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fogboundturtle
16th of March 2010 (Tue), 01:14
Looking at some of the ads on craiglists, I don't see how I can commit to any project where the abuse is clearly on the side of the person who desire to obtain photo/video without paying any money.I know that for some it's the only way to gain experience but the abuse level that I have seen it ridiculous.

They are asking for professional gear with studio setup of course all for free. yeah right. The worst is that there is so many pro-wanna be hungry to get any job done that they will except anything to try to build a portfolio.

I firmly believe that any amateur work should be remunerated at an amateur rate. If you feel that you are ready to move on to semi-pro, then charge more on the next gig.

LBaldwin
16th of March 2010 (Tue), 01:34
There are so many photographers out there now w/ adverts on CL that I don't even sweat it anymore. There are also lots of ads that request images and they poster wants to pay as well.

The idiots that think gigging for free will equate into paid work are the ones that usually end up selling their gear. So just wait, they will have some good gear for sale for you to pickup for a song.

Bottom feeders usually stay right there on the bottom. They are not photographers, have little in actual creativity and actual technical skills. Working pros call the GWC's. Look for clients that have cash, the ones that want to hire you for your photo chops, the ones that recognize image creation ability./

sfaust
16th of March 2010 (Tue), 05:44
Unless you classify yourself the same as those photographers, they aren't your competition and you needn't worry about them. Its the same reason Longhorn Steakhouse does very well right across the street from a McDonalds, and BMW right across the street from a Kia dealer. Two totally different markets, and you get to decide which you wish to compete against!

griptape
16th of March 2010 (Tue), 07:49
Unless you classify yourself the same as those photographers, they aren't your competition and you needn't worry about them. Its the same reason Longhorn Steakhouse does very well right across the street from a McDonalds, and BMW right across the street from a Kia dealer. Two totally different markets, and you get to decide which you wish to compete against!
+1 to this...

And how is this any different than being on the model's side? You want them to perform and do a task that you can't, and many are unwilling/unable to do, and they spend time learning how to look good in front of a camera the same way you spend learning to be good behind a camera, and you aren't paying them any money?

If you want very high quality models that are higher class than what you can get a paying gig for, you pay the model. If you want models and don't want to pay them... guess what you get. Two people who know what they're doing ( a photographer and a model) but are still relatively inexperienced. It can be a good way for both parties to become more comfortable with just the work flow if nothing else.

If you don't want them because they're too demanding, then don't deal with them. Websites like model mayhem would not exist if there wasn't a market demand for them. If you're threatened by it, you need to improve your skills. If you're better than it, then you have no need to worry about the people doing it. I'm not sure what your complaint is.

sfaust
16th of March 2010 (Tue), 09:49
Thats a great point about the models, and good analogy. When I test, I'll use TFP models from Model Mayhen, OMP, etc. I'm not as concerned with how they model, as much as I am about testing new ideas, techniques, equipment, lighting, etc. It's the whole purpose of the test for me. They are secondary to my goals.

But when I need an experienced model for a clients shoot, 95% of the time we call the agencies and end up paying a few grand for good models. It's worth every penny in the end due to their experience and what they bring to the shoot. They know how to give me the expressions or moods I need, how to move, how to sell the product or clothing well, etc.

Experienced models are usually not found on CL or on the internet modeling sites. They usually demand reasonable pay for their time. They tend to be booked regularly for projects. They aren't too worried about CL models.

Its a real good analogy for CL photographers as well.

fogboundturtle
16th of March 2010 (Tue), 09:58
I am not talking about models what I am referring too is legitimate business that abuse student to get work done pro-bono in the name of gaining experiment/prints. I would certainly paid for a model if I am looking for a professional portfolio.

sfaust
16th of March 2010 (Tue), 10:31
The models was just an analogy to griptapes response, sorry if I veered off topic.

More to your point, as long as there are photographers willing to work for free there will be those ready to take advantage of them. The problem lies with photographers that are willing to be taken advantage of, not the companies using them to save a buck. Eliminate photographers willing to give away free work, and the requests on CL would dry up since its no longer a resource that bears any fruit. If there were student plumbers willing to do plumbing work for next to nothing, I'm sure lots of people would be on the phone trying to save a buck.