club Godzilla to death, and then take pictures of the corpse. The G11 (though allegedly weighing 5g more than the G10, per Canon) makes me feel like it's delicate. OK, I may well be over-reacting, but personally, I like the form of the G10 (and the G9, which I've had too). By contrast, for me, the G11 screams "Fisher Price". Unfair perhaps, but that's my view. BTW, I have no doubt that, so long as you don't try to kill Godzilla with it, it will take fine pictures.

My XSi? ? ? Of course it is what it is. One of the reasons I still own the G10 in addition to the XSi is to have some relief from all that obvious plastic. Keeping the record straight, I have made no attempt to compare the XSi to any of the G-series cameras.

[DDWD10]

The S90 has a metal front and back but it smudges if you just look at it the wrong way! I think the Gxx body is more resistant to this. Yes, the G11 has a plastic back, although its nicely textured and solid. Still, it lacks the cool solid feel of the G9 and G10's alloy back. If you look at the top plate of the G11, it's missing the rugged texture of the G9 and G10 as well. Curious, Canon. If the G11 had a metal back and an f/2 lens, I would've chosen it over the S90.

[minimalfear]

My G10 was the first camera I held and "felt" it's beauty in the hand.

I admired it's macho - retro -armored tank body and forgave its bulk because . . .it had CREED!

It tacitly represented the best of the breed. (IF you could over look its bulk).

I sold it after struggling to deal with the NOISE!

Haven't replaced it yet.

Decided to use the DSLR for E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G !

The G11 hasn't tempted me . . .not till it diets as well as learn new P/S tricks!

[tmwag]

My XSi? ? ? Of course it is what it is. One of the reasons I still own the G10 in addition to the XSi is to have some relief from all that obvious plastic.

Not reason enough..the XSi has too much much plastic your beloved G10 cannot overcome. The G10 has very bad image quality in low light. So in effect you have too much plastic and very bad low light performance.

[Tallking]

Not reason enough..the XSi has too much much plastic your beloved G10 cannot overcome. The G10 has very bad image quality in low light. So in effect you have too much plastic and very bad low light performance.

Please now, let's not stray too far from the original issue. Note, please, that I said "one reason". I have each camera because I use them both, but at different times and for different situations. And I enjoy shooting with both of them.

Also, since you mentioned it, really, the G10's high-ISO/LL performance, while certainly inferior to its own strong light performance, and the "any light" performance of most DSLRs, is really no worse than the performance of the films we all used to worship back before digital. The G10 at ISO-800 does no worse than an ASA-400 film pushed one or two stops. And with the G10, effective digital NR is only a couple mouse clicks away.

[alreadygone]

I don’t understand the problem with the use of plastics in the body construction. Quality plastics are very tough and don’t dent or scratch as easily as sheet aluminum or steal. I doubt material costs were a factor in the selection. Maybe titanium would be better, but the cost of material and fabrication would be prohibitive and unnecessary.

[Tallking]

I don’t understand the problem with the use of plastics in the body construction. Quality plastics are very tough and don’t dent or scratch as easily as sheet aluminum or steal. I doubt material costs were a factor in the selection. Maybe titanium would be better, but the cost of material and fabrication would be prohibitive and unnecessary.

Good point. I suppose one needs to look a little deeper and consider how the product used to make the surface (metal, plastic, or whatever) feels in the hands of the user. In the case of the G11, in my hands, the materials feel notably cheaper and less substantial than those used in the G9 and G10. I fully well realize that others may disagree -- and that's OK.

[DDWD10]

What do you find cheap besides the plastic back? I thought this was the main cost-cutting measure, but are there more?

[tmwag]

The G10 at ISO-800 does no worse than an ASA-400 film pushed one or two stops. And with the G10, effective digital NR is only a couple mouse clicks away.

A film comparison and NR is beside the point. The G11 is much better at high ISO and you seem to be denying that. Enjoy your G10 and I’ll enjoy my G11

[woos]

Uhhh, most of the camera is the same as the G10. However the back is plastic. However...even though it might not feel quite as solid as the G10, it's actually more durable...why, you ask?

Because you can fold the screen in. Don't need to worry about banging it against trees and rocks while hiking, etc. For that reason imho the G11 is a much better choice for hiking when you have it on a belt pouch etc....

Both have excellent build quality. The G10 has better IQ at Iso 80 and 100. 400 and above the G11 blows the G10 away. Just preference...

Do you want a cam that is amazing at low iso but bad at anything 400 and above? Or do you want a cam that is solid, but not the best, at everything? They both rock.

