Computer choices - recommendations

[drandy1]

Looks like my 5-year old PC has begun to "pine for those fjords" and I therefore need to plan for a replacement. A little unsure whether to go for the "obvious" (=Dell) or if there are better value PC's out there which are reliable. I am not a gamer which seems to be an important issue these days. I mainly do Photoshop work and general MS Office stuff. The main features that I know I need are Windows-based; 1Gb RAM (min.); DVD burner; DVI output; 250GB (?) hard drive. Aside from these can anyone please suggest reliable PC makes and models (don't need to be exact) capable of running Photoshop CS without stumbling. I am obviously aware of Dell but see mixed reports on some of their models. I am hoping to pay less than $1500 for the main computer unit (no monitor or keyboard needed) and want to maximise my spend without seriously jeopardising quality and reliability. Appreciate any advice.............

[etaf]

HP/Compaq alternatives
or how about build your self - you can get some great specifications cheaper and will be upgradable
you may want to consider sata drives and you want fast drives to, to help speed

[EricKonieczny]

got to Dell.com and add your own components to you budget.


I could not be happier:)

[BrandonSi]

Have you considered a Mac? If you're sticking with PC's, Dell is great, you can build to your own specs or if you look around in your area, in the yellow pages or online, I bet you can find a mom/pop PC store that'll build you what you're looking for. Might be a bit more expensive then Dell but your support is a drive away!

[chris.bailey]

I have tried self build and have gone back to using Dell. You cant normally build for what Dell charge made and you get great warranty service from them. If you can run to one of the Workstation specs they work great for photoshop.

[mapollo]

I built my own PC with no previous experience other than installing a CD-RW. It took me 10 days from having the idea to having a new working PC. I took a little advice from here and a little from a Computer Forum.

You obviously choose your own components based on what you need to use it for. It will be easier to swop out parts to upgrade if you need to later.

In the UK you could build a sweet machine for the equivalent of 1200US$ so I think in the US you would get a nice machine and still be under budget.

How did it make me feel when it was completed?. It made me feel like the new Pope did the morning after his election :).

[etaf]

in the UK you can build a much better machine then dell provides - better graphics, not intergrated and using memory, much more room for expansion later, with a powersupply that will support any expansion, you will need to buy a copy of XP but you get the OS CD and not a load of unwanted software and spyware on the PC, and a recovery partition, there are computer fairs running every week with extremly competative prices.
i have built 4 machines so far - the last one about two years ago cost me £500 for a £1800 equivalent machine.

but i suspect the US is very different as prices are so much cheaper there, also not everyone wants a self build - so as suggested also look at HP/Compaq

[EOSAddict]

Built my own recently to support a growing Rebel/PS Habit and I agree with mapollo - quite easy if you remember a few basics and v satisfying and you get exactly what you want!

In UK I reckon you can get the exact right spec for your needs much cheaper self-build. Mine is a P4 3.0G, 1024MB RAM, 250GB HDD with 19" LCD. Happy to give more details here or in PM if you wish...

[prime80]

If you're technically inclined, and know enough to be your own tech support, then building your own is the way to go. If not, then custom order a Dell. With some of the coupons that regularly circulate, you can get a really good deal on them. Just bookmark techbargains.com or slickdeals.net and wait until a coupon comes out that applies to the system you want. If you do decide to build your own, I'm sure there are several of us here who could help you spec out a system. I personally have built over 50 PCs for myself, friends and relatives, and would be glad to offer you some guidance if necessary. At the $1500 price point, you can build a better PC than you can buy, but you give up the tech support that comes with that purchased PC.

[Hellashot]

got to Dell.com and add your own components to you budget.


I could not be happier:)

Dell is usually expensive. You end up paying for their onsite warranties. Their "standard" packages are usually well priced, but they really get you when you want to add ram, bigger hard drive, or video card/upgrade. Many new computers now come with video built into the motherboard - which is not capable of 3D gaming or any serious graphic applications.

[Scottes]

I self-built for years, and then bought the last 7 computers from Dell. Pretty darn good overall- good value, very good machines, excellent support. (Note that I don't buy the cheapies - 3 were Dimension and 4 were Workstations, all Intel, but no Celeron/etc)

However, I've been drooling over an AlienWare for the next system....

