EOS 350D lens kit vs. put money towards other lens?

[gcams]

Hi All,

I'm going to lash out very soon and buy myself my first DSLR, the 350D. Like most folk my budget is going to be tight, but at the same time, my plan is to slowly start a collection of really good quality lenses that I'm hoping to have for life. Whilst I've been a keen photographer ever since I was 12 and got my first SLR (Practika MTL-5B), I never stuck to the one brand in the following years and never ended up with a lens kit (foolish boy!). Having sold all my miscellaneous kit, I have now settled on Canon as it seems to have the most versatile Lens system, which should help when trying to build up a lens kit over the coming years.

My photography covers everything (as you'll guess from my website), but my two main passions are landscape/scenery and wildlife (which I currently don't have the kit to do much with). I have already decided on the 100-400 L IS glass to cover my wildlife passion, whilst also being useful for a variety of other subject matter (hence the reason not to go for the 400mm prime). This lens is a good 6-12 months away for me, affordability wise though.

The 18-55mm kit lens would be a good range for doing some landscape and general stuff, but I'm a bit concerned about the quality of it. I'm wondering if I would be better buying the body only, and putting the money towards a better lens. The question is then, which one, and again budget is going to be the issue. At most, I could only stretch to another £100-£150 on top of the 350D kit price (seems to be going about the £600 mark in the UK). I was considering something like the 28-105 f4-5.6 USM II, even though it's going to limit me in the scenery department, I could always buy a nice wide angle later on down the track. The trick is to get a lens that will be a good all round lens for the next 6-12 months until I can save up enough to buy another lens or two, but still try and get something of reasonable quality. The kit lens may be the way to go, but I am interested to hear the thoughts of others. In general, I probably want to stick with genuine Canon glass, although I'm not completely against the idea of the other brands, but whatever I buy, I want to hang onto it for good! :)

Thanks for any thoughts!!

Regards,
Graham

[whchan]

Since you have mention the 28-105 lens and your passion is to shoot landscape, for that price range, you may also want to consider Sigma 18-125/3.5-5.6. It will probably cost 10% more compared to the 28-105 but will give you much better range, especially on the wide end. I do not own, but have tried my friend's lenses (the two that I mentioned) and I feel the quality of pictures are comparable.

[condyk]

I've seen body only 350xt for around £539 at cameras2u.com ...

http://www.cameras2u.com/products/details.cfm?PRODUCT=0210B009AA

The Sigma 18-50mm EX 2.8 seems a good option if you like landscapes as it has some width to it and the speed/quality you'd want long term. Maybe you can just about afford it if you shop around for that too.

http://www.shuttertalk.com/articles/sigma1850ex/index.php

I've not been convinced by Canon stuff in the wide or standard zoom range, other than the 17-40mm, but it's your money. Expensive in the Uk so offer poor value compared to the competition. Once you start looking a bit longer then some of the Canon L's are outstanding. Shorter primes are also excellent.

[Andy_T]

Graham,

first of all welcome to the forum!

You ask the normal questions here.

While the kit lens certainly is not stellar, it is a decent performer for the 100$ you pay for it.

When I got my 20D, I got the kit lens with it to have wide angle covered and got the Tamron 28-75/2.8 as great normal lens. I find that I use the Tamron about 95% of the time, it really is a sweet lens. Its major donwside is the 28 mm on the wide end.

I would suggest you to invest a bit and get a good normal lens.

Every big lens manufacturer (Canon, Sigma, Tamron, Tokina) makes great, good and crappy lenses, and the important thing is to find out which category the lens you want falls into :wink:

However, as a decent Canon lens like the 28-105 you mentioned will be nearly as expensive as a very good third-party lens ... I would suggest to overcome brand fear and look at the quality of the lens.

3 lenses come to mind
(EDIT ... original prices mentioned were wrong, German prices are given now as reference!)
- Tamron 28-75/2.8 ... EUR 300
- Sigma 24-70/2.8 ... EUR 420
- Sigma 18-50/2.8 ... EUR 420

Those are lenses that would stay with you a long time, most likely.

Best regards,
Andy

[condyk]

Andy

Those prices are probably import via HK and so high delivery charges and possible VAT and Duty to add on top ... otherwise a nice list. Best UK price I know for the Tamron at the moment is around £249 and the Sigma 24-70mm DG Macro is £279 (this one via Jessops believe it or not!!)

[Andy_T]

Condyk,

thank you for clarifying that .... you were absolutely right.
I edited the original post accordingly.

Got misled by your phony non-European currency :wink:

Best regards,
Andy

[MrChad]

If you have a full set 28mm--> zooms the kit lens would likely be ok.
If you have no EF glass, I'd put the $100 toward a Sigma 18-125mm or Tamron 18-200mm lens. Optically they are as good as the kit, but you get a bit more reach, nice if you are short on glass. And they are cheap enough you can save for other glass down the road and not worry too much about what you paid for this glass. I certainly like the Sigma lens.

