Is this customary or acceptable?

[obnoxiousmom]

I received a request for wedding photography this morning via email. Its not something I normally do but have done a couple and with money being so tight and jobs scarce gave them a quote. The woman replied with the following response.

Hi Crystal

My fiance and I enjoyed viewing your gallery online and we have several questions. First are you available for our wedding on May 15 2010. Secondly, my fiance and I would like to meet you in person are you available on Friday April 2, 2010. Lastly we are ambivalent about paying everything upfront (we've heard horror stories, I know this does not apply to you). So, we would like to pay a deposit now and then 50% of remaining balance before the wedding and the ther 50% of the remaining balance upon receipt of the edited photos on CD.

Thanks
K


Is this normal of acceptable for a wedding photographer?

[zelseman]

I always get half up front and the rest the day before or the day of the ceremony. I would be okay with slthe situation you described as long as there was a contract in place.

[RDKirk]

Don't count on getting a payment after the wedding if they're already showing problems with funds (or even if they aren't). The baker and caterer won't.

[Subfightersandman]

I would just make sure u have them sign a contract, i don't see what wrong with it because they will not receive the final product until they have paid.

[Comerfjc]

For most folks I've talked to, it's customary to get that last 50% right before the wedding.

Either way, contract contract contract!

[obnoxiousmom]

I was thinking worst case scenario i only get half my pay but seriously, if they dont pay they dont have photos from their wedding. So yes it would be pretty crappy to loose half my money but would they really do that and loose their images?

I would hope they are financially stable lol. After giving her the qoute I googled her name and pulled up their engagement announcement. She is a doctor and he is a Dean of a major university. But they are from Washington DC and are getting married here because her mom lives here. Kind of made me nervous when I saw who they were.

[obnoxiousmom]

For most folks I've talked to, it's customary to get that last 50% right before the wedding.

Either way, contract contract contract!

This brings up another subject. I have only ever done one photo release and do not have ANY contracts. I dont even know where to begin with writing one up. Any ideas?

[Jim G]

Our contracts state that accounts must be paid in full at least 2 weeks prior to the wedding. No money, no photography. Don't even think about getting involved until you have a contract that you're happy with.

[obnoxiousmom]

I have until next friday to get one written up. Im googling it now

[Kaljam]

I videotaped weddings in the early 90's and I would get 50% up front and the balance AFTER the wedding when I delivered the finished product. Having been newly married at the time, I understood that there is so much going on, I did not want to add to the list of things to do. I had no problem waiting because I was holding the finished product. Also on my side was that the bride and groom usually walk away from a wedding with a good amount of cash (gifts), so paying me was easier at that time as opposed to when they were paying for the hall, limo, photographer, cake, flowers, tux rental, etc etc...........

[dwarfcow]

i think most people will tell you they get paid 100% up front (we do as well) but its not completely unheard of to get some paid at time of delivery.

however, we don't offer digital negatives for purchase ever, so there really isn't a tangible final product aside from what they want to order. So we don't want to get stuck investing the week of time in editing the pictures afterwards, just to have the bride or groom decide they don't want to pay anymore, worse yet, have the brides mother/father (who tents to foot the bill) decide they don't like their new in-laws and jump ship on paying period.

I like the motivation of having been paid in full and being the one indebted for services, makes the work go faster :confused:

[cdifoto]

I like the motivation of having been paid in full and being the one indebted for services, makes the work go faster :confused:

For some people it's the opposite. :lol: :rolleyes:

[dwarfcow]

For some people it's the opposite. :lol: :rolleyes:

its more of a moral motivator, a little stress is good, its like a kick in the pants.:lol:

[nicksan]

I would make sure to get the money before handing over the product itself. The rest of the percentages is up to you.

[obnoxiousmom]

They will not get the product until the balance is paid. That will be one thing for sure. Thanks for all your input. Ive only ever shot friends weddings or weddings where I was hired as a last minute photographer with like a days notice. This actually stresses me more because I have more time to think of all the what ifs and its driving me nuts already! I am working on finding a suitable contract right now and figuring out which additional equipment I want to buy or rent etc....

[turbo212003]

50% as a retainer + signed contract.
Other half 4 weeks BEFORE the wedding.

[RDKirk]

I was thinking worst case scenario i only get half my pay but seriously, if they dont pay they dont have photos from their wedding. So yes it would be pretty crappy to loose half my money but would they really do that and loose their images?

It happens quite often. The couple just never gets around to making the final order. That's why most wedding photographers get all their money up front.

