Advice for equipment.

[Bernardo]

Hi All,

I am new to the forum so it is probably better to introduce myself before i ask for advices.

I am Michele an italian guy and i am 30 years old. That's all from me... :)

I am very interested in motorsport photography and considering that i should sell my own business in the next few months i had the brilliant idea of trying to get into sport photography and try to make it as a career... I am currently doing a studio photography course but to be complitely honest is not exactly what i would like to do as a job.

Anyway ...

Lets start with the equipment, i curently have a canon 40D and i was looking into upgrade it. Any suggestion on what it would be the best choice ? I have been offered a canon 1ds mk2 would it be the best option for me ? For best option i mean quality / price or should i opt for a 1d mk3 o mk4 ? what would you guys suggest ?

Getting started i understand that the last camera on the market would be the "best" option but i am not into the position where i can spend 5k on camera and 3 months later realize that it is not my career ... so lets be realistic ... I just want to give it a shot and see what an hobby can be in the real world.

I understand that lens are also another main point from the equipment point of view... so if you want to give a go with few lens that i should get under the bag would be very appreciated.

I will ask later to the more expert how to get started and other question.

Thanks for all your replies and apologies if i posted on the wrong side of the forum ...

PS ... sorry about my english as well ...

[philwillmedia]

I'd probably spend a couple of years gaining some sports photography experience by shooting lower levels of motorsport and whatever other sport(s) you are wanting to shoot and learn the craft of sports photography before selling an existing business to embark on such a massive change to your life.

Equipment can't replace experience.

Also, for starters, if you need to ask what camera and lenses etc you need for sports photography, you are nowhere near ready.

[mtran]

I would use the 40D for a while and get a nice telephoto to start off. See how you enjoy it and go on from there.

[crn3371]

What lenses do you currently have? The 40D is more than capable for motorsports. I'm guessing you're going to need more, or better lenses before you need a body upgrade.

[Bernardo]

Hi all again.

Phil i do understand your councern and if i look at your signature i can clearly understand that you do it as a profession. Clearly between me and you there is a massive gap. however when i keep reading a bad day on a race track is better then day in the office. That is my all point. I have done a year doing photography. I am currently still doing it into a studio environment. The reason for asking about equipment is not because i do not know what to buy. The reason for asking is because sometimes you can get someone like you that its in the job and has already done what i want to do. Instead of spending thousands of pounds in equipment i can get something that for my need and experiece will do the job without going to the top end of the market. it is more of an advice based on experience then on magazine or specs of a cameras.

I took some good picture ( or at least the car is fully on focus and has a decent composition )of formula 1 cars at SPA (belgium) with a Canon d40 and a sigma 70-300 lens (99 pounds the cost of it) i am sure that a better camera and a better glass would have done the job better. And that was before my course where i have improved quite a lot.

I have broke the external hdd but i will look for some pic and maybe post them to get a very hard critic from you.. hahah... which it will be very appreciated.

In regards of equipment at the moment i have bought a sigma 135-400 mm lens which it was bought with the hope to go to other events but i never had the time to do so ...

That's all from me. I am also interested in find out how is the real job, because as every job it looks nice and good but when you are doing it things change a lot. Advice on how to get to the track ... Because again i believe that the position whitin the track can help take a better picture... I was always with a croud of people around me so it was a bit hard to get decent shots..

Thanks all again for your comments and help.

[philwillmedia]

Hey Bernardo,
No worries.
look forward to seeing some of your pics.

In the meantime, have a read of this thread.
It might give you a bit more of an insight.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=837431

and my post

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=9750967&postcount=16

[Bernardo]

Thanks for the link Phil .

It took me 3 days to get to read them but it was a good inside out of different point of view and way of getting uo at the top of the game. I must admit reading again my first post it may looks a it arrogant again with people that do it as a JOB ... I got the bit that it is work and not fun... hahah...

So i do apologise for it. I also understood that doing it as a profession it may takes at the very minimun 2 or 3 years being lucky and good at it to make a living out of it... Which again it was a very good piece of information which it will help me out to budget the all new project. Yep i didn't give up on it...

That said, i will go back to the initial post saying that the camera probaly is not the most important piece of equipment i need... So i will pass on the by the top of the range camera attitude and if i can ask for advice of a decent piece of glass that can be used in the future as well would be great... I am also going to ask to a friend of mine if i can follow him around to gain a bit of experience taking pic of him doing his race on a formula ford car... that can help to get started on the sport and help me understand few things from a professional point of view...

