Facebook and high school seniors.....how I do it.

[sevillafox]

Since Facebook is becoming more and more popular these days as a way of marketing I thought I'd share how I'm working it with regards to high school seniors. ;)

I'm in my second year of really pushing seniors and using facebook.

Last spring I decided I needed some senior reps. So, I hit up facebook.

There are ways to search by class and school.....you can use the search for classmates tool...you might have to change your profile to that class in order to do it. I honestly don't remember the specifics because I have an "in" as my day job is as a high school teacher.

So, what you do is send a friend request to a few high school kids. When you send a friend request make sure and include a message explaining who you are and why you want to be their friend (so they don't think you're a creeper) and make sure and add them to a friend list. I have a list for class of 2010, 2011, and yes even 2012.

Once kids start accepting your friend requests go through their friend lists and look for more kids. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

I also keep an eye out for kids that look (based on their profile pics) like they would be photogenic and are in the following graduation class. So, as I was searching for class of 2010, I would come across 2011 kids and send them a request as well.

This builds you a base to start marketing to.

Then, I used the event option in facebook to create an event. I titled it "senior model search" or something similar. I included details, photos, web links, etc. Then, I invited all the kids in my class list (depending on which class I am marketing to). The event feature is super nice as it gives you feedback. You can see who is maybe thinking about working with you, those that decline, and those that are definitely wanting to work with you. You can also message your entire guest list with updates, reminders, etc. When sending messages from your personal account you are limited to just 20 people so being able to message them all at once is great!

I mainly use my personal page to market with because with a fan page you don't get notifications of when people become fans, comment, or write on your wall.

I also use my status to keep my name out there reminding kids of my current promo etc.

As your senior season draws to a close you can easily purge friends who didn't use you. Before you do though, once again sort through their friend lists and check for people from the following two years. Then, delete! HAHAHA. You've made it easy as you have them on a specific list.

I know for a fact this works. Last year I had 3 reps from local schools. This year I had 21 applicants and will be working with 15 kids. Many of them are those kids that I contacted as sophomores.

Another thing I have been doing as well is logging onto facebook chat as I'm working on this or just dinking off on facebook in general. A number of kids have contacted me this way. I also make sure and watch my comments. If someone comments on a photo I took I make sure and gently point out that I'm looking for a model/rep or having a promotion or something.

Another thing I plan to do is have my model/reps suggest me as a friend to kids in their schools as well as post any promos or anything to their statuses as well.

ETA: I also always tag the kids in their pictures and, many times the parents request to be a friend as well and so I will also tag the parent in the photo. That way I know the parents' friends (the other moms and dads that have the checkbook) will see the images as well.


ETA2: Make sure and HIDE your friend list. No sense helping out the competition if they decided to poach all of your hard work and steal your friend list. Trust me.

ETA3: (9/13/10): I've started getting my marketing list together for class of 2012. What I have done is enlisted the help of my senior models and even other clients. They get $1 print credit for every person they suggest to me as a friend from class of 2012 up to $50. They are loving it because it's easy print credit. I love it because it's WAY easier and less time consuming than searching them out myself.

So, that's what's been working for me.




SAMPLE WORDING

Friend request looking for models for current year



Hi! I'm a senior photographer in Belmont, WI and I'm currently looking for senior models to represent my studio for the class of 20xx. You can earn your pictures for free and earn other goodies and cash! Check out the details here: http://rfpstudio.com/information/, read the fine print: http://rfpstudio.com/the-fine-print/, and apply!!! http://rfpstudio.com/apply/

I hope to work with you!

Tiffany Austin
rfp studio



Friend request if I find someone interesting from the following year's class




Hi!! I know it's super early to think about senior portraits but I came across your profile on facebook and I think you would make a super senior rep next year! I just wanted to friend you early so I can keep in touch with you.

My website is: http:rfpstudio.com (http://red-fox-photography.com/)

Thanks!

Tiffany Austin
rfp studio

And for an event promo:




Hi, I am a senior photographer in Belmont, WI and am currently holding a great summer promo sale where you get 50% off your session fee and a free photo dog tag for booking by July 4th. If you want to see some of my recent work, friend me and check out my photo albums. The invitation to the special sale is here: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref...d=116562975398 (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=logo#/event.php?eid=116562975398)

Thanks!

Tiffany Austin
rfp studio

[zachbreaux]

Thanks for the helpful tips!

[RWatkins]

Its refreshing to see someone use sites like this, rather then to complain about not getting business.

[pauld1946]

Thanks, very interesting.

[morabid]

Great IDEA! Thanks for the tip. I will give it a try this year.

[aebrown]

Awesome idea, now if only i had the time!

[sevillafox]

Awesome idea, now if only i had the time!

It IS time consuming to be sure. But, worth it!

[cdifoto]

Nice writeup. I have the entire girls' basketball squad on my fb now. Same/similar process except for athletics. I upload their pics and tag 'em as well as encourage them to tag themselves. It's now at the point where their friends are adding me rather than the other way around. :cool:

I'm not purging anyone though. Seems a little too cash-centric to do that, IMHO. Besides, they may have siblings and/or get married one day. :)

[aebrown]

Quick question, are you using your personal facebook to do this, or did you create a page that specifically handles your studio?

[sevillafox]

Nice writeup. I have the entire girls' basketball squad on my fb now. Same/similar process except for athletics. I upload their pics and tag 'em as well as encourage them to tag themselves.

I'm not purging anyone though. Seems a little too cash-centric to do that, IMHO.

:lol:

I just got tired of seeing their pics they had taken elsewhere. And, I wasn't as good about organizing my stuff when I started so my friends list was way cluttered.

Good point on the siblings too. But, I don't do weddings so I'm not worried about that. :lol:

[sevillafox]

Quick question, are you using your personal facebook to do this, or did you create a page that specifically handles your studio?

Personal page.

I don't keep my biz page up to date and well, you can't tag anyone that you aren't already friends with anyway.

Plus, with the biz page you don't get notifications when people post on your wall or comment and that drives me crazy!

[cdifoto]

Oh and one thing you have to be careful of is how often you update your status with promotional tidbits. People CAN hide their friends from their newsfeed and if you get annoying, they will make use of that feature.

