Another photographer trashing me!

[LauraSB]

A photographer I met last January at a show for local bands has been trashing me! I used to shoot at a club in my area and I was getting a lot of work and some of it was repeat work. I would get paid by the club and not the bands. The bands would purchase work from me. One night another photographer showed up at the club and he was immediately told by the club bouncer they had a house photographer and to tread lightly as I had a great relationship with the owner(he's married to a great friend of mine). We start chit chatting and I introduce him to some of the managers of a few of the bands. I did this for 2 reasons. #1 I'm a nice gal and #2 I knew I was going to be leaving the area pretty soon and thought maybe he'd like to take my spot or something. We continued to shoot for another few months together and then I left.

I moved back a few weeks ago and started to get caught up with the scene again only to find out that when I left the other photographer had started dissing on me calling me all kinds of names, saying my work sucked and even put up on his website a link to my site and trashing me! It was only for a few weeks but still! I'm getting emails forwarded to me right now from a few months ago when I left my city that this other photographer was sending to some of the bands I used to shoot. I know guys don't get caught up in drama(at least some guys) so I can see why I was never told this before but dang I've only been gone for 7 months. This other photographer still works the club. I've no desire to go back to shooting local bands but really what was the point of trashing me? I thought we had a pretty good relationship as we'd shoot every Friday and Saturday night together at the club. There never seemed any animosity.

Why in the Business section? Because money was made on my end. I don't live in a small city BUT I do have it on my website the city I live in. I just hope this dude doesn't start trashing me again now that I have moved back and he could view me as competition. I'm still debating if I should say anything as it happened back in Aug and September.

Has this ever happened to anyone?

[SnapLocally.com]

I've had worse happen to me. I was really pissed off when it happened, and it became a very powerful motivator to make my work 10x better then it had been.

[spikeystitch]

Prove him wrong?

Oh, and WALL O TEXT

[LauraSB]

Wall O Text?

[spikeystitch]

Off Topic: it's a wall of text. It's hard to read as there is no paragraphs.

[MJPhotos24]

Had it happen all the time with another baseball photographer, I blew it off for awhile and let him run his mouth. He'd steal my camera from my bag to check what settings I would use, he'd dump sunflower seeds in my bag, try to get in my way while shooting and talk s**t to players and coaches. Problem he had was these guys knew me better than him and thought he was a complete a-h. Last straw was I did a teams photos on Sunday at their home stadium, they came into my usual stadium a week later and he tried it with them. Two guys come over and say "who's this guy, we know you and not him but he's talking **** about you". That was it, he was kicked out for good.

Turns out players, teams, agents (from word of players) kept complaining to the league and the publication he claimed to be from, when he in fact hadn't been published in over a year. The publication sent out an email saying he's been warned about breaking rules numerous times, ignored them telling him to stop and said he's no longer with the pub. He was eventually banned for good from all stadiums (yet one still lets him in to shoot for them). Note he was banned from 3 stadiums 3 times each before this so why that one team still lets him is beyond me.

Let's see - another photographer I never met in my life called an agency I shoot for every so often and told them how I was in trouble with the league, when in fact I was working with the league very closely at the time. She just made it up to make herself look good I guess? Not sure exactly what the point was but apparently this person I never met has talked a lot of crap and I never met her. She was at a game this spring I was at and read my pass, gave an evil look as I walked away not acknowledging her.

Hm, sure there's plenty of others. My old football coach used to tell us be proud to be called an a-h. People get upset with you for no reason other than doing what you have to do and doing it right, they get jealous of those that are doing better than them so they always call that person an a-h. That was a good thing, means you're doing good! He'd of course also ad on the part about unless you were really just a complete a-h...that was different!

[Mhappy]

Sounds like jealousy to me! That or, some people are just mean natured! Ever seen the movie 'Mean Girls'... same thing!

[Viva-photography]

Ever seen the movie 'Mean Girls'... same thing!\

Hahaha. I was thinking about that...

[SnapLocally.com]

I've told my story before, but it's worth repeating.

When I first started shooting MMA and boxing I was very new to photography. I was shooting with an XTi and used Tamron zoom. Another photographer entered the fold- he was already experienced with boxing photography, and he was taking great shots. Much better than my own. He had more experience, with a 5D and 24-70L to go along with those skills. Face to face he was a nice guy, but for whatever reason majorly competitive in a bad way.

Aside from starting stupid and untrue rumors on how I was trying to keep him from getting access to events, he was actively going after my customers. First, when I was actively using that cyber-ghetto known as Myspace, he'd post these brilliant shots he'd taken on MY user page, and make some snide remark along with them. Then he was going through my "friends list" and looking up the fighters I had been in contact with, offering them half of what I was charging. I'll say this- I really didn't appreciate the way he was competing at the time, but on the other side of things it created a necessity for me to hone my craft and become much better in a very short amount of time, or I'd sink, becoming a distant second best in a two man race, becoming irrelevant in the process.