[mdm]

If you were going to build it yourself you wouldn't have made this post. If I were you I'd go with a dell which I think you could get a killer machine (- gamers video card) for under a 1,000 U.S. The second option would be a hp computer. Same thing as dell but I'd rank dell over hp. It may be a little less money. If you had a friend close by he could get the parts and have a Super Killer machine for around 600 with dvd burner and good video and plenty of ram.

[lostdoggy]

Go with dell and use eCoupons from techbargain.com or similar. If you have an urge to troubleshoot if the system don't startup then built it yourself. I could build a system in less then an hour but it takes days for it to work right.

[chtgrubbs]

I would look at this computer: http://www.gateway.com/home/products/ret/ret_832gm.shtml
Seems to have everything you want. You could add another hard drive, Matrox video card and more RAM and still be within your budget.

[d'homme]

Im happy with my 3g 200mb hard Presario

[RAitch]

Toshiba notebooks are the only name brand computers I'd ever buy. Presario... Gateway... Compaq... they're all garbage.

I always recommend building since you can get way better parts... or just save money. I understand how that can be overwhelming for some people. Just call the computer guy in your family... that's what everybody does in mine. I'm a programmer but "since I know computers" I'm always over at somebody's house fixing their computer.

Dell is alright... we use them at work (contract). Some of the newer models had crappy parts that have been causing some serious problems and crashes. Mostly it seems like the hard drives. Although, I had the capacitors on my mother board blow and had to have about 10 of them replaced by a Dell tech. After that was working, we found my hard drive was crapped!

Also, Dell seems to be getting into the proprietary market. We noticed on the new models that there are 'special' adapters for the drives. That prevented us from just swapping my drive into another machine (which aparently wouldn't have worked anyway).
Dell used to be good about that, but now they're slipping into that market.

In the long run, it's way cheaper to build your own computer. Once you've bought all the main components once, you can get a major pc upgrade for about $400 (mobo, ram, chip). That's all you need to replace.
Then you'll start buying some extra parts and before you know it, you'll have extra power supplies, cases, motherboards, chips, drives, ram in every cranny of your house. Then you'll end up with 3 computers in your basement doing nothing... but you had the parts for them just lying around.

Build a PC if you can... I use www.NCIX.com in Canada... which is nice because they're in BC. Since I'm in Ontario, they can't charge me BC provincial tax and since they're not licensed in Ontario, they can't charge me that. Just straight up GST (7%) which means the 8% provincial tax I'm saving translates into free shipping (shipping is reasonable).
For those in the USA, I've also used www.tigerdirect.com before.

You can also buy base machines from these places that come pre built for really good prices. Since they use market products (not proprietary garbage) then it'll be easy to swap out a mother board or RAM down the road.

DON'T BUY COMPAQ, HP, GATEWAY, ACER, P-BELL, or any of that garbage!! STAY AWAY!!

[lostdoggy]

Also, Dell seems to be getting into the proprietary market. We noticed on the new models that there are 'special' adapters for the drives. That prevented us from just swapping my drive into another machine (which aparently wouldn't have worked anyway).
Dell used to be good about that, but now they're slipping into that market.

In the long run, it's way cheaper to build your own computer. Once you've bought all the main components once, you can get a major pc upgrade for about $400 (mobo, ram, chip). That's all you need to replace.
Then you'll start buying some extra parts and before you know it, you'll have extra power supplies, cases, motherboards, chips, drives, ram in every cranny of your house. Then you'll end up with 3 computers in your basement doing nothing... but you had the parts for them just lying around.



Would the Proprietary connector a SATA connector???
SATA is the replacement connector for the 80 wire IDE cable/connector. As far as I know Dell has such buying power with manufactors such as Intel that they been making custom MoBo for them.
BYOS is not for everyone especially people who don't have the time or the knowledge to troubleshoot a stuborn MoBo. I have been cornered by my friends who thought the same way you did and decided to Build one themself and end up on my door step to get it running. There really isn't any saving in BYOS and yes get to install what you want but alot of time there will be conflicts and work arounds that will drive you mad.

For general purpose PC it just don't pay. For gaming system I would agree that a BYOS will perform better then of the shelf, but it ain't gonna be cheap. I recently price out a BYOS for my self and it went way over $3000 and thats without the dual lcd monitor.