[TTk]

I always get half up front and the rest the day before or the day of the ceremony. I would be okay with slthe situation you described as long as there was a contract in place.



As above this is my way of working as well ( had two many I have not got your money sorry) and I only take cash if less than 7 days to the wedding day.;)

[Pyromaniac]

Everything I shoot, with very few exceptions, is 50% up front and 50% the day of the shoot. The exceptions are with some of the commercial stuff I will take the last 50% when the final images are delivered instead of before the shoot.

[Gnhntn]

I am not a professional, but figured I would answer, for what it is worth. I just looked at your site (very nice photos) and looked at your pricing.

It clearly states "There is a $250 non refundable deposit required to secure your date and the remaining balance must be paid two weeks prior to your wedding day. The deposit is non refundable." so this is what I would tell them, and include in any contract.

Your price for a wedding is more then fair. They should be willing to go along with your normal procedures for payment, and not expect you to change them.

[jsphotos]

I get 50% before the wedding and the other 50% day before the day of the wedding and for sure get then contract signed the day of the deposit.

[CosmoKid]

She is a Doctor and he is a Dean of students (also a Doctor I assume) and they are tight on money? Jeez...

Get your money up front. This is what happens...

1- You show up and shoot all day
2- You send them a watermarked link for proof
3- a- they "hate" the product and dont want to finish paying you
b- they aren't very happy and negotiate you down
4- You accept less money because you want to get paid.

Tell her you are ambivalent about not getting paid up front. You've heard horror stories (not to say that applies to them)

[cdifoto]

She is a Doctor and he is a Dean of students (also a Doctor I assume) and they are tight on money? Jeez...

Get your money up front. This is what happens...

1- You show up and shoot all day
2- You send them a watermarked link for proof
3- a- they "hate" the product and dont want to finish paying you
b- they aren't very happy and negotiate you down
4- You accept less money because you want to get paid.

Tell her you are ambivalent about not getting paid up front. You've heard horror stories (not to say that applies to them)
I think you mean "adamant"

[RDKirk]

I think you mean "adamant"

I think he did mean "ambivalent," but should mean "adamant."

[PhotosGuy]

They will not get the product until the balance is paid. That will be one thing for sure. Thanks for all your input. Ive only ever shot friends weddings or weddings where I was hired as a last minute photographer with like a days notice. This actually stresses me more because I have more time to think of all the what ifs and its driving me nuts already! I am working on finding a suitable contract right now and figuring out which additional equipment I want to buy or rent etc.... You're in SC & they're in DC. Give some thought as to how you're going to handle that. If they get proofs, you may never hear from them again.

[CosmoKid]

read the email the OP received from the doctor. I was just poking fun at the email and how the doctor worded it.

[focus.pocus]

congrats on the gig Crystal... get a contract signed no matter who they are... ttyl

[obnoxiousmom]

You're in SC & they're in DC. Give some thought as to how you're going to handle that. If they get proofs, you may never hear from them again.


This HAS crossed my mind and will be discussed when we meet in person. I may request that either her mother pick up the images in person since she does live here or something along those lines

[Amamba]

As a customer, I am very hesitant to pay 100% upfront unless (1) it's a large and established business, or (2) I have a long history with this person / establishment, or at least (3) I am paying with a credit card so that I can file a claim if I get screwed. I fully understand your concern, but they have a concern, too. I've been through probably 50 weddings (family, friends etc.) and whenever there was a screw up it was almost exclusively the photog, the video guy or the band - almost never the venue or the caterer. There's a certain problem with some people who see the event as "the gig" vs a workday.

Perhaps the best thing would be to sit down with them and discuss your concerns ?

[RDKirk]

As a customer, I am very hesitant to pay 100% upfront unless (1) it's a large and established business, or (2) I have a long history with this person / establishment, or at least (3) I am paying with a credit card so that I can file a claim if I get screwed. I fully understand your concern, but they have a concern, too. I've been through probably 50 weddings (family, friends etc.) and whenever there was a screw up it was almost exclusively the photog, the video guy or the band - almost never the venue or the caterer. There's a certain problem with some people who see the event as "the gig" vs a workday.

I would suspect that's because the photographer, the video guy, or the band are more likely not to have been properly licensed, taxpaying businesses. People too often tend to "cheap out" on those three items and choose strictly by price.

[jhcanon]

don't care who they are - 30% booking fee up front to reserve the date with the remainder paid two weeks before the event. If all monies not received prior to the Wedding date then no photography. All covered by contract which they sign when the make the booking and hand over the booking fee.
It's a business and not a "We'll pay you if we like the end product". By that time the time has been spent and some amount of editing done.