Like I said, I wasn't appreciative at the time, and I let my temper get the best of me- I blew up at him in front of a promoter, in a verbal but harsh fashion, airing my grievances in what could be construed as less than professional manner, and I didn't shoot boxing for almost two years after that exchange. Yep, another set back.

In my boxing absence I shot what MMA and kickboxing events were available to me. Most of the events I was covering didn't have very good lighting, and I was dying to shoot in better venues. However, it was in these virtual lighting dungeons that my potential really started becoming realized. Once I made it back to covering box events in the "big" venues my skills had become significantly improved, thanks to how I learned to adapt in those trying environments during my down time.

My story is still unfolding as I still haven't "made it" in the professional sense, but I'm far closer to my goals than imagined just a few short years ago, in part thanks to the competition I had to endure. I'm also no longer in second place.

[Gedanken]

It sucks that there are such lowlifes out there, but the good thing is that most of the time, pulling that kind of crap only backfires on them.

[verb1]

SnapLocally - Nothing a rear naked choke wouldn't cure. :)

[Karl Johnston]

That sucks. Just ignore it. I found that it gets you nowhere quick - respect goes a long way...treat him professionally, as you would anyone else, dont confront or feel the need to. Dont fret; a good manager or a good client will see through him.

[Fenster]

Paragraphs!

[MikeFairbanks]

Prove him wrong?

Oh, and WALL O TEXT

That was kind of rude.

[MikeFairbanks]

On the original topic:

It doesn't matter what field, there will always be A-holes. In traffic (tailgating), in lines, at work, at Disneyland, etc. Pushy, nosy, aggressive people. They were probably abused as kids and walk through life angry at everyone.


You just have to be the better person and know that in the long run nice guys really do finish first. Dennis Rodman was a jerk. Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson are legends. Every field has to have its good guys and bad guys. Mike Tyson is a perfect example of what happens to the mean guys along the way. They crash and burn.

Chris Brown comes to mind.


Last summer when I was taking pictures at a professional surfing event the pro photographers were all on the beach with their ginormous white lenses. I had the 100-400 (a big lens but nothing compared to their 800s).

I went around asking lots of questions, and they were all pretty nice about it. The only thing one guy said (which was perfectly fair) was: "Each of us has secrets we won't reveal to anyone, and that's our edge."

I can respect that. The cool thing was that none of them had anything negative to say about others. I'd ask, "Who is that guy over there?' and they would tell me without saying anything derogatory.

It was a good experience.

On the other hand, there's a pro photographer in my neighborhood who is nice enough to me (because he knows I'm strictly an amateur), but he says stuff like, "A stand for amateur, T for Terrible, etc."

He says that if your camera is on anything but Manual that you're a hack. I just ignored him on that point.

[freaking102]

A photographer I met last January at a show for local bands has been trashing me! I used to shoot at a club in my area and I was getting a lot of work and some of it was repeat work. I would get paid by the club and not the bands. The bands would purchase work from me. One night another photographer showed up at the club and he was immediately told by the club bouncer they had a house photographer and to tread lightly as I had a great relationship with the owner(he's married to a great friend of mine). We start chit chatting and I introduce him to some of the managers of a few of the bands. I did this for 2 reasons. #1 I'm a nice gal and #2 I knew I was going to be leaving the area pretty soon and thought maybe he'd like to take my spot or something. We continued to shoot for another few months together and then I left. I moved back a few weeks ago and started to get caught up with the scene again only to find out that when I left the other photographer had started dissing on me calling me all kinds of names, saying my work sucked and even put up on his website a link to my site and trashing me! It was only for a few weeks but still! I'm getting emails forwarded to me right now from a few months ago when I left my city that this other photographer was sending to some of the bands I used to shoot. I know guys don't get caught up in drama(at least some guys) so I can see why I was never told this before but dang I've only been gone for 7 months. This other photographer still works the club. I've no desire to go back to shooting local bands but really what was the point of trashing me? I thought we had a pretty good relationship as we'd shoot every Friday and Saturday night together at the club. There never seemed any animosity.

Why in the Business section? Because money was made on my end. I don't live in a small city BUT I do have it on my website the city I live in. I just hope this dude doesn't start trashing me again now that I have moved back and he could view me as competition. I'm still debating if I should say anything as it happened back in Aug and September.

Has this ever happened to anyone?

this is about clubbing? sounds like typical teenagers and immature kids in their 20s. don't worry, when you get out in the adult world people will behave a bit better. what people write on the internet matters little, as it is a small world of youth that obsess over it -- once you operate in adult world you will find that people don't have time to write or read negativity of social web sites.