[RAitch]

I'd say building your own system that's not a gaming machine will still save you money. Plus, the motherboards on packaged systems are almost always crap. That has to be the most important part but they'll cheap out to get their profit on that part so they can still say it has a radeon 256 graphics card or whatever.

As far as the connectors, it wasn't just the communication cable or power cable. They seemed to have a bracket that fixed to the back of the drive. I know our desktop support group made some complaints because they'd have to duplicate half of thier stock to have backups. It wasn't just the drive though. They seem to be getting into the whole daughter-board scene which drives me nuts. Also, I don't know how many machines they make (even towers) that only have 1 bay. That limits what devices you can put internally.

More importantly, I don't like Dell because they're overpriced... even without on-site support.
For people that don't want to build their own and want a packaged system... I usually send them to Dell. As long as they don't buy one of those other named brands, they're probably better off.
If they want a notebook... Toshiba's the only way to fly. Unless you're an apple lover for some silly reason. Sure that's where photoshop started, but windows based machines are where the volume is. I'm not one for paying for "pretty"... but if you are, that's cool. That's why I bought a Nomad instead of an iPod. But anyway, I digress.

(I know there are some mac/apple lovers here... and I'm not bashing that. If that's your thing, go there. As far as I know, the build quality is good and most people don't have serious technical issues.)

[blue_max]

I'd say building your own system that's not a gaming machine will still save you money. Plus, the motherboards on packaged systems are almost always crap. That has to be the most important part but they'll cheap out to get their profit on that part so they can still say it has a radeon 256 graphics card or whatever.

As far as the connectors, it wasn't just the communication cable or power cable. They seemed to have a bracket that fixed to the back of the drive. I know our desktop support group made some complaints because they'd have to duplicate half of thier stock to have backups. It wasn't just the drive though. They seem to be getting into the whole daughter-board scene which drives me nuts. Also, I don't know how many machines they make (even towers) that only have 1 bay. That limits what devices you can put internally.

More importantly, I don't like Dell because they're overpriced... even without on-site support.
For people that don't want to build their own and want a packaged system... I usually send them to Dell. As long as they don't buy one of those other named brands, they're probably better off.
If they want a notebook... Toshiba's the only way to fly. Unless you're an apple lover for some silly reason. Sure that's where photoshop started, but windows based machines are where the volume is. I'm not one for paying for "pretty"... but if you are, that's cool. That's why I bought a Nomad instead of an iPod. But anyway, I digress.

(I know there are some mac/apple lovers here... and I'm not bashing that. If that's your thing, go there. As far as I know, the build quality is good and most people don't have serious technical issues.)

Whilst protesting that you are not bashing Apple, you still manage to have a dig. Dell regularly screw up on their website and you can buy things quite cheaply. I bought my pc from there and it was an excellent price. It's low end (relatively), but does the job I require of it fine (view websites I design). My main machine is an Apple and it too does everything I want of it.
It is always helpful if you know someone who can show you their system and give a little advice. I thought about building my own pc, but the research involved made it too much trouble (it was not high end remember). It's probably not too good an idea if you don't have too much idea at this stage.
If you have any friends with macs, then this may be an advantage as they will be able to help you out.
My brother has pc's and just buys another regularly when they 'go bad'. I had my last mac for over 5 years and it is still in use for graphic design.
Apple may be right for you, but hopefully you won't dismiss it before looking at it. If you choose a pc, I have no doubt that you will be equally happy.

Good luck.

Graham

[RAitch]

I wasn't digging... I was just offering my opinion while stating if mac is your thing... I'm fine with that. It's just not my thing.
I know some people with macs and it doesn't bother me... just for my purposes, mac isn't my preference.

From a builder's perspective, pcs offer much more customizability (if that's even a word).
I respect other people's opinions and don't dismiss them blindly. So don't mistake my comments for a try at turning this thread into a mac/pc battle... I'm not into that.

[jimsolt]

I was advised to buy Dell because their service was very good.
Shortly after I bought it, my HD crashed.

I called Dell. They had a repairman WITH A HARD DISK IN HIS HANDS at my house within 24 hours.

He installed it, checked it out, and departed within 1 hour of his arrival.

I can't imagine better service anywhere.

