what lens works best at a concert?

[MrSo0h0o]

hey guys i need some input. i am going to a concert in a few weeks and this will be my first concert while owning a dslr. I would like to know if the gear I have is good enough/worth it to take to the concert.

i have a rebel 300d with a nifty fifty, 38-76 f/4.5-5.6, and a tokina 100-300mm f/5.6-6.7. The concert is at MSG and i dont have floor seats, so im pretty sure the fifty and the 38-76 wont be long enough. Will i be able to take decent shots with the tokina in such a dark place or will the stage lighting be enough to get ok shots?

[Sports_Dude]

The 50mm would be your best if the venue is dark.

[deathcake]

At f/5.6, it would be really, really difficult. You'd have to bring the ISO way up...I am even not sure if it can be done. Anything slower than 1/50 would be blurry, even 1/50 tends to look kinda soft.

The nifty fifty can still get some nice shots even from further away, I think it still stands a better chance than the Tokina 100-300mm.

Here's a shot I took with the 50mm from quite far away of the Top Gear Live opening. f/2.8, ISO 1600, 1/80sec. Unedited.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7963/img1169if.jpg
And a 100% crop:
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8788/img11692.jpg

The closup isn't really useable, as you can see, but it can get you nice, wider scenes. Wait till some of the pros read this, they might have some better ideas.

[René Damkot]

Where or what is "MSG"?

Are camera's allowed?

[hairy_moth]

Where or what is "MSG"?

Are camera's allowed?
OP is from NYC.. I'd guess Madison Square Garden.

From the http://www.thegarden.com

Cameras

Video cameras, monopods, tripods, audio recording devices and cameras with telephoto or zoom lenses are not permitted inside Madison Square Garden at any time. This policy will be strictly enforced. You may bring in a disposable or 35mm camera (with no zoom or telephoto lens), however, for some events, cameras of any type and/or flash photography may be prohibited.


You could probably get an EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM into the concert as it does not look like a telephoto, but there will probably not be enough light. But, I think I'd leave the camera at home unless I had really good floor seats; and then I'd bring a short fast lens.

[MrSo0h0o]

thank you for your responses!

yes, MSG is Madison Square Garden in NYC for you non-US members.

I will definitely keep the zooms at home, I didnt even think of looking up the rules on cameras at the venue. I will take another look at where my seats are to see if it is worth it to bring the fifty or not.

[jtm45412]

The 85/1.8 is a great concert lens. If this is not available the 50 is hard to beat.

[skifurthur]

Madison Square Garden, perhaps the world's most famous venue, runs a tight security detail for reasons that are rather evident since 9/11. They mean it when they say no DSLRs. That's not to say that some do get them past entry security...some do. But, unless you talk a good game, standard procedure if found with a DSLR inside the venue without a credential is to remove you from the premises. FYI, your ticket will be voided and you won't be able to return even if you offer to bring it back to your car.

I, for one, would rather enjoy the concert than deal with that stuff.

[Village_Idiot]

If you really want to shoot concerts, you may be better off finding not as well known bands playing at "larger" clubs in your areas and offering to shoot them for free. That way you could get experience and a portfolio that may one day eventually get you into shooting what you want, where you want.

[blackshadow]

If you really want to shoot concerts, you may be better off finding not as well known bands playing at "larger" clubs in your areas and offering to shoot them for free. That way you could get experience and a portfolio that may one day eventually get you into shooting what you want, where you want.

BAD BAD BAD advice.

If you are building your portfolio find venues that are camera friendly and build your portfolio there - don't go offering to shoot for free. That just builds expectation that photography isn't worth paying for as you don't value your work as a photographer because you give it away for free.

skifurther hit the nail on the head about leaving your camera at home for a venue like MSG.

[JelleVerherstraeten]

135L would be very nice, the 100 f2 for a tight budget.

