destination gig, airfare/hotel upfront?

[craiglee]

i might have a destination gig. should i ask for the airfare and hotel upfront? in this situation, travel expenses exceed photography fees so if they bail on the second half of the payment then i'd be in the negative. how does that work? if travel cost $1k and photography is $100 (just an example), shouldn't i ask for the travel stuff up front?

[FlyingPhotog]

IMO, if a client is willing to travel you, they pay the freight which pretty much automatically means they're paying up front by buying the airline ticket before you go...

[Zansho]

Everything up front as far as the travel stuff goes - hotel, car, flight, and your deposit to hold the date.

This way, if they back out of the wedding, you can still take a swanky vacation later on :P.

[dovaka]

i make people pay 50% of the total or 100% of the travel costs up front. whichever is greater but definitely get at least your expenses before you commit your self to tickets and what not.

[bigjon0107]

+1 for travel costs upfront. If they pay my $1000 deposit and cancel, i just keep $1000 and really dont lose money, sure I lose business, but I am not going into the red. Now if I just booked that $500 non-refundable ticket, booked a hotel, rented a car, etc... and am losing business on top of that; you bet your butt i am going to have my actual costs covered on top the the deposit. The deposit is for my lost business potential, not for my actual costs.

[Aaagogo]

100% travel arrangements, plus whatever your deposit is.

[The Moose]

100% travel arrangements, plus whatever your deposit is.

I'm almost going to agree with this because if they're booking/reserving you for the date, knowing you're not from the area where they're getting married, they need to organise your flights and everything. It's another cost associated with their wedding that they need to deal with and, just like your deposit, it is not refundable.

I would suggest writing that into your contract before anything gets too serious so they can't think you've added it in there after changing your mind :lol:

[FlyingPhotog]

I don't believe it would be fair to hold on to the airline ticket if the gig gets cancelled.

They aren't buying you a vacation, they're providing transportation to get where you need to be. If that need goes away, your deposit is your "safety net" not the plane ticket.

They bought the ticket .. they own it, not you.

[cdifoto]

I'm not exactly a jet-set photographer but I was paid up front when I hit Jamaica and Mexico. They took care of travel though, which was above and beyond my shooting fee. Their travel agent emailed me the vouchers and off I went. I didn't arrange anything because I'm travel-illiterate. In my case, however, vacation was part of the deal.

[drdiesel1]

ALLLLLLLLLLL Travel expenses up front, plus the regular 50% booking.

DO NOT let the client book your air fare, hotel or rental car. You need to book it so the times meet your needs. If they book it, you have no control over flight arrangements and times. They will have it setup, but it wont meet your needs.
You should go on line and setup the flight, hotel and rental with your preferred carriers and let them pay for it IMO.

[dovaka]

i never let anyone book anything for me i always just figure out what it will cost and let them know thats what my travel costs are and then i book everything my self after receiving the deposit

[cory1848]

I don't believe it would be fair to hold on to the airline ticket if the gig gets cancelled.

They aren't buying you a vacation, they're providing transportation to get where you need to be. If that need goes away, your deposit is your "safety net" not the plane ticket.

They bought the ticket .. they own it, not you.

Would you suggest that the person being hired set up the travel arrangements? I would want to be in control of that just so I know I am not being booked on some puddle jumper crop duster plane. Also makes things more difficult if something goes wrong and you need to rebook.

[FlyingPhotog]

Would you suggest that the person being hired set up the travel arrangements? I would want to be in control of that just so I know I am not being booked on some puddle jumper crop duster plane. Also makes things more difficult if something goes wrong and you need to rebook.

I worked this way for 25 years.

Airfare, Hotel and Car all arranged by my clients but with at least a little input from me re: preferred airline and route (but not always granted...)

[cdifoto]

ALLLLLLLLLLL Travel expenses up front, plus the regular 50% booking.

DO NOT let the client book your air fare, hotel or rental car. You need to book it so the times meet your needs. If they book it, you have no control over flight arrangements and times. They will have it setup, but it wont meet your needs.
You should go on line and setup the flight, hotel and rental with your preferred carriers and let them pay for it IMO.

Who says? I made it there and back in plenty of time. I communicated my needs to my brides and they set it up accordingly.

I let them arrange it because they can get my travel for their group rate. It works out fine for both of us.

[drdiesel1]

Who says? I made it there and back in plenty of time. I communicated my needs to my brides and they set it up accordingly.

I let them arrange it because they can get my travel for their group rate. It works out fine for both of us.

