5d mk2 - is this too noisy???

[dkatchalov]

hey guys

shot this with a 5dmk2, 580exII (bounced flash), 24-70 (f/3.5, 200, ISO 3200).

is this too noisy??? I know this is 3200 iso, but it seems extremely noise on this skin, red paint, black hair, etc...

is this normal? also is that banding i see in the bottom right of the image??

please let me know!!

p.s. this was only sharpened for screen when convertin RAW>JPG in lightroom. no other sharpening... only contrast bumped up in LR and the blacks were upped up as well.

thanks

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz153/dkatchalov/Bowling/IMG_9393.jpg

[SuzyView]

It would have been easier if you went f2.8 instead of smaller. But there is banding.

[dkatchalov]

banding?!?! argh!!!

is this a camera or lens problem???

[-MasterChief-]

did you pull exposure up in post? btw, exif reports 1/160 f/3.5 iso3200.

[dkatchalov]

I think I did pull the exposure up, yes... and yes, the exif was a bit out I couldnt remember exactly from the top of my head.

[-MasterChief-]

then that explains your noise. an underexposed pic yields more noise -- and the noise is just amplified when exposure is pulled up in post.

[dkatchalov]

ok, so it is better to shoot slightly over in high ISO conditions (i.e. overexpose) and pull the exposure down in post?

what about the banding - is that a result of the exposure being pulled up too??

[rw2]

Looks like a lot of noise.
That said it is still a usable shot if you run it thru a noise reduction software.

[-MasterChief-]

what about the banding - is that a result of the exposure being pulled up too??

yes, the banding is also a result of underexposure.

[dkatchalov]

thanks rob, that looks excellent...

my problem is how do I avoid this in the first place... I'd like shots that come out technically correct out of the camera without me having to resort to NR software to fix my mistakes...

so far I've got that I need to shoot overexposed and pull down in post... does this also help to reduce the banding??

thanks for all the responses!

[sapearl]

Well...... not really either since you'll blow out valuable pixels you may not be able to recover from the RAW file. And even THAT can exagerate some noise issues. Best way is to get it as close as possible, which I realize may be easier said than done.

I also notice her forehead was "hotter" than the lower portion of her face. I don't know what sort of bounce surfaces you had, but wall placement permitting, bouncing off close surfaces BEHIND you will also yield a larger, softer, more even reflective surface that will give a more even dispersal across her face.

ok, so it is better to shoot slightly over in high ISO conditions (i.e. overexpose) and pull the exposure down in post?

....

[-MasterChief-]

yes, and if youre shooting raw, you will have more flexibility without the highlights clipping. its better to overexpose than to underexpose in this case.

[dkatchalov]

cool, thanks for all the valuable comments guys

[tohara]

why do you need to shoot at high iso if you are using a flash....

[dkatchalov]

to get more ambient light and reduce the harshness of the flash???

is that right or not? if I shoot at lower isos with flash, wont I get that cold "flashed" look???

[sapearl]

No, no - not at all.

Set your camera on MANUAL. If it's a fairly dark room and you are using flash, set the ISO to 800. If there's a lot of ambient light an ISO of 400 will be quite fine. Use a shutter speed somewhere between 1/40 & 1/80 depending upon how weak/strong the ambient light is. Set the aperture for around f/5.6 - f/7.1 or thereabouts.

Leave the flash on AUTO and bounce off the ceiling or a wall behind you. You should get very pleasing results "dragging" the shutter in this fashion.

to get more ambient light and reduce the harshness of the flash???

is that right or not? if I shoot at lower isos with flash, wont I get that cold "flashed" look???

[-MasterChief-]

^^ ditto on what Stu said. :)

[sapearl]

From one Halo junkie to another..... thank you MasterChief :D.

^^ ditto on what Stu said. :)

[-MasterChief-]

;) ... cant wait for the movie to come out!

http://www.halothemovie.org/

[dkatchalov]

No, no - not at all.

Set your camera on MANUAL. If it's a fairly dark room and you are using flash, set the ISO to 800. If there's a lot of ambient light an ISO of 400 will be quite fine. Use a shutter speed somewhere between 1/40 & 1/80 depending upon how weak/strong the ambient light is. Set the aperture for around f/5.6 - f/7.1 or thereabouts.

Leave the flash on AUTO and bounce off the ceiling or a wall behind you. You should get very pleasing results "dragging" the shutter in this fashion.

Thanks for this & it is very interesting.

However - I needed to keep the shutter high in this case. The photos were in a bowling alley & I need to stop the action, hence trying to keep it above 1/250.