[MrSo0h0o]

thanks for all the replys guys.. the concert was thursday and i left the camera home, not only because of the rules stated on the MSG website, but because it was so snowy!

the sad part was, there was a guy right next to me with a dslr and a pretty long telephoto zoom lens! so i guess they arent that strict with the camera rule!!

as for those of you who are saying portfolio and everything, this is more of a hobby for me and it would be for my own personal collection, so its nothing i need to get crazy about, but i appreciate your advice

[nuffi]

The most amazing lens for getting into venues like that is the sigma 600mm mirror lens. Needs to be converted, but it doens't look much bigger than a 50mm.

[jsphotos]

I shoot alot of concerts and I shoot with the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8

[narlus]

The most amazing lens for getting into venues like that is the sigma 600mm mirror lens. Needs to be converted, but it doens't look much bigger than a 50mm.

err...not sure what 50mm lens you are thinking of, but it's certainly quite a bit larger than my 50 f/1.4.

plus, f/8 lenses typically don't fare well in a concert setting.

http://cameralensesworld.us/wp-content/uploads/Canon_EOS_40D_With_Sigma_600MM_telephoto_Lens_01_x qc.gif

[90c4]

However, a somewhat stealthy zoom is the 70-300 DO. It's not fast either, but I used to have little problem sneaking it into venues. I just sold mine this week since my camera sneaking days are over.

[scroller52]

i've gotten a 70-200 on my 40D through msg.....

[jasenpetersen@comcast.net]

From the photo pit a wide angle fast lens is they way to go. I use a 17-55/2.8 you can see some of my shots here www.pureimage.smugmug.com

[blackshadow]

From the photo pit a wide angle fast lens is they way to go. I use a 17-55/2.8 you can see some of my shots here www.pureimage.smugmug.com (http://www.pureimage.smugmug.com)


It depends on the pit. For larger pits/stages a 70-200 is ideal (with a wider lens on second body).

[skifurthur]

i've gotten a 70-200 on my 40D through msg.....

And I've also seen security "accidently" drop a DSLR with 70-200 attached after a person was found shooting when they shouldn't have. If it broke the photographer would have no recourse in NYC under law.

[jsphotos]

I shoot with the Canon 7d and the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG

[jdaly]

Originally Posted by Village_Idiot
If you really want to shoot concerts, you may be better off finding not as well known bands playing at "larger" clubs in your areas and offering to shoot them for free. That way you could get experience and a portfolio that may one day eventually get you into shooting what you want, where you want.



BAD BAD BAD advice.

If you are building your portfolio find venues that are camera friendly and build your portfolio there - don't go offering to shoot for free. That just builds expectation that photography isn't worth paying for as you don't value your work as a photographer because you give it away for free.

skifurther hit the nail on the head about leaving your camera at home for a venue like MSG.

Bad advice? uh... ok. I read this to mean, get yourself on the guest list for some of the smaller national touring acts that are not playing the arenas and such. You get in for free, get some experience shooting concerts in low light, and build your portfolio.

[blackshadow]

Bad advice? uh... ok. I read this to mean, get yourself on the guest list for some of the smaller national touring acts that are not playing the arenas and such. You get in for free, get some experience shooting concerts in low light, and build your portfolio.

The bad advice is the part about giving away your photos for free. Don't offer to exchange photos for access - that's just cutting your own throat and every other photographer's throat. If you don't value your work, how do you expect musicians/publications etc to value (and pay) for it.

What I mean is start shooting local (and you'll probably have to pay to get in) at camera friendly venues to build your portfolio and learn a bit about the art/science of concert photography.

Once you reach a certain level then start showing your folio and developing networks and finding publications/clients to shoot for. Whatever you do don't go giving away your photos for nothing.

[blackshadow]

I shoot with the Canon 7d and the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG

The relevance of this is?

[figdatbong]

The relevance of this is?

Perhaps the answer to that is in the questions itself?

[bacchanal]

Perhaps the answer to that is in the questions itself?