[sevillafox]

Oh and one thing you have to be careful of is how often you update your status with promotional tidbits. People CAN hide their friends from their newsfeed and if you get annoying, they will make use of that feature.



Yeppers! Which is why I tend to be careful about how much I post about it and what else I post.

[Permagrin]

the one thing about doing it with the personal page is that you have to be careful what you post...so as to not be unprofessional. I use my business page for my contacts because they can't see my personal page. But then again, I don't friend them either...so the traffic isn't as high.

Maybe making a separate ID just for this sort of thing (business) might be the answer?

[Permagrin]

Oh and one thing you have to be careful of is how often you update your status with promotional tidbits. People CAN hide their friends from their newsfeed and if you get annoying, they will make use of that feature.


that's true. I have several hidden for this very reason.

[cdifoto]

Yeah I tend to infuse some personal stuff, comment on their pics, etc. Part of it is marketing but I've gotten to like these kids so it's personal too. We get a little banter going on at times.

A couple cheerleaders added me the other day. Hopefully the rest follow suit soon. I don't know who they are so I can't go stalkin.'..err I mean searching for...'em.

[aebrown]

Personal page.

I don't keep my biz page up to date and well, you can't tag anyone that you aren't already friends with anyway.

Plus, with the biz page you don't get notifications when people post on your wall or comment and that drives me crazy!

However, couldn't you just create a business page in the guise of a person? I don't know how facebook works with business pages only personal ones, sorry!

[sevillafox]

Permie, I've heard of people doing the separate accounts thing but, well, I'm just too lazy. Plus, I have some of my students as friends so I typically guard what I post anyway.

[cdifoto]

the one thing about doing it with the personal page is that you have to be careful what you post...so as to not be unprofessional. I use my business page for my contacts because they can't see my personal page. But then again, I don't friend them either...so the traffic isn't as high.

Maybe making a separate ID just for this sort of thing (business) might be the answer?

I've sortof taken the "screw professionalism" approach. I mix personal with business because, after all, I AM my business. I don't want to be stodgy, stale, and unapproachable. I don't really have to be careful about what I post either, because I don't tend to do the twittery "oooo I'm poopin' and it hurts" kind of nonsense anyway.

Besides, those basketball chicks are filthier than I am anyway.

[Permagrin]

I've sortof taken the "screw professionalism" approach. I mix personal with business because, after all, I AM my business. I don't want to be stodgy, stale, and unapproachable. I don't really have to be careful about what I post either, because I don't tend to do the twittery "oooo I'm poopin' and it hurts" kind of nonsense anyway.
:lol::lol::lol:

[sevillafox]

Good point don! I frequently post about my kids and I also tag clients in my statuses so they see that I'm thinking about them, working on their stuff, etc. It makes them feel important. Lots of times I will post that I had a great session with a client and they return the favor by saying they had a great time with me and love my stuff. Seniors like to be talked about. :lol:

[cdifoto]

Indeed. I tag the crap out of 'em, sometimes post a basketball photo that makes 'em look bad and caption it with something funny, etc.

I have one pic that shows a player with her eyes closed. She commented something like "omg this is embarrassing" and I responded along the lines of "you think that's embarrassing? you should see what I deleted!"

That kinda thing. I also have a pic of 'em doing each others' hair before the game. I captioned it "slumber party" :)

[wardzach2007]

That's a good idea.

My friend & I just created our own seperate page specifically for our photo business.

We check it daily so notifications don't worry us. It's a better idea if you are in a partnership with someone else. That a way you can share the password.

[sevillafox]

Somehow that doesn't surprise me don. :lol:

[NeoSoulPhoto]

Great idea. I would make a separate "Fan Page" Though.

[sevillafox]

To each their own. ;) You still have to go through the work of finding the kids and friending them in order to tag them. Then, you have to get them to become a fan as well. :lol:

[cdifoto]

Yeah I don't separate because it's kinda pointless. It's also slightly creepier to hit a teenage girl with a random business page.

If Snapple invited me to be a fan, I'd probably reject it. If someone who WORKED for Snapple (esp the CEO) invited me to be their friend, I'd probably accept. And I'm not even a teenager, plus I do know who/what Snapple is.

[Permagrin]

Yeah I don't separate because it's kinda pointless. It's also slightly creepier to hit a teenage girl with a random business page.

If Snapple invited me to be a fan, I'd probably reject it. If someone who WORKED for Snapple (esp the CEO) invited me to be their friend, I'd probably accept. And I'm not even a teenager, plus I do know who/what Snapple is.

lol.
That's so funny. I think exactly the opposite. If someone representing a business "friended" me I'd be creeped out. If I got an invitation from a business I'd check it out. I don't want to be friends with the people I hire (or vice versa), I just want the product.

Fafa you are right though, I have the "page" and it's a PIB to get them to "fan" it. But I think a separate ID for my business, to friend them (following your suggestions) is a good idea.

[cdifoto]

lol.
That's so funny. I think exactly the opposite. If someone representing a business "friended" me I'd be creeped out. If I got an invitation from a business I'd check it out. I don't want to be friends with the people I hire (or vice versa), I just want the product.

Fafa you are right though, I have the "page" and it's a PIB to get them to "fan" it. But I think a separate ID for my business, to friend them (following your suggestions) is a good idea.

To my mind, if you're not a friend you're just a commodity. As a commodity, you're right up there with the likes of Wal-Mart. People buy from you but mostly because you're cheap, not because they appreciate you. If you're a friend, they like you, and they wouldn't even think of going to someone else.

My facebook is a bit of a hybrid. I have my personal name attached but my profile image is my logo. If I just had a headshot there I think it would creep the youngin's out because, after all, I'm male, 28 and they're jailbait. With the logo as my image, they know {{THAT}} is not why I'm adding them.

[Permagrin]

To my mind, if you're not a friend you're just a commodity. As a commodity, you're right up there with the likes of Wal-Mart. People buy from you but mostly because you're cheap, not because they appreciate you.

or because you are better than the competition
or because you have more to offer etc

Really, there are probably consumers like you and like me out there.

[cdifoto]

or because you are better than the competition
or because you have more to offer etc

Really, there are probably consumers like you and like me out there.

Better than the competition? Hardly. GREAT photography is so easy these days. Anyone with half a mind to it can do it. I don't try to sell that either.