In this case, doesn't high shutter, lowish iso (800) and high aperture = harsh "flashed" photos??

thanks!

[sapearl]

Sorry - I'm confused..... thought we were discussing the portrait of the attractive young lady....:rolleyes:

Thanks for this & it is very interesting.

However - I needed to keep the shutter high in this case. The photos were in a bowling alley & I need to stop the action, hence trying to keep it above 1/250.

In this case, doesn't high shutter, lowish iso (800) and high aperture = harsh "flashed" photos??

thanks!

[tohara]

if you dont like the results the flash is giving you on ETTL then switch it to manual and turn the power down to about 1/8-1/16. I always bounce my flash and never put iso above 400

[dkatchalov]

Sorry - I'm confused..... thought we were discussing the portrait of the attractive young lady....

lol, firstly that's my wife, so thanks for the compliment :)

secondly, the shot was taken in a bowling alley so I would go from shooting bowlers one minute (i.e. the fast action I was referring to, requiring relatively high shutter speeds) to doing relatively still portrait/people type of shots (for which a slow shutter would be fine).

Given it would be a pain in the ass constantly switching from 1/250 shutter (and associated aperture and ISO settings) to 1/40 shutter - is there another way to get all of the following:

a) capture fast action and portrait-type shots in the same session without constantly fiddling with settings
b) avoid the harsh "flashed" look (i.e. still catch enough ambient light)
c) avoid the noise/banding in my OP.

thanks guys! (and no, "magic" is not an acceptable answer!!)

[sapearl]

PITA? You're kidding right?

There is no magic bullet here. It's called "you make the effort to match the proper settings and technique to the appropriate environment" - otherwise the results will be mediocre and unsatisfying.

To answer your specific points though:

a) If you don't want to make the effort to fine tune each shot and achieve the best work you can, just put it on "P" then.
b) See my suggestions above.
c) Use my recommended settings from above.

It's clear you're looking for the fastest, and simplest way out here. You can certainly do that with "P" or some similar variant. But until you take the time and make the effort to really examine what goes into producing better images then you'll just look like a P&S'er.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you seem to be just looking for shortcuts.

.....Given it would be a pain in the ass constantly switching from 1/250 shutter (and associated aperture and ISO settings) to 1/40 shutter - is there another way to get all of the following:

a) capture fast action and portrait-type shots in the same session without constantly fiddling with settings
b) avoid the harsh "flashed" look (i.e. still catch enough ambient light)
c) avoid the noise/banding in my OP.

thanks guys! (and no, "magic" is not an acceptable answer!!)

[-MasterChief-]

secondly, the shot was taken in a bowling alley so I would go from shooting bowlers one minute (i.e. the fast action I was referring to, requiring relatively high shutter speeds) to doing relatively still portrait/people type of shots (for which a slow shutter would be fine).

sorry to burst your bubble, but not ONE setting effectively solves all exposure challenges -- if it were, then who needs DSLRs? or any other program mode for that matter? :p

as with Stu, study your environment and make changes on the fly. its very easy and intuitive once you get used to it. it pretty much becomes second nature.

start off by pinning your aperture and ISO to one value -- just change the shutter speed. when you get used to that, then add changing the aperture value. and so on, and so on .... Good Luck! :D

[fashioneyes]

Simple ... the 5D2 has 3 custom modes right ...this is a perfect example of how and when to use them

Follow all the above very good advise given above for obtaining better flash portraits and assign to C1, C2 or C3.

Setup the camera for the action shots with higher ISO/shutter speed and assign to another custom mode ... that way you can get better settings for both styles of shot you are taking and quickly switch between the setups.

[-MasterChief-]

^^ GIVE THAT MAN SOME BROWNIE POINTS! :D

[sapearl]

Excellent suggestion Jepson - I had no idea.... of course, I don't own the MKII ;). But that is really the way to go then once you've experimented using the tips above, lock them in, and switch between the modes according to the lighting.

Simple ... the 5D2 has 3 custom modes right ...this is a perfect example of how and when to use them

Follow all the above very good advise given above for obtaining better flash portraits and assign to C1, C2 or C3......

[dsd17]

You could always get 2 bodies/lenses. have one setup for portraits, other setup for the stop motion shots. Make sure to get a double strap (http://www.blackrapid.com/product/camera-strap/double-strap/) so you look really cool!

[dkatchalov]

thanks guys, I wasnt looking for a shortcut, I just thought there was a technique I was missing!!

I've already thought of the C1-3 modes yesterday as the solution to this... thanks for confirming for me!!

once again, appreciate all the feedback & comments. thanks.