Thanks for your advice ... that is what i was after... It would be nice if you can help me deciding the type of lenses that i should go for...

PS... Well done for the rally career ... that's life... even tho i am a f1 supporter... Ferrari ...

[Mike Hoyer]

You want to go for the best quality lenses you can, over bodies really, if you have to make that choice. Really you need a few as well, as if you do start shooting for a living you will find that there is a lot more than just pictures of cars on track! A 70-200 2.8 is a good start, and something longer. 300 2.8, 400 2.8, 500 4 are all good choices but expensive. What's your budget.

I've gone from hobbyist to pro over the last few years, so any questions, just ask!

[Bernardo]

hi mike,

I am sure there is more then cars at the race track... GIRLS ... hahahah...

At the moment as a budget that i can spend on lens i have 1500 UK pounds. I think i am able to get just one of the one you have mentioned. I currently have a Sigma 135-400 APO 4.6 ...
I should be in brands hatch tomorrow because one of my friend is a driver so he got me an ticket for it... Don't know from where i can take pic cause he sent me a text ... Si can see how it works.. I bought it for it but never had a chance to use it.

Ideally i would like to buy something that when i will upgrade my camera can still be used... I would like a 300 2.8 or a 400 2.8 but they are well above my budget. So i may go for a nice 70-200 2.8L...

[Adphoto]

Hi Bernardo,,

The girls can be great but they're on race days rather than practice / qualifying days so you need to pick which one to go on... Race = busier, more expensive but you get the "live action." Practice days = cheaper and room to move around but no racing as such for the main events unless there's support series on as well.

For your budget, the 70-200 is a great lens and it is long enough for you the get some practice at panning if you can get close enough - you've got the equivalent of 112-320mm on the 40D body. Longer lenses are great for getting closer to the action obviously but require a bit more technique to master them.

If you're wanting lenses that won't become obsolete if you upgrade the body eventually, keep away from EF-S lenses as they're only for 1.6x crop bodies (APS-C) and won't work on full frame and 1.3x (APS-H) bodies, i.e. 5D Mk I & II and 1-series bodies.

Just my thoughts, I'll let the pros chip in with theirs :)

Andy

[Mike Hoyer]

I would sell your Sigma to be honest. I had one for a bit, hated it.

[Bernardo]

Those are the pic taken yesterday...

Not really happy with it, but any comments would be very appreciated. they were taking on manual mode and the auto focus. However they look a bit too soft for me... Not very sharp at all...

I think it is about the autofocus not being fast enought. It was also a cloudy day so not really possible to step down more the 5 on the aperture... no post production straight from the camenra...

anyway comments from you will be very appreciated...

[Mike Hoyer]

They look OK at that size. Are these with the Sigma? I never found mine very sharp, regardless of what I did. That could be an issue, as well as the weather - and practice!

[Bernardo]

Thanks Mike...

Those were taken with the sigma ... and i think that its one of the issue... I do understand that better camera or lenses dont take better picture but at least they help you in the process... Weather it is also another main problem but it can be overcome with some good equipment... if the lense wont go lower the 4 on aperture there is not much to do (yeah we can play with the shutter but ...)
If goes on 2.8 it can definetely help... Practice... well that is the only one that despite the lenses i can get ... hahahah... And i will ... I actually enjoyed the day out ... I do understand that when the weather is not nice is not great but i can cope with it...

What will you suggest as a first decent lense ... for my budget the options are ...

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM for 950 pounds

Canon EF 70-200mm f/ 4.0L USM for 550 pounds not really what i would like, i think the first one is better for the aperture...

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM for 1330 pounds but i need to justify the 400 pounds for the Image stabiliser... Will i really need it ? is it a part that i will use it or it is something that after a while you will just switch off and forget about it. ???

Canon EF 300mm f/4L IS USM for 999 pounds

Those are the cheapest price i have found in uk but if you know something better i am more then happy to save some pounds... Second hand is a good option from your point f view ? Getting them from US ?

[Mike Hoyer]

The 70-200 f4 is a good lens, but you may find yourself wishing you'd got the 2.8. We have an f4 that we use occasionally if one the 2.8s is being repaired (:)) and it does the job just fine.

The 300 f4 is also good - but for now maybe a bit limiting! I'd get a 70-200 for now, and a 1.4x teleconverter, for the brighter days.

IS, I don't think is essential. I only use it when shooting low light portraits with my 300 2.8. My 70-200 doesn't have it, and I don't miss it.

Have you considered looking at some used examples?

[Bernardo]

Thanks for the advice Mike.