[sevillafox]

ETA: I also always tag the kids in their pictures and, many times the parents request to be a friend as well and so I will also tag the parent in the photo. That way I know the parents' friends (the other moms and dads that have the checkbook) will see the images as well.

[CosmoKid]

Couple of things regarding using your personal page:
1- Can't you create security "levels" for groups? If you put all of them into a client group and then restrict what specifically they can see it will take out a small piece of the personalization. I would restrict them with certain things.

2- The pictures I post are personal pictures. Sure, my Facebook page has my "professional" pictures but 1000 snaps of my kids or a picture of me from Halloween 15 years ago isn't something I would want to use to represent myself.

[cdifoto]

I don't have kids but the pics of my nephews that I post are awesome. I'm not ashamed of those. ;)

[sevillafox]

Eh, I leave my snaps but I don't often put them up. I mostly put up my pro pics of my kids if anything. Ah, a home studio is a beautiful thing. :)

[cdifoto]

I don't have a studio but my snaps kick ass. If anything, it draws the chicks. Chicks love kids.

[CosmoKid]

I don't have a studio but my snaps kick ass. If anything, it draws the chicks. Chicks love kids.

i like my snaps. i don't just throw anything up there. but a scanned pic of me painted blue as Papa Smurf from college or a mobile upload of me inside the booth voting for Bob Barr isn't portfolio material...lol.

[Permagrin]

i like my snaps. i don't just throw anything up there. but a scanned pic of me painted blue as Papa Smurf from college or a mobile upload of me inside the booth voting for Bob Barr isn't portfolio material...lol.

LOL Joe!! :lol::lol::lol:

maybe we have more of a past to hide than Don does :lol:
(and that just makes me lmao)

[cdifoto]

You SHOULD post that!

Yah yer right, Perms. My past is still in front of me. ;) :D

[msfvirginia]

Great thread, lots of things to think about!!!

I never thought to tag the parents of the kids. There are times that I wished the kids of some of the parents I had on facebook would be on facebook so I could tag them. :)

[msfvirginia]

I guess ive been overlooking the "list" feature in facebook all this time, just found it. If you put someone on a list, are you the only one that see's it, or is it public?

[Simply Ravishing]

Good stuff, I am still in the learning process for portrait stuff but I'll keep that in mind maybe next year when I start pursuing that stuff more.

[SoaringUSAEagle]

Hey, talk about a great free way to market yourself. I have done this and was going to do this again next month, but may start even sooner. I'm looking to shoot seniors primarily now anyway - and once I get a good chunk of business going - the rest is history :)

[joosay]

Great tips, thanks!

[joosay]

I was wondering what your senior portrait rates are?

[sevillafox]

*waves to jeff*


Joosay.....click on my site link...all info is there.

[scorpio_e]

I think it is a great idea. The only issue I am having is finding the graduation class for 2011. I am only pulling up classmates for 2010. Am I doing something wrong?

[Super Bee 950]

What you are doing is creative, but I would have a hard time with anyone directly marketing, or contacting my kids on facebook. I have on rule that I require my kids to follow on Facebook. They are forbidden from friending anyone they dont personally know, or have face to face contact with. I have access to their accounts, and I watch what they do. In my book, thats called Parenting :)

Just be aware that your method could backfire on you big time if you run into a parent who has a real issue with adults trying to be a facebook friend to a minor child on the internet. In my case it would be a face to face visit with you

[Shamir]

Normally the word is spread all by itself.. What I did was:

I took a girl that is in 11th grade and made a photoshoot for her. Afterwards I gave her a CD with all the proofs with my name on it. She uploads them to facebook and after that I comment on some pictures, lets say, my favorites. People sees the picture, the watermark, my comment and just add me.

That way I dont seem like any stalker, even though im only 17 right now and im in a large schoolar network =) ..

[carshop]

Great ideas, folks.

[joosay]

I started a cheap ad campaign on Facebook as well (pending review).

[WillMass]

A wealth of information here Tiffany. Thanks for sharing!!

[fireman949]

Tiffany may be able to get away with it, but I'm 29, male, and athletic (ok, I'm a fat slob - I like to embellish). I start "friending" 16 y/o softmore's in HighSchool and I'm going to hit someones radar somewhere - aside from my wife and mother-in-law.

Why a business page may work better:
* For me, it's just as easy to create a business page that someone can 'fan' and then tag themselves. Give something away - even if it is 4 wallets.. kids know free - fanning and tagging themselves is easy to get 4 free wallets.

* You may be more likely for kids to 'fan' a page than friend a stranger - they fan pages like it's going out of style. While their at your studio - get them to fan you and 'suggest' that all their friends fan you for more freebies (probably the only way you can confirm that is at the studio in person).

*Professionalism - a 'become a fan' page has a more professional feel to it in my personal opinion. You can also have a custom FBML first page that has links to your site and 'become a fan' right in their face. This page (http://www.facebook.com/hylesanderson) is a good example of that.

* I like to keep my personal, political, family, (name it) life out of my business. My opinion on un-related issues should never be something I promote to my clients and having a business page is a good separation.

Someone mentioned creating an additional profile (or person) for separation but this is against Facebook policy. Will you get caught - probably not, but let a jealous local photographer find out you are making a killing of Facebook and broke a TOS, it's not hard to find the 'report a fake profile' link. When people get hungry they either get busy or get nasty.

Hope that helps - these are just my opinions - I love the ideas!

[leroy_sunset]

Just be aware that your method could backfire on you big time if you run into a parent who has a real issue with adults trying to be a facebook friend to a minor child on the internet. In my case it would be a face to face visit with you

Wow, blowhards on the internet. That's original.

OP, nice job using new media to make some cash.

[Bonish Photo]

I have a good friend who got into the high school sports side of photography.

She told me that her Facebook marketing it the #1 way she gets referrals and attracks new clients. She also gives a proof CD with very scaled down images that are watermarked to the kids she photographs and tells them that in exchange for the proof CD, they have to tag her on all the photos they post on Facebook

Its done very well for her and she's booked solid for portrait secessions

Great advice and good to see someone else using this tool to better their business

[msfvirginia]

Well I finally took the plunge and started this new campagn. : )

So far I have friend requested 36 kids from 3 local high schools, and 7 have already accepted. But no messages about being a model/rep or about commissioning me to do their senior pictures.