[tmwag]

The voice of reason^^

xcept for the better 80 and 100 iso performance, which is debatable

[Tallking]

A film comparison and NR is beside the point. The G11 is much better at high ISO and you seem to be denying that. Enjoy your G10 and I’ll enjoy my G11

Absolutely not [edit: denying the ISO aspect], and I'm not suggesting that anyone who prefers a G11 shouldn't enjoy their choice. As for IQ/ISO performance, the two cameras are what they are. Obviously, one of the main driving factors in the birth of the G11 model was to improve on LL/high ISO performance as compared especially to the G9 and G10 models. It appears that Canon succeeded in this effort. No, the film comparison is not beside the point. I was merely making the point that back when film was all we had, we lived with grain/noise, especially with pushed film, because it wasn't going away. NR, used properly, substantially mitigates, but certainly does not eliminate, the G10's noise issues.

[Tallking]

Uhhh, most of the camera is the same as the G10. However the back is plastic. However...even though it might not feel quite as solid as the G10, it's actually more durable...why, you ask?

Because you can fold the screen in. Don't need to worry about banging it against trees and rocks while hiking, etc. For that reason imho the G11 is a much better choice for hiking when you have it on a belt pouch etc....

Both have excellent build quality. The G10 has better IQ at Iso 80 and 100. 400 and above the G11 blows the G10 away. Just preference...

Do you want a cam that is amazing at low iso but bad at anything 400 and above? Or do you want a cam that is solid, but not the best, at everything? They both rock.

Respectfully, I don't buy that durability argument, at least not without qualification. The problem I see is that, while you can certainly fold the screen in, it also folds out by what appears to me to be a very obviously vulnerable plastic hinge mechanism. One good hit on that thing, especially when folded out (when it has great potential for exerting leverage against the hinge), and you've got a whole new mode of failure that is simply non-existent on the G7, G9, and G10. Moreover, while it is obvious that the face of the G7-10's screen is always exposed (though a protector film can help), that doesn't mean it's uniquely vulnerable to being whacked. It may be somewhat more vulnerable to being hit, but you fail to acknowledge that if you hit that neatly folded G11 screen sufficiently hard, you'll kill it too, even if it's folded face in.

All this said, I'm not "anti folding screen". I just don't see it as that much of an advantage, if any, and I've never missed having one (admittedly, I've never had a camera with one) and have done just fine without this feature. But again, as you've noted yourself, whatever works for you. :cool:

[tmwag]

Ah, Ok the film days. Noise/grain co-existed in a favorable way. I haven't used any kind of NR software cause I don't need to in my photography. I guess noise/grain and distortion could be used in a favorable way....

[Tallking]

Uhhh, most of the camera is the same as the G10. However the back is plastic. . . . I may be mistaken, but based upon my lookover, I thought the entire exterior shell, front and back, had gone plastic on the G11. That said, you own one, and I've had one look, so I'll defer if that's not correct.

The G10 has better IQ at Iso 80 and 100. 400 and above the G11 blows the G10 away. Just preference...

Do you want a cam that is amazing at low iso but bad at anything 400 and above? Or do you want a cam that is solid, but not the best, at everything? They both rock.

Another thought on this, relative to the colored-added comment. In the late 70s and early 80s, I took a lot of shots on Tri-X, sometimes pushed up to two stops. It was distinctly grainy, esp when pushed and/or substantially enlarged. But assuming the image was worthy, nobody would have called that "bad," it just was what it was. Maybe I'll dig in some really old boxes and see if I can find any of those, but in my mind anyway, the G10's ISO 400-800 performance really isn't any worse overall (I find noise impact varies depending greatly upon context) than Tri-X was back then. I shot very little higher speed color back then, which is why I'm comparing to a BW film.

At the end of the day (and for the foreseeable days...) irrespective of its relative merits, coveting a G11 is a moot point for me. With our wonderful economy, my practice is way off, so the G10-plus-NR is the best I'll be doing for a while (apart from using the XSi). I started the thread because I was surprised at how the G11 felt in my hands at BB compared to my trusty G10. But I certainly didn't mean it was bad in any particular way. I'd have smiled had I received one for Christmas... :cool:

[tmwag]

All this said, I'm not "anti folding screen". I just don't see it as that much of an advantage, if any, and I've never missed having one (admittedly, I've never had a camera with one) and have done just fine without this feature. But again, as you've noted yourself, whatever works for you. :cool:

How about when in a crowd and the subject is over the heads of everyone? The tilt screen comes in extremely handy.. although you may not find yourself in that situation often?

[10megapixel]

I may be mistaken, but based upon my lookover, I thought the entire exterior shell, front and back, had gone plastic on the G11. That said, you own one, and I've had one look, so I'll defer if that's not correct.



Another thought on this, relative to the colored-added comment. In the late 70s and early 80s, I took a lot of shots on Tri-X, sometimes pushed up to two stops. It was distinctly grainy, esp when pushed and/or substantially enlarged. But assuming the image was worthy, nobody would have called that "bad," it just was what it was. Maybe I'll dig in some really old boxes and see if I can find any of those, but in my mind anyway, the G10's ISO 400-800 performance really isn't any worse overall (I find noise impact varies depending greatly upon context) than Tri-X was back then. I shot very little higher speed color back then, which is why I'm comparing to a BW film.

