Tv, Av or P mode?

[photopat]

After shooting for a few years I'm asking myself some existential questions. What mode should I choose for outdoor sports with my 1D II?

When I have a lot of light, I'm going with a wide Av priority and make sure that the speed is always fast enough.

If it's cloudy, the speed become the problem and I'm usually choosing Tv at or above 1/250 to freeze players movement. I can also bump the ISO to stay within limits.

The problem is when there is a lot of lighting change if I'm in the wrong mode I'm loosing speed or my blurry background. And when you are following actions through your lens, you can't always change you settings in the fly.

I wish that there would be a mixed Program mode where you can specify something like:

1st priority Tv: Always at or above 250
2nd priority Av: as wide as possible but always wider than f/8
3rd priority ISO: as low as possible, but always lower than 800

With all the computer power on board, it shouldn't be difficult to let user define their own program modes. Pros are always joking about entry level camera multiple modes, but sometimes I wish that we had some customizable P mode on pro level cameras.

[canonnoob]

there is a solution to this. Shoot in manual mode. If the light changes then you have plenty of choices to make. With sports I stray away from the auto modes, especially TV and P because honestly if they meter wrong, then you are totally screwed up exposure wise.

[zelseman]

Beat me to it. Manual all the way.

[DDCSD]

Manual, keeping the lens pretty close to wide open for most sports (for shallower depth of field). Set the shutter speed where I want it and adjust ISO as necessary.

[AdamLewis]

there is a solution to this. Shoot in manual mode. If the light changes then you have plenty of choices to make. With sports I stray away from the auto modes, especially TV and P because honestly if they meter wrong, then you are totally screwed up exposure wise.

Hmm...I wouldnt really say youre screwed up exposure-wise. I mean the camera is just a computer that does what you tell it to. Now if youre using spot metering and any program mode and you spot off of a black jersey, you may think the exposure is 'wrong' but youve got to realize that the camera only did exactly what you told it to.

I wouldnt ever use Av or P because theyre not giving you control over shutter speed. With sports, shutter speed is what you really care about. Ill take a clear picture with tons of DOF over a totally blurry picture with zero DOF.

Tv definitely has its uses especially in motorsports and panning. M is great when light isnt changing but I would never hesitate to employ Tv if conditions are varying. The one caveat is that if you are going to use a program mode, make sure to set the camera's metering mode to coincide with whatever you are shooting (consider sport, venue, lighting condition, uniforms, etc). Sometimes spot may be necessary and sometimes Evaluative/Matrix might be the right way to go. Just make the tool work for you instead of working for the tool ;)

[canonnoob]

Hmm...I wouldnt really say youre screwed up exposure-wise. I mean the camera is just a computer that does what you tell it to. Now if youre using spot metering and any program mode and you spot off of a black jersey, you may think the exposure is 'wrong' but youve got to realize that the camera only did exactly what you told it to.

I wouldnt ever use Av or P because theyre not giving you control over shutter speed. With sports, shutter speed is what you really care about. Ill take a clear picture with tons of DOF over a totally blurry picture with zero DOF.

Tv definitely has its uses especially in motorsports and panning. M is great when light isnt changing but I would never hesitate to employ Tv if conditions are varying. The one caveat is that if you are going to use a program mode, make sure to set the camera's metering mode to coincide with whatever you are shooting (consider sport, venue, lighting condition, uniforms, etc). Sometimes spot may be necessary and sometimes Evaluative/Matrix might be the right way to go. Just make the tool work for you instead of working for the tool ;)

Very good point. The exposure isnt wrong, its just doing what you told it to do... so would you be wrong or what? lol

[BenJohnson]

Cameras are going towards what you described. I'll occasionally use Av mode for outdoors under changing light. I would always rather shoot wide open, so I never use Tv mode. With Av I set the ISO high enough so that I'm well above the minimum shutter speed I need to stop the action. With Safety Shift turned on, I can even push the shutter speeds near 1/8000sec without having to worry about blown out shots if the sun does peek through.

On newer bodies you can also use Manual mode and then use Auto ISO. This will allow you to choose your shutter speed and aperture, and the camera will choose the ISO in order to "properly" expose the image. With different cameras the auto ISO will be restricted to different ranges (40D - Auto ISO doesn't really work in Manual mode, 7D Auto ISO will use anything from 100-6400). I believe the T2i now has an option to limit the max and min ISO values that the camera will use! I could see that being very nice to have in certain situations.

As nice as that all sounds, it still comes down to the fact that the camera is still choosing what it "thinks" is the proper exposure. You can limit the settings down to a range that you think is right, but the camera can still be easily "fooled". In all situations it is still ideal to shoot in Manual and nail the exposure yourself, rather than let the camera decide.

[AdamLewis]

Very good point. The exposure isnt wrong, its just doing what you told it to do... so would you be wrong or what? lol

You would be wrong only insofar as you are improperly using a tool I suppose.

[blackhawk]

Dial M... Av if you can't set up quick enough...

ha-ha, P is for total, I've lost it completely Panic mode:p

[tracknut]

I'll be the odd man out...

M is great when the lighting is consistent. Otherwise, AV is what you want. You say you want the maximum aperture, and AV will let you set that. Then set your ISO so you get your 1/250th. Then as the light changes, you just keep an eye on your shutter speed and bump the ISO as needed.

Dave

[monk3y]

If i shoot candid and snapshots I always use AV, TV if I am mobile and manual for everything else.

I find AV difficult to control under varying conditions...

[asysin2leads]

When shooting outdoor sports during the day, I will shoot Av at 2.8-3.2. I want good background separation. I will set EC on +1/3 to +2/3. I can boost iso if shutter speed drops a bit. If I am shooting at night when lighting conditions are rather steady, it's manual all the way.

Here is some interesting watching. Check out "Scott Sewell" on Youtube.

Football Photography - Exposure by Scott Sewell (http://*******/9dP4kI)

[RSB]

It's a bit like Photoshop, there are a lot of different ways to do the same thing and produce similar results. In the bright conditions the OP described, I always shoot AV, wide open, and dial in plus or minus compensation on the fly as conditions merit; backlight, white uniforms, black uniforms, dark faces under helmets or ball caps, etc. You need to understand what your in-camera meter is telling you, then dial in the necessary adjustments to match what your eyes are telling you.

[monk3y]

It's a bit like Photoshop, there are a lot of different ways to do the same thing and produce similar results. In the bright conditions the OP described, I always shoot AV, wide open, and dial in plus or minus compensation on the fly as conditions merit; backlight, white uniforms, black uniforms, dark faces under helmets or ball caps, etc. You need to understand what your in-camera meter is telling you, then dial in the necessary adjustments to match what your eyes are telling you.