Do I need to contact them again after a while to see if they need someone?

How do you all take your booking deposit/retainer? Get them to paypal it, mail a check?

[cdifoto]

What you are doing is creative, but I would have a hard time with anyone directly marketing, or contacting my kids on facebook. I have on rule that I require my kids to follow on Facebook. They are forbidden from friending anyone they dont personally know, or have face to face contact with. I have access to their accounts, and I watch what they do. In my book, thats called Parenting :)

Just be aware that your method could backfire on you big time if you run into a parent who has a real issue with adults trying to be a facebook friend to a minor child on the internet. In my case it would be a face to face visit with you

That's obviously your right as a parent to do, but you might be in the minority. I have probably 100, maybe even 200 kids from four different schools on my facebook now ranging in age from 12 to 18 as well as some of their parents. If it backfires, it will only be with the parents who are as umm...protective...as you are. I haven't encountered any of those so far.

It's also not really direct marketing because I'm not sending a message to each kid individually telling them about my services and pricing or special offers. It's more along the lines of "accept my friend request if you want to and if you do, you'll see my news feed which may or may not contain special deals and photos."

Having said that, I do have a slight "in" as the first 2 dozen kids I added were from the basketball team and it blew up from there.

As far as that face-to-face visit goes, I hope you'd remain civil. Sitting in a jail cell overnight would be setting a poor example for your children.

[joosay]

I've heard of psycho ex-significant others but I guess there's other types too :)

Anyway, I've been doing some light facebook marketing...I am focusing on getting a website right now though but I feel like I need more content before I get a website.

[pcj]

My day job is IT security, including social network security / ID security - so while this whole campaign has my day job spidey senses tingling, I have to admire it as an awesome way to use new media to it's fullest!

I don't shoot high schoolers, but I do use Facebook as much as I can for my target market, and just have to agree that the most powerful tools are:

Tagging - tag everyone in everything. Someone, at some point, will take exception to this - be polite, untag them, move on. I tag my dancer subjects in Notes, Photos, Status updates. Everything.

Commenting - Any dancer who posts a photo to their profile that I took, I comment something nice, and *always* leave a URL back to my Fanpage (I use a fanpage for my business, but don't object to anyone friending my personal account).

[msfvirginia]

update on my indevour.

Its been a few days, about half of the people that I sent a link to accepted, and I got 3 responses. I sent additional information to two of them a couple of days ago, but nothing back. The 3rd I dont know if they want to be a rep or just get pics done so im waiting for a response to find out what they want to know about.

Should I be sending a message to the others that accepted my friend request?

I think for now Ill take a mailed check or paypal payment for that $50 appointment deposit, until I find out a better way to do it.

[sevillafox]

Keep in mind....they don't always respond. Drives me CRAZY!!! GAH!! But, just keep bugging them. ;) If you see something in their status to comment on, do it but don't be a creeper. Keep your status updated. Upload photos. I try never to upload more than three photos at a time because if you do that, only the first three show in your feed and people won't see them.

Also, you need to upload them at the same time. If you upload one pic to an album and another half an hour later....it shows up with your earlier pic if you are posting to the same album.

Oh, and apparently the size limit increased from 604 px to 720px. Resize and sharpen accordingly before you upload and your pics look WAY better than letting FB resize.

[cdifoto]

Resize and sharpen accordingly before you upload and your pics look WAY better than letting FB resize.

I think they look like garbage no regardless. Facebook compresses the crap out of them. Probably on a percentage basis...ie no matter how many kb it is, they chop 60% or something away. heh.

[sevillafox]

Eh, I'm pretty happy with how mine look.

[cdifoto]

My facebook pics look like crap compared to the same exact files uploaded to my website/blog/proofing.

[sevillafox]

:lol: I'm sure they probably do. But, I'm not overly annoyed with how mine are on FB.

[cdifoto]

Since no one else cares and it gets my work out, I don't let it bother me anymore. I just don't see the point of trying to optimize for facebook. It doesn't seem to make a difference from my experience. Facebook sends them through a meat grinder regardless.

[sevillafox]

Well, I have mine all setup in an action. It resizes and sharpens for my web stuff and the resizes for fb and automatically saves both versions in different folders. Doesn't take me any extra work and looks marginally better to me.

[cdifoto]

I do that too. 3 sizes dropped into folders: 2400, 1024, 600. Watermark on 1024 and 600. 600 goes on the blog, proofing, and facebook. I just don't bother doing anything extra to compensate for facebook's overzealous compression. It's a losing proposition.

[msfvirginia]

Oh, and apparently the size limit increased from 604 px to 720px. Resize and sharpen accordingly before you upload and your pics look WAY better than letting FB resize.

I didnt know there was a size limit, Ive just been uploading the same files that I used for my blog, something like 800 to 1100 pixels on the long side. Good to know about the 720. I assume thats 720x720?

I got someone interested in being a model, even better shes at the nearest school to me. :) now to arrange a meeting and work out the details. But first, gotta find a contract to use!

[Electric Monk]

I think this is a great way to use facebook, however, I'm curious as to your thoughts on Facebook's terms regarding the use of photos uploaded to their site:


# Sharing Your Content and Information

You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings. In addition:

1. For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos ("IP content"), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook ("IP License"). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.
2. When you delete IP content, it is deleted in a manner similar to emptying the recycle bin on a computer. However, you understand that removed content may persist in backup copies for a reasonable period of time (but will not be available to others).
3. When you add an application and use Platform, your content and information is shared with the application. We require applications to respect your privacy settings, but your agreement with that application will control how the application can use the content and information you share. (To learn more about Platform, read our About Platform page.)
4. When you publish content or information using the "everyone" setting, it means that everyone, including people off of Facebook, will have access to that information and we may not have control over what they do with it.
5. We always appreciate your feedback or other suggestions about Facebook, but you understand that we may use them without any obligation to compensate you for them (just as you have no obligation to offer them).

[dbvirago]

That might work for a woman, especially a teacher, but when a 50+ year old man starts friending high school students so I can take their picture, pro shooter or not, that can get dicey.

[sevillafox]

Chris, watermark the pics. They can't alter them.

