HELP ! Big decision to take...

[Rob612]

OK folks here is my very serious problem.

Preamble: here L lens are awfully expensive.

This morning I stopped at my usual camera shop (actually I buy only from them, unless there is something that I cannot find, I like the possibility to try, to give back stuff etc) for some stupid stuff and the guy told me that he had a very interesting opportunity. An used - almost perfect conditions except some scratches on the body - 600mm f/4, NON IS version for 3.200 EUR (about 3.900 USD). Keep in mind that here the cheapest I've found new, even searching on the net (but I am not leaning towards an onlins shopping for such objects for obvious reasons, I want a shop to complain at first if there is something wrong) were abou 8.600 EUR (10,400 USD) for the IS version, it seems that the non IS is not sold anymore (even BH does not carry it).

The price is quite interesting and eventually I can pay it the way I prefer, in installments with no interest, of course in a few monts not years.

Financially it would be a big effort, due to all the recent acquisitions but probably it can be done, I am making calculations about it.

Now, I love bird photography and other types of photo that actually need long lenses. And a 600 f/4 IS a very strong temptation, I know that I would *never* buy one new, for obvious reasons.

So the pros are clear. Anothe one that adds up (useless from a practical point of view, but we all need some gratification) is that I would really like to add that monster to my lens collection.

The cons:

I do not have too much time to travel so going for bird photography with the big one will be a problem, actually I think that you want to carry it along for very special sessions, and I do not have places close to home where such session can happen, so there will always be a travel involved. This means time, and I do not have too much of it.

Other con I see is that sometimes I am kind of lazy (I know, this is opposite to nture photography) and the idea of carrying such a big lens, the inevitable big tripod etc somehows turns me a little down. But I know that once I get used to the idea I won't be scared anymore.

So please, talk me out of this :) Otherwise I'm going to get it and I know that is nto the really right thing to do. But the temptation is VERY strong. My secret hope is that for when I have made up my mind the thind has been sold :)

[CyberDyneSystems]

I'd say it is little more than a whim..
Unless birding is a strong passion.. then a lens like this is serious overkill.

Though the price is very very nice... currently you have no "birding lens" in your collection. This is an odd way to start and find out if you will ever use it.

I think you would do much better with a 400mm f/5.6L... in other words a lens you can readily and easily bring with you.

[Belmondo]

You'll get no help from me...... :lol:

Buy it. If you're shooting birds, chances are you'll be working off a tripod, so the lack of IS shouldn't be that big of a handicap. The price is very attractive. I'd probably sell the family car and get the lens.

[Rob612]

Thats what I think too... but the 500 is about 6,500 EUR, and I cannot find a price for the 400... will look for it. Your comments are absolutely reasonable, but still... I do not know which way to go :)

[Rob612]

Belmondo, I need the family car :)

[lomond]

I think you would need some serious tripod and head arrangement for that beast, Wimberley etc.
That said for 3200 Euros, around £2200 pounds........If you don't I might.
Where did you say that shop was ?

If the lens checks out OK I think it's a great price and lets face it if you don't use it enough or find it too heavy or whatever someone will take it off your hands for the same price or better.

Regards,

[Belmondo]

Belmondo, I need the family car :)

More than a 600mm lens?

Hard to believe. :confused: :lol:

[blue_max]

It sounds like you are interested because it seems to be a bargain.

Whilst that may be true, it would only be the case if you either got plenty of use out of it or could sell it easily.

If neither is likely to be the case – it 'aint no bargain!

Walk away.

Graham

[malcolmx]

i think need and want should be ignored as life is not a rehersal, however you will never be able to use this lens without a tripod if you add a converter it will need to be in seriously bright light or 3200 iso think why these lenses are not sold and why they are superceeded is have a better motor system and faster focus but you may be able to sell it later . ask a few other dealers what they would give now for that lens you may get some interesting feed back
good luck any way

[Rob612]

It seems to me that everybody here is helping me the other way with the exception of CDS ;)

[condyk]

Nice idea ... but you know yourself as a person and what you like to do in your spare time. The past is a good indicator.