If I do this, and always adjust EC, I might as well do it in manual... and just adjust the shutter speed.

as for me... the purpose of AV is to adjust the desired EC & aperture then just let the camera adjust the shutter speed. so if I keep adjusting the EC IMHO it defeats the purpose. might as well use M :)

[canonnoob]

If I do this, and always adjust EC, I might as well do it in manual... and just adjust the shutter speed.

as for me... the purpose of AV is to adjust the desired EC & aperture then just let the camera adjust the shutter speed. so if I keep adjusting the EC IMHO it defeats the purpose. might as well use M :)

exactly... honestly, I see no point in using AV sometimes especially if this is the case.

[jonneymendoza]

there is a solution to this. Shoot in manual mode. If the light changes then you have plenty of choices to make. With sports I stray away from the auto modes, especially TV and P because honestly if they meter wrong, then you are totally screwed up exposure wise.
But you can easily correct this on pp.

[canonnoob]

But you can easily correct this on pp.


why not get it right in camera before hand so you dont have to spend the time in PP? Many of us who work in media, try and stress that. Get it right first and you dont have to do anything else.

[AdamLewis]

But you can easily correct this on pp.

Only to a degree. Its not like everything can be fixed all the time.

why not get it right in camera before hand so you dont have to spend the time in PP? Many of us who work in media, try and stress that. Get it right first and you dont have to do anything else.

Exactly. Your best bet it so simply get it right the first time around. All the modes are tools and I could think of uses for all of them. I think its narrow-minded to say you should only shoot in one mode EVER. I think the right answer is that you should shoot in whatever mode lends itself the most to the current shooting environment.

As a perfect example...

When I shot basketball with my MkIII, I would shoot Manual for the court because the light on the court was always the same. However, what if I wanted to turn around quickly and grab a picture of some fans in the stands? What do I do then? I could either fiddle around with settings that are going to vary depending on which dark corner of the arena I point my lens at OR I could let the camera do the work. In this case, I assigned the * button to switch to a pre-determined shooting mode (which was actually Tv with a shutter speed of 1/320). By using that, along with ISO safety shift, I could count on the camera getting a good picture of the people in the stands without having to change settings twice (once to expose for the people in the stands and once to change back to shooting on the court). Little things like that and things like fully customizable Auto-ISO on Nikon cameras arent just gimmicks or kiddie modes. Theyre serious tools that can allow you to respond to situations faster than you previously could. You may not ever be in a place to use them, but to just ignore them or say that theyre useless is just plain crazy.

[canonnoob]

Only to a degree. Its not like everything can be fixed all the time.



Exactly. Your best bet it so simply get it right the first time around. All the modes are tools and I could think of uses for all of them. I think its narrow-minded to say you should only shoot in one mode EVER. I think the right answer is that you should shoot in whatever mode lends itself the most to the current shooting environment.

As a perfect example...

When I shot basketball with my MkIII, I would shoot Manual for the court because the light on the court was always the same. However, what if I wanted to turn around quickly and grab a picture of some fans in the stands? What do I do then? I could either fiddle around with settings that are going to vary depending on which dark corner of the arena I point my lens at OR I could let the camera do the work. In this case, I assigned the * button to switch to a pre-determined shooting mode (which was actually Tv with a shutter speed of 1/320). By using that, along with ISO safety shift, I could count on the camera getting a good picture of the people in the stands without having to change settings twice (once to expose for the people in the stands and once to change back to shooting on the court). Little things like that and things like fully customizable Auto-ISO on Nikon cameras arent just gimmicks or kiddie modes. Theyre serious tools that can allow you to respond to situations faster than you previously could. You may not ever be in a place to use them, but to just ignore them or say that theyre useless is just plain crazy.


I was like who is this... and then i noticed you changed your avatar adam.. Glad to see you are posting more.

[jonneymendoza]

why not get it right in camera before hand so you dont have to spend the time in PP? Many of us who work in media, try and stress that. Get it right first and you dont have to do anything else.
yes im aware of that but the fact is you cant get ti right all the time mate and a bit of under or voer exposed shots can be easily fixed on pp.

Plus what you see in the viewfinder is not 100% accurate to when you later view the same pics in your computer.



PP is their to assist you only so don't ignore it and at the same time don't rely heavily on it.

[RSB]

Like I stated, there are a lot of ways to produce the same results. This is how I have shot literally millions of action images, and it works for me. Many of those images were shot on chrome, which had about a 1/3 stop latitude, and there was no post processing for corrections. You either nailed it or tossed it.

[asysin2leads]

If I do this, and always adjust EC, I might as well do it in manual... and just adjust the shutter speed.

as for me... the purpose of AV is to adjust the desired EC & aperture then just let the camera adjust the shutter speed. so if I keep adjusting the EC IMHO it defeats the purpose. might as well use M :)

If I can put it in AV, set the iso and AV, then I know what type of Tv range I want to keep. It's less fiddling when you go from sun at your back to the sun at <90 degrees. If it's in manual, then I have to constantly fiddle w/ settings. This is when shooting in variable lighting conditions, like daytime sports. Why have to constantly change Tv while in M to get exposure right. Let the camera do a little of the work. Canon engineers put all that hard work into the camera system. ;)

why not get it right in camera before hand so you dont have to spend the time in PP? Many of us who work in media, try and stress that. Get it right first and you dont have to do anything else.

I agree about getting it right in camera as much as possible. Short of a little cropping and USM, I try to avoid any post for sports pics. It saves SOOOO much time.

[canonnoob]

I agree about getting it right in camera as much as possible. Short of a little cropping and USM, I try to avoid any post for sports pics. It saves SOOOO much time.

yup.. get it right in camera and then all you might have to do is add some sharpening (assuming you are shooting RAW) crop and export.

[jonneymendoza]

Like I stated, there are a lot of ways to produce the same results. This is how I have shot literally millions of action images, and it works for me. Many of those images were shot on chrome, which had about a 1/3 stop latitude, and there was no post processing for corrections. You either nailed it or tossed it.

shoot in jpeg then not raw if yoru not going to do any PP.

[photopat]

With all the computer power on board, it shouldn't be difficult to let user define their own program modes. Pros are always joking about entry level camera multiple modes, but sometimes I wish that we had some customizable P mode on pro level cameras.

By reading all your answers I see that my question was not without foundations.
I'll continue then to play with Tv, Av and manual until we have a user programmable P mode. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think I never ever shoot P with this camera.