In regards of the second hand i found something on ebay but if something goes wrong i am a bit worried... beside i will save about 150 pounds... Not to have a day of warranty for something that cost over 600 pounds it is a bit too risky for me... Any shops that sell second hand equipment and they give at least few months warrenty ? I can get them in USA because my brothers live there... so he can send them over without any problem (tax)... But again if they get broken during the trip will be very annoing ... I think i will start with the 70-200 2.8 IS and see what it will be the result of it with the picture... At least i can take off the excuse of the equipment. I also need to spend some money for my studio equipment which is a quite expensive too... I guess my father was right... Paly football... a pair of boots and its ok... Photography is an expensive hobby !!! hahaha

[Mike Hoyer]

I suppose that's the risk you've got to take. They are built not to go wrong though!

[Bernardo]

I have been offered a 24-70 L f2.8 for 250 pounds...

Do you guys think i will make any use of it ? Price seems to be quite good... It is a L lens so i should see what the quality on a L series will be...

I will buy it because I will need for the studio but in your experience is it something that it is worth to have on a race track ?

[Mike Hoyer]

If it's in good nick, for that price I'd have it!

[Bernardo]

hi guys, just a quick update ...

I have started a work experience with a photographer. As you probably know already i am not taking any picture but i am more involved of what happend to the picture after that is taken. How you sell it, how to get customers. I have started last monday so i need another week to fully understand the all job. It is not a sport photographer but an arhitecture photogrpaher. However i think it will be interesting for me having this kind of experience to see the real world.

In regards of the sport photography thanks to my business i got to know some of the employee of a company that organize sports events. From motor sports to Rugby . had a chat with them and they will be more then happy to provide me a press pass... That was a quick chat in my coffee shop it may change when i will do it seriously... But it is better then a no to start.

Overall i think i have made some improvements and thanks to you all i didn't jump straight into it like i would have normally done. I am also about to complete my qualification in studio photography in 2 months.

Only problem my camera the 40D decided not to follow me on my adventure giving me an Err 99 install the battery... Read something on POTN and looks like i will fix it and replace it because seem to be common with this type of camera.

What will you guy suggest ? I mean from a working point of view which is what i miss what would it be the best choice. ? I was offered a Canon 1Ds mk2 with a 24-70 2.8 L for £ 1500 (uk pounkds).

It is not as fast as the 1d in term of fps but it has more megapixel 16.7 ... I am not comparing it with the last 1d wich comes with almost 5000 pounds credit card transaction ... hahhaha...

What will you suggest for that price range as a professional camera with a full frame ? I think i can also get a brand new 7d or 5d for that mark .

PS my almost 2 years old d40 only has 7050 actuation ... Should i complain about it ?

[MMX]

i should sell my own business in the next few months i had the brilliant idea of trying to get into sport photography and try to make it as a career
Dude you´re sooo wrong...

Even the pro´s who shoot events such as MotoGP, Formula 1 or WRC usually have another business because the income from photography hardly covers the expenses. And you dream about selling everything you have, buying cameras and gear for at least €20,000 and making a career? I´m sorry that I have to say that but your idea is everything but brilliant...

PS: Don´t you thing that we all would do it if it was so easy?

[MMX]

What will you guy suggest ? I mean from a working point of view which is what i miss what would it be the best choice. ? I was offered a Canon 1Ds mk2 with a 24-70 2.8 L for £ 1500 (uk pounkds).


1Ds Mk. II with 24-70 is bs... or better said it´s a good offer, but definitely not suitable for sports.
First of all, when you shoot sports, you need telephoto lens that are quite expensive. This means that you should save as much money as you can for lens.
Next thing to consider is the crop - if you buy a full frame (1Ds) you will need even longer lens - instead of 400mm you will need 600mm which is much bigger, heavier and more expensive.
If you want a good body for sports and want to pay about £1500, buy a 7D or 1D Mk. III - but I would prefer the 7D.
Then you need lens, there are more choices, such as 70-200 L + TC, 100-400 L, 300 L f/4, 400 L f/5.6, depends what exactly you want to shoot and how much money you can invest. Also buy a monopod.

[Bernardo]

Dude you´re sooo wrong...

Even the pro´s who shoot events such as MotoGP, Formula 1 or WRC usually have another business because the income from photography hardly covers the expenses. And you dream about selling everything you have, buying cameras and gear for at least €20,000 and making a career? I´m sorry that I have to say that but your idea is everything but brilliant...

PS: Don´t you thing that we all would do it if it was so easy?

