Sebring ~ 2010

[John Thawley]

Here are a few looks from Sebring:

http://www.johnthawley.com/picture/thaw_74293.jpg?pictureId=4827984
http://www.johnthawley.com/picture/thaw_77448.jpg?pictureId=4827927
http://www.johnthawley.com/picture/thaw_76975.jpg?pictureId=4827937
http://www.johnthawley.com/picture/thaw_76480.jpg?pictureId=4827944
http://www.johnthawley.com/picture/thaw_75807.jpg?pictureId=4827952
http://www.johnthawley.com/picture/thaw_74640.jpg?pictureId=4827989
http://www.johnthawley.com/picture/thaw_72970.jpg?pictureId=4827980
http://www.johnthawley.com/picture/thaw_72765.jpg?pictureId=4827974

[Bosscat]

Loving the set.

And you were in the pits at approx 4:05 PM on raceday, as I saw you on the tele shooting a pitstop.

[DC Fan]

More motorsports action images from a 5D Mk. II and a 40D, both camera bodies that have been extensively criticized in this forum as being unsuitable for action photography.

Any more demonstrations of this kind may give viewers the impression that the way in which equipment is used is more important than the choice of equipment or its price...

[S2K.OGRAPHY]

love them all thanks for sharing

[chrispons]

Fabulous work ,John,beautiful use of lighting and perspective. Thumbs up !:)

Pons

[zed]

Great set John. I really like 1,2 and 7.

Jeff

[TRhoads]

ah, some I have not seen yet, nice work JT, I still stare at #8...just like that one, great feeling to it.

[golden1245]

you're awesome!

[Spitfire_17]

digg'n that second picture!

[wtlwdwgn]

Thanks for sharing your fine images from Sebring. I'm green with envy. :mrgreen:

[PhotosGuy]

Nice work! Love the evening ones.

[keithleeSTUDIOS]

Very nice!!!

Keith

[Chisholm]

Fantastic set, paints an amazing picture, like a highlights programme in stills.......
Tom

[BobbyDigital]

Sweet shots. I like the one in the pits but you'd want to be getting the hell out the way quick.

[John Thawley]

Sweet shots. I like the one in the pits but you'd want to be getting the hell out the way quick.

True. But there's a pattern. They can't touch the car until they are done fueling. So, you start at the front and rotate around the car following the tire changers. By time they move to inside... against the wall, you should have moved to the back of the car.

But, you're right. You obviously don't want to get hit. And you certainly don't want to get in the way of the crew and spoil someone's race.

JT

[Jimil]

More motorsports action images from a 5D Mk. II and a 40D, both camera bodies that have been extensively criticized in this forum as being unsuitable for action photography.

Any more demonstrations of this kind may give viewers the impression that the way in which equipment is used is more important than the choice of equipment or its price...

Great shots! Love the variety of angles as well as light conditions! Can't wait till they come my way to Laguna Seca in May.

DC Fan,

Totally agree with you.

With regards to 5D MKII and 40D, I find that for most of my shots I'm only shooting 1 or 2 shots per vehicle as they pass by.

I know some guys need/want the higher FPS so they can shoot a burst and hope that 1 of them is a keeper. In some cases you do want the FPS to shoot a sequence of a crash or a pass, etc. so the 40D edges out the 5D there. However the 5D and 40D are more than fully capable of taking awesome motorsports shots.

Good stuff!

[John Thawley]

Great shots! Love the variety of angles as well as light conditions! Can't wait till they come my way to Laguna Seca in May.

DC Fan,

Totally agree with you.

With regards to 5D MKII and 40D, I find that for most of my shots I'm only shooting 1 or 2 shots per vehicle as they pass by.

I know some guys need/want the higher FPS so they can shoot a burst and hope that 1 of them is a keeper. In some cases you do want the FPS to shoot a sequence of a crash or a pass, etc. so the 40D edges out the 5D there. However the 5D and 40D are more than fully capable of taking awesome motorsports shots.

Good stuff!

Jimil:

While I appreciate the vote of confidence, I have to disagree with your assessment regarding the need for FPS.

Frankly, the 5D MK11 falls down in that area. It is truly a challenge using it for panning or even 3/4 head-on shots. It is especially difficult if you are shooting with another body that has a higher frame rate.

FPS is NOT just for capturing a sequence in a wreck... or pass or something of that nature. FPS is for getting the very best shot you can get. As a professional, you have an obligation to provide your clients with the very best images you're capable of capturing. You owe them that. You owe yourself that. And if you have the tools to accomplish that, you'd be foolish not to use them.

A car traveling through a corner at even the low speed of 60mph is covering 88 feet in 1 second. So, with a camera that burst 3 fps, that is roughly 30 feet per frame. That's a lot of ground and frankly, changes the entire composition. It changes the background. It changes the angle of the car. It might mean the mirrors are blocking the driver's face. It may make a difference in how other cars play into the frame. In short, it means a lot.

Even at 8 fps., that's still 10 feet per frame. And remember... we're talking about 60 miles per hour. Double it to 120mph... see what I mean.

If I can burst five or six frames of a car approaching or passing me, it's not about getting lucky and having one turn out. It's about having three or four frames to choose from. Even though they may all be good... perfectly acceptable images... one will be exceptional.

I've had sequences of images where the first one is nice, sharp.. but might benefit from a tighter crop. The next frame... a little tighter... nice. The next frame... wow... big, full in your face... but wait, it's a little too tight. I don't like this or I don't like that... I'll go with the one before it. So I basically view those five frames as "the shot." The winner is in the edit.