[vreeke]

anytime always everywhere AV 2,8 gives background separation what you like all the time, tv must be 1/250 and iso is my job to do

[DDCSD]

I'm curious what you mean by "user-programmable P mode"?

[monk3y]

If I can put it in AV, set the iso and AV, then I know what type of Tv range I want to keep. It's less fiddling when you go from sun at your back to the sun at <90 degrees. If it's in manual, then I have to constantly fiddle w/ settings. This is when shooting in variable lighting conditions, like daytime sports. Why have to constantly change Tv while in M to get exposure right. Let the camera do a little of the work. Canon engineers put all that hard work into the camera system. ;)



I agree about getting it right in camera as much as possible. Short of a little cropping and USM, I try to avoid any post for sports pics. It saves SOOOO much time.

Actually I always use AV when shooting people, I just aim my meter at their face at least I am almost sure that they will be properly exposed. but other than that I use manual as I like to control the effect of the lighting on the photo. its just that I hate always adjusting EC relative to the environment coz its like a little short of using manual, so might as well use manual ;)

[monk3y]

As a perfect example...

When I shot basketball with my MkIII, I would shoot Manual for the court because the light on the court was always the same. However, what if I wanted to turn around quickly and grab a picture of some fans in the stands? What do I do then? I could either fiddle around with settings that are going to vary depending on which dark corner of the arena I point my lens at OR I could let the camera do the work. In this case, I assigned the * button to switch to a pre-determined shooting mode (which was actually Tv with a shutter speed of 1/320). By using that, along with ISO safety shift, I could count on the camera getting a good picture of the people in the stands without having to change settings twice (once to expose for the people in the stands and once to change back to shooting on the court). Little things like that and things like fully customizable Auto-ISO on Nikon cameras arent just gimmicks or kiddie modes. Theyre serious tools that can allow you to respond to situations faster than you previously could. You may not ever be in a place to use them, but to just ignore them or say that theyre useless is just plain crazy.


I don't have this feature.. but I think I can dial to M and Tv in a heartbeat. i'll try this, set AV or TV to the right settings for behind the scene shots. and use manual for the money shots hehe :)

[photopat]

I'm curious what you mean by "user-programmable P mode"?

that's what I wrote in my original post.
A mode where YOU can define the way the camera program behaves.
You define different priorities that must be met with condition like: Always keep the speed faster than 1/250, always wider than f/16, ISO always better than 400. Priority to aperture 1st, ISO 2nd, speed 3rd.

ie the camera will chose automagicaly the following (from brighter scene to darker):

1/8000, f/2.8, ISO 50
1/250, f/2.8, ISO 50
1/250, f/2.8, ISO 400
1/250, f/15, ISO 400

[AdamLewis]

I don't have this feature.. but I think I can dial to M and Tv in a heartbeat. i'll try this, set AV or TV to the right settings for behind the scene shots. and use manual for the money shots hehe :)

Its a great way to make the tool work for you. Only caveat is that, IIRC, the non-1 series bodies only safety shift by changing your aperture or shutter speed...not iso.

[AdamLewis]

that's what I wrote in my original post.
A mode where YOU can define the way the camera program behaves.
You define different priorities that must be met with condition like: Always keep the speed faster than 1/250, always wider than f/16, ISO always better than 400. Priority to aperture 1st, ISO 2nd, speed 3rd.

ie the camera will chose automagicaly the following (from brighter scene to darker):

1/8000, f/2.8, ISO 50
1/250, f/2.8, ISO 50
1/250, f/2.8, ISO 400
1/250, f/15, ISO 400

Sounds like you need a Nikon ;)
Nikon's auto-iso is one feature, of a handfull of features, that I'm surprised Canon hasn't copied.

[BenJohnson]

I'm not familiar with the Nikon auto-ISO, but the auto-ISO on the T2i appears to be a huge step in the right direction for Canon.

The 7D's auto-ISO is also quite useful, but still relies on the camera's metering system (obviously). I have M with auto-ISO set as my first user preset, and often use it like your preset * button.

[hooookup]

I don't even know how to use av or tv mode on my mk3. stays in manual 99.999999% of the time.

[AdamLewis]

I don't even know how to use av or tv mode on my mk3.

Im sorry.

[canonnoob]

Im sorry.

:lol::lol: I just fell out of my chair.. lol

[Sledhed]

In this case, I assigned the * button to switch to a pre-determined shooting mode

This is by far my favorite feature on my MKIII. Absolutely love it! I have mine set to AV and + 1/3. Works great for baseball if home plate is in the shade and second base is in bright sun.

[dmwierz]

Yeah, I'm with Chris. I use Av when the light is variable (different light at different places on the field, or outdoors with the Sun in and out of the clouds). Indoors, or when the light is consistent (night under the lights, or indoors, etc).

I don't believe I have used Tv in 5 years of shooting lots of different sports in many different circumstances. The problem I see with Tv is you're liable to end up with f/8 or something and your pictures will look like they were taken with a point and shoot rather than $10,000 worth of camera and glass.

[AdamLewis]

Yeah, I'm with Chris. I use Av when the light is variable (different light at different places on the field, or outdoors with the Sun in and out of the clouds). Indoors, or when the light is consistent (night under the lights, or indoors, etc).

I don't believe I have used Tv in 5 years of shooting lots of different sports in many different circumstances. The problem I see with Tv is you're liable to end up with f/8 or something and your pictures will look like they were taken with a point and shoot rather than $10,000 worth of camera and glass.

Everyone is different.

I think no matter what mode you employ, if you do it knowledgeably, youll get good results. I just look at what would happen if I were to mess it up. Like I said, if you mess up Av you may have the narrow DOF that everyone idolizes but it could be a blurry mess. If you mess up Tv, you may have more DOF but at least it wont be a blur. You even pretty much said it yourself. If youre going to fault Tv because 'you're liable to end up with f/8 or something and your pictures will look like they were taken with a point and shoot', you have to be fair and fault Av with something along the lines of 'you're liable to end up with 1/125 or something and your pictures will look like they were taken with a point and shoot'. I personally would just rather err on the side of having too much DOF rather than too much blur.

[DDCSD]

I really don't get these claims that you're going to get blurry shots in AV. If you're in AV mode, and your lens is wide open, you're going to get your fastest possible shutter speed anyways. If you're in TV mode, and set 1/500s, you're lens might not be able to open up any wider and you might end up with a shot that is mildly to severly underexposed.

I would contend that TV mode is only useful when you want to keep your shutter speed slow. If you want the fastest shutter speed possible given your lighting conditions, you'd want your lens wide open.

