Photography: Between questions and confusion and answeres

[Tareq]

Hey all,

Sorry to start this topic and sorry if it is there somewhere, also forgive me if it is a rude or little offensive topic, but really i would like to add something of what i think about this forum.

Every time when new members are registering here, and also every time when new products in photography are released by companies then a lot of question occur to the surface, and really many times we see that many questions has been asked and answered before but some members really don't try to search.

Let's go in details, when someone post a thread asking about best camera for sports, and sometimes he doesn't say much, then many posts will tell him, go with 1D series, what is your budget, 1D is great but old, 1D3 is newer and better high ISO, now 1D4 is out,....etc. Another member asking: What is the best lens for portraits on my 5D, 10 posts will say 85L, 5 posts will go with 135L and posting some amazing shots, 2 shots will say that 70-200 is the winner, some will say go with 50 1.8 or 50 1.4 or even 85 1.8 because they are cheap. Someone ask which is good flash to use for this camera, 70% saying 580EX, some will recommend 430EX but also will say 580EX is better,...etc. Now if i am a new member for example and if my question has a lot of different answers and all are correct and ideal what we will go with or to choose what? This forum is full of shots from all Canon cameras and lenses [even some another brands of cameras and lenses] but still the questions are there and members keep answering same many questions even it has different situations but same point, there are 2 members, one has 5D and one has 40D, both don't have enough budget, and both asking for a lens for portraits, one for FF and the other for crop, it seems both are different situations because different cameras but at the end they may end with same lens, and sometimes they get different lenses due to their cameras, so which is best lens for portraits? is it depend on the camera here?

In my opinion is: why not make a sticky threads in each sections mentioning the different categories [or type] of Photography and mention the cameras in different lenses for each category depends on their performances/features and prices, so anyone can check which gear he can go with without asking questions [i hope this will help new members mostly], Also i hope if there are threads talking about some problems or issues occurring on the gear we use, so in all cases i can go to those sticky threads on the top of each forum or section and can find what i look for, when there is something unavailable then i may ask a question, really funny when someone ask something then some members reply with links for another threads for same question or saying that google is they friend or helper or post a link for a word in the question referring to that gear in the question found somewhere else, i don't know, is it good to keep this forum going on and on with lots of questions, sometimes one can get confused if he find at least 10 threads about his question and some of those threads has more than 100 posts, it is painful to search in each forum to read it all or most of it if there is no direct answer or the answer is somewhere between the posts, or is it healthy to keep this forum full and grwoing with questions? some members really their most posts are either questions or answers and less photos, shouldn't we try to have a way to make less posts asking about gear or this is endless as many will say for sure?

Which is better, 5D or 1DIII or 5D2 or 1D4 for High ISO? Which is faster, 1D2 or 1D2N or 7D? 1DIII or 1D4?
My budget is $$$ should i go with 8D or 1D6?
I have 600D, is EF-s 15-50 f2 IS is better or EF 16-80 f4L? All those gear have amazing samples results and reviewed already but people still keep asking....


Best Regards,
Tareq

[snyderman]

Typical of ANY subject-specific forum:

Which is the best <insert gadget>? = "It depends."

Which is best for <insert application> = "This is what I have and use."

It's all the same whether the focus of the forum is power tools, guitar gear, cooking or photography.

And given the vast amount of information available here, I remember being quite overwhelmed with the size of this place, let alone trying to find an answer without help. And I tried!!!

Thankfully, the kind membership here are patient when questions are asked over and over by new members and sometimes by those who should know better!

Now, back to your point. Cataloging of many FAQs exists today. Upon signing up as a POTN member, directions on how to use this feature along with links to a couple of the more widely relevant FAQ sections might help.

Been there, asked the questions and understand your point. Will the questions to which answers exist go away? No. Internet has shortened the patience of many. It's easier for them to ASK someone than to seek out information and do the research.

dave

[Tareq]

Typical of ANY subject-specific forum:

Which is the best <insert gadget>? = "It depends."