Will you REALLY carry this around with all the required gear through woodland, over hills, or even the 500m from the carpark to the bird hide. If yes, sell your 70-200mm and get it. If no, put it out of your mind and concentrate of what you know you will do for your hobby.

The ONE reason I don't really do birds is I am lazy. Accept yourself ... turn on the TV, order Pizza and get fat :lol: :lol:

[lomond]

i think need and want should be ignored as life is not a rehersal, however you will never be able to use this lens without a tripod if you add a converter it will need to be in seriously bright light or 3200 iso think why these lenses are not sold and why they are superceeded is have a better motor system and faster focus but you may be able to sell it later . ask a few other dealers what they would give now for that lens you may get some interesting feed back
good luck any way


I agree he will need a tripod and a bloody good one at that not to mention the head but it's f4 and with the 1.4TC f5.6 so where does the 3200 ISO come in. :?

[WepWaWep]

You're gonna hate me but here it goes. The lens is a monster and will require quite a commitment, it shall become your mistress if you wish to do justice to owning such a serious and specialized piece of glass. Only the best tripod will carry the weight and balance it properly. You will be getting up at the crack of dawn and driving to only the best areas after spending days on end previewing them and planning extensive shoots to make this a worthwhile purchase. If it gathers dust, it shall be a sin, it deserves to be used, constantly.

Your family will not recognize you after a while but will look with a fond resignation at the photos you take with the lens. Statements like, " Do you remember when..." will become common as you will be out in the field with your new love.

Day after day and moment by moment you will talk to yourself, out-loud and in public, about what technique work best under what conditions. Friends shall flee from you as you start asking them about migration patterns instead of their daily lives. You will hears whispers of rare birds sighted in the general area, say with in a 500 mile radius, and shall pack the car and scour the country side looking to get that "money shot" when no one else can.

Even your posture will change, you'll assume a position as if you're always looking through that lens. All your other lenses will get jealous, obsession shall be thy name.

Hey, wait! Sounds like a lot of fun to me!!!

[Rob612]

I'm not going to hate anybody here ;) But I think that I'm going to talk with Mrs Rob about this. We do not have problems in hobby spending, we do not ask permission each other usually and she's happy if I am, no matter (relatively) the cost. But this time I think that talking it out together makes sense.

[SkipD]

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is that, if this lens is actually in really good condition and very much worth the asking price you might want to go ahead and buy it knowing that you could sell it for what you paid for it if you determine later that it isn't what you want. On the other hand, if you don't buy it you might be kicking your backside later.

I would absolutely love to have such a lens, as the backyard wildlife doesn't like to come in close when I'm outside with the funny looking hardware.

[lomond]

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is that, if this lens is actually in really good condition and very much worth the asking price you might want to go ahead and buy it knowing that you could sell it for what you paid for it if you determine later that it isn't what you want.


I thought I did. :?

[Belmondo]

One point to consider, Rob....

At that price, you will have no problem recouping your investment should you come to the conclusion that it was a mistake. There are not many things you can buy for which that can be said. In fact, there's good potential for profit at this price.

[Rob612]

I am thinking also about buying, using and eventually reselling. As a matter of fact, the market here is not so big so reselling the 600 can become a problem. Not too much amateurs even get to the 70-200 IS, go figure a so specialized lens... But I have also to ask other retailers and see what the offer could be. I have some time to work this out. Not much, but some.

[WepWaWep]

On a serious note(I'm usually a really bad devil's advocate) I noticed that your profile says you live in Rome. If memory serves me correctly, you have a large starling population there. With the starlings are also the falcons that prey on them. I remember seeing a fantastic video on the TV about this a while back. The Videographer got some incredible shots of the falcons in action preying on the starlings as they started the roost near sunset. That lens would be worth the investment to me for that reason alone. I would find the time and effort of capturing a falcon in flight taking prey worth every moment spent doing so, that would be incredible.

We too have a large city population of falcons here in Minneapolis and this is one of the shoots I need to plan for this summer. But my backdrop will pale in comparison to the splendor of the Eternal City!