[clarence]

I really don't get these claims that you're going to get blurry shots in AV. If you're in AV mode, and your lens is wide open, you're going to get your fastest possible shutter speed anyways.
I think he's more concerned about focus blur from narrow DoF instead of motion blur from slow SS.

[AdamLewis]

I really don't get these claims that you're going to get blurry shots in AV. If you're in AV mode, and your lens is wide open, you're going to get your fastest possible shutter speed anyways. If you're in TV mode, and set 1/500s, you're lens might not be able to open up any wider and you might end up with a shot that is mildly to severly underexposed.

I would contend that TV mode is only useful when you want to keep your shutter speed slow. If you want the fastest shutter speed possible given your lighting conditions, you'd want your lens wide open.

Again, I stress the importance of learning to use your tool properly. This is a non-issue with safety-shift turned on.

[AdamLewis]

I think he's more concerned about focus blur from narrow DoF instead of motion blur from slow SS.

No. Im talking about shutter speed blur since that is the element that you dont directly control while shooting in Av.

[BenJohnson]

I always want to shoot at f/2.8.

I don't always want to shoot at a specific shutter speed.

There may be a minimum shutter speed I want, but there is never one specific shutter speed that I must have.

For example, I can take a shot at f/2.8, ISO100, 1/1000sec and it will look essentially identical to the same shot taken at f/2.8, ISO200, 1/2000sec.

But if I had show the first one at f/2.8, ISO100, 1/1000sec, and the second one at f/4, ISO200, 1,1000sec they would look different.

I can see your point about worrying about the shutter speed dropping too low, but that is completely operator error. Just keep the ISO high enough and you don't have to worry about this. I don't know that I've ever ran into problems losing shots because the DOF is too thin...

For this reason, I'd rather just use Av and set my ISO sufficiently high so that all the shots will look "the same" no matter what shutter speed the camera chooses. But with the 7D, I think the better solution for "auto" shooting is going to be Manual mode with Auto ISO. When I get some better lighting conditions, I will be trying it out.

[AdamLewis]

I always want to shoot at f/2.8.

I wouldnt. This is why I said everyone is different.

I don't always want to shoot at a specific shutter speed.

There may be a minimum shutter speed I want, but there is never one specific shutter speed that I must have.

For example, I can take a shot at f/2.8, ISO100, 1/1000sec and it will look essentially identical to the same shot taken at f/2.8, ISO200, 1/2000sec.

But if I had show the first one at f/2.8, ISO100, 1/1000sec, and the second one at f/4, ISO200, 1,1000sec they would look different.

I can see your point about worrying about the shutter speed dropping too low, but that is completely operator error. Just keep the ISO high enough and you don't have to worry about this. I don't know that I've ever ran into problems losing shots because the DOF is too thin...

For this reason, I'd rather just use Av and set my ISO sufficiently high so that all the shots will look "the same" no matter what shutter speed the camera chooses. But with the 7D, I think the better solution for "auto" shooting is going to be Manual mode with Auto ISO. When I get some better lighting conditions, I will be trying it out.

You do what works for you. Ill do what works for me. Im just trying to be honest and if youre going to fault one mode, I think you have to be fair and fault the other mode as well.

Like I said, if you use either mode properly and knowledgeably, I have no doubt you will get great results. I just prefer to use Tv if Im going to use a program mode. Thats just me.

[clarence]

No. Im talking about shutter speed blur since that is the element that you dont directly control while shooting in Av.

Oh, OK, then I have the same puzzled look that Derek has in wondering why Av with aperture wide-open would be a greater risk of slower shutter speeds and motion blur.

Until I switched to M, I tended to think in Av terms... set aperture then chimp the on-screen AE settings after a few shots to make sure you're getting adequate shutter speeds... if not bump up the ISO.

I never did find too many scenerios where a fixed Tv shutter speed helped me any more than Av or M.

I don't think anyone's faulting your mode... like you said, as long as it works for you, that's all that really matters. The intent was to help the OP know that there are other mode options used besides Av or M.

[AdamLewis]

Oh, OK, then I have the same puzzled look that Derek has in wondering why Av with aperture wide-open would be a greater risk of slower shutter speeds and motion blur.




Lets say youre shooting basketball and you use my example of turning from shooting the game to shooting fans. Imagine youre shooting Av at f/2.8 and you set your ISO so you get a shutter speed of 1/640. If you turn the to stands and take a picture where it might be 4 stops darker, now youve got a shot at 1/80. Not too bad unless youve got a 200mm lens (or maybe youre shooting someone really far away with a 300...) and theyre moving around cheering...

Now lets look at the same situation with Tv and safety-shift. Youre shooting with a shutter speed of 1/640 and an ISO that gives you f/2.8. When you turn to the stands now, youve still got your 1/640 shutter speed and the camera shifts the ISO up to an appropriate level since it cannot open the lens any wider. You get your shot properly exposed and without blur.

Another thing with regards to people worrying about DOF is illustrated here. If you set your Tv and ISO to give your lowest f-stop (probably 2.8 in this case) in the brightest conditions, safety shift will always (if you have a capable body) shift your ISO up when lighting conditions change and you will still have your fast shutter speed AND your 2.8 aperture. In other words, if you learn to use it, you will never have a problem where the camera just gives you f/8. In actuality, you need to look at and realize that if the camera gave you f/8, its because you told it to...

Of course all this is moot when you have a camera with a useful auto-iso feature that lets you set the minimum shutter speed along with maximum ISO. In that case, I would use Av and Auto-ISO if I were not wanting to shoot in manual.

And again, I just want to state that using either mode knowledgeably will produce great results. Im just pointing out a particular possible shortfall of using Av while explaining why, in a given situation, I would use Tv instead.

[BenJohnson]

What bodies do ISO safety shift? Only recent 1-series?

With my bodies, only aperture or shutter speed changes are made (as far as I know), so your method won't work for me, but seems good for your scenario.

But a proper Auto ISO in Manual mode or Av with ability to set max/min shutter speeds would be most useful....

[AdamLewis]

What bodies do ISO safety shift? Only recent 1-series?

With my bodies, only aperture or shutter speed changes are made (as far as I know), so your method won't work for me, but seems good for your scenario.

But a proper Auto ISO in Manual mode or Av with ability to set max/min shutter speeds would be most useful....

Im not 100% sure which bodies do and dont. All I can say with certainty is that the 1DMkIII does it which is precisely why I employed Tv mode as described. It was pretty much a way of rigging up a handicapped Auto-ISO setup without actually having a true Auto-ISO feature. Now that I shoot Nikon, I take complete advantage of Auto-ISO when in varying light.

