? Being unlucky and buying a dud ?

[syburn]

Hi have read here that when you buy a Canon DSLR you might get a lower quality one or you might get a good one. Seems its a matter of pot luck! When I buy a mountain bike or lap top computer the quality will be expected to me the same. I feel very worried now, about forking out 1000 dollars on a camera that might be a poor performer. Same seems to apply for lenses. I have read a similar story were a lens was bought that was not as sharp as another purchasers lens.

Wow, how do you all merrily continue with this hobby when the very act of buying a camera seems to be a gamble?

Or are the recent posts all not true and I can run out now and buy to my harts content?

Help me...hold my hand!!!!

[Camo 757]

Buy from a local store and pay 5% more with the knowledge that if there is anything odd that they will take care of you.

[Southswede]

Never had a problem with anything but the battery grip for the 20D. B&H took it back, without a problem. As far as Canon cameras go, I have had two DSLR's and both have been fantastic. And I don't think I'm getting "lucky" with the purchase.

[the.digital.guy]

Never had a problem with any of my Canon equipment.(Knock on wood.)
See my list on what I have.
If you buy from a reputable dealer;you will never have a problem;even if you do!

[wilflee]

When we buy into a major manufacturer's products, we place certain trust in that manufacturer to perform proper QA before it leaves the factory and to provide product support after it leaves the factory. In return, we pay a higher premium for that brand of products. Canon & Nikon, for example, are tier 1 DSLR manufacturers who can charge a premium on their products and still expect customers to fork out our money.

Once that trust is broken, then they don't deserve the premium price.

The question is, is Canon still tier 1? The buyer has to be the judge.

If you don't trust Canon's product QA process or its dealer support network, then Canon did not do enough to earn your business. In that case, I'd suggest you try Nikon, Pentax, Minolta etc. or someone else who has earned your trust.

[syburn]

Well Canon had earned my trust, untill I started reading some of the posts here. People have had issues with cameras and lenses this last week on the posts. Seems that you have to do a QA on all lenses yourself. One poster said I should ask to take a picture with a lens in the shop and then check the sharpenss at home.

This is what makes me worried.

And last week on person said he had heard about issues with the new 10-22 canon lens.

Do you know what I mean?

[jfrancho]

Many of these issues are non-existent, or the item is the scapegoat for user error.

[Andy_T]

Syburn .... yes, I know what you mean.

First of all ... wherever things are produced, there are errors made and the possiblity exists that some products are not as good as others. The variation may be that 60% of the output are junk (e.g. if you buy an old car made in Russia) or that 0.001 % of the output does not perform as specified.

For every 1,000 very happy users that do not make any comment, there will be one who is not happy for various reasons.

The internet gives that one guy the possibility to tell everybody about his (presumed or actual) misfortune.

It is pretty hard for you as somebody with little experience in the matter to decide which opinion is worthwhile and which opinion is just whining.
OK, it's possible if you take a bit of time and read more than one opinion.

But it's the first time I have heard about the cameras having issues. 95% of the time it's the user who is to be blamed ... but it's just so much easier to write an inflamatory post on the internet than to sit down and read the manual :sad:

With lenses, there sometimes is the case of 99% of users having very good ones and 1% of users receiving a bad one. But those threads - if there really IS a problem - normally end with 'brought it back to the store, and they exchanged it'.

And then there are the guys who say 'I had to test 5 24-70/2.8 L lenses (presumably one of Canon's best and most expensive lenses) until finding a decent one' ... which normally make me chuckle.

I had a colleague once who got a new Mercedes Benz (basically the smallest available C-class, somewhere around 35,000$) as company car. He complained that he saw a fingerprint in the front windshield (there was one, it was nearly invisible on the side of the window) and he insisted that the windshield be exchanged (a $ 500 repair job). When he got the car back, he complained that the new windshield also had a fingerprint inside and that he wanted to have it exchanged a second time... :mad:
According to his definition 'this should not be acceptable for a new car'. Notice ... he would not even buy himself, but just ride it for 2 years and then give it back ... a bit out of proportion for me, but people have varying degrees of jerkness.