Darryl....I know of an elder gentleman that does in fact do this. :)

[msfvirginia]

I think facebooks terms just gives them permission for it to be up, and tagged, and show up around the site. Im not really worried about them stealing my low res image and using it. Plus theres watermarks. : )

How do you all design your grad books that are press printed? Do you do it yourself in photoshop using a combination of stock images and session images that you have, or do you use some sort of template that you purchased? Or some sort of automatic ordering process?

And more importantly how much control over each book do you give the clients? Do they just tell you that they want a book and you do it all yourself? Or do they get to approve it first, or are they involved in each step of the process? The more involved they are, the more of a headache it seems like it would be.

[sevillafox]

For my rep books....they pick the photos they want in it. I get to do the rest. I've just made a simple thing with my branding and slap an image in.

[msfvirginia]

When do seniors normally get the pictures done? Say the class of 2010 that will be graduating in June of this year, do they normally get them all done before June, or can they go later in the year?

Ive seen people offer deals if they get the pictures done before July 1st, so this got me wondering. I would have imagined that before June would be the best time for senior portraits. But the July 1st offer could be for the class of 2011 I guess.

[sevillafox]

Depends on where you are at. Here in WI kids usually get them done the summer before their senior year.

[msfvirginia]

So instead of sending emails to the class of 2010, I should be looking at the class of 2011? : ) Good to know. :D thanks again!

[msfvirginia]

Im having problems with facebook, I wonder if this is just me or if its all of facebook.

Before, I would go to the search screen with 3 parts, the middle being a classmate search.

I would type in the school name, wait for the list to come up, click on the school I wanted, then it would give me a slightly different list, then I could click on the school again and this time it would take. I would select the school year and do a search. I would normally get between 80 and 200 results.

When I do this now, when I select 2011 it just refreshes and takes me back to the search screen that I was just on. If I put in 2010 it would give me 1 or 2 results for the entire class.

I did have a problem last time I added a class/school. I took my time finding 10 students to message, but I sent the friend request all in a row and apparently that flagged some alarm and it gave me a warning that if I keep it up, my account could be froze or worse. I wonder if that could have something to do with it.

I hope its just a temporary system glitch.

[msfvirginia]

Im looking forward to when facebook fixes this problem and I can search for class of 2011. :) I wonder if there is a way around this.

3 people seemed interested from the class of 2010, but no replies to scheduling an appointment to talk more and sign the documents.

[sevillafox]

Not sure what's up with that.

I can suggest that you make your friend list invisible.

I had an issue yesterday where my local competition took the easy route and friended all the kids I had on my list. :evil:

[msfvirginia]

interesting idea about the invisible list. Perhaps the competition here has a full list.. jk. :)

[msfvirginia]

How do you make the list invisible? Ive looked around but dont see that option.

I really hope facebook would let us search for class of 2011 soon. That ability is still down.

[zachbreaux]

Facebook gets really pissy when you send out a lot of messages. LOL.

[sevillafox]

How do you make the list invisible? Ive looked around but dont see that option.

I really hope facebook would let us search for class of 2011 soon. That ability is still down.

It's in your profile privacy settings.

Facebook gets really pissy when you send out a lot of messages. LOL.

Yes, yes it does. :lol:

[msfvirginia]

Could the problem be on my end? I know of another person that is having the same search problems, but maybe he added/messaged a ton of people to.

Theres no problem searching for 2010 but problems with 2011.

[KrautFed]

I'm sort of in the same place as some of the posters. I'm looking to start my biz facebook account but still hung up on the business vs personal. I'm also concerned about the pervert factor... I'm a 27 male, very youthful, and don't consider myself ugly (:lol: :oops:). I've been able to work on professionalism by coaching youth for 5+ but when working with youth, there are always going to be possible problems, especially if its the youth stepping over the line.

I've definitely got a ton of questions about this and I'm glad I've found some people I can ask specific questions to. I'm gonna spend some time this weekend going over you guys/gals facebook accounts. Marketing is a full time job, let alone keeping up with Facebook and technology!

[sevillafox]

Found this link today. http://www.socialsmallbiz.com/2010/03/26/secrets-to-getting-traffic-from-facebook/

[WAD]

Thanks for all the wonderful information! When I start my biz, I will be following all your advice!

[L A Mac]

Great Stuff Tiffany, definitely worth looking into. Would you suggest I convert my personal account to geared more towards business without having an actual "Business Account" ?
Also, Your friends list. I assume you pare it down all the time? I figured you would have a lot more than 400 friends - or are you that successful with them?
Thanks for the great info-Mac

[sevillafox]

I don't know about axing your personal account. Depends on who you want seeing what. :lol: You can create lists and filter who sees what but I'm pretty lame and I am friends with my students as well so I keep mine tame.

I do prune friends if I need to. I axe the ones from the previous class as well as ones from the current class who have worked with another studio. I don't need a constant reminder that I wasn't good enough. :lol:

[msfvirginia]

Bumping a good thread. :)

I am about to sent a message to an entire list, at least I think I am. Ive added a bunch of 2011 seniors but not one reply. maybe they dont read the friend request additional info that I typed in? I thought I would send them a message about my upcoming special.

Just to make sure I get this right, I go to my messages screen in facebook, hit "new message" and instead of typing a friends name, I type in the list name such as "new york class 2011" and then type in the message and hit send. Or will that not work? Is there a limit to how many people it will send the message to in the list?

This will be my first mass message. :)

[sevillafox]

Yep. That's how it works. Except you can only message 20 people at a time.

That's why I like using the event feature.....you can message the whole list at once.

[L A Mac]

I thought that was considered spam if they were not in your friends list already?

[sevillafox]

You can only invite friends to an event as far as I know.

[msfvirginia]

when I think of an event, I think of a physical thing that happens on a certain day and time. so on facebook, an event can just be like a message? It doesn't have to be a certain day? Or would the date be like a deadline? This question feels like a stupid one.

[sevillafox]

Well, my senior model search is an event. It has an end date. So, I just utilize that feature.

[L A Mac]

This question feels like a stupid one.

The only stupid question is the unasked question. For some there is a learning curve that are new to FB....

[msfvirginia]

I'm not new on fb, but there's some features I've never used or paid attention to.

I was thinking of using facebook more to advertise that I do senior pictures, and to get seniors attention. I did post in the friend request that im considering models/representatives that if they are interested to let me know.