No problems since.

Jim

[blue_max]

I wasn't digging... I was just offering my opinion while stating if mac is your thing... I'm fine with that. It's just not my thing.
I know some people with macs and it doesn't bother me... just for my purposes, mac isn't my preference.

From a builder's perspective, pcs offer much more customizability (if that's even a word).
I respect other people's opinions and don't dismiss them blindly. So don't mistake my comments for a try at turning this thread into a mac/pc battle... I'm not into that.


"Unless you're an apple lover for some silly reason."

To be clear, it's the word "silly" that I took offensive to. That doesn't show any respect, whichever way you look at it.

I, for one, have gone out of my way to be even handed. There are very good reasons for going for either platforms and I have tried to outline them where possible.

If you are a 'builder' then of course, Apple will not satisfy you at all. I don't think most people that buy computers are in that category.

I have spent thousands of pounds of my own money on computers over the years and I wouldn't say I made my decisions lightly. I didn't stroll into John Lewis and buy one on a whim. In the last three months, I have bought a new mac and pc. I wonder how many people use both – it's probably not many. I use them for business, not pleasure, so feel I can comment from an informed point of view.

For most people buying a home computer, there is no reason why a mac would be a bad choice.

Graham

[RAitch]

All of this for one word... silly? Is that how this got started?
I guess apple lovers really are defensive. Sorry I hurt your feelings.
If we all reacted based on a single typed word (especially with several broken English posts) we wouldn't be able to offer our opinions and suggestions... all we'd be doing is arguing which isn't very productive since everybody would rarely agree on anything.

You even said apple won't make a builder happy... so wouldn't it be silly to go the apple route if you're going to build your own machine... which is exactly what my post was talking about?
Also, for $1500, you won't get as much of a mac as you can for a custom built pc.
Be thankful I even brought mac up as an option... since drandy was looking for a windows solution anyway.

If you have some frustrations to get out, I'll let you continue. Just know that I don't care if you want to use a TRS80, Tandy, Atari, Altair or a calculator for a computer. Just offering my recommendation for a cheap and easy pc home solution.

Most of the people I know that own apples bought them because they are trendy, look nice (especially those silver monitors), or use them for a specific task (e.g. Photoshop). In a sense, you could say they are an extension of their work.
However, all of those people also use a Windows based PC. I'm guessing most people would be surprised how many people have both.
If you're talking about a work PC, macs (apple) will work well for you (as long as the software's there of course). If all you do is surf, check email, listen to music and play with pictures, apple can be a nice clean solution in a box.


Hopefully we can come to an agreement...
- I maybe used the term 'silly' loosely
- I wasn't attacking mac lovers - use them all you want, I don't care. I just don't plan on buying one.
- We all agree you should research all of your options before acting (which is why this post was probably created)
- Include apple if your requirements don't require windows based software solutions (which I don't think was the case here)
- building a pc can be much cheaper if you do a little research or have some techie-geek to help you.
- Dell is probably the best boxed pc provider... and many people have reported great on-site support (if you pay a heafty price for it).
- Avoid other brands like Acer, Gateway, PBell and the like since they can be difficult to upgrade
- Toshiba notebooks have a reputation (quality and least repairs). If you like style, apples are also another option and are seen in several movies along side a dell. I swear whenever there's a notebook in a movie it's a Dell or an Apple.

Good luck in your choice drandy.

[blue_max]

Yes, I do agree with your final points.

Just to say I'm not a mac 'lover', just a computer user that selected a mac as my tool of choice. I am not an extremist, nor defensive. It's not them or us. I just hate stereotypes.

To be honest, there is probably less difference between a pc and mac than there has ever been.

Graham

[RAitch]

Have you noticed any differences using Photoshop with an Apple or PC?
Are they close to performing the same or does one outperform (on comparable systems of course).

I know one of my friends was going to buy one of those tiny apple boxes because he mostly just uses Photoshop and thought they looked cool.

To the credit of Apple, most serious graphics artists lean their way. Even in the magazines where they talk about Photoshop tutorials... almost all of them are shots from a mac. Of course, PS started on a mac and was ported over to the PC. That's the only/first piece of software I can think of that's done that... and I'm happy they did. Such a great program.