To each they`re own, but don't think it will work out every time ;)
I was responding to the OP's questions and giving sound advise, but I guess because you have had a good experience with someone else booking for you.
Then it must be OK :lol:

[cdifoto]

To each they`re own, but don't think it will work out every time ;)
I was responding to the OP's questions and giving sound advise, but I guess because you have had a good experience with someone else booking for you.
Then it must be OK :lol:

Maybe. I've only done it twice that way and have never worked out travel on my own. I don't see how it could NOT work out every time, since you do get confirmation of everything. I had to approve of the travel arrangements both times before they were a done deal.

[sfaust]

I would definitely make my own travel arrangements so I can make sure they accommodate my needs (equipment/baggage, preferences, etc). Airlines have difference restrictions, some are more forgiving in some areas, and knowing this can help make the travel smoother. When the reservations are made, sometimes the person making them need to change a little detail or two, and if they aren't familiar with what the photographer needs it could turn a routine trip it a hassle. So I always do the reservations myself.

Also, expenses should be covered up front. This gets more and more important as the projects get bigger and more complicated, so why not start off right. It's not that big of a deal to front the cash for a trip on a smaller job, but when the travel expenses start to grow, you don't want a precedent set that has the photographer footing the bill.

I do mostly commercial work, but this applies equally as well to a destination wedding. I ask for 100% of the expenses to be covered up front, and don't start any job until I have that (plus a signed contract, Purchase Order, etc). In the instances that I forgo the advance, I charge a markup on all expenses. Since I'll basically be their banker, billing department, and have the risk that if they flake on me I am out the expenses, the markup is justified. Whichever way they choose, I'm ok with it since I'm covered with either an advance, or and additional 20% for the risk and effort.

[cdifoto]

I'd make my own arrangements as well if I was out to make a profit on the travel, but on both destination weddings I arranged vacation time to myself before the wedding at their expense. I have yet to do a fly in, shoot, fly out thing. It's been fly in, drink/eat/bake in the sun/hang out/take an excursion with the wedding party/drink more, shoot, fly out.

In other words, I was there almost as long as they were there and I drank almost as much as they drank, with full resort accommodations as if I was family. The only cash I ever had out of pocket was the gas and tolls to and from Dulles.

[sfaust]

... fly in, drink/eat/bake in the sun/hang out/take an excursion with the wedding party/drink more, shoot, fly out...

Start shooting commercial/advertising where corp execs throw large budgets at creative types that play as hard as they work. Talk about fun times ;)

[cdifoto]

Start shooting commercial/advertising where corp execs throw large budgets at creative types that play as hard as they work. Talk about fun times ;)

Hahaha. I bet!

But hey you can have a lot of fun with an "all inclusive, unlimited food & drink" plan at those resorts. :D

[sfaust]

Hahaha. I bet!

But hey you can have a lot of fun with an "all inclusive, unlimited food & drink" plan at those resorts. :D

Can't argue with that!

[Michelle Brooks Photography]

Reviving an older thread here: I agree with the procedure of having the client pay for travel costs up front but my question is, how do they know the costs if they haven't already ordered their own tickets? Or do they just accept that whatever the costs are when they buy the tickets, it is what it is? I don't think I'd have a problem letting the client set up flight/accomodation/rental car details as long as they agree to certain criteria (time range, baggage/gear allowances, safety issues, etc).

[drdiesel1]

Reviving an older thread here: I agree with the procedure of having the client pay for travel costs up front but my question is, how do they know the costs if they haven't already ordered their own tickets? Or do they just accept that whatever the costs are when they buy the tickets, it is what it is? I don't think I'd have a problem letting the client set up flight/accomodation/rental car details as long as they agree to certain criteria (time range, baggage/gear allowances, safety issues, etc).


Like I said before. All expenses up front. That way if they flake, your not a-- out. I only fly certain airlines, so I prefer to make my own arrangement because I know when, where and how I want to travel and what I expect for that travel dollar.
Letting someone else handle it leaves to many open ended issues about location and quality accommodations. Why would anyone be willing to spend an extra 40 bucks on you, if they can find some cheap joint for you to stay at.
I only stay at certain hotels too. Dive hotels are not on the list, especially those in bad areas.
I won't drive a Toyota Echo either. I need at least a safe rental vehicle that can haul my gear and me safely. A mid-size is a must for me.

[RDKirk]

Like I said before. All expenses up front. That way if they flake, your not a-- out. I only fly certain airlines, so I prefer to make my own arrangement because I know when, where and how I want to travel and what I expect for that travel dollar.
Letting someone else handle it leaves to many open ended issues about location and quality accommodations. Why would anyone be willing to spend an extra 40 bucks on you, if they can find some cheap joint for you to stay at.
I only stay at certain hotels too. Dive hotels are not on the list, especially those in bad areas.
I won't drive a Toyota Echo either. I need at least a safe rental vehicle that can haul my gear and me safely. A mid-size is a must for me.