Sevilla, do you find your model search also gets the attention of all the seniors, or just the ones you added that you thought might be good models?

[sevillafox]

Well, to start with just the ones I add.

But, once I start posing pics I usually get friend requests from other kids and can expand my list.

[L A Mac]

Well, to start with just the ones I add.

But, once I start posing pics I usually get friend requests from other kids and can expand my list.

Sevillafox, are you posting their pics on your wall? (forgive me I have not looked yet. Also, why are you against an ad page? It seems you can target clients in your area. Did you create a fan page?

MSFvirginia, Sorry, I was speaking about myself being fairly new. I just read The complete Idiots Guide to Social Media marketing by Jennifer Abernathey (ISBN 9781592579891) which was just published. It filled in a lot of holes for me and my account on FB so I am on my way to getting things straight. Sevillafox, you have done a wonderful job at turning FB into a working marketing agency for yourself and I hope to learn more from you.

[sevillafox]

Oh, I'm not against anything. :lol:

I post the pics to an album on my personal page mainly because I like being able to get notifications of comments and such. And, well, I'm just too lazy to post them to my fan page all the time as well. :lol:

And, well, the ad.....I'm just too cheap. :lol: I know that I personally ignore them and don't want to waste cash on something like that. Just a personal preference I guess. :lol:

[zachbreaux]

So how are you feeling about the fan pages turning into "like" pages?

[Shamir]

So how are you feeling about the fan pages turning into "like" pages?

SOOOOOOOOO MAD AT IT -.- >:(

[pantherphotos]

So how are you feeling about the fan pages turning into "like" pages?

Yeah, not a real big fan of it either! "Dislike"!!!!

[msfvirginia]

Its basically the same thing, and I do like they added a thing on the side so I know how many of my fans are friends. I wish it was easier to find out who wasnt a friend yet though.

[Shooting]

I shoot only weddings. Last time I shot a senior with tons of family witnesses around, the mother said she did not like my pics and called the police to search my house for underage porn. After months of checking out all my memory cards, computers, etc..they brought everything back and apologized..so I shoot only weddings. All it takes is one angry parent that don't like your work to ruin you.

[AzzKicker]

Probably been said already but I dont have time to read all the pages. What I did is off my personal page, made my own Fan Page. So add the seniors as your friends and refer them to your Business Fan Page and just be-friend them on your personal page.

[msfvirginia]

I shoot only weddings. Last time I shot a senior with tons of family witnesses around, the mother said she did not like my pics and called the police to search my house for underage porn. After months of checking out all my memory cards, computers, etc..they brought everything back and apologized..so I shoot only weddings. All it takes is one angry parent that don't like your work to ruin you.

What country are you in? Just curious. Why was the mother so upset?

Don't the police need substantial evidence to get a search warrant? Taking a photographers collection of hard drives and memory cards is enough to shut down business until they get them back, unless they have the money to buy extra hard drives and cards, and have access to the software and time to reinstall the programs. And computers don't usually come with the windows disk.

[msfvirginia]

Hmm, how do you block your friends / fan list so people cant see it, or better yet so only friends/fans can see it? Ive looked around, but im over looking it somehow.

And I've just created my first event. :)

[AzzKicker]

Hmm, how do you block your friends / fan list so people cant see it, or better yet so only friends/fans can see it? Ive looked around, but im over looking it somehow.

And I've just created my first event. :)


On the top right under Account you should see your account settings there. There are privacy options.

[msfvirginia]

Thanks for the direction, but I've looked through those 5 categories and don't see anything about who can view my friends list. I'm probably looking right at it and not realizing it, which tab is it in, and what section of that page?

There's profile information, contact information, applications and websites, search and block list.

[steve1]

As you are a High School teacher you might be interested to know that the word "and" is not a synonym for the word "to"....I'm just sayin'

[sevillafox]

As you are a High School teacher you might be interested to know that the word "and" is not a synonym for the word "to"....I'm just sayin'

???

Wowza.....sometimes people who are typing faster than thinking make mistakes. Perhaps quoting the post where I made the error would have been more helpful that quite obnoxiously pointing out that an error was made. I will gladly fix it if you are so kind as to quote it.

[pantherphotos]

As you are a High School teacher you might be interested to know that the word "and" is not a synonym for the word "to"....I'm just sayin'

???

Wowza.....sometimes people who are typing faster than thinking make mistakes. Perhaps quoting the post where I made the error would have been more helpful that quite obnoxiously pointing out that an error was made. I will gladly fix it if you are so kind as to quote it.

Ya know, no kidding! Do you really have nothing more important to do than to point out people's grammar mistakes? This kind of thing drives me crazy! This is photography forum, not a grammar forum. Go out, shoot some pictures, post them, and don't worry about people's grammar mistakes! :rolleyes:

BTW, Tiffany, I tried your method here, and it seems to be working! I have 1, for sure, who responded to my Rep Search event, and 2 maybes. How many reps do your suggest per school? The one in my town has around 20 seniors (town of ~700 people). Thanks for sharing this great method!

[sevillafox]

Hey Eric.

I would suggest no more than 2 per school. It's not fair to have more than that IMO. I know one of the studios in my area will accept anyone and everyone who applies but I'm not that generous. :lol:

Each rep is a significant investment in time and money. I'm not about to take everyone.:lol:

[pantherphotos]

Hey Eric.

I would suggest no more than 2 per school. It's not fair to have more than that IMO. I know one of the studios in my area will accept anyone and everyone who applies but I'm not that generous. :lol:

Each rep is a significant investment in time and money. I'm not about to take everyone.:lol:

Cool, thanks! That's kind of what I was thinking. And definitely no more than that, because of how small the class here is. Hopefully I can get into some of the other area schools as well. There are 3 other high schools in the county. Thanks again!

[sevillafox]

Good luck!

[L A Mac]

Probably been said already but I dont have time to read all the pages. What I did is off my personal page, made my own Fan Page. So add the seniors as your friends and refer them to your Business Fan Page and just be-friend them on your personal page.