Perhaps.

[Bigmojo]

I shoot quite a few gigs these days and many are in dreadful light. I found that the minimum aperture is f/2.8 but ideally f1.8. Sadly the faster lenses particularly the 85mm f/1.2 is far too slow focussing.I now use a 5D Mark II with various lenses. Predominantly an EF85mm f/1.8 but also a Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L and a 70-200 F/2.8 L IS.

I think the ideal lens if im at a bigger gig would be the 135mm f/2. If I had a spare £900 UK Id get one.

With the wider lenses I then found the biggest problem to be the AF on the 5D. Its Ok but not as good as the 1d MK4 which I borrowed. I hear the 7d is even better but I dont want to shoot with an APS-c sensor.

[bohdank]

What lens to use depends on the shots you want, full width stage, one performer, etc. and your distance from said stage/performer. I rarley shoot or use a lens faster than f2.8, prefering to get an in focus shot, and sacrifice noise by using higher ISO.

I also prefer zooms since it allows different framing between shots. Shooting with primes tends to diminish the variety of framing in your images and the shots all start having a sameness to them.

I use everything from 17 to 200mm, often at the same show. Recently bought a 300mm for those rare moments I can't get close to the stage.

[90c4]

Perhaps that's true with the mk I version or if the performers are running across the stage at full tilt, but the 85mm f1.2 mk II version is a wonderful lens for concerts in my experience.

Sadly the faster lenses particularly the 85mm f/1.2 is far too slow focussing.

[narlus]

I rarley shoot or use a lens faster than f2.8, prefering to get an in focus shot, and sacrifice noise by using higher ISO.

i've been in plenty of situations where shooting @ 6400 and f/2.8 still doesn't cut it...you can definitely get in focus shots w/ a larger aperture...

[bohdank]

Depends how close you are and/or how tight you are shooting. Also depends how animated the performer(s) are and how much you want to isolate them.

I am curious what (stage) shows you have shot that required ISO6400 and f2.8 and it still was not enough.

I have to assume there was no liighting to speak of.

[britt49]

thus far, ive generally used my 24-70 and for the MOST PART kept it at f2.8 and ISO 1600, and just shutter speed generally has been between 1/80 and 1/120, all for the most part, thats generally what ive used thus far

[TeenPhotog]

thus far, ive generally used my 24-70 and for the MOST PART kept it at f2.8 and ISO 1600, and just shutter speed generally has been between 1/80 and 1/120, all for the most part, thats generally what ive used thus far


Do you think you suffer at all from a max aperture of 2.8 or is that sufficient? I'm thinking about a 24 70 specifically with the purpose of shooting at show. Not sure about the aperture, but as far as focal range it seems perfect for what I want. When using the 50 in the pit I've found I really want to get wider sometimes and other times get a little more telephoto.

[narlus]

Depends how close you are and/or how tight you are shooting. Also depends how animated the performer(s) are and how much you want to isolate them.

I am curious what (stage) shows you have shot that required ISO6400 and f2.8 and it still was not enough.

I have to assume there was no liighting to speak of.

sometimes it's because you are shooting a drummer and need more speed. other times it's because the entire stage has very low light. i've shot a bunch of shows like this...here are just a few examples (EXIF should be intact):

antony
http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p37808321-4.jpg

harvey milk
http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v8/p75684605-4.jpg

neurosis
http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v6/p921346737-4.jpg

1349
http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p602283893-4.jpg

crippled black phoenix (1/40th @ f/1.4, ISO 25600)
http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v8/p425827534-4.jpg

acid mothers temple
http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v8/p513177982-4.jpg

the kills
http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p683936031-4.jpg

om
http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p736602458-4.jpg

you get the idea...btw, these were all taken at different venues.

[TeenPhotog]

was that last one at a music specific venue? I'm loving the floor to ceiling windows.

[bohdank]

I had a feeling the venues were not large stages, I shoot, mostly, pardon the term "real stages" even if sometimes they might have poor lighting.