On a side note, I'm running Firefox with the SaferFox Expanded theme because I like the Apple-feel that it gives. Very clean and nice interface.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE FIREFOX, GET IT NOW!!
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=59

[blue_max]

Have you noticed any differences using Photoshop with an Apple or PC?
Are they close to performing the same or does one outperform (on comparable systems of course).

I know one of my friends was going to buy one of those tiny apple boxes because he mostly just uses Photoshop and thought they looked cool.

To the credit of Apple, most serious graphics artists lean their way. Even in the magazines where they talk about Photoshop tutorials... almost all of them are shots from a mac. Of course, PS started on a mac and was ported over to the PC. That's the only/first piece of software I can think of that's done that... and I'm happy they did. Such a great program.

On a side note, I'm running Firefox with the SaferFox Expanded theme because I like the Apple-feel that it gives. Very clean and nice interface.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE FIREFOX, GET IT NOW!!
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=59

Hi Again,

I don't have comparable systems to make any real comparisons. The pc seemed to be much quicker (about ten times for some filters) than the five year old mac. That was a 3gig (stripped down Pentium chip with 1gig ram). My latest 2gig dual G5 is rather quicker now, but not a fair fight. To be honest, if you're not spending your day doing it, it's not an issue. The pc was not bought to be fast – just view web pages).

Apple always came with networking built-in and that is where they scored a direct hit with the agencies. Graphics, in particular type, renders much better than on a pc and suits desk top publishing (it's true core business).

I find Internet Explorer and Safari work just fine – I have never really understood what it is that other browsers bring to the party. I have 2meg broadband and both work as fast as sites can dish out the pages.

I have to say, I didn't renew the free virus protection after the 30days free trial and had to re-install the system on the pc. The macs on the same network were unaffected, so that's a definite advantage. Another, is the fact that to add another hard drive - on a completely separate SATA circuit – it's just a case of sliding one in, the cabling is all there already and waiting. It was so much easier to link to the pc from the mac than visa versa, but I have more experience of the mac, so maybe that was down to me.

In a nutshell, a mac will not win on raw power. But it does have a few aces up it's sleeve. Gamer's however, will not be buying a mac anytime soon!

Most reasonable pc's of any flavour will be more that adequate for most people's requirements. How many people use more than 1% of their processing capacity in any one day – I wonder!

Graham

[RAitch]

New browser (FireFox):
- tabbed browsing so you can have related pages loaded in the same window. no more 12 windows loaded and forgetting which one's which
- customizable extensions and themes so you can change the appearance and functionality (adding screenshot to google searches for example)
- plus it doesn't support vb script which is how most spyware/adware/viruses seem to get loaded lately... nasty stuff since you can just execute it.

Check out that link to see why you should switch.
It's cut down my adware tremendously... I barely do scans anymore.

The filters are pretty RAM intensive. I noticed a huge speed difference when I ended up with 1GB RAM over 512MB.

You can get swappable mounts for drives in a pc... of course it'll cost you because it's not provided as-is. One of my friends had a mount for several years.

Until XP, linking machines on a network was difficult to say the least. Usually you could get it going one way but not the other (mixing OS... like ME to 2000). It's really easy now in XP but I haven't tried linking to a mac. I've heard the same complaint before though.

[blue_max]

New browser (FireFox):
- tabbed browsing so you can have related pages loaded in the same window. no more 12 windows loaded and forgetting which one's which
- customizable extensions and themes so you can change the appearance and functionality (adding screenshot to google searches for example)
- plus it doesn't support vb script which is how most spyware/adware/viruses seem to get loaded lately... nasty stuff since you can just execute it.

Check out that link to see why you should switch.
It's cut down my adware tremendously... I barely do scans anymore.

The filters are pretty RAM intensive. I noticed a huge speed difference when I ended up with 1GB RAM over 512MB.

You can get swappable mounts for drives in a pc... of course it'll cost you because it's not provided as-is. One of my friends had a mount for several years.

Until XP, linking machines on a network was difficult to say the least. Usually you could get it going one way but not the other (mixing OS... like ME to 2000). It's really easy now in XP but I haven't tried linking to a mac. I've heard the same complaint before though.

