My First "Fight" Over An Image .. Free Use? Pound Sand...

[FlyingPhotog]

So I get this email from an aquaintence that shows an aviation image of mine incorporated into a design for the cover of a freebie handout notebook by her company. Turns out the aircraft pictured is her bosses plane and she though it would be a good idea to use it for this project.

So I bring up the subject of a licensing fee and also make the suggestion of using a higher res version than the one she lifted off my site (seems professional designers have software that can get around the right-click protection on Zenfolio...we'll be addressing the watermark issue in the morning.) I also brought up the idea of doing a proper shoot so that she could get exactly the angle that would work best in her layout.

Ok, so no sale on the "proper shoot." Had to try, right? Instead, I get the old "Let me use it and I'll introduce you to my boss and it will be good advertising, open doors, he knows people who know people, blah, blah, blah..."

I stick to my guns and remind her that she lifted the image without my approval and that she was in the wrong for taking this idea to her boss without consulting me first and that it put me in a bind because my two choices right up front were:

A) Give it away and disrespect myself and my profession
B) Say No and lose out all the way around.

Ok, so I've only been "in business" for a short while but IMO, that doesn't mean my photography is of any lesser quality nor am I worthy of less than professional respect.

Long story short: No Deal and keep your Sticky Little Mouse out of my galleries. Aquaintance is probably gone for good but I don't really freakin' care.

Just thought I'd share this little tale...

Have A Nice Day and Don't Cave ;)

[Kleppy]

Go along with it but don't give it free, just keep going along. Wait until you've got him on board before you hard nose it. Drop the bomb on him about how this all went down. Then you can explain what you've already talked to he about. If the guy owns a plane, maybe he'll bite on a shoot. After all it's his PLANE and he just might want to get a nice shot of it. Then let HIM introduce you to other people. Get her out of it ASAP.

[FlyingPhotog]

Go along with it but don't give it free, just keep going along. Wait until you've got him on board before you hard nose it. Drop the bomb on him about how this all went down. Then you can explain what you've already talked to he about. If the guy owns a plane, maybe he'll bite on a shoot. After all it's his PLANE and he just might want to get a nice shot of it. Then let HIM introduce you to other people. Get her out of it ASAP.

Too Late...

I don't have the patience to play that game.

Her response was "Well, there are lots of other pictures that will work and lots of other planes out there as well..."

My Thought: Well, there are lots of other pilots out there that will work and lots of other planes to shoot.

IMO, Life's too short to screw around with this kind of crap.

Already went and made all my Zenfolio watermarks into dead-center ©'s so that ought to settle that issue for now. Sorry if folks throughout Transportation find it annoying.

[jacuff]

1) Make sure that image is registered with the US Copyright office.
2) Wait to see if they infringe anyways.
3) If they do, sue for damages.

[karfeef]

surely the image is copyrighted to the photographer anyway, why would you need to register it?

[Kleppy]

Because then there is a legal leg to stand on. It's burden of proof that they are his and that he is owed damages.

[karfeef]

so would one have to register every image they take because if not, anyone can use them as they wish? i'd take a pretty good guess that most of the images on sites like flickr and personal websites are not registered with a copyright office, so how can anyone threaten legal action if an image is taken and used without consent if there is no legal leg to stand on?

apologies if the text above comes across as arsey in any way, it certainly isn't meant that way - just trying to understand it =)

[Kleppy]

It's assumed that the pictures are yours but if there is paperwork followed with a DVD containing your images with your name on it at the US Copyright office, it's hard to say it's NOT yours and usage is fair game (which it's not).

[Lyndon Chen]

Good for you Jay. I run across this attitude all the time. Just stick to your guns. Photography has value, clearly, and should be paid for. At least she had the sense to come to you asking for permission first.

