Lemans in Connecticut

[Frogballs]

Any opinions I would appreciate. If anyone has any settings I can use on my 20d and 70-200 2.8 IS USM for racing that I can try would be killer.Some shots came out OK IMO but some came out blurry and most were a high shutter speed so they look like they are parked instead of the blurred wheels. I am lost...

[Frogballs]

Here are 2 more

[Dave_G]

If you're lost try using shutter priority and start somewhere like 160th of a second and ISO 400.

[Dave_G]

Example

f14, ISO400, 1/160s

http://images9.fotki.com/v198/photos/1/105162/2359269/IMG_6763-vi.jpg

What settings were you Porsche taken on?

NB I don't have a fancy fast lens like you :D

[Cadwell]

For pan shots:

Stick the camera in TV. Shutter speed 1/160th - 1/200th depending on vehicle speed. Try and keep the aperture around f/8 or so. Adjust ISO as needed.

Track the vehicle and fire when parallel to you. Remember to "follow through".

For head-on shots:

Stick the camera in TV. Shutter speed 1/320th (1/400th if the vehicle is really, really fast.. F1 car at full chat, that sort of thing) but no faster otherwise you'll have "parked cars". Again aperture around f/8 and adjust ISO as appropriate.

[Dave_G]

See, I have been listening! hehehe

[Brands]

For pan shots:

Stick the camera in TV. Shutter speed 1/160th - 1/200th depending on vehicle speed. Try and keep the aperture around f/8 or so. Adjust ISO as needed.

Track the vehicle and fire when parallel to you. Remember to "follow through".

For head-on shots:

Stick the camera in TV. Shutter speed 1/320th (1/400th if the vehicle is really, really fast.. F1 car at full chat, that sort of thing) but no faster otherwise you'll have "parked cars". Again aperture around f/8 and adjust ISO as appropriate.

Excellent advice.
The "fire when parallel" especially so. Practice with a background that has some features and you'll be amazed where you actually shoot the shot compared to where you think you shot it.

[Gordon S.]

Whats the rationale with the higher ISO? Last time I was at the track I was playing with the shutter and apterture (Mostly around f8, with 120/200 shutters) but didn't touch the ISO at all (Left it at 200). Most of my shots were more or less 'parked' uninteresting types. Mind you these were much slower IT class cars going maybe 60mph.

[Cadwell]

There's no trick with ISO apart from setting it to an appropriate value that allows you to select the desired shutter / aperture combination. In general lower ISO = better.

[Gordon S.]

Yeah, thats why I was curious. I know there's no trick or rule, I was just wondering what the thought was behind reccomending ISO400. I would have thought at ~1/250 f8 you wouldn't really need to bump it up, in fact on a sunny day I'd expect over exposure with that.

[Frogballs]

Hey guys,
I am kinda understanding what you mean. I shot the Porsche 320th shutter, f4.5, ISO 100, 125mm focal length. I would estimate the car was going 40-55MPH in that turn. I would assume the ISO was ok-ish due to the light. If you were going to stand this position for a while would you make that a setting for shooting that area of the track? I found due to the speeds just prior to the uphill chicane the camera didn't autofocus fast enough for me. I was contemplating sizing up that area in manual and panning and shooting multi burst so not to miss the area I would have manually focused, but I didn 't think it would have a hard time focusing. Just a thought on my end, but like I said I am relatively new so I am throwing darts so to speak.

[Gordon S.]

I'm surprised your 20D would have problems with focusing speeds. Were you set with AI-Servo and using a specific focus point? My 350 with those settings focuses more than fast enough to grab track shots even with a 15 year old non USM lens.

[Frogballs]

I didn't set it, and it was looking to the cones in the background or the trees, but this all has to be user error ;). I am still pretty unfamiliar with the camera and what to mess around with.

[DeltaWebb]

The last picture you started heading in the right direction, looks like you just have to get out there more and try the things you and I just learned about in this thread. Not that I know anything...never even tried a pan shot yet. :(

[vwpilot]

I'm going to interject a couple things here. Take them as you want, I'm not saying anyone else is doing anything wrong, but here is my opinions on the matter and what has worked very well for me over the years of shooting motorsports professionally.

When panning, aperture means absolutely squat and you should never worry about it, its just not necessary.

When panning, you are atempting to blur the background with motion and it just doesnt matter what the aperture is because you will never tell whether its in or out of focus based on depth of field. The only thing you want to worry about is it getting too low, so if its real dark you can up the ISO so that you dont have to shoot at f/2.8 or something like that, but anywhere from over f/5.6 and up is just fine and you dont need to worry about keeping it at a specific aperture.

I mean it doesnt really matter of the folks in the background here are in the focal area or not, they are blurred regardless.

http://www.speedarena.com/gallery/albums//Sportscar/Le%20Mans/2005/09%20Race%20Gallery%201/057.jpg

Keep shutter speeds below 1/200 to get decent wheel blur. I prefer to keep them in the 1/160 or less area as that will make for a better photo. The lower you go the more dramatic the photo will be, but the less keepers you will get. If you are shooting for that one great shot for a wall, go down lower and hope for one or two keepers. If you are shooting for a client that needs photos, then go a little higher to give yourself a better chance at getting enough keepers for them.