That seems to be the way to go. I will be headed in this direction shortly. Only problem is you can't put up personal goofy stuff without compromising your professionalism. :o

[cdifoto]

I ended up taking a different approach to finding the first model. Instead of making an event out of it, I simply messaged a good looking one and told her I wanted to use her. It worked. :D

[geoff5093]

Lots of good info here! I started off with a fan page, because I feel that it's easier for someone to click "Become a fan" or "like", then to accept a friend invite from a random person. However after reading this entire thread I realized that there are lots of advantages to using your personal facebook account. For one, when someone becomes a fan or likes your page, they can see anything you put on your fan page, but you can't view anything on there profile page, or post on any of their statuses or pictures.

I work at a school as well, although it's an elementary school so that doesn't help me much. I've been thinking about shooting more high school sports, and then slowly find the players on facebook through other groups and fan pages, such as "Schoolname Varsity Basketball" and friend request them. The issue with me is that I have lots of personal pictures that while they aren't inappropriate, they aren't very professional. Although since these are high schoolers, they probably wouldn't care.

[cdifoto]

I wouldn't worry about the personal pics, Geoff. I upload random pics from my blackberry too. I just keep 'em in an album called Mobile Uploads like most everyone else does. I think that makes it clear that they're not my professional work.

You probably would want to pull the keg stand pics though. :D

[geoff5093]

I wouldn't worry about the personal pics, Geoff. I upload random pics from my blackberry too. I just keep 'em in an album called Mobile Uploads like most everyone else does. I think that makes it clear that they're not my professional work.
If I do decide to do this I would obviously go through all my photos to make sure none are embarrassing, because you never know what/when someone will tag you in something. That's another reason why you need to be active on facebook, to monitor what people tag you in.

Another question, right now I have 228 fans on my photography fan page. 100 of which are already my friend, if I were to make the jump between having my potential clients and fans become friends of my personal page instead, would you send friend requests to them?

[cdifoto]

I dunno. I'd probably try to get them as friends too. *shrug*. It's not an issue for me though as I have a page but it only has 90-some fans vs the 700+ friends of my personal-ish profile (it's more business than personal anyway).

[msfvirginia]

I ended up taking a different approach to finding the first model. Instead of making an event out of it, I simply messaged a good looking one and told her I wanted to use her. It worked. :D

Ive tried that a few times, so far no takers. In my spring special event, I have 3 attending, and like 20 maybe, and like 70 not attending. Ive messaged the 3 and 20 people but no replies yet. I really want to get senior portfolio going but no one is booking with me yet.

[spaztastic]

Seems really desperate to me. its pretty comical. I'm from southeastern Wisconsin and have more business than what I can do with. without prying into peoples facebooks to get business.

Sorry, I just laugh at some people strategies

[bulayog]

Seems really desperate to me. its pretty comical. I'm from southeastern Wisconsin and have more business than what I can do with. without prying into peoples facebooks to get business.

Sorry, I just laugh at some people strategies

Mind sharing your marketing strategies?

[geoff5093]

Seems really desperate to me. its pretty comical. I'm from southeastern Wisconsin and have more business than what I can do with. without prying into peoples facebooks to get business.

Sorry, I just laugh at some people strategies
Why laugh when it works for some people?

[sevillafox]

Seems really desperate to me. its pretty comical. I'm from southeastern Wisconsin and have more business than what I can do with. without prying into peoples facebooks to get business.

Sorry, I just laugh at some people strategies

To each their own. I look forward to the time when I don't have to do it this way.

Plus, you need to consider that SE WI is way more densely populated than SW WI. There are TONS of tiny schools in a large radius so you need to push to get your name into each school.

And, well....it depends on your price.....it's WAY easier to be busy with cheap sessions than it is more expensive ones.

But, thank you so much for your uber helpful comment and calling me pathetic. :)

[spaztastic]

my going rate for senior sessions is 500-1200, weddings 2200-5800, automotive 350-1000. I would say I'm pretty far off from the cheap side. My work is always consistent and deliver the look the clients want.

Its better to plant yourself within the schools than reaching out with desperate hands. Most have cork boards and such that you can put things on. Offer free services for a couple sporting events to build a rapport with the school district. They tend to tell the students about you. thats how I all started with senior pictures. I've shot 11 weddings so far from seniors that I shot years prior. I've only been shooting seniors for 3 years, going on 4. So it all adds up in the end.

Give the kids PLENTY of business cards to hand out to their friends, parents, family. Offer small perks and discounts. ( example. If a senior gets me another client, I will give them a nice print, if they send me 2, they get a nice canvas from millers lab etc )

Now the reason why I see it as pathetic, desperate....is cause its just creepy. You have some random middle aged women stalking / trolling them on their facebook to get their business.

seems like a goofy business practice to me.

another thing that has boomed for me is Google Adwords for me for wedding and senior photography. I pay roughly 250 a month for advertising, and get about 2500-4000 a month from it.

[bulayog]

my going rate for senior sessions is 500-1200, weddings 2200-5800, automotive 350-1000. I would say I'm pretty far off from the cheap side. My work is always consistent and deliver the look the clients want.

Its better to plant yourself within the schools than reaching out with desperate hands. Most have cork boards and such that you can put things on. Offer free services for a couple sporting events to build a rapport with the school district. They tend to tell the students about you. thats how I all started with senior pictures. I've shot 11 weddings so far from seniors that I shot years prior. I've only been shooting seniors for 3 years, going on 4. So it all adds up in the end.

Give the kids PLENTY of business cards to hand out to their friends, parents, family. Offer small perks and discounts. ( example. If a senior gets me another client, I will give them a nice print, if they send me 2, they get a nice canvas from millers lab etc )

Now the reason why I see it as pathetic, desperate....is cause its just creepy. You have some random middle aged women stalking / trolling them on their facebook to get their business.

seems like a goofy business practice to me.

another thing that has boomed for me is Google Adwords for me for wedding and senior photography. I pay roughly 250 a month for advertising, and get about 2500-4000 a month from it.
Can you elaborate on each packages, seniors, weddings, etc., like what it includes? Also, what was your rate when you just started?

[cdifoto]

my going rate for senior sessions is 500-1200, weddings 2200-5800, automotive 350-1000. I would say I'm pretty far off from the cheap side. My work is always consistent and deliver the look the clients want.

