Flash balancing

[beacherz]

Lately I've been shooting basketball and wrestling with a 580EX and a Minolta 320X. My understanding is that when using flash, and shooting at least two stops above ambient, white balance should be correct. Sometimes this works, however what I'm finding at other times is that I usually have some work to do in Lightroom and/or Photoshop for color correction and WB. So, I'm thinking that either I'm not setting my flash units at a high enough power to cover my shooting area or my direction is off. Most of the time I try and use the 580 at 1/2 power and the Minolta at 3/4. I have 2 12 foot light stands that allow me to move the flashes around if I need more light. I've attached two pictures of a recent setup for a wrestling match. I've underexposed to show the coverage by the flash units. Any help would be appreciated.

[Gatorboy]

How about posting an image or two from the action you shot. I always use daylight WB, and get very consistent results.

[beacherz]

Here are two that imo need some pp. Many from this shoot do not, however I should be able to cover the entire mat with my setup, no?

[zelseman]

The skin has a slight magenta tint to it. WB issue perhaps?

[beacherz]

The skin has a slight magenta tint to it. WB issue perhaps?

Exactly...shouldn't the strength of the flash overcome ambient and render a proper white balance?

[zelseman]

I can't speak for others on here, but I know that you will have issues if you are using two different light temps. Strobist.com recommends gelling their flashes to match the ambient.

[wyofizz]

Exactly...shouldn't the strength of the flash overcome ambient and render a proper white balance?

It will over come the lousy light variations but won't always give proper WB. You could be getting the red color off the mat on the skin in those pics.

[beacherz]

I can't speak for others on here, but I know that you will have issues if you are using two different light temps. Strobist.com recommends gelling their flashes to match the ambient.

So, if you don't have enough power to overcome ambient altogether in the area you are shooting, you will have ambient "leak" (for lack of a better term). To me, that means, in a large gym, you most likely need more than my 580EX and 320X. Maybe I'm just not directing the lights on the area correctly. The Canon 580EX is set at 35mm and the Minolta is set at "W" wide or approx. 35mm too. I guess I'll bump both up to full power and suffer with the recycle times. Thanks.

[primnumbers]

Have you tried a "Custom" WB, I have had the same problem in the past, first question what type of camera and lens are you using? Second question, does flash match camera for proper "TTL" option,. Also are you moving around a lot, when setting custom WB you should do at every shooting point. Also what are your settings, shuter speed / f stop. Both of the photos look well lighted, but the faces and other skin ares seem to be over exposed, I also assume you are shooting from between the two strobes and slightly behind. Have you tryed different shutter speed and f-stops? Fill me in maybe we can figure it out?

[Gatorboy]

These are a bit overexposed, and secondly, these guys are exerting a ton of energy. This is the toughest HS sport, bar none. Their skin will be red naturally.

I can't speak for others on here, but I know that you will have issues if you are using two different light temps. Strobist.com recommends gelling their flashes to match the ambient.
There aren't two different light temps. The strobes are the only light source.

[primnumbers]

No overhead lighting, My problem was hight contrast when using a strobe also, the uniforms are shiny. I fixed it with useing 2,000 watts of continious lighting, ( 250 watt full spectrum bulbs) pleaced in front and on the sides (used in hot lamps). The school appreciated the extra lighting and it did not distract the wrestlers every time the strobe went off. Your also right on skin color but you can get a more natural effect with continous lighting and not much more to set up, just bring lots of duct tape and long extention cords.

[beacherz]

Have you tried a "Custom" WB, I have had the same problem in the past, first question what type of camera and lens are you using? Second question, does flash match camera for proper "TTL" option,. Also are you moving around a lot, when setting custom WB you should do at every shooting point. Also what are your settings, shuter speed / f stop. Both of the photos look well lighted, but the faces and other skin ares seem to be over exposed, I also assume you are shooting from between the two strobes and slightly behind. Have you tryed different shutter speed and f-stops? Fill me in maybe we can figure it out?