[Rob Wilkinson]

I take a deposit to save the day upon booking, then if the client chooses they can do half and half, with the remaining half due by the day of the wedding. No proofs until they are paid in full.

[sam walker]

I never liked to work in the world of no purchase orders. They are as good as contracts I could handle 30-60 days from a large conpany like Sherwin Williams that I was pretty sure was going to still be around in two months. Individuals are way too unpredictable. For a short time I produced political yard signs. Lots of promises there. I made it real easy, COD only. What if the guy loses. What would a wedding photographer do if the bride or groom got cold feet? Not unheard of. What are the post event costs? Are you making the prints for the album or handing off a disc. If prints are included how do you handle the lab,paper and frame fees No one wants to anger a good supplier with Oh I didn't get paid for my time so you suffer too. Collection work is hard and cuts into your day. Cover yourself.
Sam

[Tarzanman]

I arrange to meet the couple out in the desert*. Briefcase in hand. No cops. I flash the high beams on my car and then we both step outside. I ask them to show me the money. Then I throw a binder filled with thumbnail contact sheets over and tell them to look it over.

While they are looking at the thumbnails I scan the area for signs of trouble. If the couple likes the photos, I give the briefcase with the image to my day-laboring Botswanan bouncer, Kilay-lay. They make the trade at the same time while my camera is holstered at my hip incase things get sour.

*If I am in an area where there isn't a desert, then a deserted parking garage works just as well

[Amamba]

I would suspect that's because the photographer, the video guy, or the band are more likely not to have been properly licensed, taxpaying businesses. People too often tend to "cheap out" on those three items and choose strictly by price.

Most won't even think of checking that info, regardless of the money asked. I'm not even sure the pro wedding photogs are supposed to have a license, in most states.

I think a lot of it has to do with attitude. Don't jump at me ;) but I've met far, far more primadonna professional "artists" than caterers. At our own wedding, the band leader demanded (!) a raise 3 weeks prior to the event, because in the months since we've hired them they took off in popularity. Needless to say I told him to f* off. Luckily enough I was able to find a (better) replacement in a very short time. When people think of themselves as "artists" sought after for their superior talent, things happen.

[RDKirk]

Most won't even think of checking that info, regardless of the money asked. I'm not even sure the pro wedding photogs are supposed to have a license, in most states.

Most states have a sales tax--they certainly expect anyone collecting revenue to be collecting sales taxes for them under a business license. Most localities require a business license. The number of locations that require no license at either level is vanishingly small.

Anyone who is really being careful about her money will check the licenses of any contractor she hires and avoid the "jacklegs."

When people think of themselves as "artists" sought after for their superior talent, things happen.

That's why you want to look for those who are actually in business (i.e., licensed), not just art.

[Amamba]

Most states have a sales tax--they certainly expect anyone collecting revenue to be collecting sales taxes for them under a business license. Most localities require a business license. The number of locations that require no license at either level is vanishingly small.

Anyone who is really being careful about her money will check the licenses of any contractor she hires and avoid the "jacklegs."



That's why you want to look for those who are actually in business (i.e., licensed), not just art.

Ain't that true. bw!

[DRNPhoto]

Curious on what was the agreement with the potential customer? :)

[FELINEDEBOURGES]

I guess I understand their side, you have product and they want to wait to pay in full until they receive it. However I'd be afraid of a bridezilla situation where they want to have you make endless changes and edits before they will pay you. I'm not sure how you could word that in your contract so that you wouldn't have to get stuck doing more and more revision edits after you've already done what you consider your final edit. Anyone else have any ideas?

[RDKirk]

I guess I understand their side, you have product and they want to wait to pay in full until they receive it.

Everyone else gets his money up front.

[obnoxiousmom]

Payments were broken into three almost equal installments. They pay 1/3 at contract signing, 1/3 the day of the wedding and the final 1/3 when I deliver the photos

[FELINEDEBOURGES]

Everyone else gets his money up front.

Is that really true though? I've never been through a wedding before personally. I assume as I've been reading on here that all vendors get paid the day of services. So say catering gets paid the day of. They COULD be high and dry if they bring all the food and then they get stiffed. I think I've seen at my sister's wedding where the DJ was paid after the reception because the length of time he was going to be needed was played by ear.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong from either side, I'm just saying I can see the point of the brde and groom. I would not pay for a dress in a store to wait 4 weeks for it to come in. I would expect them to order it and then I'd pay when it arrived. Yet you eat in a restaurant, you order receive, and consume the product all before paying, and they could get stiffed - but you would not dream of being able to take groceries from the market without paying first.