I will add to this that after playing with my brother-in-law's 7D, you can cause that camera to emulate the same effect described from a 1D where ISO shifts (despite there not being an ISO option in the safety-shift custom function)

[clarence]

What bodies do ISO safety shift? Only recent 1-series?

With my bodies, only aperture or shutter speed changes are made (as far as I know), so your method won't work for me, but seems good for your scenario.

But a proper Auto ISO in Manual mode or Av with ability to set max/min shutter speeds would be most useful....


The OP has a 1D Mk II (which is also my backup body).

1D2 Manual says...
"C.Fn-16 Safety shift setting. Safety shift can be set for the shutter-priority AE and aperture-prioity AE modes.
1: If the subject's brightness changes suddenly and the current shutter-priority AE or aperture-priority AE setting becomes unsuitable, the shutter speed or aperture is shifted to obtain a suitable exposure automatically."

I guess I could play with it, and try to figure out exactly what it does and try to understand the changes it'll make when it deems my setting to "become unsuitable".

But, I prefer the simplicity and control of Av and M without checking to interpret when and why the camera is trying to help me out.

Again, not criticizing your choice of Safety Shift, Adam... you've obviously figured out how to use it with Tv to get the results in a predictable manner.

[DDCSD]

Everyone realizes that the OP was specifically asking about outdoors sports with his 1DII, right?

All of the advice about using 7D's and 1DIII's indoors doesn't really apply here. He also specifically complained about his backgrounds not being as blurry as he likes when using TV or P.

[AdamLewis]

But, I prefer the simplicity and control of Av and M without checking to interpret when and why the camera is trying to help me out.

Again, not criticizing your choice of Safety Shift, Adam... you've obviously figured out how to use it with Tv to get the results in a predictable manner.

Then were at agreement here. I fully believe that people should shoot in a way that favors their shooting style and allows them to get the shots they desire. If I came across as attacking one shooting style over another, I apologize. I didnt mean to. I simply hoped to point out issues with all modes and possible ways around those issues. Obviously no mode is perfect or there wouldnt be a mode dial on a camera ;)

[AdamLewis]

Everyone realizes that the OP was specifically asking about outdoors sports with his 1DII, right?

All of the advice about using 7D's and 1DIII's indoors doesn't really apply here. He also specifically complained about his backgrounds not being as blurry as he likes wheb using TV or P.

Just because an example is given indoors doesnt mean it cant apply outdoors. Thats awfully close-minded of you to think so. If you marinate on what Ive posted, you can swap out 'basketball court' with 'baseball field' and end up in the same situation where the field is brightly lit and the stands could be darker in the shade.

As far as what camera is involved, the mode I have mentioned may work for a 1DMkII. I honestly dont know. Again, if you take time to ingest what Im saying, the 7D appears to behave in the same fashion despite not explicitly displaying such a mode (ISO safety shift) as a possibility.

I have never shot with a 1DMkII nor do I know what I can and cannot do. All Im saying is that by simply looking at features, I would have assumed that a 7D was incapable of doing this as well.

If you want to find fault with for providing information outside of what the OP asked, then go ahead.

[DDCSD]

Just because an example is given indoors doesnt mean it cant apply outdoors. Thats awfully close-minded of you to think so. If you marinate on what Ive posted, you can swap out 'basketball court' with 'baseball field' and end up in the same situation where the field is brightly lit and the stands could be darker in the shade.

As far as what camera is involved, the mode I have mentioned may work for a 1DMkII. I honestly dont know. Again, if you take time to ingest what Im saying, the 7D appears to behave in the same fashion despite not explicitly displaying such a mode (ISO safety shift) as a possibility.

I have never shot with a 1DMkII nor do I know what I can and cannot do. All Im saying is that by simply looking at features, I would have assumed that a 7D was incapable of doing this as well.

If you want to find fault with for providing information outside of what the OP asked, then go ahead.


"Marinate" on this. The 1DMkII does not have an ISO safety shift. If you turn on safety shift on the MkII (in TV mode) and have your shutter speed set at 1/250s and your camera has set your aperture as f/2.8 (wide open) and then turn to the crowd that is 4 stops dimmer, the camera will not adjust your ISO, it will drop your shutter speed down to 1/15s in order to get a proper exposure.

He also pointed out that he wanted his backgrounds to be blurred. Lets try substituting baseball for basketball. Setting the camera to safety shift in TV mode on the 1DII won't do that. Let's say that its mostly cloudy and you set your camera for proper exposure in the "shade" at 1/1000s and its picks f/4 as your aperture. Now you swing over to the center fielder and the sun pops out at the same time. Your camera tells the lens to stop down all the way to f/22. Even at f/22, you're going to be about 1 stop overexposed so the camera then ignores the shutter speed setting of 1/1000s and "shifts" it to 1/2000s. That's not gonna help keep his backgrounds blurred.

That is why I felt it was important to point out that the advice being given does not apply to the OP's situation. I was just trying to save him from throwing his camera into the creek when it wouldn't do what he was told it could do.

[AdamLewis]

"Marinate" on this. The 1DMkII does not have an ISO safety shift.

Neither does the 7D but it does it.

If you turn on safety shift on the MkII (in TV mode) and have your shutter speed set at 1/250s and your camera has set your aperture as f/2.8 (wide open) and then turn to the crowd that is 4 stops dimmer, the camera will not adjust your ISO, it will drop your shutter speed down to 1/15s in order to get a proper exposure.

I cant argue with this. Like I said, I dont know what will happen. I have never used a 1DMkII. If you have used one and are sure of this, then I must concede your position.

He also pointed out that he wanted his backgrounds to be blurred. Lets try substituting baseball for basketball. Setting the camera to safety shift in TV mode on the 1DII won't do that. Let's say that its mostly cloudy and you set your camera for proper exposure in the "shade" at 1/1000s and its picks f/4 as your aperture. Now you swing over to the center fielder and the sun pops out at the same time. Your camera tells the lens to stop down all the way to f/22. Even at f/22, you're going to be about 1 stop overexposed so the camera then ignores the shutter speed setting of 1/1000s and "shifts" it to 1/2000s. That's not gonna help keep his backgrounds blurred.

Youre completely right. However, this is exactly why I said that you set your exposure initially in bright light and then allow the ISO to shift up in darker conditions.

As I have previously said, if this is impossible on the MkII, he obviously cannot do that.

That is why I felt it was important to point out that the advice being given does not apply to the OP's situation. I was just trying to save him from throwing his camera into the creek when it wouldn't do what he was told it could do.

Again, I dont know if it pertains to him or not. I have not used one.