[Rob612]

True, starling are actually a huge problem here due to the facts that guano creates a lot of problems with the traffic. Since those animals tend to concentrate on trees that are right above high traffic streets, the guano fells on the ground and everytime it rains convert the asphalt in... well basically in soap !!!! Lots of accidents happens for this.

And yes, there are falcons that go hunting but that rarely happens in the city. More often it happens out of town, the starlings tend do get back downtown at night for keeping themselves warm.

But undoubtfully you've got a point :)

Edit to add... just noticed that I have only 50 posts left to pass the 1K barrier... wow, maybe I should work more... :)

[etaf]

i have been there too, I think it was a zoom L lens - and when I actually looked close I found out that it was not the version I had compared it too, they had a low aperture version F4 and a F2.8 and I thought it was the F2.8 or something like that, anyway jessops {who are a very large chain of camera shops in UK - and I buy all my stuff from them} would only offer a 1/4 of the 2nd value - so that was easily sorted for me.
make sure it is the right version
And with a 20D 1.6x factor a 600mm lens 600x1.6 =960mm thats some lens - so IS gives two stops so 1/250th might be possible if you could hold it.
I think its a tripod lens end of story and therefor IS is not needed {does not work on a tripod}
so what other lens are you thinking of getting and if you had 3,200 euro in your hands what would you go out and buy.

good luck with the decision

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/lens/f_lens.html
http://www.photographyreview.com/cat/lenses/35mm-primes/canon/PRD_83393_3111crx.aspx#reviews
http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon/600-is

[Pekka]

Why not sell these to partly finance the lens:

EOS 350D+BG-E3
EF-S 18-55 kit
EF 28-105
EF 90-300
EF 35-350 L USM

[Rob612]

And with a 20D 1.6x factor a 600mm lens 600x1.6 =960mm thats some lens - so IS gives two stops so 1/250th might be possible if you could hold it.


No way. At least for me, and I am in reasonably good shape, there is no way to handheld something that is more or less 50 cm long, maybe 25 cm in diameter at the large end and weight more or less 6 kg (plus the camera, of course). It would be of course AT LEAST a monopod lens (and without head, just with the mono screwed in).

I am slowly thinking about letting it go away... we'll see in the next few days.

Thanks to everybody for the comments, the suggestions (in a way or the other) and the support. These are the things that make POTN great :)

Any other idea will be always appreciated.

[Rob612]

Why not sell these to partly finance the lens:

EOS 350D+BG-E3
EF-S 18-55 kit
EF 28-105
EF 90-300
EF 35-350 L USM

Beside the 35-350 (that I really like) that combo is basically what my wife uses often, she does not like big heavy lenses, and I am not going to take it away from her. Otherwise that would be quite reasonable.

[lomond]

I am slowly thinking about letting it go away... we'll see in the next few days.


If you do decide to let it go, perhaps some other member of POTN ( close to Italy ) might like to test this lens.
Once you are certain you dont want it, a link to the seller might be helpful.

Regards,

[Michaelmjc]

I say get it, that thing is a monster... That is 960mm, thats huge!

I would get it now then work on paying it back, its a great deal.

[MDJAK]

How does one go about checking out such a monster to make sure it's not been dropped, etc? I would think that needs some real checking out. Caveat Emptor.

[Chazs]

Think about how many airline tickets you can buy for 3.200 EUR. It'll get you to some awesome photo-opportunity places.

[blue_max]

If you get it, it's probably worth getting a battery grip. It will however, probably rip out the lens mount, so use with caution!

It's a circus lens – don't let these guys pursuade you otherwise :lol:

Graham

[massi.ra]

If you do decide to let it go, perhaps some other member of POTN ( close to Italy ) might like to test this lens.


I wish I could mate... but I also need the 3200 EUR Rob has! ;)

[Rob612]

How does one go about checking out such a monster to make sure it's not been dropped, etc? I would think that needs some real checking out. Caveat Emptor.

Actually this would have been my next question, in case I opt for getting it. I was thinking about taking it ouside somewhere on a big tripod and make some series in various conditions (distance/focus/aperture etc).

Any suggestion ?

The rule trick for such a monster I'm afraid would be unpractical, I should put the thing across the road :)

BTW, still thinking about it.