Take it easy....

Best regards,
Andy

[syburn]

oh that makes me feel a bit more happy. When I finally buy in the next few days I certainly hope I will have nothing negative to post!


Simon

[ed2day]

I read a well-known pro photographer stating that in his career he has observed literally thousands of lenses including classes, seminars, etc. and has seen maybe a half-dozen "duds". It's obvious to me that what you have is cherry picking by enthusiasts to obtain a level of performance beyond what the average pro requires. And yes, there's production variations in everything you buy--mountain bikes (especially!) and computers included. Your laptop could very well have a hard drive with 1 mS greater access time than another. Your car may get 1mpg less than your neighbor's of the same model. Or have a few less hp. Do you lose sleep over those things?

[hopmedic]

I had a problem with my 10d when I bought it. So I shipped it back to National Camera Exchange for a replacement - no problem. When I got the replacement, I set it up with the same CF settings as I had the first one. Guess what? Same problem. Using the old lens (Tamron 28-80) from my Elan (yes, the first Elan). Went to a camera store and tried with their lens. Same problem - press shutter release, and you can hear shutter open (presumably), and never close (except to turn off camera and turn it back on).

Guess what? The mirror lock-up CF doesn't act the same as the mirror lock-up CF on my Elan. Bottom line? Not the camera's fault - mine. Nothing wrong with the camera - it was doing what it was supposed to do - waiting for me to press shutter again, after mirror was locked up. Lesson learned? Read the book, Dummy!:o Next time I'll know.

Another lesson I learned... National Camera Exchange will stand behind their sales. Also, when I was at another camera store in Rockford, IL (Camera Craft), they told me National was a good place to deal with. How's that for a reference?

[elbirth]

As Andy said, keep in mind that on these forums, the primary use people find for them is to seek help for problems they have, not to just post a thread and be like "hey, I'm just checking in letting everyone know everything is great! No problems!"
Look at how many people post on this forum. Now look at the number of threads total. Now look at how many of those are posts of people having problems. Now think about how many photographers there are in the world not posting here, and that at least the same percentage of them have no problems.

I've only really had 1 problem myself, and that was with a Tokina lens (24-200mm). I sent it to Tokina to be fixed and they did so for free under warranty. I got it back and it works great.

[wibbly]

A friend has just had to swap out his Nikon D2X (pro) body. It's the way of the world, unfortunately.

[Mohawk]

I would not worry. I think most problems stated on forums like these are user error. This new digital gear is not your old Kodak. And I would say that most of the lens problems are again due to user error, mainly not understanding how the AF works. Then there is the group that will never be satisfied, heck the packaging might not be pristene, so they return it! That is not to say there are not real equipment problems, I just don't think they are as prevelant as some would like to make others think.

And yes, I have had 3 bad lenses, 2 Tamrons with sever banding (you could see it in the lcd screen on the 20D camera back) and 1 Canon that had a 50+ foot backfocus using one point AF on a tripod with a shutter release. They all went back and were replaced with their equivalant in "L" glass. No problems at all now. Get your Canon, and stop reading the negative posts. All of my gear listed below was fine right out of the box, cameras and lenses. That's a bit of gear with no issues.

Mike

[Master-9]

I haven't had a problem on my 20d or film SLR...go for it :D

[lancea]

Wow, how do you all merrily continue with this hobby when the very act of buying a camera seems to be a gamble?
I suspect cameras come out pretty well if you compare the return rates for most other mass produced products. Grab yourself your country's equivalent of New Zealand's "Consumer" magazine - the publication of an independent organisation that tests products and looks after consumer's rights. Return rates of 10 or 20% aren't uncommon for even "top of the range" products. I know it's a real pain when you do buy a dud, but life's a gamble ;)

[GyRob]

i just think Canon are the best - that said they treat us like C..p with having to rely on luck when one buys anything from them it should not have to be a gamble it should be high class workmanship with maybe just the odd complaint.
what a joke
Rob.