At the end of the day (and for the foreseeable days...) irrespective of its relative merits, coveting a G11 is a moot point for me. With our wonderful economy, my practice is way off, so the G10-plus-NR is the best I'll be doing for a while (apart from using the XSi). I started the thread because I was surprised at how the G11 felt in my hands at BB compared to my trusty G10. But I certainly didn't mean it was bad in any particular way. I'd have smiled had I received one for Christmas... :cool:

I guess it's just when you use the words "Cheap" and say " It Screams Fisher Price" it seems like you mean it in a bad way, and kind of a little slap in the face to those G11 owners who really like what they have...you know?


That said, it sounds like you should definitely buy up a spare G10 then. Canon is the leader when it comes to articulating screens on cameras and skipped the feature on only 3 G series models. Who knows if it will be on the G12, but if I had to guess I'd say it will be.

I think to most people the advantages and ease of a articulating screen overshadow the slim possibility for disaster that you speak of. Some of those advantages are
being able to fold the screen in to avoid scratches, taking pictures from almost any angle, getting more candid shots with the camera in your lap instead of up to your face.

The screens not for everyone but I would certainly bet that it's tough enough to last for the life of the camera. It was a popular feature on the G series for a long time and regardless the build material, many are glad it has returned to add even more versatility.

[woos]

Another thought on this, relative to the colored-added comment. In the late 70s and early 80s, I took a lot of shots on Tri-X, sometimes pushed up to two stops. It was distinctly grainy, esp when pushed and/or substantially enlarged. But assuming the image was worthy, nobody would have called that "bad," it just was what it was. Maybe I'll dig in some really old boxes and see if I can find any of those, but in my mind anyway, the G10's ISO 400-800 performance really isn't any worse overall (I find noise impact varies depending greatly upon context) than Tri-X was back then. I shot very little higher speed color back then, which is why I'm comparing to a BW film.


Hehe yeah I wasn't around then! :)

And sure, bad is a relative term of course! Anyway, I'm quite sure that most of the G11 is metal, just not the back lcd thingy...I could be wrong though. If it's plastic it's some greatttt feeling plastic. It feels substantial and rugged to me. I love the folding screen as well. For me the G11 was the right choice over the 10...why?

Because almost all the shots I take with it are indoors or outdoor simple spur of the moment stuff--I have an slr I use when going to scenic places to capture landscapes and such...That folding screen also works greeaaat for making quick how-to movies at work, and taking macro pics of strange stuff for our internal wiki! If the majority of shots someone else does are landscapes on a tripod, the G10 would imho be the choice there prolly. They are two of the best point and shoot cameras available. Hell, even the G9 still rocks!

The s90 is fantastic too but the reason I didn't get it? I really wanted the hotshoe hehe--that way just one more way it could serve as a backup to SLR.

[GSeries1]

I sell these cameras and handle them daily; my opinion is that the build of the G9 and G10 is a higher quality than the G11. All of these models have their respective pros and cons though.

[Tallking]

I guess it's just when you use the words "Cheap" and say " It Screams Fisher Price" it seems like you mean it in a bad way, and kind of a little slap in the face to those G11 owners who really like what they have...you know?
. . .
Point well taken. Perhaps my initial choice of words was a tad, umm, harsh. I was still feeling what what to me the surprise and some letdown (though obviously, my personal stake in this is relatively low). Over the years, we've seen the build quality of so many things head down the toilet, I feared (and still do) that Canon may have chosen a path I wish they'd avoid.

[sperho]

I'll bet a scuffed plastic body with an excellent sensor has more re-sale value than a dented metal body with a lesser sensor. :)

I dented my G3 moons ago and the data ports door never shut correctly after that. I don't think plastic is a big deal. Also, the lightness reduces their momentum when they hit the ground, so less G shock on the electronics........

[DDWD10]

Compromises are, unfortuantely, reality. My ideal G compact would have the body of the G10, the sensor of the G11, and an f/2-f/4 24-85mm lens.

[Tallking]

I'll bet a scuffed plastic body with an excellent sensor has more re-sale value than a dented metal body with a lesser sensor. :)

I dented my G3 moons ago and the data ports door never shut correctly after that. I don't think plastic is a big deal. Also, the lightness reduces their momentum when they hit the ground, so less G shock on the electronics........

I'd rather have a dent in metal than a crack in plastic. Dented metal can be often be undented. Cracked plastic is done. And if you're counting on the difference in momentum between a plastic and metal body saving your bacon when your camera crashes to the ground, well, that's a pretty thin difference. And when was the last time you saw a piece of metal shatter and scatter?

