Making kit lens photos sharper? Techniques?

[csondagar]

Many of us have a kit lens 18-55mm which we all know is not the sharpest lens around. I am interested to learn from other what techniques are used to capture as sharp a photo as possible. Or how the photo is made sharper using post-processing tools.

Please share your technique: anything from optimal aperture/speed settings, lighting conditions, sharpening tools used, etc.

Thanks.

[Andy_T]

For starters, take a look at this thread:
Sharper when stopped down. For us without L lenses (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38424)

Best regards,
Andy

[soupdragon]

Give up, I tried everything and came to the conclusion I needed a new lens.

[PhotosGuy]

Good link, Andy!
You should get good results at around f/8 or higher. I suggest that you focus on the eyes, instead of the cheek as he did. Everyone looks at them first, & they're a higher contrast area for the sensor to work with. ;-)

[csondagar]

Give up, I tried everything and came to the conclusion I needed a new lens.

I am not ready to give up just yet. I believe that this lens is capable of delivering more. Some of the images taken by these lens (by others) are really excellent quality.

[soupdragon]

I don't disagree with you, but if you are in a situation which demands a certain aperture/focal length combination that is not on your "sweet spot" table then you are stuffed for image quality straight away.

[Nightcrawler]

The kit lens is really not as bad as people make it out to be. It is just that most people around here have L-fever.

[lostdoggy]

The kit lens is really not as bad as people make it out to be. It is just that most people around here have L-fever.

And Don't Forget Deep Pocket!!!

Key to better picture other then what has been said is TIFF 16 and a good dose of USM and for smoother skin a tad of threshold.

[arunchs]

I have got pretty decent results when I apply USM. Hopefully you are already familiar with USM. Otherwise see this: http://www.naturescapes.net/122004/tg1204.htm

[badrotation]

Many of us have a kit lens 18-55mm which we all know is not the sharpest lens around. I am interested to learn from other what techniques are used to capture as sharp a photo as possible. Or how the photo is made sharper using post-processing tools.

Please share your technique: anything from optimal aperture/speed settings, lighting conditions, sharpening tools used, etc.

Thanks.


The kit lens can be a VERY sharp lens.... Just take pics at f/8-10 and use unsharp mask on them....


Here is an example I took memorial day with the kit lens...

http://img258.echo.cx/img258/5747/img5146sharpsmall7qx4gl.jpg


http://img258.echo.cx/img258/945/img5153sharpsmall6pd9fq.jpg

[Michaelmjc]

Wow that is an excellent shot, I had no idea my kit lens was capable of that. How long was the exposure?

[Radioham]

Arunchs
I know you are talking about unsharpmask in Photoshop (USM), But there is also ultra sonic motors used in some Canon lenses (USM)
LOL Steve

[badrotation]

Wow that is an excellent shot, I had no idea my kit lens was capable of that. How long was the exposure?


20 seconds at f/22 and ISO 400

[Hellashot]

Isn't the rule for fireworks: f4 @ 4 seconds once you hear the "thud" of the launch?

[ron chappel]

Actually Badrotation's pics aren't very sharp at all. The same thing happens in any image that includes lots of semi-fine detail/lines,etc . Our eyes interpret that kind of thing as sharpness.
Pics of dogs and cats,etc are a classic example of this. All that hair makes them look razor sharp even though they aren't anywhere near it. (See below for an example of this-pic taken with an ancient ,pathetic 1.3Mp digicam)

Badrotations pics DO look great ! But that is mostly due to the content,framing,colour,etc (in otherwords,a very good photographer;) )
It just goes to show that even a sh*t lens can take great photo's if the image is strong enough/memorable enough




Anyway-to the main question -photoshop methods to get the best from this lens.
I've put a heap of effort into improving kit lens shots in photoshop and have so far come up allmost completely empty.
Yes they can be improved but in my experience there's simply not enough to work with!
One can only sharpen so much before the image looks rediculous. Upping the contrast is a typical trick that also has limits with this lens.
For years i've heard photographers talking about 'mudiness' in an image.I now know what they mean ! This lens does that to the fine detail:mad: :mad: :mad:

>In fact i think the fundamental problem with this lens is that it tends to show fine detail -but it blurs it.Once that happens it's impossible to fix it.
It would be better if it couldn't pick up that detail at all <
Just a theory





http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3495708-lg.jpg

[pcasciola]

This is a picture I took with the kit lens when I was selling my Tokina 17mm. It was taken at f/8 on a tripod.

All I did here was USM of right around 300/0.3/0 (my typical starting point since I use no in camera sharpening), slight brightness and contrast adjustment, resize (bicubic sharper), and USM of around 50/0.3/0 after the resize.

http://www.casciola.com/pics/tokina2.jpg

[soupdragon]

The other way of making the kit lens sharp is to bring the front element to a point with an angle grinder.