[DDCSD]

Youre completely right. However, this is exactly why I said that you set your exposure initially in bright light and then allow the ISO to shift up in darker conditions.


On the 1DMkII if you meter for the bright sunlight and have it on TV with safety shift you're going to end up with wildy varying shutter speeds and depending on your aperture baseline you'll probably end up with way too low of shutter speeds in the shade, especially if the sun goes under the clouds.

Again, I was just trying to help the OP in his specific circumstances instead of giving general advice that doesn't pertain to the gear that he's using and not further confuse him. If he was using a 1DMkIII, your advice would have been great.

[BenJohnson]

How do you force the 7D to use ISO during Safety Shift?

Or do you mean Auto ISO?

[AdamLewis]

On the 1DMkII if you meter for the brights sunlight and have it on TV with safety shift you're going to end up with wildy varying shutter speeds and depending on your aperture baseline you'll probably end up with way too low of shutter speeds in the shade, especially if the sun goes under the clouds.

Im sorry but with the MkIII and ISO safety-shift, which is all I have talked about with any specificity, you are completely wrong. If you meter for a sunlit field, dial in your shutter speed, and set your ISO to get the aperture you want (2.8 in this case), when you go to a darker area, the shutter speed will not fluctuate whatsoever. The camera, in Tv mode, would TRY to drop the aperture lower. However, since it cannot, and since you have ISO shift on, it will simply raise your aperture. Your shutter speed and your aperture (provided it was already at its lowest) will not change.

Again, I was just trying to help the OP in his specific circumstances instead of giving general advice that doesn't pertain to the gear that he's using and not further confuse him. If he was using a 1DMkIII, your advice would have been great.

Again, I got that. Like I said, again, I dont know if it applies to him or not since I have never had anything to do with a MkII. Thanks for clearing up any ambiguity.

How do you force the 7D to use ISO during Safety Shift?

Or do you mean Auto ISO?

Im sorry. I do mean Auto-ISO. I thought I had the camera set one way when I apparently did not. Regardless though, it sill produces the desired effect.

[DDCSD]

Im sorry but with the MkIII and ISO safety-shift, which is all I have talked about with any specificity, you are completely wrong. If you meter for a sunlit field, dial in your shutter speed, and set your ISO to get the aperture you want (2.8 in this case), when you go to a darker area, the shutter speed will not fluctuate whatsoever. The camera, in Tv mode, would TRY to drop the aperture lower. However, since it cannot, and since you have ISO shift on, it will simply raise your aperture. Your shutter speed and your aperture (provided it was already at its lowest) will not change.


Again, the OP doesn't have a 1DMkIII. The situation that I described (and you quoted) was an explanation of what would happen if you were using a 1DMkII (note the "On the 1DMkII" that I started the sentence with). I already said that your advice was great for someone that owns a MkIII. If the OP had asked what mode he should use on his MkIII for this situation, you'd get a gold star for your advice and explanation.

Don't get so defensive when someone points out that you've given terrible advice and tries to keep the person asking questions from pulling their hair out. My comment wasn't "close-minded". It was an attempt to keep the advice being given relevant to the questions that were asked.

[jonneymendoza]

i have never used auto iso. i keep mine as low as possible and never go above 800. sometimes at 1600 when times are despereate but hardly anymore because i got a 430ex II and my mums tripod

[photopat]

That is why I felt it was important to point out that the advice being given does not apply to the OP's situation. I was just trying to save him from throwing his camera into the creek when it wouldn't do what he was told it could do.

Too late, I'm doomed to buy a 1D IV. Do you have a spell I can cast on my bank manager to make sure that he understand that I need auto ISO and safety shift ;-)

All these discussions are interesting and making me figure out some options I did not thought about before. But on the other hand, it also gave me some confidence that my shooting habits were not so stupid after all.

[DDCSD]

Too late, I'm doomed to buy a 1D IV. Do you have a spell I can cast on my bank manager to make sure that he understand that I need auto ISO and safety shift ;-)

All these discussions are interesting and making me figure out some options I did not thought about before. But on the other hand, it also gave me some confidence that my shooting habits were not so stupid after all.


You could just move up to a MkIII. I couldn't get the "manager" (my wife) to sign off on a MkIV! :lol:

[Dan-o]

I just use the green box, running man and mountain mode. Not sure what those others do.

[clarence]

I just use the green box, running man and mountain mode. Not sure what those others do.

Then you should read the manual before Spring to also learn the flower mode. ;)

My youngest son has a Elan IIE... it has a red "L" mode. I told him that mode must be for only when he uses my L lenses.

[Dan-o]

LOL

I don't know how many parents on the sideline have asked me " How can I get better pictures? I have it on the running man setting but they are still blurry"

[AdamLewis]

Again, the OP doesn't have a 1DMkIII. The situation that I described (and you quoted) was an explanation of what would happen if you were using a 1DMkII (note the "On the 1DMkII" that I started the sentence with). I already said that your advice was great for someone that owns a MkIII. If the OP had asked what mode he should use on his MkIII for this situation, you'd get a gold star for your advice and explanation.

Don't get so defensive when someone points out that you've given terrible advice and tries to keep the person asking questions from pulling their hair out. My comment wasn't "close-minded". It was an attempt to keep the advice being given relevant to the questions that were asked.


I find it hilarious you feel the need to call my advice 'terrible'. Speaks volumes about how you really feel. Stay classy.

[DDCSD]

I find it hilarious you feel the need to call my advice 'terrible'. Speaks volumes about how you really feel. Stay classy.


You're the one that jumped me for pointing out that the advice given wasn't going to be helpful to the OP. You then told me I need to marinate on it and that all you had to do was swap out indoors for outdoors and that it would be the same. You were wrong.

You also claimed that I don't know how to use my tools properly because I said that if the OP sets his camera to TV mode and his lens can't open up any more he'll get underexposed photos. You said that it'd be fine if he had safety shift on. That's true, but that means that instead of having underexposed photos, he'd end up with blurry ones. So yeah, his exposure would be fine with safety shift on, but he'd have well-exposed blurs.

Let's say you ask someone about how to replace the brake pads on a Ford Mustang and they explained how they change the pads on their Jeep Wrangler as if it is exactly the same process. You take that advice and go to change your brake pads. You get the tires off and find out that you don't have the right tools to change the pads because you are following directions that don't apply to your equipment.

That guy gave you pretty terrible advice, didn't he?

Again, don't feel the need to jump down people's throats so quickly when they say something contradictory to what you believe to be true. A lot of times you just end up your own foot in your mouth.


