Night photography??

[Lulula]

Ok.. here's the thing, I'm going to be photographing the opening ceremony for an archery championship, and I'm worried, for two reasons. First, it's going to be at night, AND it's going to be outdoors.
I'm not used to night photography (literally) and I have a few questions.
My camera is a 50d, and I recently bought an external flash. (bear with my please.. I'm still a beginner :neutral:)
My first question, what settings should I use?
How to use my external flash, and how to aim it at the subject I'm shooting?
If I want to shoot continuous shots at night, how does that work?
Any useful tips are MOST welcome!! Keeping in mind that this is going to be the first time I shoot at night :-?

Thanks!

[Mocows]

Do you have a tripod? What flash did you get? What lenses are you planning on using?

If you don't have to move much, a tripod would help imo.
The flash is important cuz depending on your definition of "continuous shooting", not all flashes can withstand rapid fire shots without overheating. I'm sure lenses would be important to know as to calculate out some settings you could try.

[Lulula]

Yes I do have a tripod. The flash I got is a Speedlite 270ex, and I'm planning on using my EFS 18-200mm zoom lens.

[DragonDan]

My first though is to not use a flash - that's a sure way to make people (and the contestants) angry with you. So that leaves it up to fast glass - meaning for your use, maybe a 70mm-200mm f2.8. The lower f number means how much light the lens will allow to hit the camera's sensor. You can rent these lenses at your local camera shop.

For the camera settings, you are probably going to have to use high ISO's to keep the shutter speed high. I'm not familiar with what it would take to freeze an arrow in flight, or to get crisp focus on the people, maybe 1/250 to start?

Can you get to the site a day early and do some test shots? A tripod is a must, as well as shooting in RAW for maximum control over the final image.

[5x5 photography]

I imagine this is going to be a tough shoot with your gear.
The 18-200 lens is not a bad lens but it is slow (min aperture at 18mm f/3.5 and using 200mm at f/5.6 will require a powerful flash).
The 270Ex will sync at 1/250th but max range at 100 ISO is about 25 feet (that is with a 50mm f/1.4).
What size are the images going to be? I would shoot RAW, use the flash, look for a faster lens. The 17-55 f/2.8 would be a better choice or the 24-70L f/2.8 for a longer reach. If you could get away with using a prime look at the 28 or 85 f/1.8 for wide ot telephoto. The 50mm f/1.8 is a good lens and cheap.
You could always rent a lens and maybe a 430 EXII flash if using a flash will not be a problem.

[emtp563]

Yes I do have a tripod. The flash I got is a Speedlite 270ex, and I'm planning on using my EFS 18-200mm zoom lens.

You shouldn't have gotten that flash- it's not very powerful. It "might" be ok if you're shooting subjects extremely close to you, but if what you're shooting if more than 25 feet away, I'm afraid you're wasting your time with that flash.

Your lens isn't the best either. However, you should be ok with it. It's not the best lens out there, but it's not the worst either. F/3.5 is relatively fast at 18mm, but as soon as you start using 200mm, your maximum aperture goes to f/5.6- that's too slow for what you're attempting to shoot. Set your camera to Av mode and open your aperture wide open. On that lens, it's f/3.5. On the 50D, don't be afraid to use a high ISO. You should be o.k. using ISO 1600-3200 on that camera.

One thing to keep in mind is camera shake, if you're zoomed to 200mm, you'll need a shutter speed of at least 1/320 to avoid camera shake. Adjust your ISO accordingly to keep the shutter speed > 1/320.

I'd try to go flashless and reserve the use of your 270EX for close-up shots.

[sdipirro]

OK, taking a step back for a moment, although this is taking place at night, obviously they're not shooting arrows in the dark and the competition will be illuminated...just not that well. So let's just say that the lighting won't be very good. You need some idea of the distance between you and the subjects. The 270EX doesn't have a long reach. It's not bad, but if you're pretty far from the action and shooting at 200mm, the flash might not do you much good. Once you slide the flash onto the hotshoe of the camera, you would position the flash head to point straight ahead for maximum illumination.

The tripod/monopod is only useful to reduce camera shake if you're shooting at slow shutter speeds. I doubt you'll be doing that if you're trying to capture arrows in flight. If you want to capture night scenes with the natural light of the scene, then you might want a tripod to shoot with a slow shutter speed.