Hey, I'm not anti-plastic, per se (see below, I own an XSi in addition to my G10). Given a choice, I prefer lightweight metal construction compared to maybe slightly lighter plastic.

[Tallking]

Compromises are, unfortuantely, reality. My ideal G compact would have the body of the G10, the sensor of the G11, and an f/2-f/4 24-85mm lens.

I'm still fantasizing about a G-sized body that houses a full-frame sensor. Yeah, yeah, I know, there are those pesky rules of physics and optics that must be obeyed, but still, it's a cool idea. . .

[10megapixel]

I'd rather have a dent in metal than a crack in plastic. Dented metal can be often be undented. Cracked plastic is done. And if you're counting on the difference in momentum between a plastic and metal body saving your bacon when your camera crashes to the ground, well, that's a pretty thin difference. And when was the last time you saw a piece of metal shatter and scatter?

Hey, I'm not anti-plastic, per se (see below, I own an XSi in addition to my G10). Given a choice, I prefer lightweight metal construction compared to maybe slightly lighter plastic.

If you dropped the camera hard enough to do either then then it will have much bigger issues to worry about ;).

I carry around a 1D with a 70-200 attached for about 3-4 hours a night, and I often wish they were BOTH made of a high quality LIGHT plastic polymer. Metal construction is nice and all, but when you feel like icing your arm down at the end of the day then you can start to see the advantages of the lighter alternative. Unfortunately, no matter how high quality the material, the words "Cheap" and "Toy" would inevitably show up in their description by some.

[Tallking]

If you dropped the camera hard enough to do either then then it will have much bigger issues to worry about ;).
I absolutely agree. I was responding to the other poster who posited a "fall advantage" for plastic cameras as a result of less momentum carried by the lighter body.

I carry around a 1D with a 70-200 attached for about 3-4 hours a night, and I often wish they were BOTH made of a high quality LIGHT plastic polymer. Metal construction is nice and all, but when you feel like icing your arm down at the end of the day then you can start to see the advantages of the lighter alternative. Unfortunately, no matter how high quality the material, the words "Cheap" and "Toy" would inevitably show up in their description by some.
I do admit that I like the compact size and relative weight of the XSi, as compared to Canon's larger, mostly metal DSLRs. No, I'm not trying to sound (or be) inconsistent. One of the reasons I "settled" with an XSi (apart from money...) was it's compact size (size much more than weight). It really is a smaller box than any of the other Canon DSLRs. This alone could be a valuable advantage for someone in your position. Back to the original idea, maybe I should add the qualifier of "in the same size range" or something like that. All these cameras are easily capable of making great pictures without breaking a sweat. I suppose much of what we're arguing about is personal preference and need. My pref is for metal, but again, if I were lugging around what you are, my view might change.

[sperho]

Ok. My experience has been such that I've dented more metal cameras than I've shattered plastic ones. YMMV.

[DDWD10]

I noticed that the panel on the back of the articulating LCD is metal. Nice touch I guess. Th G series needs an f/2 lens more than it needs a metal back, but either or both would be nice!

[GSeries1]

There is a reason they don't make 1D's out of plastic.

[Tallking]

Ok. My experience has been such that I've dented more metal cameras than I've shattered plastic ones. YMMV.

Mine too. The difference is that, so long as the dent isn't catastrophic, the metal camera keeps right on working. No so with a shattered plastic one (which I've seen too). My New F-1 got a horrible dent up on the AE finder I ordered it with. Much to my happy surprise, the thing just kept shooting as if nothing had happened, notwithstanding the pencil-eraser-sized "ding" on its upper surface.

This was the defining experience for me. Despite its battle damage, my NF-1 just kept on shooting great pictures. That's what I'll always expect from an expensive camera. I just don't think that plastic can uphold its end of "the bargain" on this point.

[jr_senator]

The G11 is simply the best G- series camera to date!
Why does it not come with a wireless remote like my G5?

[10megapixel]

There is a reason they don't make 1D's out of plastic.

Yes. It's actually cheaper to stamp out magnesium alloy than it is to mold high quality impact resistant polymer bodies ;) At least it is right now for Canon,
what I mean is... In the long run it would be cheaper to manufacture polymer plastic, but Canon currently has millions invested in the dies and tooling for the metal bodies, and a complete changeover to injection molded would be very expensive. A HQ polymer would probably have better impact absorption characteristics, among other advatages. Titanium would be the ultimate...super light, and tough, but you can imagine what that would cost.

[GSeries1]

Yeah, and why no time lapse or 1028x764 video like my G9?

[DDWD10]

Yeah, and why no time lapse or 1028x764 video like my G9?

Yeah, my SD1000 had more video options than my S90 has. Time lapse and 60fps 320x240 to name two. I heard they had to remove this feature because it wasn't supported by the DiGiC IV processor :(

[Tallking]

Why does it not come with a wireless remote like my G5?

