*question about people using your pictures*

[Lelasmama05]

So a while ago I took some pictures for a friend... and they are now using those pictures in a baby photo contest. Are they aloud to do that? Is it ok that I'm mad b/c it kinda feels like they're trying to get credit and money off my pictures. I never sold her the rights to the pictures...?

[ameerat42]

So a while ago I took some pictures for a friend... and they are now using those pictures in a baby photo contest. Are they aloud to do that? Is it ok that I'm mad b/c it kinda feels like they're trying to get credit and money off my pictures. I never sold her the rights to the pictures...?

Sheesh!! I'd be telling them off ALOUD! Why don't you enter that contest and gazump them!!! Post the same pics with "Copyright" and your name. Am...

[jacuff]

The copyright originated with you. They are only allowed what ever rights you have granted them. If you did not grant them that right, it is in your best interest to inform the people running the contest that the photo is copyrighted by you and thus should be disqualified from the contest. If you have a release on the photo and the contest doesn't have a rights grab, then by all means enter it yourself. Generally in matters like this, the friend doesn't know they are doing anything wrong. Usually the best course of action is to not involve the friend in it, but work with the people running the contest to get the image disqualified.

[gonzogolf]

Before you go too far with this, is it a baby photo contest or a cute baby contest? There is a subtle but important difference. If its the second and you took these for a friend, you risk your friendship by making an issue of it. If its a photo contest then you should probably speak with them about it and possibly inform the organizers of the contest.

[jacuff]

Are the contest rules online? That will help us determine what your next step should be.

[Tom Reichner]

Any contest I've ever heard of has the rule that all photos entered must have been taken by the entrant. Just let the person know that if they enter you will notify the people running the contest that they didn't take the pictures.

[baccaruda]

If their friendship is important to you, tell them you need to protect your copyright for EVERY image you take, and work with them to submit the photos you took of their baby with proper credit to you. Split any prize money.

[ameerat42]

Before you go too far with this, is it a baby photo contest or a cute baby contest? There is a subtle but important difference. If its the second and you took these for a friend, you risk your friendship by making an issue of it. If its a photo contest then you should probably speak with them about it and possibly inform the organizers of the contest.

Yes. Good point, G. But who really risked the friendship? Am.

[griptape]

Subscribing because this could get interesting. Did these friends PAY you for the pictures? If not, I, as an uninformed on copyright friend, would have no idea that you wanted to retain rights on pictures that you GAVE me. If they did pay you for the pictures, what did you sell them? Prints, a disk, email the pictures? You have to look at it from your friend's point of view as well.

And either way, the baby still looks the same. If there isn't a substantial prize involved, I'm not sure how much this is worth pursuing.

Are they aloud to do that? Is it ok that I'm mad b/c it kinda feels...
And no offense, but this really makes you sound like you're 15. "Allowed" rather than "aloud" and take the extra 4 keystrokes to spell out because, and it might be easier to take you as a professional.

[jacuff]

And either way, the baby still looks the same. If there isn't a substantial prize involved, I'm not sure how much this is worth pursuing.

The prize is almost immaterial. What is really important is the terms of the contest, especially regarding copyrights and licenses. Below is an example of a "rights grab" that most contests include.


By entering the Contest, all entrants grant an irrevocable perpetual, nonexclusive license to Authorized Parties, to reproduce, distribute, display, and create derivative works of the entries (along with a name credit), in any media now or hereafter known, including, but not limited to: display at a potential exhibition of winners; publication of a book featuring select entries in the Contest; publication in magazines or online highlighting entries or winners of the Contest. Entrants consent to the Sponsor doing or omitting to do any act that would otherwise infringe the entrant's "moral rights" in their entries.

[griptape]

The prize is almost immaterial. What is really important is the terms of the contest, especially regarding copyrights and licenses. Below is an example of a "rights grab" that most contests include.
And I understand and agree, but the most important question, which was stated earlier, was whether this is a best photo contest, or a cutest baby contest.

[John the Geek]

And I understand and agree, but the most important question, which was stated earlier, was whether this is a best photo contest, or a cutest baby contest.

Why is that important at all?

[jacuff]

Why is that important at all?

Exactly. Both best photo contests and cutest baby contests can equally have Terms and Conditions that include a rights grab which is bad for the OP.

[gonzogolf]

Why is that important at all?There is a difference. If its a photo contest the people who submitted a photo that doesn't belong to them and claim credit for it. If its a cute baby contest, parents are encouraged to submit a photo of their cute baby, regardless of the source. If that's the case the parents may be totally ignorant of the fact that they did anything improper, if they did anything improper.