Its better to plant yourself within the schools than reaching out with desperate hands. Most have cork boards and such that you can put things on. Offer free services for a couple sporting events to build a rapport with the school district. They tend to tell the students about you. thats how I all started with senior pictures. I've shot 11 weddings so far from seniors that I shot years prior. I've only been shooting seniors for 3 years, going on 4. So it all adds up in the end.

Give the kids PLENTY of business cards to hand out to their friends, parents, family. Offer small perks and discounts. ( example. If a senior gets me another client, I will give them a nice print, if they send me 2, they get a nice canvas from millers lab etc )

Now the reason why I see it as pathetic, desperate....is cause its just creepy. You have some random middle aged women stalking / trolling them on their facebook to get their business.

seems like a goofy business practice to me.

another thing that has boomed for me is Google Adwords for me for wedding and senior photography. I pay roughly 250 a month for advertising, and get about 2500-4000 a month from it.

You're telling me that a random cork board posting and an offer of free sporting event coverage is less desperate than simply messaging a couple kids on facebook?

C'mon. It's not even creepy if the offers are above board and legitimate. Heck I'm 28, male, and parents and kids alike are basically thanking me for existing. lol.

Kids are actually adding me now and I'm enjoying the facebook approach. ;)

[Borna C]

If you ask me, adding people and spamming their inboxes is a bit over the top, but I wouldn't say that establishing your presence there in a way that people come to you (fan page, not personal account) is a waste of time. especially when it's free.

[geoff5093]

If you ask me, adding people and spamming their inboxes is a bit over the top, but I wouldn't say that establishing your presence there in a way that people come to you (fan page, not personal account) is a waste of time. especially when it's free.
No one here said that, they create an event or update their statuses with news on their photography business.

[sevillafox]

Now the reason why I see it as pathetic, desperate....is cause its just creepy. You have some random middle aged women stalking / trolling them on their facebook to get their business.


Middle aged?!?!?!


Holy moo man....you're going to get slapped!!! I'm 29!!!!!!!!

And, well, I work in a school in the area. I see how well the cork board and mailer practice works. :roll:

Like I said, to each their own.

It has taken me from 3 senior reps last year to 16....BIG change. I'm not cheap. In this particular area this is a common way to do it and other fairly big name photographers advocate this practice as well.

Just because you don't like it and don't choose to work things this way please don't knock on people doing their best to make their business boom and prosper so they can help provide for their family.

And, well, I started this thread to be helpful and give back to the POTN community not get insulted.

[Borna C]

No one here said that, they create an event or update their statuses with news on their photography business.

adding people and sending messages was mentione a few times. personaly, if you send me a message, e-mail, wall post or anything informing me that you're a dj and having a great party, that's the party I'm sure as hell not going to. matter of principal. If you have an event, that's ok, if I chose to follow your status updates and you write something about it, that's ok. but please don't send me anything.

[geoff5093]

adding people and sending messages was mentione a few times. personaly, if you send me a message, e-mail, wall post or anything informing me that you're a dj and having a great party, that's the party I'm sure as hell not going to. matter of principal. If you have an event, that's ok, if I chose to follow your status updates and you write something about it, that's ok. but please don't send me anything.
Hmm, I must have missed that. At least from what the OP was talking about, she would just update her status every now and then so people see her name and business, she would occasionally comment or "like" a students status or photo, but would only send a message if someone showed interest in being photographed.

[Borna C]

Hmm, I must have missed that. At least from what the OP was talking about, she would just update her status every now and then so people see her name and business, she would occasionally comment or "like" a students status or photo, but would only send a message if someone showed interest in being photographed.

however, that should be the way it's done, and it's good that it's been said :D

[cdifoto]

I spammed a couple people. Call it over the top, I don't care. It worked. I basically became a photographic god overnight once I got my first girl. My blackberry won't stop dinging now...literally. It's constant. Even the ones who declined/didn't respond before are now asking me if I can fit them in.

To put it bluntly, the opinions of most POTNers don't mean a lick to me...they don't pay my bills.

[Borna C]

so why are you here?

anyway, if it works for you, go for it. If you ask me, I don't even read those messages and they generally annoy me, so I don't work with the people who spam me as a matter of principal. So I was just saying that you globally get more business if you don't go on their nerves.

[EL Photo]

Wow, Great Info!

[cdifoto]

so why are you here?

Because there are still some members here that I respect. I don't spend nearly as much time on here as I used to though, because I FINALLY got wise and realized that this forum is not where I need to be if I want to grow my business.

[NeoSoulPhoto]

I just made my fan page yesterday, and the response has been pretty decent. I plan on updating my personal status, advertising my like page at least 3 times a week as well as continuously adding new pics and tagging people. I've also just asked certain people to become fans.

[Chris]

"Now the reason why I see it as pathetic, desperate....is cause its just creepy. You have some random middle aged women stalking / trolling them on their facebook to get their business."

Dang, you try to give a little insight for others and this is the response? I for one appreciate all you've shared Tiffany and it looks like you are making great progress with your business.

By the way, I loved that series of pics you posted from the electrician.

[cdifoto]

anyway, if it works for you, go for it. If you ask me, I don't even read those messages and they generally annoy me, so I don't work with the people who spam me as a matter of principal. So I was just saying that you globally get more business if you don't go on their nerves.

Based on the responses I'm getting, they're far from annoyed. ;)

You also globally get more business if people know you exist than if you do nothing more than create a website then hang back thinking people will flock to you. You have to be aggressive in your marketing when tapping into a new niche/genre and it's possible to do so without being obnoxious. You must have the right personality though. You can't be a cynical ass. :)

[Borna C]

well, that's marketing yourself while talking about marketing. you have to be nice (like me). you really don't have to, you just have to seem friendly and nice and all that. on the inside, you can be pissed of like you have never seen. it's just important to remember that everyone is watching.

i didn't say you should sit back and wait for it, but you can't force anything. you make a page, send invites to all of your actual friends, and than you add photos, update statuses with actual quality content and wait for it to get viral. universally speaking, you win in the long run :D

[cdifoto]

You're a guru on facebook marketing now? Interesting.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=870927

[Borna C]

no, I am your target market.

[cdifoto]

No you're not.

[Borna C]

19 year old, graduated from high-school last year, know a hundred people with the same description and same mindset about spamming their inboxes? sounds pretty much like your target market.

[cdifoto]

Graduated last year? Not my target market. ;)