What you'll definitely want to try is the biggest aperture your lens will allow, a shutter speed that will freeze action (1/250 or faster), and a high ISO setting to get the proper exposure without a flash. If you're close enough to the action to use the flash, you can back down on the ISO setting.

[MichaelBernard]

My first though is to not use a flash - that's a sure way to make people (and the contestants) angry with you. So that leaves it up to fast glass -

This, but I'd say go with a fast prime, like a 85mm f/1.8. Imagine flashing the archers every time they release...it's going to get old quick. Crank the iso a bit, open up the lens, let it fly.

[ilumo]

This, but I'd say go with a fast prime, like a 85mm f/1.8. Imagine flashing the archers every time they release...it's going to get old quick. Crank the iso a bit, open up the lens, let it fly.

+1 flash them a few times, they might turn their bows on you... :o

[Tarzanman]

If you are shooting any kind of movement at night that requires fast shutter speeds (anything faster than 1/120) then you're going to need:
• A tripod
• Fast prime lenses with large apertures (f/1.8 or larger)
• ISO cranked up to the maximum range that will still give you good photos (1600 or more)
• Noise ninja or some other noise management software
• A good working knowledge of how to work your camera's light metering and how to bracket.

A flash (even a weak one) is still a good idea. You might be able to get some good rear-curtain sync shots.

How well the venue is lit will play a HUGE role in how your photos turn out. If they are doing any kind of professional video then you'll probably have good enough light to shoot fast action.

[Lulula]

+1 flash them a few times, they might turn their bows on you... :o
lool!! It's a good thing this is only an opening ceremony, the contestants won't be playing on this day, the matches begin on the second day. So yea.. I won't be needing continuous shots for arrows, I just thought it would be a good way to capture the event.

Unfortunately, there are no shops to rent lenses where I live, so I'm going to have to work with the gear I have.

Tarzanman, I think the venue will be lit pretty well, it's the African championship, so I guess there will be a TV crew filming.


Thank you all for your tips!!! They've been really helpful! I'll print this whole thread and the replies and keep it with me in case I want to get back to it :D

[themadman]

Thank you all for your tips!!! They've been really helpful! I'll print this whole thread and the replies and keep it with me in case I want to get back to it :D

Save a couple trees and just bookmark it =P

[MichaelBernard]

so I guess there will be a TV crew filming.


Steal their light :) They will undoubtedly have the shoulder mounted light or a few continuous lights going...stand behind and to the side... I used this trick while documenting the creation of a tv commercial when all I had was my lowly f/2.8 lens.

Save a couple trees and just bookmark it =P

Paper is already created, if she uses her PC (power) she's burning coal or using nuclear power... It always comes from somewhere :p

[Lulula]

Save a couple trees and just bookmark it =P
I would.. but I'm not going to drag my laptop along with me through the whole event, maybe I could just write down the important notes in my note book :D how about that? =P

[Lulula]

Steal their light :) They will undoubtedly have the shoulder mounted light or a few continuous lights going...stand behind and to the side... I used this trick while documenting the creation of a tv commercial when all I had was my lowly f/2.8 lens.

Good idea!!!!!!!!!

[Ianfp]

Perhaps meanwhile, you could practice some indoor photos with available lighting to get a feel for using high ISO settings. You will need to keep the shutter at a reasonable speed and will probably have to use the lens wide open to maximise the amount of light for correct exposure.
Good luck and I hope it all goes well!

[Lulula]

Thanks Ian! Yes that's what I'm doing at the moment :D
I hope it goes well too!! Honestly it seems like a nightmare right now!

[garys1]

To get a rough idea on the settings:
1. Set your iso to auto
2. Set Cam to Manual
3. Select widest aperture for your lens
4. Select shutter speed
5. Take the shot
Bring up the pic in camera and see if it's acceptable. If it is note what iso the camera selected that should be your starting point. If there's too much noise, you can back off the iso or lower the shutter speed. If the pic is too dark try increasing the exposure compensation a stop at a time.

[MichaelBernard]

To get a rough idea on the settings:
1. Set your iso to auto
2. Set Cam to Manual
3. Select widest aperture for your lens
4. Select shutter speed
5. Take the shot
Bring up the pic in camera and see if it's acceptable. If it is note what iso the camera selected that should be your starting point. If there's too much noise, you can back off the iso or lower the shutter speed. If the pic is too dark try increasing the exposure compensation a stop at a time.

Really? I don't trust auto iso that much

[Lulula]

How can I tell what iso the camera selected?