And by the way, that's why magazines and publications have PHOTO EDITORS. These are people who know and see the difference. Imagine the Sports Illustrated photo editor at the Super Bowl. He's got dozens of photographers coming in and dropping off memory cards throughout the game. Think about it... dozens of the BEST sports photographers in the country. You know everyone of those guys is turning in KILLER images. The photo editor has the eye. He KNOWS a winner when he sees it.

Is Sports Illustrated spraying an preying by having dozens of the best sports photographers in the country shooting one game? NO. They're putting themselves in a position to get THE SuperBowl game photo.

These decisions after the fact are no different than adjusting a crop in post processing. How many times do you feel an image might benefit from taking a little of the top and side of the frame? It's just the way it is.

Keep in mind, too... the better you become, the more critical you are of your work. You want more. You're tougher on yourself. And.. the increments of improvement are smaller, yet more meaningful.

Like anything else... we start out as a beginner and make huge strides toward improving. We enjoy that growth and keep getting better. Then we hit a plateau... and the next level of improvement becomes more difficult. The push the envelope and REALLY make the grade, it's tough... you have to bleed and push to make gains. And when those gains come... they seem small to some, but huge to you. You see the difference... you KNOW the difference. That your friends are impressed means nothing. YOU know the difference. YOU know what's good and what's GREAT.

So, as you get better... you see five frames that most would think are all great... and they may in fact be all good... but your eye will tell you one is great. One is better than all the rest.

So burst... burst with mean, with an objective and with a goal. I'm not saying to spray and prey... you still need to make the shot count, but use everything you've got to be the best you can be. You'd be a fool not to. And if ANYONE tells you it's luck, hand them the camera and tell em' to have at it.

But with all that said, today's cameras and at this level, are all pretty good. It's a matter of choosing the right tool for the job. After all, it's a poor workman that blames his tools. :)

Thanks again,

JT

[Jimil]

John,

I agree with everything you say and I appreciate the time and effort to reply to my post. Not to try and hijack your thread, but I was merely trying to enforce DC Fan's assessment and enlighten others that the 5D and 40D are capable motorsports cameras. In the hands of a skilled lensman, each camera can and will take good motorsports shots. Do I believe that the 40D edges out the 5D in the motorsports category? Yes indeed. Are there better tools for the trade? Absolutely. 1D MKII, MKIII, and MKIV's come to mind.

Like you mentioned it's all about choosing the right tool for the job. With emphasis on the job, and the job being the requirements on the deliverables. Do you have the best gear you can afford or obtain, to get what your customer wants.

Here's to a fantastic 2010 year of motorsports photography and shooting in general!

[Apexer]

John, great stuff as usual. I clicked on your 2008 year in review - it was inspirational! I'm jazzed about giving my new 7D a workout at PIR. Thanks for taking the time to share!

[John Thawley]

John,

I agree with everything you say and I appreciate the time and effort to reply to my post. Not to try and hijack your thread, but I was merely trying to enforce DC Fan's assessment and enlighten others that the 5D and 40D are capable motorsports cameras. In the hands of a skilled lensman, each camera can and will take good motorsports shots. Do I believe that the 40D edges out the 5D in the motorsports category? Yes indeed. Are there better tools for the trade? Absolutely. 1D MKII, MKIII, and MKIV's come to mind.

Like you mentioned it's all about choosing the right tool for the job. With emphasis on the job, and the job being the requirements on the deliverables. Do you have the best gear you can afford or obtain, to get what your customer wants.

Here's to a fantastic 2010 year of motorsports photography and shooting in general!

Again, I don't disagree with you... but I would question your use of the description "better."

To a point, "better" is subjective. Most the photographers I work with can all produce photographs of equal quality using either a 40D or 1D MKIV. Neither camera "takes" or "makes" the photo... the photographer does. And, I would argue, the lens will have far more impact on the image quality than the difference in the two bodies. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate any IQ difference.

When you step up (and triple your expense) to a 1D series, you are purchasing better build quality, materials and components. The auto-focus might be faster, the user feature list might be a bit more robust and of course, the burst rate is faster. But I assure you a 20x30 print from either camera would yield results that would leave you oblivious to which camera was used.

If the statement: Are there better tools for the trade? Absolutely. 1D MKII, MKIII, and MKIV's come to mind. were true, we'd all be shooting lights out over some of the greats like Louis Klemantaski, Nigel Snow etc. etc.

I only present this argument to try and get up and coming shooters to free themselves from the mental block that their camera or equipment takes a greater precedence over the fundamentals they should be learning and practicing. When photographers have the option of blaming their equipment, they tend to buy better equipment and still (after the new buzz has worn off) end up producing the same lackluster photos.... and given burst rates, even MORE of them. :)

I have always used my results as a benchmark for what I need. When I feel my equipment is GENUINELY at fault for my inability to get a shot, I will make a change. As proof, I will tell you that I am currently looking for new or factory refurbished 40D(s). I really like the camera, the images and comfort.

But, that's just me.

Thanks,

JT

[TRhoads]

JT, I always appreciate your insightful posts, I always learn a lot from them, and enjoy reading things from your point of view. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[sastein]

JT - Keep searching for the 40D's. I think Adorama had some factory refurbs recently. It's a much better camera than the 50D and maybe even the 7D. I kind of wished I would have kept mine now.

[MrChad]

I have always used my results as a benchmark for what I need. When I feel my equipment is GENUINELY at fault for my inability to get a shot, I will make a change. As proof, I will tell you that I am currently looking for new or factory refurbished 40D(s). I really like the camera, the images and comfort.

If you don't stop typing stuff like this the rest of us won't be able score 40Ds cheap on eBay from those upgrading to the 7D and 1DIV. :)

Great stuff John, cannot wait to see your results from the upcoming Long Beach venue too.

[belongus3]

Yea the first two sold me :) maybe il buy the 7D who knows :)

[Bill_P]

These are really cool shots!