Sell Epson 2200 Prints??

[BWiley]

The Epson 2200 printer is getting rave reviews, but I have a question that would really set it apart from other printers: Is anyone SELLING these prints to their customers?

In another words, are they every bit as good as what the top labs produce from your digital files? If so, do your sell the Epson 8x10s, 5x7s, etc. for the same price as those from your lab? Do you tell your client that you printed them on an inkjet printer instead of going to the lab?

Your thoughts are appreciated.
Bill

[John Spannenburg]

1. Yes I am selling these print to my customers.
2. Yes they are every bit as good as anything I've seen come out of the lab
3. I don't sell anything from the labs so same price is not an issue
4. Yes my clients know how the prints are produced- no need to be embarrassed/no secrets - the result are equal or superior to anything from a lab in my opinion and longevity is equal to the best than can be achieved with chemical prints


JS

[robertwgross]

Geez, I'm even selling prints made on my Epson 1270 (a few years older).

At a recent meeting, I showed some prints done at 11x14 to some photographers, and they asked the same question: What lab did the prints for me?

I printed them, mounted them, matted them, and framed them myself. They could not believe it.

---Bob Gross---

[beach512]

What will happen to those ink-jet prints in 5 years compared to the lab ?

No one knows yet.

[hmhm]

beach512 wrote:
What will happen to those ink-jet prints in 5 years compared to the lab ?

No one knows yet.



Well, unless you're using models of printer, paper, and ink that have been around for 5 years, you could argue that there's no _certain_ proof of what effect 5 years will have on a print.

However, inkjet longevity is approximated through "accelerated" testing, basically by exposing the print to extremely bright light, by measuring the rate at which the colors fade under extremely bright light compared to less bright light, and through extrapolation determining how many years of exposure to "normal" light will yield a given level of fade.

Epson's marketing claims 80 years of longevity with their inks and paper. Obviously they didn't determine this based on 80 years of testing, but on weeks or months of "accelerated" testing. The level of faith you choose to put into their marketing claims is up to you, of course.
-harry

[BWiley]

Okay you guys have just about sold me on the E 2200. The biggest plus of all is if pros are actually selling the prints to customers (and feeling good about it) instead of sending everything off.

Is there anything you don't like or you see as a drawback?

Thanks,
Bill

[John Spannenburg]

BWiley wrote:
Okay you guys have just about sold me on the E 2200. The biggest plus of all is if pros are actually selling the prints to customers (and feeling good about it) instead of sending everything off.

Is there anything you don't like or you see as a drawback?

Thanks,
Bill

Well the only problem is if you have a big job and need to do a lot of printing 'cause it's not the fastest printer in the world and not as fast as the Canon printers by all accounts. Some of our contract require 70 + prints and that takes a bit of time.

[robertwgross]

beach512 wrote:
What will happen to those ink-jet prints in 5 years compared to the lab ?

No one knows yet.



It depends on which printer (Epson 1270 or 2200) and which inks are used on which paper. The answer may vary from ten years to 60 years, depending on the variables.

---Bob Gross---

[jswayze]

What about gamut?

I considered buying this printer to replace my 890, but everything I've read says that the color gamut is not as broad as the 890's dye inks (using Epson branded inks).

How much of a limitation is the gamut issue relative to the longevity? I understand that longevity is a very important aspect when selling your prints, but it seems like the visual appeal would be very important also.

I guess it would take seeing the prints side-by-side to determine the difference, so if anyone has done that could you describe your observations?

Thanks,

Jeff

[BobbyC]

I was worried about the gamut based on 2000P prints that I saw, but the 2200 looks as good as my 1270 (which sometimes had too much of a gamut for portraits).

I can only speak for myself, IMO the gamut is not an issue. The Prem Luster looks awesome on this printer. I have also been using the Red River polar paper that is very close to the luster and they offer it in pre-cut print sizes. This makes the production issues a lot easier to deal with. I was soooo tired of cutting paper!

And yes, I do sell them and I sold my 1270 prints on colorlife as well. I am always upfront with my customers, and as of yet, everyone has elected to go with the inkjet prints.

Cheers,
Bobby

[picnic]

I would recommend subbing to the Epson 2000P (includes the 200/2100/2200) maillist at yahoogroups.com. There are lots of things you need to know to get the best from this printer--not all papers can be used (but a wide range for sure), it prints very nicely 'out of the box', but there are also paper profiles available. I also have a 1280 and I'm not one bit disappointed with my 2200 for color and I'm working with the black and white (VERY paper dependent and several techniques to get a truly neutral print).

Diane

[Sharokin]

Im using the Ilford gallery pearl paper (red box) on my 1280 and it is my favorite paper. I'm buying the 2200 this week and was wondering if anyone has experience with it and what is the archivability of this paper on the 2200?

[aphotodga]

I use the Ilford smooth pearl on my 2200 and its does a great job. My customers are very pleased.. So am I.