[karfeef]

It's assumed that the pictures are yours but if there is paperwork followed with a DVD containing your images with your name on it at the US Copyright office, it's hard to say it's NOT yours and usage is fair game (which it's not).

gotcha

[SwitchBlade]

It's a bit different in the US than here. They make you register your work for copyright over there so they can make some money out of you. Difference is that there without registration like here the most you can get in damages is the realistic cost you'd be out by for the use of the image, once registered they can start claiming silly money for a breach of copyright from what I've seen/read.

As for:
seems professional designers have software that can get around the right-click protection on Zenfolio...we'll be addressing the watermark issue in the morning.
Disabling right clicking has never worked for stopping people copying images as all they have to do is hit Print Screen to get a screenshot and then save that. Large resolution screen and they can get the large version of your image. Want to make you images unstealable and you need to either go for silly watermarks or hideously low res/quality.

[Big Frost]

Already went and made all my Zenfolio watermarks into dead-center ©'s so that ought to settle that issue for now. Sorry if folks throughout Transportation find it annoying.

Just curious...is that an option on Zenfolio, or did you do that to your images before uploading?

[krb]

seems professional designers have software that can get around the right-click protection on Zenfolio...
There are plugins for Firefox that can handle it. If nothing else, you can monitor HTTP requests to snag the URL of images being loaded.

[RDKirk]

surely the image is copyrighted to the photographer anyway, why would you need to register it?

The court won't hear the case if it's not registered (although by law they can, in fact, they won't bother). Moreover, because without registration the most the copyright owner can garner from court are the reasonable damages for infringement--the fees the image would have earned. Therefore, it's not worth it to most lawyers who work on contingency, and seldom worth it to the photographer to pay the legal fees.

Ah, but if it is registered, then the law provides for statutory damages in the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. So the court will hear the case and it becomes worthwhile to a lawyer to take it on contingency. In most cases, all the lawyer really has to do is advise the defendent, "We have the registration" and an out-of-court settlement happens pretty quickly.

Registering US copyright is pretty easy and can be extremely cheap per image. It can be done all online: For $35 you can register as many tiny jpegs as you can stay awake to upload in one session, if they're currently unpublished. If they have been published, you're limited to 700 images for your $35 registration.

A lot of busy commercial photographers simply bundle everything they've done every quarter-annum and register the mass. There is a 90-day grace period in the law that protects them even if an image shot the first day of the quarter had already been infringed by the time they register it.

[kona77]

Jay,
I think you handled it well, after all is it your photo. I would address her stealing your photo and ask her a set of questions that would make her squirm. Imagine stealing something from her company and telling her that you will give her credit for it. I am appalled at the lack of respect for the photographers and their business assets. Your photos are fantastic, no wonder she wanted to use it.

[bacchanal]

Just curious...is that an option on Zenfolio, or did you do that to your images before uploading?

It's an option on Zenfolio. You can overlay custom watermarks after you upload.

[wndrlst]

Kudos for sticking to your guns. I'm finding it easier and easier to say no to these unreasonable requests. And yes, the fact that she deliberately nicked it from your site says to me you don't need her acquaintanceship anyway.

[Concretin Nik]

A) Give it away and disrespect myself and my profession
B) Say No and lose out all the way around.
I like this. Is a clear and matter of fact way to explain it to someone without being a jerk.
Thanks!

[Tom Reichner]

surely the image is copyrighted to the photographer anyway, why would you need to register it?

Because then you will be awarded a minimum of $1500 per image that is published in violation of the copyright. Otherwise, all you will be awarded in court is the amount you missed out on by not getting paid. In this case, he's missing out on $0 because the "publishers" aren't going to use any image that they have to pay for.
(the $ figure I used may not be the exact amount that courts award, but the gist of what I'm saying is true)

[JWright]

Stick to your guns, Jay.

My philosophy about it if it were my image is a bit different because I'm not trying to make a living with my photography. If someone lifted my image without permission and I found out about it, I won't give one inch but if someone contacts me beforehand about using an image, then we'll talk.

At the risk of inflaming those who say never give away an image because it undercuts other photographers; if someone contacts me about using an image and I happen to think the use is worthwhile and I get some kind of credit, then I'll grant use of it for free.