I just realised I was using Firefox on the pc – just because I was sick of the virus that hijacked Explorer. I still don't get on with the tabbed browsing – it takes too much of the screen up – I only have a 15in lcd. As I use a mac for my main machine, we can use screen grabs from the system (not via the application). My speed tests all had machines with over 1gig of ram (I add ram immediately and accept the cost as part of the machine).

I use XP on the pc. It didn't take me long to get the hang of it, though it does lack some of the elegance of OSX. I guess if I had to switch, I would not feel it was the end of the world. I guess if you have several thousand pounds of software on one platform, it may make one less than happy though!

Most of all, I don't like Mr Gates to have it all his own way! Perhaps when MS let Apple use their hardware, Apple should let MS use their Operating System – best of both worlds?

Graham

[hedphonz]

screw dell, you can get a mac with everything you need for the same price. and the best part is that you don't have to worry about reformatting ever. there are barely any faults.

[RAitch]

Why not use linux with Gimp then. Open source rocks!

Tab browsing is awesome... I always use it without thinking about it. I click the scroll wheel on a link and it loads the link into a new window. It comes in handy for this site since I can just check the new posts, scan them, middle-click on each link I want to check out which will load them all into their own tabs. Then I just click on the last one and close the tab when I'm done... Then I just continue until I run out of tabs.

[Pyromaniac]

I am not a gamer which seems to be an important issue these days. I mainly do Photoshop work and general MS Office stuff. The main features that I know I need are Windows-based; 1Gb RAM (min.); DVD burner; DVI output; 250GB (?) hard drive.

Essentially what you are talking about wanting is a gaming system, especially for Photoshop. Being a gamer and using Photoshop CS quite a bite I can say that the attributes that make a good gaming system lend themselves favorably to doing work in PS. IE fast processor, large amounts of ram, and high end video cards. Actually you might want to look at the reviews on gaming systems http://www.pcmag.com/products/0,,qn=Desktops+Gaming,00.asp such as these to get an idea of what kind of performance you want. Some of those I know go way beyond what you (or I) want to spend on a computer but you can use it as a guide in your decision.

[RAitch]

You don't need a beefy system if you're using Photoshop. I remember using photoshop 4 and waiting about 2 minutes for a filter to finish... I was happy then.
Sure, it'll be nice to have a 70MB file open and do all kinds of processing without your machine lagging at all... but that's not a necessity. Unless you're editing every image and using it all day, a lesser pc should be fine.

Out of 100 pictures, I usually pick around 10 and photoshop them for online sharing or to put in my slideshow folders.
I use my Toshiba 3GHz notebook to do all of my post processing... and it's not a gaming machine by far. I'm happy with it.

[etaf]

I use a laptop lowish spec 1.2Ghz 384MB memory 32MB graphics (not intergrated) and on my PC
its a 1700+ athlon - so about 1.4G 512MB graphics Matrox card 64MB I think
and i edit 27MB files for printing etc and they are both OK for me
sure a higher spec may work faster, but i often question the additional memory - i have notice if i have a 27mb file open the PC does not swap - I have worked with a 200MB file and it was slow

[RAitch]

Photoshop will use all the memory you have if it's available. Windows XP by itself uses quite a bit of memory.

Of course a 200 MB file will be slow. Any processing will just kill your PC since it has to save the history for every change and keep track of the layer settings so it can do the necessary calculations. Keep in mind that the size that is reported by photoshop might not necessarily reflect how much resources are required by your PC for you to be able to perform new actions and work with the image.

A 200MB file would be slow on almost all systems. I would hope those are rare cases anyway.

[blue_max]

Photoshop will use all the memory you have if it's available. Windows XP by itself uses quite a bit of memory.

Of course a 200 MB file will be slow. Any processing will just kill your PC since it has to save the history for every change and keep track of the layer settings so it can do the necessary calculations. Keep in mind that the size that is reported by photoshop might not necessarily reflect how much resources are required by your PC for you to be able to perform new actions and work with the image.

A 200MB file would be slow on almost all systems. I would hope those are rare cases anyway.

I once had to work on a 1gig file. That was fun!!! Ram is cheap (compared to the old days), so buy enough to do the job if you can afford it.

Graham

[RAitch]

Agreed. RAM has the best 'bang for the buck' factor.. buy as much as you can afford... and get quality RAM that matches your FSB speeds with the lowest latency.