Which is best for <insert application> = "This is what I have and use."

It's all the same whether the focus of the forum is power tools, guitar gear, cooking or photography.

And given the vast amount of information available here, I remember being quite overwhelmed with the size of this place, let alone trying to find an answer without help. And I tried!!!

Thankfully, the kind membership here are patient when questions are asked over and over by new members and sometimes by those who should know better!

Now, back to your point. Cataloging of many FAQs exists today. Upon signing up as a POTN member, directions on how to use this feature along with links to a couple of the more widely relevant FAQ sections might help.

Been there, asked the questions and understand your point. Will the questions to which answers exist go away? No. Internet has shortened the patience of many. It's easier for them to ASK someone than to seek out information and do the research.

dave

And i am wondering that some members when asking they said: Oh i used search tool or i searched about my question but no much worth results i found" so i dunno what they mean by that, are they asking about something no one know about it so that they didn't find the answer by searching?!!!

Anyway, i know this is in all forums and i just wanted to do some kind of control even not that much, to do our best for finding a kind of solution or control is better than do nothing, and i am sure many here did that but i will do even it is done, and within 5 years now in this forum i would like to see it getting better and better which is now already, but sometimes i see myself that it is going like randomly and over the limits.

Thanks Dave!!!

[breal101]

Tareq, I do agree with you there has to be something wrong with the search option or something wrong with the people who ask theses questions. I don't know which is true. Maybe a FAQ section could help. If new members were pointed there when they join, a lot of questions could be avoided.

EDIT: OOPS, there is a FAQ section, maybe some more threads could be added to that. RAW vs. Jpeg comes to mind.

[Tareq]

Tareq, I do agree with you there has to be something wrong with the search option or something wrong with the people who ask theses questions. I don't know which is true. Maybe a FAQ section could help. If new members were pointed there when they join, a lot of questions could be avoided.

Exactly, this is my point that i was talking about.

[krb]

The problem is that many people suck at the internet. The are not accustomed to looking for FAQs and their search-fu is very weak. You cannot deny them access to the web and in many cases the become defensive or even indignant when given correction.

It has nothing to do with potn because I see it on every forum I've ever been on. And we're talking about a lot them, going back to Usenet and even pre-internet bbs systems.

[Quizzical_Squirrel]

I agree but if there are too many stickies the forums will become static and lose their energy and traffic. There's definitely a balance to be found between removing repetition and killing the life of the forum.

Few of us will want to log on to look at a forum that doesn't seem to change much and we may not be so inclined to answer a thread that has 639 replies already and only the most determined reader will make it through all the replies especially with the inevitable diversions within a long thread.

Speaking only for myself because I've haven't been here long, it's both the quantity (sort of 'freshness') as well as the quality of threads that keeps me coming back.
Maybe other feel differently though?

[Tareq]

In fact this is the only forum that i log in everyday and the first one to ask questions about blah blah blah unless it is about something not POTN thing, for example, MF or LF i can go another place, for Nikon if i have also another forum, but for Canon and lighting this forum is always #1.

Another issue is that when someone asking a question it happens that some members going off-topic, i prefer to raise the quality of replies or answers is to keep more pointed for the OP question and if necessary to go off-topic no problem but if needed and not too much.

[Trevor04GT]

I agree here. All forums are like this. People just usually shout out what they own as being the best. A few days ago I saw a thread and a guy asked about budget lenses, and someone recommended an 85L lol.

[DStanic]

In regards to FAQs on this forum, I think there are already ALOT to sort through. They are great and have alot of information, but can be extremely overwhelming- especially when a FAQ thread is a compilation of links to other threads. Next thing you know, you have 5 windows open trying to absorb it all.