But in the interest of staying "classy" I'll offer up an apology to you for actually attempting to help the OP out. Next time someone posts asking about their 70-200 front-focusing on their 5D I'll just scream at everyone that says to send it into Canon to get it calibrated. I mean, my MkIII has micro-adjust, so obviously every one that has a 5D just doesn't know how to use their tools and micro-adjust their lenses! Pretty solid logic there, eh?

[AdamLewis]

lol. Crack me up man. Like I said, stay classy ;)

[DDCSD]

lol. Crack me up man. Like I said, stay classy ;)


Anytime. Just never admit to making mistakes and always insist that you're right, even when you're wrong. Remember, its all about you.

[AdamLewis]

Anytime. Just never admit to making mistakes and always insist that you're right, even when you're wrong. Remember, its all about you.

Sounds like youve got it down pat. :lol:

[DDCSD]

Sounds like youve got it down pat. :lol:


I would love for you to show me where I have given incorrect advice to the OP in this thread. Then show me where I jumped all over other people who were actually giving advice pertinent to the questions asked and told them that they just don't know how to use their tools when in reality their tools don't even have that capability. I'm certainly willing to admit when I'm wrong.

Or just keep ignoring the facts and act like I picked a fight with you. If you say it enough times it'll be true, right?

[AdamLewis]

I would love for you to show me where I have given incorrect advice to the OP in this thread. Then show me where I jumped all over other people who were actually giving advice pertinent to the questions asked and told them that they just don't know how to use their tools when in reality their tools don't even have that capability. I'm certainly willing to admit when I'm wrong.

Or just keep ignoring the facts and act like I picked a fight with you. If you say it enough times it'll be true, right?

:lol: Keep going. Laughter makes my day go by faster.

[DDCSD]

:lol: Keep going. Laughter makes my day go by faster.


That's what I thought.

[AdamLewis]

That's what I thought.

Well theres your first mistake ;)

[Sibil]

The discussion on ISO safety shift was very educational to me. I can see that it would be a very useful feature to me. I'll have to keep that feature in mind for when I decide to upgrade a body.

[AdamLewis]

Oh sibil don't listen to me. My advice is 'terrible' ;)

But seriously, iso safety shift is a very nice feature to have

[Paul S]

The discussion on ISO safety shift was very educational to me. I can see that it would be a very useful feature to me. I'll have to keep that feature in mind for when I decide to upgrade a body.

Its been sometime since I used my 40D but I think that has the ISO safety shift. But I could be wrong

[Sibil]

Paul;
I'll look into the 40D's features a bit closer. Thanks for the heads up.

Adam,
I don't think your advice was terrible. If I understood from pages of posts correctly, an observation was made as to it not being directly relevant to the OP's particular circumstances. Nevertheless, the value of your advice and experience was not lost on me. I, again, appreciate it and look forward to more of it.

[IronDad]

I always want to shoot at f/2.8.



So many people do this and I can't figure out how that works in sports. More often than not you can't focus on the face so you focus on the chest and at the distances and focal lengths involved the chest will be in focus but the face not.

Two things I've always remembered from a Sports Illustrated photo shoot of my daughter was the photographer said don't shoot less than f/4.0 or 1/800 sec.

[clarence]

So many people do this and I can't figure out how that works in sports. More often than not you can't focus on the face so you focus on the chest and at the distances and focal lengths involved the chest will be in focus but the face not.

Depth of Field calculator...
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

So let's say you're shooting a football/LAX/soccer player from 20 yards away with a 70-200 lens zoomed tight at 200mm f/2.8

That gives a 2.92 ft depth of field in focus with a 40D (or any 1.6x crop sensor)

or 10 yards away, 100mm, f/2.8 = 2.92 ft DoF

With a 1D Mk II (or any 1.3x sensor) you get 3.5' DoF

A player's face is usually in the same focal plane as their chest.

[IronDad]

Thanks for the link... funny... in practice that doesn't work for me and the DOF seems smaller.

[AdamLewis]

Depth of Field calculator...
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

So let's say you're shooting a football/LAX/soccer player from 20 yards away with a 70-200 lens zoomed tight at 200mm f/2.8

That gives a 2.92 ft depth of field in focus with a 40D (or any 1.6x crop sensor)

or 10 yards away, 100mm, f/2.8 = 2.92 ft DoF

With a 1D Mk II (or any 1.3x sensor) you get 3.5' DoF

A player's face is usually in the same focal plane as their chest.

Thanks for the link... funny... in practice that doesn't work for me and the DOF seems smaller.

The only thing funny is the example. If you shoot something 60ft away with a 200mm lens, of course youre going to have a lot of DOF. Youre also going to have a subject that comes nowhere close to filling the frame. Change it to a 400mm lens (which would actually deliver nice tight shots) and youve got less than a foot.

FWIW, Im with you. I dont know why people always want to shoot at 2.8. I shoot at 2.8 only if I have no other choice but to shoot at 2.8. Otherwise, Its f/4 since its sharper anyways and will give me marginally more DOF on my subjects.

[IronDad]

The only thing funny is the example. If you shoot something 60ft away with a 200mm lens, of course youre going to have a lot of DOF. Youre also going to have a subject that comes nowhere close to filling the frame. Change it to a 400mm lens (which would actually deliver nice tight shots) and youve got less than a foot.

FWIW, Im with you. I dont know why people always want to shoot at 2.8. I shoot at 2.8 only if I have no other choice but to shoot at 2.8. Otherwise, Its f/4 since its sharper anyways and will give me marginally more DOF on my subjects.

Yeah... I'm on the field and shooting less than 20ft away so at 200mm my depth of field is inches, not feet.

I'm with you on the f/4 unless I have to go lower.

[geoff5093]

Whenever I shoot sports I am always in manual mode, I don't want to risk metering on a dark colors jersey and have the shutter speed dip way down. I always get to the game early and take a few test shots to make sure the settings are correct to prevent motion blur and underexposing.

Now if I'm outside taking photos of landscapes or I'm in a location with varying lighting, I will typically use Av mode as I can choose whether I want less or more DOF.

[BenJohnson]

Its been sometime since I used my 40D but I think that has the ISO safety shift. But I could be wrong
40D Safety Shift does not change the ISO, just the aperture or shutter speed depending on what mode you are in.

Depth of Field calculator...
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

So let's say you're shooting a football/LAX/soccer player from 20 yards away with a 70-200 lens zoomed tight at 200mm f/2.8

That gives a 2.92 ft depth of field in focus with a 40D (or any 1.6x crop sensor)

or 10 yards away, 100mm, f/2.8 = 2.92 ft DoF

With a 1D Mk II (or any 1.3x sensor) you get 3.5' DoF

A player's face is usually in the same focal plane as their chest.
The only thing funny is the example. If you shoot something 60ft away with a 200mm lens, of course youre going to have a lot of DOF. Youre also going to have a subject that comes nowhere close to filling the frame. Change it to a 400mm lens (which would actually deliver nice tight shots) and youve got less than a foot.