[Zansho]

Reminds me of the time a old fashioned limo style company contacted me (they had a 52 Caddy that I shot for a wedding, with the B&G in the image) saying they had full rights to the image due to the fact it was of their one of a kind car, and that I should cease and desist on using it because it belongs to them.

I lol'd at that one, and just said in diplo-speak "I wasn't born yesterday, and you won't be taking advantage of me. You can stick your threats right where the sun doesn't shine. :)"

[SnapLocally.com]

I've sent companies bills through Paypal before. In all instances they've ceased using my images.

Registering images is the "right" thing to do I suppose, but man, that sounds like a pain in the ass.

[AZAlphaDog]

So, Jay now you know what it's like. Not the most fun to have other people treat your hard work and creativity as something that should just be given away for free.

Everyone wondered why I watermark my images right in the middle, now you know.

My experience with car racer's is that the more money they have (expensive vintage race cars) the less willing they are to spend money on prints or purchasing images.

So, from my experience if someone has enough money to purchase a plane it is very unlikely that they will be willing to purchase prints or license an image for commercial usage.

Sad, but seems to be the case.

So many guys (wink, wink, nudge nudge know what I mean) are willing to let their stuff go for free, or for a credit line that it makes it harder for "working stiffs" to feed their families.

[FlyingPhotog]

Glad to see the majority here are in agreement.

It saddens me a bit to have to lose an aquaintence over this because there probably could have been some good come of it down the road but as the saying goes:

"Screw Me Once, Shame On You" .. "Screw Me Twice, Shame On Me"

There won't be a twice...

[Shooter4Life]

(seems professional designers have software that can get around the right-click protection on Zenfolio...we'll be addressing the watermark issue in the morning.)
Doesn't take a professional designer, it's called print screen. I tested it on my own zenfolio account. I found out the hard way. I did a wedding and when I walked into the reception there was a slideshow of every photo on my website from the engagement session. Every since then my blog and website gets a big fat ugly watermark. Most people don't care about low resolution as long as they can make out what it is. The slideshow looked awful in 72dpi, but they loved it cause it didn't cost them anything. :cry:

It's an option on Zenfolio. You can overlay custom watermarks after you upload.
That option is only available in the premium package.
You can simply make an action to put it on every photo before you upload to your account. The only thing is if you're selling prints from your website it won't remove the watermark, with the premium package it will. Premium equals $100.00 a year ;)

[WillMass]

Jay,

The only thing I would add is to suggest that all of us personalize our watermarks with our name or the name of our business, etc. This will make them easily identifiable and also makes it easier for others to report the abuse to you. I always let a photographer know when I've seen one of their watermarked images in use somewhere, and it's usually appreciated.

[HappySnapper90]

(seems professional designers have software that can get around the right-click protection on Zenfolio.

It's called the Print Screen button on the keyboard. :o

[Scout7id]

I think you did the right thing, Jay! Too many people today feel like this type of "stealing" is okay. It's a shame, really.

[PhotosGuy]

So I get this email from an acquaintance that shows an aviation image of mine incorporated into a design for the cover of a freebie handout notebook by her company. I'm wondering where he saw it? It could be that it was published technically, even though it wasn't actually published as a book. Could be trouble for her. we'll be addressing the watermark issue in the morning. Was it watermarked, & did she remove it? More trouble if she did. IMO, Life's too short to screw around with this kind of crap. I can identify with that, too, but sometimes you just want to excise your pound of flesh? :D

[neilwood32]

I dont make any money from photography but if someone wanted one of my photo's for a flyer( highly unlikely with my photos), I would certainly want some pay for it.

Stick to your guns on it Jay - your photographs are great and worth good money.

[Joelene]

Long story short: No Deal and keep your Sticky Little Mouse out of my galleries. Aquaintance is probably gone for good but I don't really freakin' care

You had me at "no deal"

Good for you for sticking to your guns! I wish EVERY shooter had the balls to do what you did. Kudos.