Amateur concert shots, what / how to charge? + PICS

[Arsonist lolol]

Hey everyone, I've recently dropped myself into shooting all of my friends' bands at their small shows. I shoot my 3rd show on the 29th....so I'm not too skilled in this type of photography yet. However, all of my friends LOVE the pictures...as do my parents. The positive feedback I've receieved is amazing, and I might be going on a 3 week west coast tour with another band and taking all of their live shots, and a few promo shots. Recently my parents brought up charging for the live pictures, and I'd love to but I feel somewhat awkward asking for money, mainly because: 1) they are my friends and I need this (experience) as much as they do 2) I am overly critical of myself so I feel that every shot I take is horrible, not worth money, and could be improved in some way. But on the other hand, I do need money badly....


So I was wondering:
How would you go about asking your friends to pay you for the pictures you took of their band. -- The drummer for the band I usually shoot for said if I asked for money they could probably pay.

How you would charge -- Can't really do a time amount, they usually play with like 5 other bands so they're only on stage for about 10 mins. So could I do it per picture?

And how much do you charge? I suppose it depends on how the actual picture came out in the end...but figured I'd ask.



EDIT: These are mainly to be used on the web, such as the bands MySpace profile, however some might be used on CD covers / booklets in the near future.


Here's some examples of what I've shot so far. Taken at the last show (6/14/05; my 2nd time shooting live) with Digital Rebel, Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 and 420EX.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/WhileInSilence/CurtisSing.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/WhileInSilence/JessePit.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/WhileInSilence/Mosh.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/WhileInSilence/ThisisWhereMyHeartLies.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/WhileInSilence/JesseScott.jpg


Thank you all for any advice / comments / critiques you can spare.
-Chris Giordano

[RockSlut]

Nice work. My only comment on your photos is that I don't see a lot of the performer's faces. Wide crowd shots are great, but I think tight shots where the performer is easily distinguishable are also very important.

Your style is very different to mine, and also your location...but here is what I do.

For live music photos I charge a minimum of AUD $150. Then I adjust up depending on the number of photos required and what they are required for. I usually supply 10-12 images at 640x427px saved for web (40-60kb files) and I would normally charge AUD $200. For the same images for print purposes I would charge AUD $300. Even at these prices there is not a lot of work coming in. Pricing your work is dependent on what the market will handle - here it is weak so I price my work accordingly. I also scare off some work when I tell them my prices. Many seem to think $25-$100 is all that they should pay. I don't want that kind of business because it's a waste of my time and, in my opinion would erode the value of my work.

When I do cut a deal (and I have) I make it very clear what I would normally charge for what I give the band and I will tell them exactly why I have done so. This has been successful for me in the past because I am very careful about who I will "do a deal" for and when.

As for asking your friends to pay you - Do you pay to get into the gig? Do they get paid for their gigs? Do people pay for copies of their EP/Album/Single/T-Shirts/Stickers etc? I would say that the answer to all of these questions (except perhaps the first) is yes. They are not just musicians - they are small business operators. There are costs associated with running a business of any kind and photos for promotional purposes are one of many expenses.

If they were to argue about paying for them, then tell them to get photos of the same quality or better for free elsewhere. At the end of the day you have expenses - an expensive camera, transport to and from the gig, cover charges, insurance, tax plus - Also, why put the working professionals out of work because you will do it for free?

I recommend Concert Photography: How to Shoot and Sell Music Business Photographs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0964700913/qid=1119764875/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/002-9277649-8957666?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) by Jon Sievert. I hope this information is of assistance.

[Arsonist lolol]

Angus, thank you very much for the detailed response. You're right, there aren't many face shots, I suppose it's because I'm standing right on the side of the stage with them, a small stage at that. And if I step off to get face shots, I'm in the mosh pit. The one frontal shot of the guitarist I got lucky on, I stood behind a beefy security guard.

Sadly, I do pay to get into the gig....I feel that they should at least cover that for me, considering I plan on shooting at every one of their shows. They don't always have merch for sale, so I'm not sure how much money they're raking in, but I want a cut!

I suppose I could give them a subtle ultimatum...I mean I am providing a service for them, and no one else is there taking pictures; it's a monopoly. I'll look into that book as well. I feel that AUD $150 will be a little steep for the quality of pictures I'm providing (there's my self-hating negative attitude rearing its head), but even if it's something around $50 that's fine for me, I have so much fun doing it, and getting my name out is my main concern right now. The larger my name is, the more gigs I get.

I'm still scared to do this for hire or anything though...I dont want to advertise myself and have a band call me and ask to come to their show to take pictures and then fail by not providing quality images....However I suppose that feeling will fade once I shoot more shows and build my confidence and portfolio.

Thanks again so much for the information

[RockSlut]

No worries :). One last thing - remember to prepare the images for them to use you spend time post processing also. You need to remember when you sell your photos you are also selling the time you spent shooting and editting the images as well as your expertise all of these should be reflected in the price you charge.

I understand your issues with mosh pits. The show I was at last night was getting very rough towards the end and you have to choose your moments. It's all rock and roll!

Good luck with it, and please, tell us how you go!

[Jim G]

Hey... thanks for bringing this up, this info is great for me too as I'm doing a few local 'gigs' in about a month and a half's time... one as a favour to a dear friend and the others as just local bands for practice and hopefully payment if the shots turn out well.

Just curious... do the band members or crowd find it particularly distracting when you are moving about on-stage using a flash or is this just something that you are careful to avoid?

J

[Arsonist lolol]

No problem Jim :) Well with hard rock / metal music (basically music with mosh pits) the kids and band are too hyped up to care about a flash. And at times the venue will blast a strobe light for a like 10 seconds, so I use flash all the time. As for moving, I tend to stick to one side of the stage moving from the back of the stage to the front, never really in their way. If I want to switch sides I'll just wait till the song is over.

[PhotosGuy]

Since the pics are for friends to use on the web, I'd give them a cheap price for that use only! © the pics (as a group on CD for $30). Reserve the other rights & make sure that they know what that means. Then, if they need rights for a CD cover, etc, you can sell them as the situation arises.

[lostdoggy]

Being that they are friends and you need them as much as they need you. Make this your opportunity to advertise yourself. Make sure that it is agreed that the photos will retain all copyright info and make sure the info on the picture can't be cropped out, place it in a conpicuos location.