While some things have clear standards of when payment is supposed to happen, others are not so set in stone. Just like we found out how it's actually happening with this photographer and her client.

[Fernando]

Is that really true though? I've never been through a wedding before personally. I assume as I've been reading on here that all vendors get paid the day of services. So say catering gets paid the day of. They COULD be high and dry if they bring all the food and then they get stiffed. I think I've seen at my sister's wedding where the DJ was paid after the reception because the length of time he was going to be needed was played by ear.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong from either side, I'm just saying I can see the point of the brde and groom. I would not pay for a dress in a store to wait 4 weeks for it to come in. I would expect them to order it and then I'd pay when it arrived. Yet you eat in a restaurant, you order receive, and consume the product all before paying, and they could get stiffed - but you would not dream of being able to take groceries from the market without paying first.

While some things have clear standards of when payment is supposed to happen, others are not so set in stone. Just like we found out how it's actually happening with this photographer and her client.

It is true. Got married in November. Deposits at the time of contracting and remainder anywhere from 14 to 30 days before the event. The only thing we paid day of was the church, the church music and the tips. This is pretty standard.

You can't compare eating in a restaurant and putting on a wedding. There's a just a little more involved in a wedding than there is in sitting down at the local Sizzler.

-F

[FELINEDEBOURGES]

It is true. Got married in November. Deposits at the time of contracting and remainder anywhere from 14 to 30 days before the event. The only thing we paid day of was the church, the church music and the tips. This is pretty standard.

You can't compare eating in a restaurant and putting on a wedding. There's a just a little more involved in a wedding than there is in sitting down at the local Sizzler.

-F

Okie dokes. Good to know :)

[cdifoto]

I just take 50 down, 50 on the day of. This way they know I'll show up and can feel at ease about me not running off. They know I won't even unload my car until I was paid (unless of course I forgot) so I don't worry about getting stiffed either.

I don't know how some wedding 'togs can get away with being paid in full 4+ weeks before the event rolls around. I don't do anything for a wedding until the week it's set to occur. Taking all the money three weeks before I'm even thinking about their wedding sort of scares me actually.

EDIT: I actually did get paid in full once, at the time of signing. Nice to have the cash at the time but when the wedding rolled around about half a year later, I didn't have much of that cash left. I blew most of it on goodies. Thank goodness they didn't order an album. :eek:

[dwarfcow]

EDIT: I actually did get paid in full once, at the time of signing. Nice to have the cash at the time but when the wedding rolled around about half a year later, I didn't have much of that cash left. I blew most of it on goodies. Thank goodness they didn't order an album. :eek:

what would your accountant say?

we typically require being PIF 1-2weeks in advance (and 3 weeks if we're going out of state) but client's money cannot be TOUCHED until actual expenses arise from their wedding (travel, gas,rental fees, event insurance etc) it took a while to get to this point where we can budget accordingly... it also takes restraint to have $16,000 in a checking account knowing 3k is for June 2010, 3300 is for next January, and $5,000 is for a destination wedding in Prague etc. but you have ALOT less stress knowing you won't have to break out the credit cards to cover a trip you were paid for much earlier.

(while we only require 1-3 weeks in advance, i've found the more expensive the event, the further in advance clients tend to pay)

[cdifoto]

what would your accountant say?

we typically require being PIF 1-2weeks in advance (and 3 weeks if we're going out of state) but client's money cannot be TOUCHED until actual expenses arise from their wedding (travel, gas,rental fees, event insurance etc) it took a while to get to this point where we can budget accordingly... it also takes restraint to have $16,000 in a checking account knowing 3k is for June 2010, 3300 is for next January, and $5,000 is for a destination wedding in Prague etc. but you have ALOT less stress knowing you won't have to break out the credit cards to cover a trip you were paid for much earlier.

(while we only require 1-3 weeks in advance, i've found the more expensive the event, the further in advance clients tend to pay)

I don't use an accountant. Don't need one. I can add and subtract. I even do my own taxes. :eek:

That line wasn't really serious. I bought a second 1D II but that was it. I used it on their engagements a few days after that, and I did a better job on their wedding than any other because I had two absolutely identical cameras for once. I'm actually good at having enough cash to fulfill my obligations. I don't even have a credit card. :)

[obnoxiousmom]

I got their deposit and made a purchase towards wedding equipment. I will order the 70-200L here in a week or so for rental and buy some umbrellas. So its all going towards investment as I get it and if they dont pay the amount in the end, I still got some new equipment out of it