Well, put simply, it's because the G11 is NOT simply the best G-series camera ever. . . It's yet another attempt by Canon to balance one set of virtues against another set of vices. If the G11 is "best", where is its remote? ? ? Only 10MP? ? ? And so on. Well, I did start this thread, but it seems it's devolving into a spirited debate akin to one trying to address whether chocolate or strawberry ice cream is "best".

[GSeries1]

Chocolate damnit.... isn't it obvious?

[10megapixel]

Rocky road is you fools!

[jr_senator]

If the G11 is "best",... Only 10MP? ? ?
I have no problem with "just" 10MP. My 1D3 has "just" 10MP. There are problems well and often expressed by members of this forum about the downside of so many pixies on such a small sensor. My G5 "just" has 5MP but the two highest awards I have received in contests were taken with it.

[DDWD10]

I think the G11/S90 should've dropped the MP even more. How about 7 super-clean megapixels?

[tmwag]

Why does it not come with a wireless remote like my G5?

Good point, the G5 is the best

Yeah, and why no time lapse or 1028x764 video like my G9?

Oh yea, forgot about that one..the G9 is the best

If the G11 is "best", where is its remote? ? ? Only 10MP? ? ?

Well, I concede the G10 is the best

Rocky road is you fools!

Yep, rocky road is the best

[GSeries1]

Good point, the G5 is the best



Oh yea, forgot about that one..the G9 is the best



Well, I concede the G10 is the best



Yep, rocky road is the best

bw!

[jr_senator]

Yes. It's actually cheaper to stamp out magnesium alloy than it is to mold high quality impact resistant polymer bodies...
I would like to know the source for your statement. Considering the entire process, start to finish, including the fact that metal needs additional time , thus labor, and additional machines/equipment to drill and tap threads that are built into the molds for plastic bodies, I'm surprised metal bodies cost less to make than plastic ones.

[robrobin]

Hmmm, if the measure of quality is by weight then maybe lead would make great ballast in a camera! Again, having all three, I've decide for my purposes the G11 suits the bill....so the others are going to family members. All served me well and excel in different areas.

[Chairman7w]

Sigh... They're all excellent cameras.

Let's not start a Holy War Harris....

[Tallking]

Sigh... They're all excellent cameras.

Let's not start a Holy War Harris....

Well, of course they are. My point in initiating the thread was not to ignite an exchange of ugliness, but rather, to begin an adult discussion of the relative build quality of the subject cameras. I think we achieved that. In no way do I think that the G11 is a "bad" camera. Would I keep one if I received it as a gift? Happily. But I do remain concerned about what I perceive, IMO, as a degradation in build quality. Are you perfectly free to believe that I'm FoS? Without doubt. But it remains a worthy discussion, and I hope Canon is listening too.

[drainky]

I'm considering a G11 although I've a G10. I love my G10 and because of that I bought a fabulous underwater housing so that I could shoot away with no worries. So here comes the G11. I need 14.5 meg like I need a 170mph Lamborgini, especially if 10 meg and 100mph Ford are sufficient. For me, the housing has added extra value to the camera and I like the improvements of the G11. Convenience seems to be the definitive arbiter of any purchase, i.e. is a computer necessary to define the "great shot", what about paper?, what about software application-what if you are a great photographer but have a limited budget. I like the discussions, and while the metal of the camera and its performance are viable concerns I have found that: at certain times an articulated screen would be great, at certain times the metal body is great-wow! I'm back to my old F10. I'm beginning to lean to the G11 if my underwater housing fits...I'll soon find out.
Cheers!

[SloopJohnE]

Well, this afternoon, I stopped by the local BestBuy, mostly out of morbid curiosity. This was, however, the first time I've had the chance to carefully look over a G11. I was amazed, and NOT in a good way. Hey, you all can keep that articulatable screen if the cheapening of the camera is what it takes to get it. Times are tough, but I almost whipped out the credit card to buy a second G10 so I'll still have one if my primary blows up. I simply could not believe how cheap the G11 feels compared to the G10. OK, rant mode off -- am I over-reacting? I really did not like the new camera -- so much cheap plastic where there used to be metal. I LOVE the "machined from a block of metal" feeling of the G10, and that's totally missing from the G11. Am I missing something? ? ?

This is good to know, as I have no way to get a hands-on look at a G11 where I live. I almost put my G10 on the market and placed an order to Adorama for a G11. I'm very glad I didn't!

[NERV]

I love my G10, hopefully that articulating screen doesn't end up on the G12...wait, aren't they done with the G series now?

[DDWD10]

I think (or hope) the S series will continue while the G series moves to a larger sensor. The Olympus E-PL1 has an MSRP of $599 with a M4/3 sensor. Canon should be able to compete with this. Heck, even if it doesn't sport interchangeable senses it would be a hit. Just put a 24-85mm f/1.8-2.8 lens on it for the time being.