[m33p33]

No one is that ignorant, especially if prize (read free) money is involved.

If any real amount of time was taken at all by the OP that produced results that her "friend" could not otherwise get on their own, the OP is getting hosed.

Put the shoe on the other foot. How would mom feel if the OP entered her precious Sweet Bumpkins mug in a photo contest without permission?

Tell your friend not to enter the photo, explain why. If she does not agree with you get a new friend.

[griptape]

There is a difference. If its a photo contest the people who submitted a photo that doesn't belong to them and claim credit for it. If its a cute baby contest, parents are encouraged to submit a photo of their cute baby, regardless of the source. If that's the case the parents may be totally ignorant of the fact that they did anything improper, if they did anything improper.

Exactly what I would have said. Thank you.


No one is that ignorant, especially if prize (read free) money is involved.

You would be surprised. "I bought the picture, I own it" is the mentality most people have. "Why wouldn't I own a picture that I bought?" You seriously have never heard this from someone when they took your picture to walmart and they called you to complain that walmart wouldn't print it? People are extremely ignorant about copyright law.

Put the shoe on the other foot. How would mom feel if the OP entered her precious Sweet Bumpkins mug in a photo contest without permission?

Okay, let's go ahead and do that. Sure, as photographers we know that isn't okay to do. Why? Because we need a model release to do that. Does aunt Suzie know that she needs a model release to use a picture she took that has a baby she knows in it? Of course not.

By entering the Contest, all entrants grant an irrevocable perpetual, nonexclusive license to Authorized Parties, to reproduce, distribute, display, and create derivative works of the entries (along with a name credit), in any media now or hereafter known, including, but not limited to: display at a potential exhibition of winners; publication of a book featuring select entries in the Contest; publication in magazines or online highlighting entries or winners of the Contest. Entrants consent to the Sponsor doing or omitting to do any act that would otherwise infringe the entrant's "moral rights" in their entries.
I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, but here's my impression of any parent that would read that after seeing "cute baby contest"... "WTF? Shrug."

[Lelasmama05]

Well these are the rules for the contest http://www.movin925.com/content.asp?crefresh=content&displayOption=&contentGUID={171F8892-D764-4CF4-9085-E840FDB11088}

They do say that they have to have the rights to the picture. The girl is more of an "acquaintance" then a friend perse. I sold her the pictures but I think she might have purchased the cd. The only thing I was wondering was if she still had to ask my permission to enter the picture in the contest?

[Lelasmama05]

and yes griptape... I'm sure you've never misspelled a word before. I wasn't aware that I was supposed to spell check or really care when just asking you guys a question...

[griptape]

and yes griptape... I'm sure you've never misspelled a word before. I wasn't aware that I was supposed to spell check or really care when just asking you guys a question...
You didn't misspell a word at all. You just used a word that didn't fit into your sentence in any way. I'm not the grammar police and I honestly don't nitpick things like that, I was merely making a suggestion that it helps to talk like an adult if you want to be taken seriously. My point was not to offend, and I sincerely apologize if you were offended by that.

By the way, your link doesn't work. This one should: http://www.movin925.com/content.asp?crefresh=content&displayOption=&contentGUID={171F8892-D764-4CF4-9085-E840FDB11088}

When you say she purchased a CD, what were the terms of release for the CD? The person may very well be under the impression that they own the picture since they bought the CD.

From the link you posted: § By submitting the photo you are stating that you are the owner of the submitted photo

If she isn't aware that buying a picture doesn't mean she doesn't own it, she probably isn't doing anything malicious.

[gonzogolf]

The contest appears to be a cute baby contest. Not a photo contest although the photo is the only evidence of cuteness to be judged. The rules do have a rights grab built in, but its probably just boilerplate so they can publish the winner in other formats. I guess I wonder why this sort of use would bother you?

[jacuff]

Well these are the rules for the contest http://www.movin925.com/content.asp?crefresh=content&displayOption=&contentGUID={171F8892-D764-4CF4-9085-E840FDB11088}

They do say that they have to have the rights to the picture. The girl is more of an "acquaintance" then a friend perse. I sold her the pictures but I think she might have purchased the cd. The only thing I was wondering was if she still had to ask my permission to enter the picture in the contest?

Bingo!
By participating in the contest, the winner or winners agree to have their name, voice, or likeness used in any advertising or broadcasting material relating to this contest without additional financial or other compensation, and, where legal, to sign a publicity release confirming such consent prior to acceptance of the prize

While they may not care about the advertising "exploitation", you as the photographer should. It may be just to publish the winner and used in next year's contest, but the thing is... the terms are conditions will be out of your hands.


