Wide angle lens question

[Absolutely Fabulous]

I've heard they cause distortion and have seen it a few times in pics.
Is it a absolute? Or is it the technique? at what point does it happen?
Under 50 under 35?

TIA:D

[skygod44]

Hey Tia,
Here's a snapshot of my nephew I took at Christmas in the UK precisely to show my niece what 10mm FL on a crop camera looks like.

So, yes, wide angle lenses can cause distortion-a-plenty!

But this is also a function of the relative distance between me and the subject. Here, my nephew's hand was close to the minimum focusing distance for my lens ( = about 24cm from the sensor!) filling the frame quite a lot!

And you can minimise the distortion by keeping the camera flat (not pointing up or down) and not left or right of the centre of the subject.

Or you can use the distortion to exaggerate aspects of the subject. Look in the lens thread here -> EF-S10-22 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=312255) to see what I mean.

Cheers!
Simon

PS: The closer you get to a FL of 0mm, the bigger the distortion...as to where it's noticeable, I'd say on a crop camera, lower than 35mm and you need to be cautious if you want to avoid distorting subjects...especially people's noses!!!!

[mike_d]

The wider the angle, the more distortion you'll get. Unless you're using a fisheye, straight lines will stay straight but what ever's in the center of the frame tends to look farther away from you (unless its really close to the lens) while the edges get stretched. You're trying to squish more "stuff" into the frame as the focal length decreases so something's got to give. You'll see this more on a full frame sensor since it uses more of the image circle cast by the lens. Wide angles tend to be more sensitive to perspective shift, ie how you tilt/angle the camera towards the subject.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Thanks you guys!

FYI Simon, TIA = thanks in advance. Not my name ;)

So how low can I go without having an issue?

[skygod44]

Thanks you guys!

FYI Simon, TIA = thanks in advance. Not my name ;)

So how low can I go without having an issue?
I did wonder....:o
But I've always liked the name "Tia" ;)

As to how low?
Up to you...
If you shoot landscapes from a fair distance back on a FF camera, 24mm should be safe.
If you shoot people, below 35mm, at all close and you could be in trouble pretty quickly...
Best to try some lenses on your camera in the shop and see where you want to stop.

[SkipD]

I've heard they cause distortion and have seen it a few times in pics.
Is it a absolute? Or is it the technique? at what point does it happen?
Under 50 under 35?The "distortion" you are referring to is not lens distortion in the true sense (typically pincushion or barrel distortion). It is perspective distortion. "Wide angle perspective distortion" is caused by being too close to the subject, and is not caused by the focal length per se.

For more information on perspective and how to control it, please read our "sticky" (now found in the General Photography Talk forum) tutorial titled Perspective Control in Images - Focal Length or Distance? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=672913).

[toxic]

"Perspective distortion" is a myth. The only distortion wide-angles are susceptible to are barrel and wavy-line.

Perspective Control in Images - Focal Length or Distance? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=672913)

[philwillmedia]

Depends what you call "having an issue"
If you are wanting that particular effect, it's not an issue.
If you get a lens that wide, you are getting it for a reason.

Both results are what I was after

10-22 on 40D
433299

10mm Sigma Fisheye
433300

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I saw a pro recently do a shoot with a 24L and the model didn't look right. It clearly just didn't work as well as it could for whatever reason. I also have heard a wider FL could distort facial features but hadn't really dived into the topic until now, as the widest lens I have currently is 85mm

[SkipD]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I saw a pro recently do a shoot with a 24L and the model didn't look right. It clearly just didn't work as well as it could for whatever reason. I also have heard a wider FL could distort facial features but hadn't really dived into the topic until now, as the widest lens I have currently is 85mmDid you read the tutorial Perspective Control in Images - Focal Length or Distance? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=672913) that was posted twice above? If you have not, please take the time to read it thoroughly.

What you're referring to is the result of the camera being TOO CLOSE to the subject.

[egordon99]

If you had kept and used your 24-105L, you would be able to experiment with a wide variety of focal lengths, including 24mm.

Shooting wide is fun, but it's very tricky to compose "good" shots. Like Skip said, the "distortion" is a "side-effect" of being close enough to the subject to fill the frame. With a longer lens, you can stand farther back to get the same framing, so the "perspective" is quite different.

Working on controlling your compositions via subject distance (along with focal length of course) is a great skill to have.