Interesting point, and i must admit is also what i have got from the photographer that i am working with. There is also another part of the photography that i want to do which is studio photogrpahy and i can rent out my studio. As part of my research it turn out that the area where i live has loads of student doing photography but not a studio at an affordable price for them to be hired. So that should give me another income.
Also i am already in contact with other professional camera man and they occasionaly hire a studio...

At moment it is just an idea, and i am working with it. It is normal and very usefull to have people like you questioning it, knocking it off because put me in the position where i also have to look things that i may have not even think about. I have also decided not to sell my business before i open the studio and have it up and running so on the beginning it can cover the loss of the photography. Instead if having my pocket to cover for it. Beside it also get me in touch with a more people specially from the studio point of view. The dream would be doing MotoGp or Formula 1 but i am miles away from it but i know from the beginning.

In regard of the equipment i am fully aware of the glass that i need to purchased, and unfortunately of the price of it as well. I am already upgrading the lens and the 70-200 IS + teleconverter should be here soon. I didn't plan to replace the camera but i may just fix mine, sell it and get a new one.

At the moment i will have to decide between the 1DS mk2 which is second hand, 7d new or a 5d new. they are alla about 1500 and 2500 Uk pounds... They come with some L series lenses as well which i can use them for my studio ... At some level it is fit for purpose.. .hahaha... that's the only way i can justify the price of it to my wife... hahha...

[barrelwell]

I would bite the guys hand off for that price with the 24-70, you could always sell the 24-70 to get what you want but it would be good for stationary vehicles or girls...lol.
How about hiring the equipment first instead of spending the hard earned cash, i am getting into motorsport photography also and this is the way i am going.

Good luck

[Bernardo]

I must say that i am considering to switch to Nikon.

It is all happen about 1 month ago. My D40 had an error 99. Accordingly to Canon that particular model is sold with at least 50.000 to 100.000 actuations. Mine had only 7300. As you can understand i was very frustrated. So i have decided to call Canon and write a letter of complain. Honestly i was looking for any refound or anything else. But when you spend quite a bit of money on equipment and they do not even care it is a bit annoying. To fix it cost me about 180 Uk pounds, definetely not a fortune but very disappointed on their customer service. My only concern is spend a fortune and then have to deal with them on a more expensive camera or other equipment.

Beside the initial disappointment i have now decided not to drop the case, and i have find out that in UK not sure about US, the shop that sell you the camera has a 6 years responsability over it regardless of the warranty. It is called The Sale of Good Act 1979.

that is what it says in brief.

This legislation also states that the seller, not the manufacturer, is legally obliged to sort out a problem if the goods do not meet these requirements.
The law also says I have six years from the date of purchase to claim damages for faulty goods.

So i will give it a go as well.

I have also finish my work experience with a photographer and as someone said a while ago it doesn't look easy to make money on picture. Reason for it is that a **** picture for free it is better that a good one that you have to pay for. Beside I reckon that it will take off the fun and the excitment of it. It is going to be a job overall...

So at the moment i am quite pleased with my decision to put everything on stand by and wait .

What do you guys think about switch from canon to nikon ?

[philwillmedia]

Switch to Nikon if you like, but I reckon if you went over to a Nikon forum, you'd probably find similar complaints from Nikonians with their gear.
What happens if you change and a similar thing happens? Change back to Canon or go across to Olympus (or one of the other brands)?
There will always be early failures no matter what the rating of a particular item is.
Canon have made something like 40 million digital bodies - naturally some of these will be faulty.
If you have a look at the number of good bodies to the number of faulty ones, the percentage would be very much in favour of the good bodies.
Even if just 2.5% of the 40 million are faulty that's still 1 million faulty bodies in the marketplace.
It's a fact of life - things do break and sometimes for no apparent reason.
As I said, switch to Nikon if that's what you want to do but don't expect miracles

What about the other gear you've invested in - lenses etc.
If you change to Nikon, you've got to change your lenses too - even more money down the drain

[Bernardo]

What about the other gear you've invested in - lenses etc.
If you change to Nikon, you've got to change your lenses too - even more money down the drain

Well that is the main problem. To be honest i can be bothered to the all process of find out which one are the good lenses for Nikon, the mount like AF or Af-s for Canon to the equivalent of a Nikon.

Not to mention that i will have to sell all my gear and buy a brand new one again and so on...

That said i must said that checking the same product with canon and nikon it turns out that they are much more cheaper... For instance the 70-200 2.8 IS II from canon is about 2800 pounds while the nikon is 1800... same for the professional cameras they are about 500 pounds cheaper....