There is just so much information wtih different variables. Camera bodies are great example. You have xx amount of main factors to consider- price, build quality, size/weight, controls, features, sensor size (which can effect DOF and FL of a lens), ISO performance, AF speed (FPS) and accuracy, age (if there is any warranty left). This makes every Canon body from the Rebels, xxD, 5D, 1D and 1Ds series all different and therefore choosing the perfect "fit" can be very difficult!

To the OP- I think this forum is great, the only things that could be better are an improved search funtion (it's far from perfect) and "managing" the FAQs without making too many of them.

[breal101]

I agree about the search function, it hasn't always worked that well for me even when searching for a thread I knew was there and using terms actually contained in the thread when I finally found it by searching for it the old fashioned way, page by page. The stickies don't seem to work very well, at least you would think so by the number of threads that could have been answered by them. I don't mind the repetitive threads all that much, we get new members all the time and maybe they're inevitable.

[Tareq]

In regards to FAQs on this forum, I think there are already ALOT to sort through. They are great and have alot of information, but can be extremely overwhelming- especially when a FAQ thread is a compilation of links to other threads. Next thing you know, you have 5 windows open trying to absorb it all.

There is just so much information wtih different variables. Camera bodies are great example. You have xx amount of main factors to consider- price, build quality, size/weight, controls, features, sensor size (which can effect DOF and FL of a lens), ISO performance, AF speed (FPS) and accuracy, age (if there is any warranty left). This makes every Canon body from the Rebels, xxD, 5D, 1D and 1Ds series all different and therefore choosing the perfect "fit" can be very difficult!

To the OP- I think this forum is great, the only things that could be better are an improved search funtion (it's far from perfect) and "managing" the FAQs without making too many of them.

Perfect, i started this thread to have some solutions or suggestions as you did already, so why not making this with an effort to make it?!!!

Thanks!

[nphsbuckeye]

Hey all,

Sorry to start this topic and sorry if it is there somewhere, also forgive me if it is a rude or little offensive topic, but really i would like to add something of what i think about this forum.

Every time when new members are registering here, and also every time when new products in photography are released by companies then a lot of question occur to the surface, and really many times we see that many questions has been asked and answered before but some members really don't try to search.

Let's go in details, when someone post a thread asking about best camera for sports, and sometimes he doesn't say much, then many posts will tell him, go with 1D series, what is your budget, 1D is great but old, 1D3 is newer and better high ISO, now 1D4 is out,....etc. Another member asking: What is the best lens for portraits on my 5D, 10 posts will say 85L, 5 posts will go with 135L and posting some amazing shots, 2 shots will say that 70-200 is the winner, some will say go with 50 1.8 or 50 1.4 or even 85 1.8 because they are cheap. Someone ask which is good flash to use for this camera, 70% saying 580EX, some will recommend 430EX but also will say 580EX is better,...etc. Now if i am a new member for example and if my question has a lot of different answers and all are correct and ideal what we will go with or to choose what? This forum is full of shots from all Canon cameras and lenses [even some another brands of cameras and lenses] but still the questions are there and members keep answering same many questions even it has different situations but same point, there are 2 members, one has 5D and one has 40D, both don't have enough budget, and both asking for a lens for portraits, one for FF and the other for crop, it seems both are different situations because different cameras but at the end they may end with same lens, and sometimes they get different lenses due to their cameras, so which is best lens for portraits? is it depend on the camera here?

In my opinion is: why not make a sticky threads in each sections mentioning the different categories [or type] of Photography and mention the cameras in different lenses for each category depends on their performances/features and prices, so anyone can check which gear he can go with without asking questions [i hope this will help new members mostly], Also i hope if there are threads talking about some problems or issues occurring on the gear we use, so in all cases i can go to those sticky threads on the top of each forum or section and can find what i look for, when there is something unavailable then i may ask a question, really funny when someone ask something then some members reply with links for another threads for same question or saying that google is they friend or helper or post a link for a word in the question referring to that gear in the question found somewhere else, i don't know, is it good to keep this forum going on and on with lots of questions, sometimes one can get confused if he find at least 10 threads about his question and some of those threads has more than 100 posts, it is painful to search in each forum to read it all or most of it if there is no direct answer or the answer is somewhere between the posts, or is it healthy to keep this forum full and grwoing with questions? some members really their most posts are either questions or answers and less photos, shouldn't we try to have a way to make less posts asking about gear or this is endless as many will say for sure?