We can't answer if she had permission, ONLY YOU can. As the copyright holder, you can grant them permission or not. (It would be in the customer's benefit to get the permission in writing.) The rules of the contest would also disqualify you from entering the baby photo. I'm guessing they don't have anything in writing where you gave them permission.

The best course of action is to use the Radio Stations Contact Us form (http://babyidol.movin925.com/contact) and notify them that the entry named _________ and/or entry number _____ is a copyrighted photo taken by you and submitted without your permission and should be disqualified or to send them a DMCA Take Down Notice.

[kwb]

"§ By submitting the photo you are stating that you are the owner of the submitted photo or that you have obtained a license for use of the photo, and state that the photo does not infringe on any third party's rights.
§ Once pictures are submitted to MOViN 92.5 they become property of KQMV"


This is why you should contact the radio station.

[Biffbradford]

Spelling and grammar doesn't count on the internet, does it? :mrgreen:

[griptape]

Spelling and grammar doesn't count on the internet, does it? :mrgreen:
Well I wouldn't hire a photographer that wants to take "pics" of my wedding, so I think it might.

[John the Geek]

it's not crazy to give someone a CD. I frequently give friends the full size (JPGs) and grant them unlimited rights to print them anyway they see fit. That's my choice.

The biggest issue here, and one I would take issue with, is your friend is giving away all rights to your photo without your permission. That's wrong no matter how you spell it. I would simply explain to her that this isn't a matter of her cute baby, it's about her giving away all rights to your photography. She probably isn't even aware that's what she's doing.

Just explain it. I'm sure she'll understand once she realizes what's really going on.

[canonnoob]

And no offense, but this really makes you sound like you're 15. "Allowed" rather than "aloud" and take the extra 4 keystrokes to spell out because, and it might be easier to take you as a professional.


Grip,

Grow up... you really went that far into analyzing someone's post? Its a forum.. This is not like the "I want to be a pro, how do I do that?" threads.

[griptape]

Grip,

Grow up... you really went that far into analyzing someone's post? Its a forum.. This is not like the "I want to be a pro, how do I do that?" threads.
I'm not one to correct spelling errors, but I thought it was relevant in this case because it helps clarify whether the other party KNOWS that what they're doing isn't allowed. If they're doing it in ignorance because they had a friend with a camera take some pictures of their child, it's easier to see how it could happen as opposed to them going to someone with an actual photography business where they had their rights explained to them. I'm not saying that makes it okay, I'm just saying if that's how the communication was during the transaction, I can see how the friend would consider it just an informal meeting rather than a business transaction. Again, I sincerely apologize if I've upset anyone by it.

[gonzogolf]

it's not crazy to give someone a CD. I frequently give friends the full size (JPGs) and grant them unlimited rights to print them anyway they see fit. That's my choice.

The biggest issue here, and one I would take issue with, is your friend is giving away all rights to your photo without your permission. That's wrong no matter how you spell it. I would simply explain to her that this isn't a matter of her cute baby, it's about her giving away all rights to your photography. She probably isn't even aware that's what she's doing.

Just explain it. I'm sure she'll understand once she realizes what's really going on.While I agree on principle that someone else shouldnt give away the rights to the OP's photo I think there are some practical considerations. Firstly, the rights grab is boilerplate the radio station uses to cover them when they publish a winner in another forum, its not like some scams where they are grabbing rights for more nefarious purposes.

Second, are the "rights" to this particular photo worth making a fuss over? Unless that baby grows up to be president its likely to be moot. The photographer sold the image to the customer, on CD so there wasnt much effort to prevent future prints. The damage to the reputation of the OP's reputation as a result of being "difficult" (even though you are in the right) may be an impediment to future work if you depend on word of mouth for marketing. This forum is full of absolutists when it comes to rights, and they have a point, but remember that being right can be a lonely place.

[Lelasmama05]

Yea I guess it's not really that big a deal. The baby's not going to win anyway so oh well....

And I guess it's a good thing that the only wedding I've done was a friends... they don't care if my spelling isn't perfect.

[WillMass]

Well I wouldn't hire a photographer that wants to take "pics" of my wedding, so I think it might.

But wut if I come take pitchers...Izat OK? :D

[SillyGuy]

Yea I guess it's not really that big a deal. The baby's not going to win anyway so oh well....

And I guess it's a good thing that the only wedding I've done was a friends... they don't care if my spelling isn't perfect.


:oops:

[LauraSB]

You called the baby ugly?