[Bob_A]

Well Canon had earned my trust, untill I started reading some of the posts here. People have had issues with cameras and lenses this last week on the posts. Seems that you have to do a QA on all lenses yourself. One poster said I should ask to take a picture with a lens in the shop and then check the sharpenss at home.

This is what makes me worried.

And last week on person said he had heard about issues with the new 10-22 canon lens.

Do you know what I mean?

There are 33500 members of this forum, so surely you have to expect that out of these, several are going to have problems with their equipment. If Canon has a quality "Sigma" level of 4 (Industry avererage) there would be 208 defects reported by all members here if they only owned one item produced by Canon (4 Sigma = 6210 defects per million). Multipy this by the number of items purchased yearly by each member (on average) and you can see that if Canon were at the current Industry average it would be very unlikely to not see daily posts on this forum discussing a camera or lens problem.

These would be the "real" problems. When you add in posts where it is just user error (I'm guessing, but I bet this is about 10 to 1) you can easily get the impression that a manufacturer has a quality problem when they don't.

I haven't had a significant problem with any piece of Canon equipment that I have ever owned. However, unless Canon is the Industry leader with regards to quality it would be silly of me to expect that I will never buy equipment with a defect in the future.

[Mohawk]

Rob,

Oh come on, it's not that bad. Take a look over at the Nikon side, lots of problems with their Pro line of cameras. As far as Canon, see my list of stuff below. Everything was purchased on the net or locally with no problems. I had more trouble with Tamron lenses, bought 2, returned 2. Canon, bought 12 lenses and 2 bodies, and returned 1 lens. That's pretty good in my book, and I have suspiscions regarding the Canon lens that I returned. I no longer shop at that particular local camera store, though they happily exchanged it for a Bigma.

And look at my lens collection. I have several that are said to be less then stellar in the zoom department. I have had no problems with these so-called questionable lenses. They work fine, even the kit lens that is not listed, are sharp corner to corner. They are not prime sharp though, but they are zoom lenses. I do not expect them to match my 85mm 1.2L, that would be silly.

Maybe your expieriences are different. I really cannot say anything negative about Canon, as everything regarding their products have been positive. All in all, I would say they do a pretty good job, seeing as they manufacture millions of cameras and lenses. And they are always pushing the envelope technology wise compared to the other guys.

Mike

[smirchfa]

My 20D was broken right out of the box from B&H - the viewfinder LCD produced garbled nonsense for the aperture and shutter speed values. Unfortunately, I didn't notice it right away, so I proceeded to install the Canon software, and THEN I noticed. B&H wouldn't take it back because the software was open. I called Canon and the first person I talked to was inept at best, telling me that the newest available firmware was 1.1.5, even though I had 1.2 on my camera! I called right back and got a much more capable individual - they sent me a pre-paid shipping label, and once I mailed the body out, I recieved it back repaired in 7 days - much less than I expected. The moral here is: don't open the software until you have tested absolutely everything. If you do, forget returning it to your dealer, even if they are reputable. And if you do have to contact Canon, multiple calls may be in order. Eventualy, it was well taken care of.

Regarding failure rates - I work at a camera store, and I have dealt with more faulty 20D's than all other Canon SLR's, film or digital, combined. I believe they are (or were) being rushed out to meet initial demand. The entire first "wave" that we received before Christmas all had a crooked rear LCD - not a major problem, but an annoyance when you just spent $1500.00, and a major clue as to how strict their quality control is. After all that, I love my 20D, but I will definitely be more careful in the future before deeming a camera "OK" and loading the software! (which I've never even used anyway!)

[wintoid]

I bought a 300d which broke inside 1 month. This was replaced with a 300d that worked perfectly. I paid the return shipping costs, but was satisfied with this.

I subsequently upgraded to a 20d which had a filthy sensor, inability to focus under certain circumstances with certain lenses and regularly locked up. This was sent to Canon for repair under warranty, and has worked perfectly ever since.

Overall I feel their quality standards are poor but they DO stand by their product.

[wibbly]

My 20D was broken right out of the box from B&H ...