Which is better, 5D or 1DIII or 5D2 or 1D4 for High ISO? Which is faster, 1D2 or 1D2N or 7D? 1DIII or 1D4?
My budget is $$$ should i go with 8D or 1D6?
I have 600D, is EF-s 15-50 f2 IS is better or EF 16-80 f4L? All those gear have amazing samples results and reviewed already but people still keep asking....


Best Regards,
Tareq
Bravo.

[Tareq]

Bravo.

Thanks! ;)

[nicksan]

One of the reason that makes this place great is the patience and understanding from most of its members. We don't have too many of the snappy members that plague other forums. Oh yes, we do have some, but we aren't littered with them.

Tareq, you have to take the good with the bad. We've all been there. I certainly have. I try to use the search function as much as possible, but sometimes there's just no substitute for a quick answer.

Though I like your idea about Sticky's, there's nothing stopping members from ignoring them too.

What I don't want happen is more policing to a point where you are afraid to express your opinion in a reasonably free fashion.

[Tareq]

One of the reason that makes this place great is the patience and understanding from most of its members. We don't have too many of the snappy members that plague other forums. Oh yes, we do have some, but we aren't littered with them.

Tareq, you have to take the good with the bad. We've all been there. I certainly have. I try to use the search function as much as possible, but sometimes there's just no substitute for a quick answer.

Though I like your idea about Sticky's, there's nothing stopping members from ignoring them too.

What I don't want happen is more policing to a point where you are afraid to express your opinion in a reasonably free fashion.

What to do mate, i think it will still go on!!!

In all cases, this thread is much better than many "Dead" threads, some sections there the last post is maybe 1 week ago, 1 month, 5 months,...etc.

[ELT_Photo]

I have to agree with nicksan - the true value of this forum is the many nice, helpful
people who populate it. The new members should feel free to ask the "obvious" questions,
so they may learn from the collective experience of the group. I've been shooting for 35+
years and still find new and useful info on this forum regularly - none of us knows all,
but collectively we have a huge knowledge base to draw from.

Regards,
Eric

[DStanic]

Perfect, i started this thread to have some solutions or suggestions as you did already, so why not making this with an effort to make it?!!!

Thanks!

I don't really agree with you though...

From your first post it seems as though you want to have lots of stickies and FAQs covering just about anything and everything. I don't believe this would work good, and is really not the purpose of a forum aka message board. FAQs with general information on lenses and cameras is fine, but for beginners there is SO MUCH to understand with DSLRs, they really do need help from real people. It's the same with buying a vehicle, or buying a house. There are car salesmen and real estate agents to guide in finding the right product.

The current FAQs are great, but as with anything they can be improved and have stuff added as long as they do not become any more cluttered and confusing then they already may be.

[krb]

Adding more FAQs and stickies to this forum is the wrong answer. It doesn't work well here and I've never seen it work well anywhere else.

If you want an encyclopedia then create a wikipedia-type site about Canon SLRs. I've considered doing exactly that but simply do not have the time to set up and manage something like that. If anybody wants to take that idea and run with it then more power to you.

[Mark_Cohran]

Hundreds of questions get asked here every day where the answers are already in the stickies and the general policy is to limit the number of stickies to a minimum - so more stickies aren't the answer. Most new members don't read them anyway based on what I've seen in my years on the forum.

[breal101]

Hundreds of questions get asked here every day where the answers are already in the stickies and the general policy is to limit the number of stickies to a minimum - so more stickies aren't the answer. Most new members don't read them anyway based on what I've seen in my years on the forum.