[garys1]

Really? I don't trust auto iso that much

Neither do I but at least it gives a starting point rather than guessing.

[garys1]

How can I tell what iso the camera selected?

When you view the image, press the info button on the back of your camera...it'll show you all the settings for the picture.

[pearts]

put a two or three layers of the thin plastic bags (that you get from most supermarkets, chain stores, etc when you shop ) over the top of your flash, to spread the light out a bit, and cut down on burnt out cheeks, chins, and noses...

also shoot in as high a iso (800 to 1600), so that the background won't just be black past the people, and be in shutter mode, set to 1/125 - 1/250th this way the camera can tighen the fstop if your looking into a suddenly bright scene.

keep in mind that you can't take any group shots with your fstop wide open, as you have very little depth of field, so the peopl on the ends wil be blurry.. you would need to tighten the fstop to fix that and I doubt you will have the light for that.

[wunhang]

A note about the Auto-ISO.... on the 50D, it will only go up to 1600. Depending on your lighting, you may have to go beyond that.

[anthony11]

One thing to keep in mind is camera shake, if you're zoomed to 200mm, you'll need a shutter speed of at least 1/320 to avoid camera shake. Adjust your ISO accordingly to keep the shutter speed > 1/320.
18-200 has IS, no?
Unfortunately, there are no shops to rent lenses where I live, so I'm going to have to work with the gear I have.
Your profile doesn't say where you are, but if you're in the US, you can rent from eg. lensrentals.com. You also might be able to buy something off craigslist, use it, and sell it again for the same price if you don't want to keep it.

[oldvultureface]

To get a rough idea on the settings:
1. Set your iso to auto
2. Set Cam to Manual ...

The OP is using a 50D. The 50D in manual mode with auto ISO set will not shift ISO to maintain exposure. With those settings, the camera defaults to ISO 400.

[Diamond Dave]

You're not looking to publish these in National Geographic, right? You just want halfway decent snapshot quality pics to commemorate the event?

Set everything to auto and shoot away.

Otherwise, you may have an aneurysm trying to learn the finer points of flash photography between now and then.

[Craign]

Think a long time about using flash for an event. Be prepared for anything. There might be more available light for the opening ceremony than is anticipated but it is likely to be uneven. Get as much information about the ceremony as possible. Your positioning could be critical. Practice at night, an athletic event is good or in a parking lot would be better than nothing. You might even get lucky and shoot something where your event will occur. Practice, practice, practice. Absolutely no flash during competition.

[5x5 photography]

18-200 has IS, no?


Yes it does have IS and it works pretty well. That would help a lot for low light shots on still subjects.
The 18-200 is not a bad lens but I would think a faster lens would be a better option.
I use the 17-55 f/2.8 for a lot of low light photography keeping the shutter speeds over 125th. There will be some noise but after some NR and resizing it is invisible.

[eosphotomanoftennessee]

Hum, tripod shooting a sports event, that would be interesting. You will at the very least need a 2.8 lens, with IS. Flash fill might be good also but not sure since we can't see the event lighting from here. I shoot soccer and football games at night and have not ever used flash for them (don't think the coaches would like that either, have you ever seen a flash go off during a college or pro football game? Come to think of it, I haven't seen a tripod used at one either). A monopod might be handy especially for a long event. You will want to shoot pretty much wide open for being able to use as low of iso as possible. Don't plan to capture the arrow in flight without a flash or strobe, your exposure should be set for the drawback pose and the resulting target hit.

[ns@flowcentric.net]

Hi Lulula. Where is the championship? You said it is the African Champs. I am both a Archer and Photographer and the only Shootout I know about is the SANAF Champs in March?

[mouettus]

The OP is using a 50D. The 50D in manual mode with auto ISO set will not shift ISO to maintain exposure. With those settings, the camera defaults to ISO 400.

yeah I'v always wondered why. would you care to explain?

[Skip Souza]

Tweet! Tweet! Everybody out of the pool!

Thread closed temporarily for repairs.

[Skip Souza]

We now return to our regular programming.

Posts with off topic personal attacks have been deleted. Further such posts will result in a time out for the posters.

[oldvultureface]

yeah I'v always wondered why. would you care to explain?

It's just the way the firmware is programmed. The 7D will shift ISO in manual mode to maintain "proper" exposure; your shutter speed and aperture remain as you set them. I wanted the OP to know that auto ISO would be set at 400 (in manual mode) and wouldn't change unless she changed it.