[RayHff]

What I like best about the G11 is not how it feels but how well it takes photos.

Examples:

http://laurencekimblog.com/index.php?category=16&start=4

[tmwag]

Incredible link^^...who needs a DSLR?

[JimAskew]

Hey, sit the two side-by-side and handle them. I like the articulating screen -- at least the idea of it. I don't like the implementation of it on this camera. I know there's plastic in both cameras (notably and disappointingly in the lens barrels, for example). This said, for whatever reason, Canon has chosen to replace "skin contact surfaces" that were metal in the G9 and G10 with obvious, cheap plastic on the G11. My G10 makes me feel as if I could use it to club Godzilla to death, and then take pictures of the corpse. The G11 (though allegedly weighing 5g more than the G10, per Canon) makes me feel like it's delicate. OK, I may well be over-reacting, but personally, I like the form of the G10 (and the G9, which I've had too). By contrast, for me, the G11 screams "Fisher Price". Unfair perhaps, but that's my view. BTW, I have no doubt that, so long as you don't try to kill Godzilla with it, it will take fine pictures.

My XSi? ? ? Of course it is what it is. One of the reasons I still own the G10 in addition to the XSi is to have some relief from all that obvious plastic. Keeping the record straight, I have made no attempt to compare the XSi to any of the G-series cameras.
Must be like the "obvious, cheap plastic" on my 17-55MM f/2.8 EF-S IS I have used without incident for the past five years? I just upgraded to the G11 from my G10...my first impressions are very favorable...great IQ and I love the folding LCD screen. Didn't notice any "obvious, cheap plastic" when using it.

[Tallking]

Must be like the "obvious, cheap plastic" on my 17-55MM f/2.8 EF-S IS I have used without incident for the past five years? I just upgraded to the G11 from my G10...my first impressions are very favorable...great IQ and I love the folding LCD screen. Didn't notice any "obvious, cheap plastic" when using it.

Well, all I can say is that some of obviously have discerning taste, while, ummm, others don't. Come to think of it, many EF-S lenses do feel pretty cheap, especially when compared to their FD predecessors. I never said that that the G11 would capture crappy images. If you enjoy the feel of lightweight plastic, power to you. To each his own. I don't. Ironically, I could probably handle a G11, if I needed a new camera, except for that folding screen. I'm perfectly OK with others who like this contraption, but I don't want it. IMO, it's just another potential point of failure that's not present on a G10. Me? I'll keep my nice, high MP G10. Its much-maligned high-ISO performance isn't really any worse than high-ISO films were back in "the day". And it's backside is made out of nice, firm-feeling durable metal.

[JimAskew]

What I like best about the G11 is not how it feels but how well it takes photos.

Examples:

http://laurencekimblog.com/index.php?category=16&start=4
Awesome photos! Awesome site. As your photos demonstrate the G11 rocks! I bought my G10 (now G11) as a "target of opportunity" camera to keep with me when I am out and about. I upgraded to the G11 to get the improved high ISO capability. I love the folding LCD screen as it allows me to catch my grandkids in candid shots as they always go into "pose" mode when they see me point the camera at them. All in all, it does indeed take awesome photos!

[JimAskew]

Well, all I can say is that some of obviously have discerning taste, while, ummm, others don't. Come to think of it, many EF-S lenses do feel pretty cheap, especially when compared to their FD predecessors. I never said that that the G11 would capture crappy images. If you enjoy the feel of lightweight plastic, power to you. To each his own. I don't. Ironically, I could probably handle a G11, if I needed a new camera, except for that folding screen. I'm perfectly OK with others who like this contraption, but I don't want it. IMO, it's just another potential point of failure that's not present on a G10. Me? I'll keep my nice, high MP G10. Its much-maligned high-ISO performance isn't really any worse than high-ISO films were back in "the day". And it's backside is made out of nice, firm-feeling durable metal.
When you demonstrate how "build" makes better photos then I will concede your point. My plastic 17-55MM f/2.8EF-S IS shoots rings around my 24-70MM f/2.8 EF L...aka "the brick", and I have 30+ weddings with it to prove my point. I've only had my G11 for a week but in that limited time I have really seen a great improvement in functionality (LCD screen) and IQ (low light) over my G10.

Everybody should buy the photo gear that fits their shooting style and budget but metal is not in any way superior to modern plastics when it comes to construction gear.

[Tallking]

When you demonstrate how "build" makes better photos then I will concede your point. My plastic 17-55MM f/2.8EF-S IS shoots rings around my 24-70MM f/2.8 EF L...aka "the brick", and I have 30+ weddings with it to prove my point. I've only had my G11 for a week but in that limited time I have really seen a great improvement in functionality (LCD screen) and IQ (low light) over my G10.

Everybody should buy the photo gear that fits their shooting style and budget but metal is not in any way superior to modern plastics when it comes to construction gear.