I agree with that, the stickies seem to be ignored by new members and old, I'll confess to ignoring a lot of them myself. What I was suggesting was moving representative threads such as RAW vs JPEG, 24-70 vs 24-105, etc. and possibly the existing stickies to the FAQ section. It probably won't help either but it would clean up the first page of every sub forum.

[Tareq]

I didn't say you should fill the forum with stickies or FAQ's but we should try to find a way to minimize those growing up rapidly and scary questions which is like people can see the answers but they like to ask again and again mostly from new members, encyclopedia or a reference is a solution and i like this idea but i know it is not a final or only solution, and it will take time as well, so if many members give opinions and suggestions and so, we may end up with something to help this forum, we shouldn't think about one solution and there is no one only solution anyway, but we try to clean up a bit many threads that are unnecessary even mine, i ask many questions sometimes because others did and no control.

at least if we want to have less stickies, then we can create a sticky forum or thread putting all links about popular gear in it, each in its section, for example, in lens section, we put one sticky with links about 24-70, 70-200 versions, EF and EF-s performances, crop bodies lenses list vs. FF/1.3x bodies lenses list,...etc. So by this any question about those lenses one can go to this sticky and choose a link to a lens to read about it, and this sticky is updated regularly, we can keep some threads out of this sticky and not necessary to move all the threads to this sticky, at least this will make it less repeated threads and maybe better something.

I saw in one forum that they have a special section they called "Oldies or Archive", and there we an find many old and some popular answered threads, they do that to clean up a bit the forum.

[DAMphyne]

I've been here awhile and I don't read the stickies.
I'm also in the club that thinks the "Search" function sucks, besides a newbie doesn't know what to look for most the time anyway.
If someone asks, What is an F-stop, why not tell them instead of telling them to do a search.
Sooner or later, they'll get it figured out and then they can repeat the mantra..."Do A Search"

[pcunite]

Tareq,
Great thought... the real problem? People (mostly those who don't shoot professionally) like to answer the questions... that's right... they love telling people what equipment they should buy because it gives them a chance to sound important and exonerates their own gear purchases/preferences.

I tried bringing up a similar topic in the wedding forum only to be ridiculed by a good percentage of the resident hacks. I was just wanting to make POTN a better place but the sad reality is that the reason POTN is so good is because of the moderators... not the common posters.

I have come to see the light that the vast majority here are just enthusiasts... sorta like the guys who build their own cars in their garage... they just love talking about the gear and recommending this and that...

It is the gear on this forum that makes people feel special... not the pictures they create with them. With the excellent moderators here it makes this all run pretty smoothly but trying to step outside of this paradigm I don't think is possible without a concentrated effort to become more professionally orientated and then it would not be POTN I guess.

[Mike]

Tareq,
Great thought... the real problem? People (mostly those who don't shoot professionally) like to answer the questions... that's right... they love telling people what equipment they should buy because it gives them a chance to sound important and exonerates their own gear purchases/preferences.

So someone who may have 20+ years experience in photography but never earned any money from it cannot have a say because he is not a "pro"? Is that what you are saying? :confused:



I tried bringing up a similar topic in the wedding forum only to be ridiculed by a good percentage of the resident hacks. I was just wanting to make POTN a better place but the sad reality is that the reason POTN is so good is because of the moderators... not the common posters.

POTN is a very good place because of the common posters. If it was all mods and no members it would be pretty dull (no offence to the mods!)

This is a forum for photographers of all ages and experience levels and that is why it has become such a good community. I don't discount or discredit anyone's opinions or advice just because they have few posts or only just got their camera last week but I don't much care for elitist attitudes.



I have come to see the light that the vast majority here are just enthusiasts... sorta like the guys who build their own cars in their garage... they just love talking about the gear and recommending this and that...