... I work at a camera store

Presumably that store isn't B&H? Interesting that (presumably for price reasons?) the better value/price/service combination for you was NOT buying where you work.

Or do I presume too much? :o

J

[Roach711]

I've owned a lot of Canon gear over the years and never come across any defects. There WERE a few times I thought the camera was messed up until I learned to operate the thing properly. There is a learning curve to deal with.

I've also learned never to buy version 1.0 of anything - cars, cameras or computers. Let the factory get the bugs out of a new product before buying and avoid being an unpaid beta tester.

I love my 20D and all my other Canon stuff.

[jfrancho]

I've owned a lot of Canon gear over the years and never come across any defects. There WERE a few times I thought the camera was messed up until I learned to operate the thing properly. There is a learning curve to deal with.

I've also learned never to buy version 1.0 of anything - cars, cameras or computers. Let the factory get the bugs out of a new product before buying and avoid being an unpaid beta tester.

I love my 20D and all my other Canon stuff.I totally agree with you there. I avoid version 1.9 as well, when I know version 2.0 will be out soon.

[Titus213]

Canon user for over 20 years here. Bought them for me, for the wife, for both kids and never had a problem. Well, except that I have yet to be able to perform up to the capability of my equipment, which I really believe is the source of 90% of the complaints I've read on the forum. Buy it, use it, enjoy it. And if it breaks fix it. Such is life.

[ed2day]

B&H sells you a busted camera and won't take it back because the software was opened???? That's the vaunted customer service I've been hearing about???

[felix21685]

I totally agree with you there. I avoid version 1.9 as well, when I know version 2.0 will be out soon.

LOL :D But then sometimes they try to change some things in a big way for version 2 and then..just sometimes it doesnt solve many of hte issues that were there before hand :rolleyes:

[blue_max]

LOL :D But then sometimes they try to change some things in a big way for version 2 and then..just sometimes it doesnt solve many of hte issues that were there before hand :rolleyes:


and you pine for the lean and mean version 1.

Don't forget the trick of changing the name to make it look even newer ie cs/cs2 or mx/mx2004.

It still makes me smile that I only use 5% of Photoshop's capability and still do everything I ever need.

Graham

[jfrancho]

LOL :D But then sometimes they try to change some things in a big way for version 2 and then..just sometimes it doesnt solve many of hte issues that were there before hand :rolleyes:Watch out for buzz words and letter designations, too: Optimized, Studio, High Speed, SE, XP....

[Nolz]

I bought mine whilst travelling overseas, and didn't think too much of the warranty issues as my 300D was faultless.
I get back to Australia and with the 20D in my posession for 1 month, it goes dicky on me :(

Canon have now had it near 2 weeks and I am going to have to fork out a mint to get it fixed....these things are never cheap.

Disappointed but at the same time I can't wait to get it back. I just hope the issues are worked out.

[SidW]

I agree with most of the posts here, regarding the reliability and quality of Canon's products.

I've had 2 Canon film cameras and 1 DSLR and five lenses. I've never had a technical problem with any of them (even the grip), and I don't consider myself lucky in this regard.

If I went on the opinions of the minute minority who complain the loudest, I would never have bought anything.

By the way, I'm still learning how to use the stuff I've got, properly. My photos are rubbish but the quality of them is great.:) :)

Have fun

Sid

[smirchfa]

Presumably that store isn't B&H? Interesting that (presumably for price reasons?) the better value/price/service combination for you was NOT buying where you work.

Or do I presume too much? :o

J

You presume correctly. I don't work at B&H, I work at, well, a very large national photo conglomerate that has one person's last name on the front of the store. :rolleyes: Oh, B&H is much cheaper, I never buy anything of value at my job, the employee discount doesn't even cover the tax, much less the tremendous mark up. And ed2day, yes I was a little surprised that they wouldn't help at all, they were actually pretty rude. I asked them up front if the open software was a problem and their response was "ummm, yeah" then dead air. Oh well, that's life, and at least Canon fixed it at warp speed.