[john_houghton]

There's some interesting news about Ilford papers and special drivers to suit a variety of printers (including the 2200). See http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/pma/printer_drivers.html

John

[chilkateagle]

I have been printing my prints up to and including 11 x 14 inches on a pair of Epson 1200 printers for the last four years. I use Hahnemule archival matte paper and Lyson Photonic inks through a continuous inking system. When I began selling these prints exclusively in 2000 many of my customers asked me what did I do to improve the color and contrast of my prints. Prior to going completely digital in my photography I used Fine Print Labs in Colorado; they do gorgeous work. But, once I made the decision to go 100% digital I have never regretted it. I am now in the process of converting from my Epson 1200s to the 2200 as well. As for pricing, I kept my pricing the same and in some cases, i.e., smaller 5 x 7 prints, I actually lowered it. So far all my customers have raved about the quality and beauty of the prints, some of which are now in the 4th year without any noticable change or shift. I have been a wildlife photographer for 23 years in Alaska and I only wish I could have gone digital from the beginning.

[kraterz]

Well, drycreek photo says that tests showed that with some papers the so called "archival" Epson 2000 prints faded faster than 1270 prints. I have no reason to believe Epson's marketing verbiage about the longevity of their 2200 inkjet prints. OTOH I have some regular lab prints made on Fuji paper stuck to my fridge which have been around for donkeys years and I can't see any fading. Sitting side by side are my Epson prints which have faded in 3 months. I wouldn't buy inkjet prints even if the manufacturer "guaranteed" a 1000 year lifetime. It has to be put through the test of time. These so called accelerated aging tests are quite meaningless since there is very low correlation between the tests and real world results.

[lziering]

Two drawbacks to Epson 2200 prints that I've seen are:

1) the limited gamut and saturation of colors in the prints. re Bobbyc's comment about "too much gamut for portraints". I think Bobby is confusing gamut with saturation. You can't have too much gamut; you certainly can have too much saturation. That's why Fuji Velvia is rarely used for portaits--skin tones of caucasion people don't look right. A quality color print from a pro lab when shown side-by-side with an Epson print will look slightly more saturated and have a better color gamut. That said, very few people will look at a print from an Epson 2200 and notice anything wrong unless viewed next to a custom color print.

2) Glossy inkjet prints will appear to have a uniformly glossy surface when viewed from directly in front, but if you move to the side of them (so you see light reflected off the serface) the finish looks uneven. The parts where very little ink is applied (white areas) have a different finish than areas where ink was applied more heavily. I don't think this is a major issue but it is a difference. This is not an issue with matte paper but matte prints tend to look less saturated.

[DavidValdez]

Hello,

Just posting my input.

I do fine art printing on a Epson 1280. I upgraded my printer so I have 4 oz bottles pigment ink sitting on the side of my printer. The print will last up to 100 years (thats what they say). Before you buy your next printer go to inkjetmall.com. You will find tons of information on fine printing using a desktop printer. I think this will help you in your qwest. I am get ready to buy an other 1280 that will only print B&W. I love Epson printers and the 2200 is a nice model but I can do the same on the 1280 and I have more ink. ;-)

On prices of prints. Well, that depends on your market and client. Start low and see if you get a large demand. Later start to rising your prices slowly but keep your old customers happy. It keeps them happy and loyal. And give them a discount or free prints when they recommend new customers to your shop. That is a sale you did not have before.

I hope this helps. And if you want to know more on fineprinting email me. cddllc@hotmail.com

Just my input

David

[BobbyC]

I may be confused. The 2000P prints I've seen look less saturated and I assumed because they don't have as wide of a color gamut.

The 2200 prints look as good as my 1270 prints and I'm not exactly sure why.

I am sure of this though, I have a print from a pro lab that I sit side by side with my 2200 prints for customers to decide, I and all of my customers agree that the ink jet print is MUCH nicer than the lab print. What is the technical reason, I don't know, but they look a lot better.

I also have lab prints that have faded within a few years, I don't claim to have answers to anything, just going by what I see.

Cheers,
Bobby (the confused one)

[lziering]

Bobbyc,

The way to think of gamut is to picture the rainbow. Gamut describes just how much of that rainbow (how many colors and shades of colors) a printer is able to reproduce.

The way to think of saturation on the other hand is to think about laying down a very thin coat of one color of paint. As you laydown more paint the color of paint becomes more saturated. There's a relationship between gamut and saturation but they are not the same thing.

As for ink jet vs lab prints, my experience is that a Cibachrome looks better than than an ink jet print. But Cibachromes are expensive. Also, while B&W inkjet prints look great on matte paper, color looks more vibrant and saturated on semi-gloss or glossy paper.

Bottomline, my clients are quite happy with prints from my 2200.

[DavidValdez]

BobbyC wrote:
I may be confused. The 2000P prints I've seen look less saturated and I assumed because they don't have as wide of a color gamut.

The 2200 prints look as good as my 1270 prints and I'm not exactly sure why.

I am sure of this though, I have a print from a pro lab that I sit side by side with my 2200 prints for customers to decide, I and all of my customers agree that the ink jet print is MUCH nicer than the lab print. What is the technical reason, I don't know, but they look a lot better.

I also have lab prints that have faded within a few years, I don't claim to have answers to anything, just going by what I see.

Cheers,
Bobby (the confused one)

The diffrence between the two printers is 1280 uses a dye ink which does not last long in the sun and 2200 uses a pigment ink. The print heads are the same. You can find out more at inkjetmall.com for this info.

Cheers
David

[BobbyC]

Thanks, I did already know about the ink differences.