[Clueless163]

On the original topic:

It doesn't matter what field, there will always be A-holes. In traffic (tailgating), in lines, at work, at Disneyland, etc. Pushy, nosy, aggressive people. They were probably abused as kids and walk through life angry at everyone.

there are a lot of a-holes at work(factory), I just so happened to be a material handler....anyways, I'll get a certain group of people that would bitch and complain about everything. I had enough of it one day and told them to get their own parts.

[shphoto32]

Wow, I guess I'll have to keep my guard up. I had no Idea it could be so vicious out there.

[LauraSB]

this is about clubbing? sounds like typical teenagers and immature kids in their 20s. don't worry, when you get out in the adult world people will behave a bit better. what people write on the internet matters little, as it is a small world of youth that obsess over it -- once you operate in adult world you will find that people don't have time to write or read negativity of social web sites.

Uh no it's not about clubbing as I'm 30 and don't shoot in clubs. I however shoot local bands in a certain club. I'm well grown up enough as I've just ended a career in the military and am now onto a new career.

[snyderman]

Sounds like it's time to move on, LauraSB. Shooting bands (kids) in clubs is probably for the kids. If you're 30, it's probably PAST time to move on.

dave

[MJPhotos24]

this is about clubbing? sounds like typical teenagers and immature kids in their 20s. don't worry, when you get out in the adult world people will behave a bit better. what people write on the internet matters little, as it is a small world of youth that obsess over it -- once you operate in adult world you will find that people don't have time to write or read negativity of social web sites.

If only this were true. There's people of all ages who do what this guy is doing (have you seen politicians twitters and facebooks and other social networking sites lately?). Not sure of his age and honestly it has nothing to do with it. I can name at least 5-6 I've shot with who act like jerks because they're simply jerks. The guy in my example was in his 40's, the girl also in her 40's I think or just well aged. Can name a guy in his late 70's who acts like an immature a-hole, and another 23 - why, they're just immature ah's!. The "adult world" is full of them to and though MOST people mature, not all do! Still remember when I started teaching (subbing) every day and the advice I got was stay out of the teachers lounge, well I went in to find they were acting more like immature teenagers than the students. Again, not all but a small percentage - it's everywhere in the "adult world" to. The older folk may not post it on social sites but they sure do not keep it secret in public or via phone and emails.

Sounds like it's time to move on, LauraSB. Shooting bands (kids) in clubs is probably for the kids. If you're 30, it's probably PAST time to move on.

dave

It's not where you shoot and this comment is insulting to some very good photographers who are still "clubbing", i.e. shooting bands in different clubs and venues. Bands, like photographers, come in all ages and not sure what constitutes telling photographers that they reach a certain age they should have to give it up. I guess all those well known band photographers and music magazine photographers are just wasting their golden years of 25 and above.

[LauraSB]

Sounds like it's time to move on, LauraSB. Shooting bands (kids) in clubs is probably for the kids. If you're 30, it's probably PAST time to move on.

dave

Most of the bands in the clubs I shoot are around my age. You have to be at least 21 to get into this particular club. That's not what the original post was about. Not my age. It was about a photographer (who happens to be older than me) trashing me around. Age doesn't matter. There are photographers older than me who are very immature and spit on each other. I happen to enjoy going to concerts and have friends who perform in bands. Some are older than me some are younger than me. It's not about the age, it's about the music for me.

I've been to so many concerts and I enjoy going to concerts. Just because I'm 30 doesn't mean I have to stop enjoying music. My husband plays guitar and from time to time will sub for a guitarist who's out due to whatever. And he's 28 in training to be an officer in the military.

Not just young 20 something year olds enjoy music. The Used is one of my favorite bands and I always catch the show when they are in town.

[noxcuses1]

Sounds like it's time to move on, LauraSB. Shooting bands (kids) in clubs is probably for the kids. If you're 30, it's probably PAST time to move on.
dave

Wow, Dave, just wow. :rolleyes:



.....this comment is insulting to some very good photographers who are still "clubbing", i.e. shooting bands in different clubs and venues. Bands, like photographers, come in all ages and not sure what constitutes telling photographers that they reach a certain age they should have to give it up. I guess all those well known band photographers and music magazine photographers are just wasting their golden years of 25 and above.

+1 @ MJPhotos2

[JFusion]

Suck it it up, grow some skin and just do your thing.

[joemusic321]

there are a lot of a-holes at work(factory), I just so happened to be a material handler....anyways, I'll get a certain group of people that would bitch and complain about everything. I had enough of it one day and told them to get their own parts.

The world is full of them. I call them BMWs (bitchers, moaners and whiners). Too bad you can't always just ignore them.