Jim: Of course, all of us are, and should be, free to purchase and use whatever equipment we prefer to use. If you're OK with lightweight plastic, that's your call.

Back in 1983, I owned an F-1N with the AE finder. It was a wonderful, super heavy duty camera that felt as if its whole body had been machined from a solid block of aluminum.

That year found me as a Second Lieutenant in the Marines at The Basic School ("TBS" for all who know of Marine officer things). TBS is a six-month "finishing school" all new USMC officers attend before they are turned loose on "the fleet." To my great chagrin, the company commander found out that I was "equipped," and I immediately became the company photog. That meant that, in addition to all of my "real" combat gear, I had the privilege of adding my expensive, personally owned camera gear.

On one field exercise, I ended up having to dive headlong for cover into a fighting hole. Whilst doing so, the top of my M-16A1 (rear sight area) rifle literally smashed full force into the top of the prism of my F-1NAE. It put a deep 2-3 mm dent into the top corner of the finder/prism head. I thought, well for sure, this thing is dead now. When I had a chance to stop and examine it, I found, to my happy amazement that I was wrong. Despite its very obvious, finish-destroying battle scar, the camera and its AE finder/prism still worked as they had when new (about two years earlier).

I am very well convinced that had this camera been made from the thin plastic used in the G11, it would have shattered into pieces, and been, at very best, a heavy-duty repair, or more probably, a write-off.

If you're happy with your G11, that's great, really (and I don't mean that sarcastically). My point is that I learned, way back in 1983, that if the camera can stand up to massive abuse, and keep taking great pics (which mine did for four more years until stolen...), well, that camera is a keeper. Cameras that shatter easily, well, they don't take any pics, good or bad, after they're out of commission.

IQ is meaningless if the device that produces great IQ is scattered in pieces at your feet. I'm sorry, but I just don't trust or like plastic (even if it feels OK) serving as the structural medium for my cameras.

[Tallking]

Let me hasten to add, before someone calls me on it, that as much as I like my XSi (and I do like it), I'm always concerned by its plastic body. I would never take it on an outing in which I expected it to take real beating. I'd use the G10 for that, and suck it up on the IQ.

[10megapixel]

Let me hasten to add, before someone calls me on it, that as much as I like my XSi (and I do like it), I'm always concerned by its plastic body. I would never take it on an outing in which I expected it to take real beating. I'd use the G10 for that, and suck it up on the IQ.


http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/845602

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpy1c5xlTso&feature=player_embedded

[tmwag]

"Hi impact plastic".. Fluke no doubt...do not try this at home. Wonder if he approached the Canon marketing dept?

[JimAskew]

Jim: Of course, all of us are, and should be, free to purchase and use whatever equipment we prefer to use. If you're OK with lightweight plastic, that's your call.

Back in 1983, I owned an F-1N with the AE finder. It was a wonderful, super heavy duty camera that felt as if its whole body had been machined from a solid block of aluminum.

That year found me as a Second Lieutenant in the Marines at The Basic School ("TBS" for all who know of Marine officer things). TBS is a six-month "finishing school" all new USMC officers attend before they are turned loose on "the fleet." To my great chagrin, the company commander found out that I was "equipped," and I immediately became the company photog. That meant that, in addition to all of my "real" combat gear, I had the privilege of adding my expensive, personally owned camera gear.

On one field exercise, I ended up having to dive headlong for cover into a fighting hole. Whilst doing so, the top of my M-16A1 (rear sight area) rifle literally smashed full force into the top of the prism of my F-1NAE. It put a deep 2-3 mm dent into the top corner of the finder/prism head. I thought, well for sure, this thing is dead now. When I had a chance to stop and examine it, I found, to my happy amazement that I was wrong. Despite its very obvious, finish-destroying battle scar, the camera and its AE finder/prism still worked as they had when new (about two years earlier).

I am very well convinced that had this camera been made from the thin plastic used in the G11, it would have shattered into pieces, and been, at very best, a heavy-duty repair, or more probably, a write-off.

If you're happy with your G11, that's great, really (and I don't mean that sarcastically). My point is that I learned, way back in 1983, that if the camera can stand up to massive abuse, and keep taking great pics (which mine did for four more years until stolen...), well, that camera is a keeper. Cameras that shatter easily, well, they don't take any pics, good or bad, after they're out of commission.

IQ is meaningless if the device that produces great IQ is scattered in pieces at your feet. I'm sorry, but I just don't trust or like plastic (even if it feels OK) serving as the structural medium for my cameras.
You are living in an ever shrinking world my friend. Technology today is that metal is replaced by high impact poly-carbonates for many high end devices. My glasses, much of my Toyota Highlander external parts, even the lenses in the glasses. BTW...in 43 years of photography I have never had a piece of my gear "scattered in pieces at my feet" The only Canon issue I have ever had was when my 24-70MM got stuck on my 30D and I had to send it in to Canon NJ for a repair...the metal locking lever was broken...they fixed it for free! :)

[linh811]

Not reason enough..the XSi has too much much plastic your beloved G10 cannot overcome. The G10 has very bad image quality in low light. So in effect you have too much plastic and very bad low light performance.