Plus if you find yourself always on the long end of hyper zoom you can better plan what glass to get next like a Canon 70-200 or 70-300 etc.

[gcams]

Wow, I'm staggered, not only by the speed of all these great replies, but also the quality and helpfulness! Thanks guys!! Thanks for the welcomes too. :)

Having read through the replies, I'm quite tempted by the Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC suggestion (looks to be about £200) in preference to the kit lens, which seems to be about £10 more than the Canon 28-105mm f4-5.6 I was looking at, whilst still giving me the wide angle for my landscape stuff and being a slightly faster lens. Unfortunately the budget isn't going to stretch at this stage to the more expensive EX Sigma suggestions :(.

Dis-regarding the extra reach/width/speed of the Sigma 18-125mm over the Canon 28-105mm, quality wise, would the sigma compare with the canon (the Canon is USM)? Andy's right, I do have brand fear as I've never used/purchased 3rd party lenses before and I am a little reluctant to break away from Canon, even though I fully accept Canon has managed some crappy lenses too!

The next question is (more out of interest than anything else), how would the Sigma 18-125mm stack up at the 18mm end compared to the Canon kit lens at the 18mm end?

Again, thanks everyone for your time and thoughts!

[gcams]

Hmmmm, just noticed an online retailer selling a Sigma lens duo, comprising 18-50mm F3.5-5.6 DC & 55-200mm F4-5.6 DC for £180. Any thoughts on these two lenses.. it would certainly give me a heck of a lot of lens for my pound, but I'd rather compromise on the quantity rather than quality.

[MrChad]

The 18-125mm DC is heads above the Sigma duo in quality. IF and a petal hood and way better build.

However, it isn't Canon USM silent, but the build is quite good. But the AF of the 18-125mm is noticable, much louder then the kit or USM Canon's but it's not too aweful and the speed of AF is about the same as the kit lens.

I much prefer the 18-125mm over the kit lens, and the price is very nice for what you get. It's not a junk lens by any means. I felt the kit was a fairly skimpy lens in build terms.

[lostdoggy]

Their is no shame in getting the Kit lens. The Kit lens is not the same kit lens that came withe the original DRebel. The latest iteration of the Kit lens has USM, although not a ring USM its still an improvement. The Kit lens sell by itself for $149. If you're looking into getting Sigma lenses make sure it is the EX series and consider looking for ones with HSM. The HSM is speedier then the non-HSM in focusing unless you like slow focus.

Unless you have the funds to purchase better lenses then the kit lens would serve your immediate need. Otherwise you are looking at around $4300 to cover the 16 to 200 range.

16-35L f/2.8= $1400
24-70L f/2.8= $1200
70-200L f/2.8 IS = $1700

With conversion factor of 1.6X= 25.6 to 320

This is inconsideration that you want quality lenses.
You can save money by going for third party lenses of coarse.

[gcams]

The Kit lens is not the same kit lens that came withe the original DRebel. The latest iteration of the Kit lens has USM, although not a ring USM its still an improvement.
This is very interesting, as the reviews I was basing my info on indicated the Lens supplied with the 350D was not in fact USM (Looking at the info about the lens at the bottom of this page http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos350d/page3.asp).

The general consensus still seems to be in preference of the Sigma 18-125mm DC over the kit lense though. Although I'm still at two minds whether to take lostdoggy's advice and just get the kit to get me up and running and pocket the extra ££ to put towards some L glass in the near future.. the price difference between the kit and body only turns out to be only about £56.00, so I'm not actually saving massive money by getting the body only by the looks of things.

Thanks again to everyone for the input!

[lostdoggy]

This is very interesting, as the reviews I was basing my info on indicated the Lens supplied with the 350D was not in fact USM (Looking at the info about the lens at the bottom of this page http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos350d/page3.asp).




Check out the page on the Popular Photography site:
http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=1413&page_number=3&preview=

Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT
Vital Statistics
Imaging: 8MP (effective) CMOS sensor captures 3456x2304 pixels with12 bits/color in RAW mode. 2:3 aspect ratio with 1.6X 35mm lens factor. Storage: CF Type I/II cards including Microdrives. Stores JPEG, RAW (CR2), and RAW + JPEG. Up to 14 JPEG images at 3 fps in highest res, finest JPEG mode, or up to 14 RAW at 3 fps. AF system: Selectable 7-point AF with LED confirmation lights, One-Shot and AI Servo AF. Center zone is cross-type sensor. Shutter/exposure controls: 30–1/4000-sec shutter speeds plus B. Normal flash sync to 1/200 sec with up to 17mm lens coverage and 1⁄3-step flash compensation. Metering: 35-zone evaluative, centerweighted average, and partial (9%). ISO 100–1600. Advanced color settings include sRGB, Adobe RGB, and custom matrix. Output: Hi-Speed USB 2.0 and video out. Power: NB-2LH lithium ion rechargeable. Size/weight: 5x3.7x2.6 in., 1.2 lb with battery. Street price: $899, body only. $999 with 18–55mm f/3.5–5.6 USM EF-S lens kit. Info: www.canoneos.com; 800-652-2666.