Please read Skip's article, it should clear up a lot for you. Good luck!

[PhotosGuy]

The wider the angle, the more distortion you'll get... ...and the closer that you are to your subject, the more apparent "distortion" you'll see. But that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Learn how to make it work for you, instead of against you.

20mm/film scan:

433362

[blackhawk]

Hey Tia,
Here's a snapshot of my nephew I took at Christmas in the UK precisely to show my niece what 10mm FL on a crop camera looks like.

So, yes, wide angle lenses can cause distortion-a-plenty!

But this is also a function of the relative distance between me and the subject. Here, my nephew's hand was close to the minimum focusing distance for my lens ( = about 24cm from the sensor!) filling the frame quite a lot!

And you can minimise the distortion by keeping the camera flat (not pointing up or down) and not left or right of the centre of the subject.

Or you can use the distortion to exaggerate aspects of the subject. Look in the lens thread here -> EF-S10-22 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=312255) to see what I mean.

Cheers!
Simon

PS: The closer you get to a FL of 0mm, the bigger the distortion...as to where it's noticeable, I'd say on a crop camera, lower than 35mm and you need to be cautious if you want to avoid distorting subjects...especially people's noses!!!!

Ha-ha, you made you point! Models need to keep their noses and assets out of wide lens... or risk the dire consequences!

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Did you read the tutorial Perspective Control in Images - Focal Length or Distance? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=672913) that was posted twice above? If you have not, please take the time to read it thoroughly.

What you're referring to is the result of the camera being TOO CLOSE to the subject.

I did read it afterwards but I was merely responding to another comment.

If you had kept and used your 24-105L, you would be able to experiment with a wide variety of focal lengths, including 24mm.

Shooting wide is fun, but it's very tricky to compose "good" shots. Like Skip said, the "distortion" is a "side-effect" of being close enough to the subject to fill the frame. With a longer lens, you can stand farther back to get the same framing, so the "perspective" is quite different.

Working on controlling your compositions via subject distance (along with focal length of course) is a great skill to have.

Please read Skip's article, it should clear up a lot for you. Good luck!

I don't get the first bit of your reply, please do not respond to my threads if you must always dig at me.

The person in question who had the distortion in her pic was a top pro, hence why I was more curious on the subject.

I still am unsure though as to what FL would be best to get if I want to go wider than 85. Maybe I'll figure that out another way

[20droger]

I still am unsure though as to what FL would be best to get if I want to go wider than 85. Maybe I'll figure that out another way
The choice of focal length is really a choice of angle/field of view. It has to do with what you wish to capture and how far away from it do you wish to be when you capture it.

For example, let us say you wish to capture a head and shoulders shot of a person, without cropping, and that you are using a FF sensor in portrait position. The field for that would be about 2 feet. At a distance of 10 feet from the subject, a focal length of 120mm would be required.

For a camera with an APS-C sensor, that would be a focal length of 75mm.

Put another way, what focus distances would be required to capture the same subject with 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 100mm, 135mm, and 150mm lenses?

28mm = 2.3 ft
35mm = 2.9 ft
50mm = 4.2 ft
85mm = 7.1 ft
100mm = 8.3 ft
135mm = 11.3 ft
150mm = 12.5 ft

All those distance and lens combinations will produce a head and shoulders shot of the subject. However, since the closer you are to the subject, the more exaggerated the close features (nose) will appear, the longer lenses produce more pleasing portraits. This is why the 85mm and 135m are considered portrait lenses.

If you are using camera with a a 1.6× sensor, the equivalent distances would be:

18mm = 2.4 ft
28mm = 3.7 ft
35mm = 4.7 ft
50mm = 6.7 ft
85mm = 11.3 ft
100mm = 13.3 ft
135mm = 18 ft
150mm = 20 ft

The 50mm and 100mm would be portrait lenses for this camera.

[2mnycars]

Proportion/distortion

You've made a good point. It can work for you if you wish.

When I first went to the Nikon School in Ottawa, about '73 (OMG!) the pro had a portrait of an old guy who had seen many, many bars. He had used a 24mm lens. Lots of character lines, and the fellow's nose!!

So for portraits a 90-105 mm lens with 35 mm film or sensor size has much more pleasing perspective. IMO.

Hope this helps.

DaveL
Toronto