[Rob612]

I wish I could mate... but I also need the 3200 EUR Rob has! ;)

If I opt for letting it go, that should probably be the best thing to do, AND if a good friend of mine to whom I passed the information and is going trough my same questioning ( he does not speak English, so, he does not have the comfort of you POTN friends) decides to pass, I'll be glad to help any member interested in getting the thing, including some tests.

[Rob612]

I have to add that at this point I am anyway sold to a new lens. If its not the monster I have only two choices left that I really want: either the 24-70 2.8 L or the 100-400 IS (giving back the 35-350, at that point).

I suspect that it has something to do with the L fever :)

[etaf]

well you have answered it - if you want those two lens I'm sure you will get a lot more use from them then a 600 and the 400 with your 2x and according to canon it works on tha lens so will give you your 800 although not a great aperture but + the flexibility of 200 - 800

[Rob612]

well you have answered it - if you want those two lens I'm sure you will get a lot more use from them then a 600 and the 400 with your 2x and according to canon it works on tha lens so will give you your 800 although not a great aperture but + the flexibility of 200 - 800

You are probably right. The charm of such a monster is probably a factor that should not be considered. Gotta think about it. Its also going to me WAAAAYY cheaper. In other words, with the same amount, I can probably get both of them and have some extra money... eems reasonable.

[massi.ra]

well you have answered it - if you want those two lens I'm sure you will get a lot more use from them then a 600 and the 400 with your 2x and according to canon it works on tha lens so will give you your 800 although not a great aperture but + the flexibility of 200 - 800

Agree.
That could be the most reasonable thing to do; I tried twice the 100-400 IS: nice lens indeed and lot lighter than your BIG choice "up there".
Anyway ... it's up to you by the end; hope you'll choose what it makes you happier.

Ciao!

[davepgh1]

People try and sell me stuff all the time, my first test is did I need it yesterday, if not I pass. The second test, is can I get my money back after it has collected enough dust to prove it didn't pass my first test. You don't say what type of photos you enjoy taking, I don't think a lens is going to change what you enjoy, and I don't get the sence your in this for the money. Leave youself penty of outs.

[Rob612]

I am almost sold on passing over. I just need another little push... :)

[aam1234]

A 100-400 with a T/C will do almost the same but a lot cheaper. Just hit the "pass" button Rob.

[tonytony]

Ah Robbe', lascia perde...
(Rob, I wouldn't spend $4000 for a lens that I am not going to use very often... let's face it, if you live in the average Italian city, you don't have a broad usage for your "monster")

Cheers,
Tony

[Rob612]

OK folks, I'm sold. I must admit that the italian push from tonytony helped :)

Called my friend and told him I'm not going to get it. He probably will. If he doesn't and if somebody here is interested I'll be glad to help anybody in the transaction.

[Rob612]

Ah Robbe', lascia perde...
(Rob, I wouldn't spend $4000 for a lens that I am not going to use very often... let's face it, if you live in the average Italian city, you don't have a broad usage for your "monster")

Cheers,
Tony

Yes that is the major backdraft. To use such thing here either I shoot sports (and I don't, at least not often) or basically birds/wildlife. Actually I'll do this. But sure enough there is no way to use it in town anyway I'll have to drive around a lot. Thats the major issue.

Anyway, its gone. Think I'm going to order the 100-400 AND the 24-70 :)

[blue_max]

I am almost sold on passing over. I just need another little push... :)

Good grief man, what will it take! Draw the money out in cash and count it (it will take a while!). Then put it in a box and leave it there for a year. Then come back for the next instruction...

Graham

[Rob612]

Good grief man, what will it take! Draw the money out in cash and count it (it will take a while!). Then put it in a box and leave it there for a year. Then come back for the next instruction...

Graham



:D :D :D

[kram]

Think you owe everyone in this thread something for having saved you a decent chunk of change :)

[Rob612]

Think you owe everyone in this thread something for having saved you a decent chunk of change :)

Yes, I actually do. I have always said that every POTN member that passes over here is welcome for a cold one. Now, those are summed up to two of 'em :)