Or 20-hour layovers and such.

[drdiesel1]

Or 20-hour layovers and such.


Hahaha. Laying in an airport terminal on a hard seat or floor.
That would make a really great day, working an 8 hour wedding with a sore back and legs bw!

[Michelle Brooks Photography]

Yeah, I can see these are valid points...but how do you collect "up front" if the tickets for air fare are not to be purchased for some months?

[drdiesel1]

Yeah, I can see these are valid points...but how do you collect "up front" if the tickets for air fare are not to be purchased for some months?


Book in advance ;)

[RDKirk]

Book in advance ;)

And then itemize on the invoice.

[Michelle Brooks Photography]

Ok, so I can be sure I understand--someone asks about costs for doing a destination wedding-- you say "Our cost for the wedding package you want is $XXXX plus all travel costs including air fare, accomodations, daily food expenses, and car rental, and we require than we make our own flight, hotel and car rental reservations as soon as we are under contract with you so that you can include those expenses in your budget." Is that about right? But, let's say you're at a wedding expo and someone wants to book you there for the destination wedding-- how would you word it in the contract since you don't know yet the exact costs for those things? Won't the client want some kind of cap or something to insure that you're not going to book first class seats and a penthouse suite? Hope this makes sense...

[drdiesel1]

Ok, so I can be sure I understand--someone asks about costs for doing a destination wedding-- you say "Our cost for the wedding package you want is $XXXX plus all travel costs including air fare, accomodations, daily food expenses, and car rental, and we require than we make our own flight, hotel and car rental reservations as soon as we are under contract with you so that you can include those expenses in your budget." Is that about right? But, let's say you're at a wedding expo and someone wants to book you there for the destination wedding-- how would you word it in the contract since you don't know yet the exact costs for those things? Won't the client want some kind of cap or something to insure that you're not going to book first class seats and a penthouse suite? Hope this makes sense...


Add it to the deposit with an estimated $ figure and state that in the contract. Say maybe 15% - 20% of the contract. You don't need to have 100% accuracy until final payment is due/made.

[LBaldwin]

I have done it both ways and can see folly brewing either way. That is why it is very important to have in your contract - a few items of interest.

1. Kill fee - if the shoot gets booked, the airline and travel expenses paid for by me, then those fees are automatically due should the shoot be canceled. This is in addition to any non refundable booking fees (notice I don't use the term deposit)
2. If the client does not have the ability to pay for travel in advance at the time of booking then at least 50% is due at the time the contract is signed. I can and will float 50% travel costs under most circumstances - but I charge an additional fee for doing this too. Credit is NOT free.
3. I try to book my own travel arrangments. If in the US it easier. But several times in my career I have traveled outside the US so international travel with several $$$$ worth of gear, means that I want total control. I do shoot for clients that actually have travel departments either off site or onsite, so they do sometimes insist that I use them. But so far that has always garnered some great flights.
4. Consider shipping the camera or studio gear via Fed-ex or other shipper, this will often reduce the chance of lost gear, lower the prices (no weight limit for the bags) and best of all they will be at your destination when you arrive. No hauling crap through the airport. BUT backups are required so plan accordingly.
5. Make sure that you charge lower portion of your creative fee for the time spent traveling, you get paid for that time too.
6. Lastly, and I cannot stress this enough, make sure that you have cold hard cash to handle any emergencies that may arise. Sometimes credit cards or debit cards cannot be used. Get receipts for everything, and keep them handy. Missed airplanes, dead rental cars, lost gear, and even sickness are always an issue lurking in the bushes. I always try to plan for the absurd, and more than once have had to use it...

My best friend just had to replace his entire laptop kit when it was stolen out of his car. He went right to Fry's got the same model, bought the software and had it up and running 4 hours prior to the wedding flight down to Jamaica. He was able to complete the shoot and present the couple with the required slideshow of the nuptials as per the contract. WHEW.

[dovaka]

My best friend just had to replace his entire laptop kit when it was stolen out of his car. He went right to Fry's got the same model, bought the software and had it up and running 4 hours prior to the wedding flight down to Jamaica. He was able to complete the shoot and present the couple with the required slideshow of the nuptials as per the contract. WHEW.

On that note I have a MAC and always carry my backup drive with me that has a time machine image of my system on it. If something happens to my laptop I can just go get a new one plug in the drive and about an hour later its running like nothing ever happened.