[schmoelzel]

I am the first to admit to being a sharpness addict but there are a lot of factors that go into a picture seeming sharp or for that matter, a lens being sharp. Focus point is important of course and many many shots that I see exhibit either shutter speeds that are too slow or apertures that are very very narrow making it difficult to get a 'sharp' picture. What I have noticed recently with my better lenses is that yes they are sharp but as important is the contrast and the colour. This is where the kit lens has its weak point. Contrast is not very good and contrast makes a subject pop out of it's surroundings. The kit lens is ok if you're happy with web-pictures or 4 X 6 prints; if you ever want to blow anything up past 8 X 10, you will not be happy with the print. Also, I found that the kit lens had so-sol colour rendition (at least for my taste). Everything seemed to have a greenish cast to it that was fixable but with some time in PS..........if you like portraits with the smooth, creamy bokeh, the kit lens at F8 will not give you that.............

[Michaelmjc]

The other way of making the kit lens sharp is to bring the front element to a point with an angle grinder.

haha try it and let us know how it works...maybe you can make a buisiness out of it.

[exposingmyself]

ron: are those boston terriers? those are pretty sharp muzzles.
phillip: that's a really clean lens.

i've been listening in on advice. i'm not getting great images with my 18-55 mm kit lens either. :(

[ScottE]

Can't someone just provide a list of techniques for better sharpness?

Aperture - depends on lens, but usually in the f/8 to f/11 range

Small aperture - may contradict the above, but for some complex subjects it is necessary to use a small aperture to get enough depth of field to have more than a small portion of the picture in focus.

Depth of field preview - for complex shots check the depth of field.

Good lighting - photos usually appear better if taken in bright light rather than dim. A back or rim light can enhance edges.

Focus - for animals or people make sure the closest eye is on the plane of focus. No one cares if their blemishes are out of focus, but they want their eye lashes sharp. Use just the centre auto focus point, focus on the eye and then recompose for the shot. Switch to manual focus if AF isn't getting what you want.

ISO - a higher ISO allows a higher shutter speed that will reduce softness due to subject movement.

Tripod - the most common reason for soft photos is camera movement, not poor lenses.

Remote release - further reduce camera movement.

Mirror lock up - most effective at slower shutter speeds, to reduce camera vibration.

Composition - no one will notice if a well composed shot is a little soft (except some anal photographers). People rave about good water colour or oil paintings, but those have terrible sharpness if you look at them up close.

Unsharp Mask - will not save a poor picture, but can enhance a good one if not over applied.

Scott

[ron chappel]

ron: are those boston terriers? those are pretty sharp muzzles.


They're black kelpies (cattle/sheep dogs)
Incidentally i just bought another pup-she's mostly dingo !:D No good pics yet tho
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3496545

[ed2day]

Good point about the subject influencing perceived sharpness. As Ron pointed out, high contrast pictures always look sharper. Color can influence perceived sharpness as well. Showing the subject against a blurry background will make it look sharper as photographers have long known. I also think "closeups" will always look sharper, such as Ron's dogs. When you are looking from a perspective closer than that from which you would normally veiw a subject you see details you don't ordinarily notice and that gives an illusion of great detail. And then there is the skill of the photographer in using all these factors which is why a great photographer can get sharper looking pictures than a novice using the same equipment.

[soupdragon]

Careful on the ISO advice there.
Methinks over ISOING may have an adverse effect.

[ScottE]

Careful on the ISO advice there.
Methinks over ISOING may have an adverse effect.
High ISO has more noise, but not necessarily less sharpness. If you are shooting from a tripod, the only time you have to bump ISO to get more shutter speed is when the subject is moving. Subject motion and slow shutter speed will lead to much less sharpness than high ISO.

Scott

[soupdragon]

Additional noise/grain through the use of high ISO settings must have an effect on sharpness.

[ScottE]

Noise removal programs have an effect on sharpness, if you apply them, but noise or grain left alone just makes the picture look spotty, not less sharp. In any case, motion blur has more of an effect than a bit of noise.

The trade off is between noise and motion blur in low light situations. Unless you are interested in an artistic effect, the elimination of motion blur by using a highe ISO and faster shutter speed usually wins. This is not new to digital photography. People have been using grainy high ISO film for years for this purpose. Look at how grainy some of the old classic newspaper shots were. One of the great things about the new Canon digital cameras is how well noise is controlled at high ISO. They far exceed any colour film available.

Scott

[PhotosGuy]

Noise removal programs have an effect on sharpness, There is an option in RSE that allows noise removal, & sharpening BEFORE the conversion from RAW. (Just in case someone missed it!) ;-)

[morten]

The most amazing improvement can be had using Photoshops unsharp mask to increase the local contrast, by using a high radius, and low amount. Try 20/30/0 as a starting point.
Contrast is typically where cheap lenses don't perform very well, with light spilling into dark areas, but USM with these settings can improve it a lot

[copter105]

Actually Badrotation's pics aren't very sharp at all.



Thank you ron chappel!!! It's about time. I was wondering about this board.

[Andy_T]

I think that a fireworks picture is not the best thing to judge sharpness, as fireworks and clouds both do lack substance a bit :lol:

Best regards,
Andy

[Nikolas]

This any good then?
Taken with the kit lens in raw and sharpened up in raw using CS2

btw the "hot spots" in the sky are stars.
15 sec exposure f/8 100iso 300D 18-55 kit lens tripod mounted
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/%7Esmeegles/Stuff/surreal3.jpg

[4x4rock]

This pic is also from the 18-55, f8 ... minimal sharpening in PS.

http://s92730767.onlinehome.us/picture/misc/kit_lens/torches1.jpg