Now on the other hand, when shooting head on, most of the time shutter speed does not matter at all. If you are doing a true head on, you will not see any wheel or tire and therefore there is nothing to give that standing still feeling. The only exception is with open wheel cars where you could potentially see frozen tires, but if they are running slicks this is still not usually a problem and you can still use relatively fast shutter speeds and not notice anything off.

I will often shoot true head ons at 1/1000 or more, with my real deciding factor being the aperture. I like to keep it in the f/7.1 area as that gives enough dof to keep the nose and tail of the car in focus, but will blow out most of the background. Depending on the background I might go slightly higher if there is nothing back there that needs to be out of focus, such as sky if the car is coming over a crest.

For instance a shot like this:

http://www.speedarena.com/gallery/albums//Sportscar/Le%20Mans/2005/10%20Race%20Gallery%202%20and%20Podium/045.jpg

You cant tell if the wheels are moving or standing still. So there is no point in trying to keep a lower shutter speed as it will only lower you chances of keepers since if the car is rotating while turning or moving side to side in the frame at all you will get blur which will keep it from being a keeper. So concentrate on the aperture and use a fairly fast shutter and you will do well.

Now for head ons with a little quartering to them, you will need to use a little slower shutter, but still areas of 1/320-1/500 can still work just fine. Such as this shot:

http://www.speedarena.com/gallery/albums//Sportscar/Le%20Mans/2005/10%20Race%20Gallery%202%20and%20Podium/071.jpg

Which was shot around 1/320 or 1/400, you can still see movement in the wheels, though they are not as blurred as in a true pan. This gives you the ability to still use a fairly open shutter as the background isnt moving as fast either so you can use some dof to keep it blurred as opposed to motion alone and there is still enough motion in the wheels so you know its not parked. So you dont want total frozen wheels, but you also dont need completely blurred to get your point across either.

Have fun.

[Cadwell]

Now on the other hand, when shooting head on, most of the time shutter speed does not matter at all. If you are doing a true head on, you will not see any wheel or tire and therefore there is nothing to give that standing still feeling. The only exception is with open wheel cars where you could potentially see frozen tires, but if they are running slicks this is still not usually a problem and you can still use relatively fast shutter speeds and not notice anything off.


Just one example...

http://gallery.ukmotorsportpics.com/p15964407.html

Head on shot with slick tyres. If I'd been running 1/1000th or more, that would have been a missed photo.

[vwpilot]

Sure, but I must not have worded that right.

I did say the EXCEPTION is with open wheel cars. I also meant to get across that with slicks its not as important as with, say a rain tire where you would see all the tread, to use a real slow shutter, you can still use a relatively fast shutter. In my mind this means still not as fast as you would for a fender car, but still faster than your average pan shot.

I probably didnt word my original post right. IMO, shooting head on, the shutter speed is still a secondary setting to aperture.

Here is a shot that was 1/800 of a second. Not necessarily the best shot, but I dont do a lot of open wheel shooting and its the example I have. You can see there is still plenty of blur in the slick tire so that you could tell if one was stopped and the others were still moving. It doesnt take a 1/200 shutter to keep a moving tire from freezing.

http://is.rely.net/2-189-9440-l-fpftyE7t4tFI30OEqrA.jpg

Like I said at the beginning, I was not saying anyone was doing anything wrong, I was giving another side of the story and other options. If you use a faster shutter you will always increase keeper rates and if the higher shutter does not adversely affect the final shot, use it.

Also, in your example you are also approacing a quartered shot, so from my post you could still be using a potentially slower shutter so that if you quarted it even more you would see the movement of the wheels.

Its all good though. Do what works for you. The original poster asked for advice, I'm giving him another option.

[Frogballs]

This website is great. I love shooting CARS so I think I have managed to find a few people who know what they are talking about. I am assuming the panning in the first picture VWpilot posted was a slight uphill left pan? or was it the way you held the camera?The 3rd picture utilizes no panning correct?

[vwpilot]

The first shot was slightly uphill.

The third shot did have some panning with it. I was following the car with a long lens and panning just slightly to follow the car and keep it sharp.

[Frogballs]

Do you do any drag race photos? Also given the equiptment I have would you further recommend anything else at this time, other than more practice?

[vwpilot]

I dont do any drag racing.

You can do well with what you have, but you will definately be limited to what you can shoot. If you wanted to fill out your kit you would need a longer lens of some kind, something that can get you out to the 400mm range or so and something a little wider if you want to do shots in the paddock or pits.

I would suggest adding a 1.4x teleconverter, you can use that on your 70-200 to give you a 280mm reach. Then I would suggest either a 300f/4 or a 400f/5.6. If you go 300 you can get a 420 with the use of the tele or you can just go for the 400 which will give you good reach and be very sharp.

If you have a larger budget, go with either the 300f/2.8 which can be used with converters to get reach or get a 500 or 600.

I personally use two 1DmkII bodies and three main lenses. 24-70 f/2.8, 70-200 f/2.8 and 500 f/4. I will sometimes use the 1.4 converter on the 500 but not very often. I dont normally find the gap between 200 and 500 to be a problem. In your case, using something around a 400mm length will give you about the same field of view that the 500 does on my mkII due to the sensor crop.