[JWright]

this is about clubbing? sounds like typical teenagers and immature kids in their 20s. don't worry, when you get out in the adult world people will behave a bit better. what people write on the internet matters little, as it is a small world of youth that obsess over it -- once you operate in adult world you will find that people don't have time to write or read negativity of social web sites.

The adult world isn't any better. I spent 15 years working in an aircraft plant (before internet) and it was just the same. I was also a member of a motorcycle club whose internal politics and backstabbing finally drove me out.

If only this were true. There's people of all ages who do what this guy is doing (have you seen politicians twitters and facebooks and other social networking sites lately?).


Bad mouthing your opponent is an accepted campaign tactic.

Rarely do you see a politician try to tell you what he/she has done. They tell you what is wrong with what their opponent has done. We're two months away from the primary in California and already this has been going on for a month...

[pspwa]

Detracter, smart-mouths and people who seem to make it their business to make your life difficult are everywhere.
I know it is hurtful and in some situations it can really knock the enjoyment of things and to have this kind of back-hander from someone you felt comfortable with tends to make it even more so.
However...trying to work out the "why?" doesn't deserve much mental effort...better to pour that energy into making better images.

But I think Snap hit it on the head....
....really pissed off when it happened, and it became a very powerful motivator to make my work 10x better then it had been.

[nicksan]

Humans...

[harroz]

so true!

Humans...

[ChrisMc73]

Sounds like it's time to move on, LauraSB. Shooting bands (kids) in clubs is probably for the kids. If you're 30, it's probably PAST time to move on.

dave

- 1 on this post, ignore it. Keep shooting bands if thats what you love to do, doesn't matter what age you are!

[EnronRocks]

It's business, if he( or she) wants to be cut throat, you need to be more cut throat.

[Shockey]

Don't engage in it.
Ignore it like he is dirt under your foot not worthy of notice.

[MJPhotos24]

- 1 on this post, ignore it. Keep shooting bands if thats what you love to do, doesn't matter what age you are!
I'm so glad guys like Jim Marshall followed this road!

[LauraSB]

I would never let another person or my age dictate what type of photography I shoot. Now my health might be a different story. But I'm not going to stop shooting because of my age. And to tell me to move on because I'm 30 is ridiculous. I might as well stop photographing children too since I'm not a child anymore. Or stop shooting military since I'm not in the military anymore.

And to everyone else thank you kindly for the advice. I've decided to ignore it and treat the situation professionally and not politically. I'm not too concerned about this person and my body of work speaks for me. I'm not too concerned about losing business because of him. I excel in areas he wishes he could. It's just nice to hear other's similar stories.

[SnapLocally.com]

Now post pics!

[Stealthy Ninja]

Sounds like it's time to move on, LauraSB. Shooting bands (kids) in clubs is probably for the kids. If you're 30, it's probably PAST time to move on.

dave

This has to be a troll attempt.

[snails]

Whatever you do, do not stoop to their level. Be the better person. Your personality got you the contacts in the first place, their personality will lose them business.

[Methodical]

Yep and kill them with kindness...just speak and keep moving. That person won't know what to think.

Suck it it up, grow some skin and just do your thing.

[Shooting]

Happens to me all the time from a photographer who I thought was a friend. Once in a while he calls me to see how me and my family are doing and how business is. If I say business is bad (which it is) then he gloats to everyone else how good he is and how bad I am. If I say business is great he'll almost beg me to throw some work his way so I never get close to any other photographer anymore.

[Crimzon]

Don't just forget about it. Especially if the OP said there was trashing done on the website. If you can prove any of this, mostly the web bashing, this may be a case for slander, or libel. Ignoring will not make it go away. This isn't the school yard with playground code. This is real life, and if someone is, going out of their way to tarnish your name, you can get a lawyer, and sue their arse. The only way they are going to think twice about stopping, is if you give them a reason.

[Karl Johnston]

It's business, if he( or she) wants to be cut throat, you need to be more cut throat.
Uh...huh.....

[ZXDrew]

Don't engage in it.
Ignore it like he is dirt under your foot not worthy of notice.

I'm more along this line of thinking.

[Clueless163]

Don't just forget about it. Especially if the OP said there was trashing done on the website. If you can prove any of this, mostly the web bashing, this may be a case for slander, or libel. Ignoring will not make it go away. This isn't the school yard with playground code. This is real life, and if someone is, going out of their way to tarnish your name, you can get a lawyer, and sue their arse. The only way they are going to think twice about stopping, is if you give them a reason.

I wouldn't file defamation charges just yet, I'd go with restraining order for harassment...he can still go to jail btw

[chomish]

I think the best thing to do, is nothing. Even if you go up to him, theres nothing you could do. Your not going to bash his head in. So i think the best thing to do is nothing and just let others see for themselves who this idiot is.

Good luck.