LMAO

THIS is the reason why I'm still on this forum!!! bw!bw!

[Tallking]

Yes, your over reacting. Just curious, how you can stand to use that XSi with all that "Cheap" plastic ? :rolleyes:

Ooops, forgot to respond to this post before. My answer is, "very easily." I got mine from our local Circuit City as it was breathing its last liquidation gasps. For a couple of weeks, I dropped by the CC store, monitoring the stock vs price. I waited until there were only a few left, and the price had dropped as far as I thought it would, then grabbed one.

Very cheap price goes a very long way toward making that plastic tolerable. So, for now anyway, I have a "low end" DSLR, made of plastic, that has the standard kit lens (upgrades perhaps later). Even hobbled by the kit lens, the XSi takes LL pics with less noise, all being equal, than the G10. I tend to choose it when size is simply not an issue and/or I may be shooting in LL.

As for the G10 vs G11, perhaps I would not be as put off by the G11's plastic, were it not such an obvious change from the immediate predecessor G10. Perhaps Canon should have made a G11-A, with the new sensor, but otherwise like a G10 (for folks like me) and a G11-B, with the folding screen as the current model appears. Then we could all be happy with it.

Oh yeah, I'd be 100% in love with a G11, as is, were I able to snag one for roughly half price. Again, cheap prices make cheap plastic a whole lot easier to live with. ;)

[Tallking]

Initial quote: Not reason enough..the XSi has too much much plastic your beloved G10 cannot overcome. The G10 has very bad image quality in low light. So in effect you have too much plastic and very bad low light performance.

LMAO

THIS is the reason why I'm still on this forum!!! bw!bw!

I just chalked it up to tmw being off his meds... ;) Seriously though, I mention this because, to a certain extent, I'm baffled at how strong a reaction there is to the G10's IQ in low light. Sure, there's lots of noise. And sure, large DSLRs with large CMOS sensors are vastly superior in LL situations. On the other hand, back in the film days, we had to deal with heavy grain when using high speed films, especially when pushed in processing. I may be accused of being a Luddite, but I really don't find the G10's LL performance all that bad, when compared to the past (and especially when its performance is fortified by careful use of noise reduction software). Of course, we're not living in the past, so the perfectly valid counter argument is that today, we don't have to put up with noise the way we had to put up with grainy high-speed films before digital.

[mucher]

I was astonished how cheap G11 felt when the first time I got my hands on it, and I wouldn't trade my G10 for it no matter how good IQ G11 has or has not. Canon has really downgraded the prosumer G10 to a high-end consumer G11.

[tmwag]

Talking again? Mucher...LOL

[mucher]

Was I banned before? I didn't know, it has been a long time since my last vist here.

[jdizzle]

I just picked up a G11 yesterday and I really like it. I also handled a G10 before and the build quality is real nice too. The one thing I like about the G11 is the articulating screen. There will be times when you can't see your subject and the screen will articulate to view what you need to shoot. The other plus with the screen is that you can turn it around when putting it away. This prevents it from damaging the screen. I know people can put protection on it but, I don't feel it needs it when just carrying around. Anyways, it's really what people prefer and according to reviews, the G11 beats out the G10 in the noise department.

[GSeries1]

Was I banned before? I didn't know, it has been a long time since my last vist here.

It's cool,,, I've been banned 2 or 3 times... Lifetime at that... Some a##holes just need to be told how the world really works and so I take one for the team sometimes.

[GSeries1]

I just picked up a G11 yesterday and I really like it. I also handled a G10 before and the build quality is real nice too. The one thing I like about the G11 is the articulating screen. There will be times when you can't see your subject and the screen will articulate to view what you need to shoot. The other plus with the screen is that you can turn it around when putting it away. This prevents it from damaging the screen. I know people can put protection on it but, I don't feel it needs it when just carrying around. Anyways, it's really what people prefer and according to reviews, the G11 beats out the G10 in the noise department.

In low light the G11 wins hands down, of course in good light I would rather have the G10... pros and cons,,, pros and cons...

[tmwag]

I've been banned 2 or 3 times... Lifetime at that.

Why? is the only/my question...?:)

[rmblfsh]

Only problems with build for the g11 in my opinion are the flimsy buttons, and the leaking lcd screen. Thankfully the manual control wheels on the top of the camera feel very solid, and even the hinge for the screen is firmly in place (we'll see how it holds up in the future tho). Still these quality issues are minor and shouldn't stop anyone from enjoying this fine camera