FWIW, Im with you. I dont know why people always want to shoot at 2.8. I shoot at 2.8 only if I have no other choice but to shoot at 2.8. Otherwise, Its f/4 since its sharper anyways and will give me marginally more DOF on my subjects.
It's mostly preference, but I'm sure there are a LOT of people who shot at f/2.8 all the time. But it will all depend on the shot if there is or isn't enough in focus. And for blurring backgrounds, I'm sure that f/4 at 400mm is a lot nicer than at 200mm. At the focal lengths that I have, I always am shooting wide open to blur the backgrounds more.

I don't have a 400mm f/2.8 super tele, but with my 70-200 2.8, I've never really ran into any problems with the DOF being too thin. Here's an example shot at 200mm f/2.8 (on a 1.6x crop body). The focal point was on the center of the shot and (IMO) the face is acceptably in focus, and the background is nicely blurred. You can see the tip of the barrel is slightly out of focus. DOF is not a hard cutoff point, it is gradual.

http://benjohnson.smugmug.com/photos/519468838_dnm7r-M.jpg

[clarence]

The only thing funny is the example. If you shoot something 60ft away with a 200mm lens, of course youre going to have a lot of DOF. Youre also going to have a subject that comes nowhere close to filling the frame.

Glad you got a chuckle out of my example, but I thought that a 200mm 70-200mm lens would be more typical for the OP, instead of your 400/2.8

And 20 yards is a fairly typical range for following players in youth football, soccer, and lacrosse.

These examples are from a game shot at 200mm, f/2.8, when the players were all about 20 yards (60') away. When I get home this weekend I'll check to see if the EXIF contains the actual distance to subject.

1.
http://loco-photo.com/images/2009-10-24_5672.jpg

2.
http://loco-photo.com/images/2009-10-24_5873.jpg

3.
http://loco-photo.com/images/2009-10-24_5911.jpg

4.
http://loco-photo.com/images/2009-10-24_6917n.jpg

These were all Av mode.

[BenJohnson]

These examples are from a game shot at 200mm, f/2.8, when the players were all about 20 yards (60') away. When I get home this weekend I'll check to see if the EXIF contains the actual distance to subject.
Joke?

If they're uncropped, you could probably calculate an approx. subject distance based on the angle of view.

This site is an example:

http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/calc.htm

Go down to:

"Dimensional Field of View Calculator"

Example:
200mm, 1.6x crop, 50ft
FOV = 5'7" x 3'9"

I would guess your shot #2 is about 50-55ft from the subject (DOF = 2.45ft).

The shot I posted was probably around 35ft (DOF = 0.98ft)

[clarence]

Joke?

What part was a joke?

Sometimes I get "Subject Distance" in EXIF. I alternate between so many bodies that I haven't figured out which ones provide values and which ones don't. I think it's only with certain lenses too.

I checked a random file, T1i with 100-400L, but Subject Distance was blank. I'll see if I can find one with a value, but I'm on my laptop, so I don't have many pictures with me.

[geoff5093]

Glad you got a chuckle out of my example, but I thought that a 200mm 70-200mm lens would be more typical for the OP, instead of your 400/2.8

And 20 yards is a fairly typical range for following players in youth football, soccer, and lacrosse.

These examples are from a game shot at 200mm, f/2.8, when the players were all about 20 yards (60') away. When I get home this weekend I'll check to see if the EXIF contains the actual distance to subject.


These were all Av mode.
Those are excellent photos!

[AdamLewis]

Glad you got a chuckle out of my example, but I thought that a 200mm 70-200mm lens would be more typical for the OP, instead of your 400/2.8

And 20 yards is a fairly typical range for following players in youth football, soccer, and lacrosse.

These examples are from a game shot at 200mm, f/2.8, when the players were all about 20 yards (60') away. When I get home this weekend I'll check to see if the EXIF contains the actual distance to subject.

1.
[img]http://loco-photo.com/images/2009-10-24_5672.jpg[img]

2.
[img]http://loco-photo.com/images/2009-10-24_5873.jpg[img]

3.
[img]http://loco-photo.com/images/2009-10-24_5911.jpg[img]

4.
[img]http://loco-photo.com/images/2009-10-24_6917n.jpg[img]

These were all Av mode.

I didnt mean it insultingly. I was just saying that if youre shooting something 60 feet away with a 70-200, of course youre not going to have DOF issues (at least issues with the DOF being too small) because your subject is, relatively speaking, pretty far away. Thats all.

[AdamLewis]

What part was a joke?

Sometimes I get "Subject Distance" in EXIF. I alternate between so many bodies that I haven't figured out which ones provide values and which ones don't. I think it's only with certain lenses too.

I checked a random file, T1i with 100-400L, but Subject Distance was blank. I'll see if I can find one with a value, but I'm on my laptop, so I don't have many pictures with me.

I have seen that too in some cameras. I dont know which ones do it. I think there was a thread here from a guy who was shooting soccer with a 7D and it reported distance.

[BenJohnson]

Odd, I've never seen a camera fill in that info, and it seems like it would be a difficult thing for it to correctly determine. But it does seem plausible based on the location it moved the focus ring to. I would LOVE to look through my shots if this info were in place. I think it would be very interesting!

EDIT: I have not actually checked the files from my 7D to see if they contain this info. I'll have to take a look sometime.

[clarence]

I think the subject distance value used in conjunction with ETTL flash... it uses the focus point to know what your intended subject is so it'll know what to adjust flash exposure on.

I wonder if it's only calculated when focus assist from the flash is used (the infrared pattern projected on the subject)?

Plus I've noticed that different EXIF readers display different EXIF fields.

The value was 0 on most files, but was populated on the same file AFTER run through NR. Odd.

[AdamLewis]

Odd, I've never seen a camera fill in that info, and it seems like it would be a difficult thing for it to correctly determine. But it does seem plausible based on the location it moved the focus ring to. I would LOVE to look through my shots if this info were in place. I think it would be very interesting!

EDIT: I have not actually checked the files from my 7D to see if they contain this info. I'll have to take a look sometime.

Its not hard at all for a camera to fill out actually. AF systems come up with the number every time they find focus. Thats how phase detection works. It computes distance to subject by measuring how far out of phase two images are. It then turns the lens directly to that distance. I honestly dont know why more cameras dont have it.