I agree, they are a little hot. I run into that too on occassion. Shooting at 1/250, f/3.2, 500 ISO. Trying to keep my ISO down - the reason I'm shooting w/flash. I've been told that white balance should take care of itself when flash exposure is correct.

[beacherz]

These are a bit overexposed, and secondly, these guys are exerting a ton of energy. This is the toughest HS sport, bar none. Their skin will be red naturally.


There aren't two different light temps. The strobes are the only light source.

That's exactly what I believe to be true. You are right about the red faces and I think the orange mat doesn't help. I wish I could bounce, however this is a large gym with a black ceiling at least 40 foot up.

[Gatorboy]

... but you can get a more natural effect with continous lighting and not much more to set up, just bring lots of duct tape and long extention cords.

What makes you think you get a more natural effect with continous lighting? This makes no sense.

[primnumbers]

What makes you think you get a more natural effect with continous lighting? This makes no sense.

Wrong choice of words, natural is not it, it would be better to say more fill and not so hot . A bit more unifrom across the whole photo

[ChunkyDA]

My understanding is that when using flash, and shooting at least two stops above ambient, white balance should be correct.
I believe you are not setting your exposure correctly or perhaps just not explaining it right. You should be setting a manual exposure 2-3 stops BELOW a proper ambient exposure, thus eliminating most, if not all, of the gym lighting and making a proper exposure with your 2 flash units. In other words, the first 2 images of the setup are nice and dark which is the correct exposure for this technique. The 2 images of the wrestlers are overexposed and I can't tell if it is from the gym lights or your flash but it really does not matter, they are overexposed. Take a test image without flash and make sure you see almost nothing. Start with something like 1/250, f3.2, ISO 400. This will eliminate the ghost motion of combining the 2 light sources (gym and your flash). Now use the same manual settings and get a proper exposure from your flash.
Be sure to use a 1/250 shutter speed (max sync speed for your 40D) and adjust your aperature, ISO and most importantly...flash output. Direct flash at those distances is probably OK to start at 1/2 power on the 580EX and a similar output on the Minolta.
There are plenty of "how-to" threads here, just search for "strobed basketball".

[beacherz]

I believe you are not setting your exposure correctly or perhaps just not explaining it right. You should be setting a manual exposure 2-3 stops BELOW a proper ambient exposure, thus eliminating most, if not all, of the gym lighting and making a proper exposure with your 2 flash units. In other words, the first 2 images of the setup are nice and dark which is the correct exposure for this technique. The 2 images of the wrestlers are overexposed and I can't tell if it is from the gym lights or your flash but it really does not matter, they are overexposed. Take a test image without flash and make sure you see almost nothing. Start with something like 1/250, f3.2, ISO 400. This will eliminate the ghost motion of combining the 2 light sources (gym and your flash). Now use the same manual settings and get a proper exposure from your flash.
Be sure to use a 1/250 shutter speed (max sync speed for your 40D) and adjust your aperature, ISO and most importantly...flash output. Direct flash at those distances is probably OK to start at 1/2 power on the 580EX and a similar output on the Minolta.
There are plenty of "how-to" threads here, just search for "strobed basketball".

Thanks Dave and yes, I did explain it incorrectly. Ambient in this gym is ISO 1600 at f/2.8 to 3.2 depending on where you are and a shutter speed of 400. So, looking at my settings, 500, 3.2 and 250, I was right on the cusp. Should have adjusted ISO to 400 or upped my f stop. I'll be there again over the weekend and make sure I'm below. Thanks again for the advice.

[Gatorboy]

Wrong choice of words, natural is not it, it would be better to say more fill and not so hot . A bit more unifrom across the whole photo

Sorry, the size of your continuous lights are the same size as strobes. Same amount of fill/softness, etc. If they look hot, then the camera is not set to the proper exposure.

You should be setting a manual exposure 2-3 stops BELOW a proper ambient exposure, thus eliminating most, if not all, of the gym lighting and making a proper exposure with your 2 flash units.

You want to set exposure ABOVE ambient. If you are 2-3 stops below ambient, you will be blowing out the image from the get-go. I think you are trying to say UNDEREXPOSE by 2-3 stops.