1349 actually doesn't look that dark. Surprised at the camera settings you needed for that one but I wasn;t there, so shouldn't second guess you.

[narlus]

well Neurosis was playing to a few thousand people on an outdoor stage, and Antony was @ Berklee Performance Center, a well-respected music hall at the school known for its music instruction.

the 1349 show was quite dark, fitting w/ their black metal approach. here's another one (f/1.4 @ 6400, 1/50th, with obvious front-focusing issues)
http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p659590284-4.jpg


i will admit that since I've gotten the 5D2 and its high ISO capabilities, the need for primes has certainly been reduced, but not eliminated.

TeenPhotog, that venue is Boston's Institute of Contemporary Art, and it's the amphitheater for performances and film screenings. they don't host a lot of shows. here's one from 2007, of Deerhunter...it's a cool venue.

http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p611299656-4.jpg

[90c4]

I've shot a number of shows where ISO 6400 f2.8 wouldn't have cut it. Last week I took this shot and had to use my fisheye because the band was only a foot away during this song and I was at ISO 12,800 (actually ISO 25,600 because I think I pushed it a stop in post) 1/30 f2.8. That was exceptionally dark.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q68/gastwirt/LowAnthem.jpg

But lets also not forget that regardless of what you're shooting, photography is photography and getting everything in focus doesn't always make for a better image. I almost always try to take a few shots between f1.2-f2, especially at shows in which I'm not limited to the first three. The shot below wouldn't have been as compelling, in my opinion, had I stopped it down or used a longer focal length from further back - his hand would have been competing for attention with his face. Sometimes the goal is to document an event for a newspaper and sometimes it's to isolate the part of the scene that's important to you - the difference between taking a picture and making a picture.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q68/gastwirt/stringdusters.jpg


I am curious what (stage) shows you have shot that required ISO6400 and f2.8 and it still was not enough.

I have to assume there was no liighting to speak of.

[bohdank]

Fortunately I can get away with less extreme camera settings.

This can sound like blasphemy but I have been experimenting with using a throttled down flash to add some fill for those dark shadows. If done right (you still have to expose for ambient) you can get some very natural looking results. This assumes you are permitted to use a flash.

[TeenPhotog]

I have another question for you guys:
Does anyone here shoot shows with primes when under the 3 song limit? If so do you use two bodies, or actually pop off different lenses?

[90c4]

I do sometimes and only have one body, flipping lenses is pretty quick.

I have another question for you guys:
Does anyone here shoot shows with primes when under the 3 song limit? If so do you use two bodies, or actually pop off different lenses?

[René Damkot]

Same here.

[Cham_001]

hey guys i need some input. i am going to a concert in a few weeks and this will be my first concert while owning a dslr. I would like to know if the gear I have is good enough/worth it to take to the concert.

i have a rebel 300d with a nifty fifty, 38-76 f/4.5-5.6, and a tokina 100-300mm f/5.6-6.7. The concert is at MSG and i dont have floor seats, so im pretty sure the fifty and the 38-76 wont be long enough. Will i be able to take decent shots with the tokina in such a dark place or will the stage lighting be enough to get ok shots?

I would prefer to take my 85mm F1.2L.
However, just to be sure, I would rent the 135mm f2.0L for a day or 2.
(BTW: does anyone know whether a 1.4 TC would work with the 135 lens?)

[bohdank]

It works quite well, imo.

[narlus]

hey bohdank, i thought of you and this thread the other night when my 5D2 went south before shooting Public Image Ltd, and i had to rely on my 50 f/1.4 and 135 f/2 for quite a lot of the shots.

[JessicaHughes]

I see a lot of posts for the 50 mm 1.4 and 1.8. I have the 1.4 but I like to zoom at concerts. I use the 24-70mmL. It goes to 2.8. I have the Mark II which kicks ass in low light. I also like to use my fisheye.