[Andy_T]

The kit lens is built both as USM and non-USM version.
Do check very carefully which one is included with your camera. I know that the USM version is included in Japan, but from what I have heard so far, the European and US kit do not have the USM lens included.
Mine sure isn't USM.

I believe that some vendors give you the possibility to upgrade to the USM version, but then it'll be a bit more expensive ... most likely the 50$ lostdoggy mentioned.

Best regards,
Andy

[gcams]

Thanks lostdoggy and Andy.

Andy, it looks like you're right. The "standard" UK version of the kit lens is definitely a non USM lens according to the many sites I've now looked at. Some retailers like cameras2u are selling the silver model with the USM lens (maybe to make it more attractive). I can see even getting the "kit" lens is going to require some careful attention now. AAAARGH! :D

[Poco]

I bought the 28-105 f3.5-4.5 USM II lens when I bought my 350 instead of the kit lens and I am quite happy with it. I like the quiet and fast focus over the noisy kit lens (I tried it in the store). Also, I really don't like the focus rotating the front of the kit lens. I don't have to worry about anything moving on the outside of the lens when focusing and it doesn't mess with my polarizer. Also, the USM lens has full time manual focus so that I can refocus if I need to after the autofocus has locked (don't do this with AI AF :-).

I do think that a wide angle lens is in my future, but I don't miss the kit lens. There are lots of good (and expensive) options that can fill the <28mm range if and when you need it.

Another thing to consider is the 28-135 IS lens. It was about double the price of my 28-105 but has the IS. I considered it then, but thinking back, I might be more inclined to get it now if I was to do it all over again (or something crazy like a 28-300).

[MrChad]

I just got my latest issue of POPphoto in the mail, yah-yah....

Any how, they had some favorable sayings for the new group of Sigma-Tamron Hyperzooms.: August 05 issue.

Having used both the non-USM kit lens and the Sigma 18-125mm DC, the optical quality is there with the kit lens. And the non-rotating front barrel and included lens hood, metal mount and way more reach made this lens a no brainer. Pair it with a Cir. Polarizer filter and you have a lens good for along time. If you have the extra dough the 18-200mm would be a real hoot, and give you enough focal length to figure out what is your ideal most used range. Then when it's time for that L glass you'll have a better idea of what you want.

[Hellashot]

Get the kit lens. It's the cheapest lens that'll give you a 28mm FOV on it. Plus if you want to sell the camera and lens down the road, you'll have a lens to include with the sale. $90 towards another lens isn't much at all when to get into buying more and more lenses.

[ed2day]

Go with the kit lens until you can get into a 17-40L (ideal for landscapes).

[GyRob]

the kit lens i got was just a waste of money, Canon can really be a dissapointment sometimes imho the camera,s are fine though, and the L lenses .
Rob

[lostdoggy]

the kit lens i got was just a waste of money, Canon can really be a dissapointment sometimes imho the camera,s are fine though, and the L lenses .
Rob

It is great that some people have very deep pocket to afford L lenses but for those others the kit lens is a good start. It might disapoint you i your needs and expectation but with a little effort anyone who has the determination to capture the moment will be able to. I just read in a mag that a contestant from Parson College won a $10,000 photo contest from Pantone with a photo taken with a camera phone. Go figure, no L lenses.

[gcams]

Having been thinking about this, doing more research and reading back through all these very helpful suggestions, I'm more convinced than ever I need to save more money before making this purchase.

I think the Sigma 18-125mm DC is probably better that any of the Canon consumer offerings in that price range, with a more attractive range. But I'm still concerned about the large number of reports of soft focusing beyond 15ft and build quality (focusing noise, etc) and the hit and miss quality based on good/bad copy. The Canon 28-105 F3.5-4.5 USM II is arguably a better build quality, but optically it doesn't get rave reviews, and 28mm on a DSLR doesn't give much scope for wide angle work without another lense purchase which I would need to do, sooner than later for any landscape work.

Ultimately, I think the lens for me is the EF-S 17-85mm F4-5.6 IS (around $429).. currently well over budget, but I think it might be worth my while waiting until I can afford this. In the next few months the 350D/RebelXT might even fall a few pounds in price and help close the gap. The other "budget blowing" option is the Sigma 18-50 EX DC which also looks like a nice lens both optically and build wise, but I think for another £90, the extra reach and IS would be worth it.

Hmm.. looks like it's time to put the piggy bank back on the shelf and feed him some more! :)