It is the gear on this forum that makes people feel special... not the pictures they create with them. With the excellent moderators here it makes this all run pretty smoothly but trying to step outside of this paradigm I don't think is possible without a concentrated effort to become more professionally orientated and then it would not be POTN I guess.
Do you ever look at the share forums? There are a lot of excellent images in there that I am very grateful for people spending their time to share. The gear forums are but a small part of this community and yes, people like to talk about what they might be buying - but that's part of the fun of it.

[pcunite]

Mike,
Your totally right, I was just speaking about a very specific issue. The enthusiast members here on POTN make it fun. Take care.

[Tareq]

Enjoy all, whether it is about photos or about gear no problem, let all feel free to do whatever and share and have fun!!!

[[Hyuni]]

wait... so WHAT is best for sports photography and WHAT's the best lens for portraiture? As for my budget, it's enough, but not too much... :lol:

If you really want to inform the POTN users without having countless threads of the same subject, you should create a study list and have a quiz that unlocks 'reply' or 'post new thread' button on the POTN page once s/he has passed.
That way everyone will have the 'same' foundational understanding before they start using this forum.

Sounds like a lot of work? Well then... you can just choose to ignore the ones you feel have been beaten to death before. :D

btw, love your landscape photos in the 16-35L sample photo thread!

[Tareq]

;9547655']wait... so WHAT is best for sports photography and WHAT's the best lens for portraiture? As for my budget, it's enough, but not too much... :lol:

If you really want to inform the POTN users without having countless threads of the same subject, you should create a study list and have a quiz that unlocks 'reply' or 'post new thread' button on the POTN page once s/he has passed.
That way everyone will have the 'same' foundational understanding before they start using this forum.

Sounds like a lot of work? Well then... you can just choose to ignore the ones you feel have been beaten to death before. :D

btw, love your landscape photos in the 16-35L sample photo thread!

Not sure that last sentence is about me, if so then thank you very much.

[oaktree]

Blame the internet for feeding people's want for instant gratification: In this case, an answer to their questions. In the "old" days, you had to really make an effort to search for answers. Now, just ask a question in a forum and you'll get many answers. Your only task is to decided which answer is "good". Eventually, you get to know who to trust.

Do I like this forum as is? You bet!! The controlled chaos is great. Although many questions are repeated (as are many answers), coming from different people both questions and answers are slightly different and, probably, also changes with time. Questions/answers about the 85/1.8 were probably slightly different before and after the 135/2L came on the scene. My answer to a question like, "Is it the camera or the photographer" changes the more I get into photography.

The controlled chaos of this forum supports this evolution of questions and answers. Newbies with the "same" questions are great because they remind me of the same combination of enthusiasm and fear I had when I first started looking into POTN.

[elysium]

Tareq,
Great thought... the real problem? People (mostly those who don't shoot professionally) like to answer the questions... that's right... they love telling people what equipment they should buy because it gives them a chance to sound important and exonerates their own gear purchases/preferences.

I tried bringing up a similar topic in the wedding forum only to be ridiculed by a good percentage of the resident hacks. I was just wanting to make POTN a better place but the sad reality is that the reason POTN is so good is because of the moderators... not the common posters.

I have come to see the light that the vast majority here are just enthusiasts... sorta like the guys who build their own cars in their garage... they just love talking about the gear and recommending this and that...

It is the gear on this forum that makes people feel special... not the pictures they create with them. With the excellent moderators here it makes this all run pretty smoothly but trying to step outside of this paradigm I don't think is possible without a concentrated effort to become more professionally orientated and then it would not be POTN I guess.

If we are speaking about gear, in your previous topic, you totally slated a photographer because he had two Rebel XT's....figure that one out.

[pcunite]

If we are speaking about gear, in your previous topic, you totally slated a photographer because he had two Rebel XT's....figure that one out.

Indeed I did, the XT is the last Canon camera that had standard precision on all AF points... it should not be used for wedding work, the image quality is great however. After that camera Canon started putting high precision in the center for all bodies. I thought others knew this but maybe they don't. Take care.