Legality question...

[90sShooter]

I have a question about laws and so forth. Me and my cousen recently started taking pictures of motorcyclist riding through the local mountain for sale via the web. This mountain is a VERY popular ride for motorcyclist for its turns and views. As a motorcyclist myself it is quite a ride. Anyway, we basically set up at a corner and throw a banner on the car with our website info and sit there and snap pictures of the passing bikers. The first two weeks were good with no problems at all... Cops patrol this highway on weekends because some of the bikes get out of hand. The first two weeks we saw several cops and they just went along with their business. However, this last weekend one cop pulled over to and asked if we were taking pictures of bikes. He proceed to tell us that we cannot do that because we are encouraging the bikers to speed. Also that we were not allowed to make a "non emergency stop" there at that turnout. It is a very large turnout and there are NO signs saying emercency stop only. We agreed to leave but shortly after called the sheriffs department for clarification. When he called the sheriffs department he got a dispatcher or something but they told him as long as there were no signs saying emergency vehicles only, there was no reason why we could not take pictures on the side of the road. I know it gets a little more complicated than this because the cop is basically saying that we are promoting speeding when we really are not. The fact is the bikes are going to go fast weather we are there or not. In fact, the bikes that are going that fast are not even our target demograpics because they don't even see our sign when they are flying past. Can somebody shed some light on this for me? What are our rights? It seems rediculous that we cannot sit on the side of a road and take pictures...

[thebishopp]

The dispatcher is correct baring any state traffic laws or local ordinances.

Of course the cop could try and cite or arrest you for some type of "failure to obey a police officer" though absent any lawful reason for his "order" it shouldn't make it past the prosecutors office and could give a you lawsuit against the city/county for false arrest or police harrasment.

I would call the prosecutors office and get their take on the situation (as well as the name of prosecutor who gives you the info). Also speak with that officers chief/sherriff and get their take on it as well.

[LBaldwin]

The best thing you can do is go talk to the local DA and get his or her opinion. Get a card from them too. So if you get told that you are NOT breaking any laws you can show the card to the police officer and show that you got some LEGAL clarification. That being said, what you are probably doing is not safe, for you or for the bike riders. If they pay attention to you then they are NOT paying attention to the road. And being a rider too, you know how fast things can go to hell. In other words a picture is not worth an accident. Not all riders will be experienced enough to handle both, but foolish enough to try that road. Not trying to rain on your parade but maybe you might consider another way to sell/shoot those images.

[90sShooter]

thebishopp - Funny that is exactly what I was telling my cousen. I have been told twice by a police officer before and the second time he told me if I did it again he would take my to jail for "not obeying a lawful order". (Funny story but had to do with riding my bike on a highway when I only had a permit, california rules...) So I knew weather he was right or wrong, we needed to leave when he asked us to otherwise we might have problems.

LBaldwin - I do see your point and we try to do everything possible to be inconspicuous. We park the car with the banner on the straight away after the turn to make it safe for the riders to look and see who we are... Also the turn is very wide and open so the riders have plenty of room for error. And the point is to get them not looking... ;)

I will talk to the local DA and see what they say about it. Thanks for the advice guys...

[blindz24]

No sign indicating you can't park there, and just a regular bystander taking photos of whatever, you have every right to be there. Perhaps they think because you're selling the photos and advertising that you're responsible for inviting them up there to do 'crazy things', but even tho that isn't the case they still need actual legal grounds to tell you to leave. No sign they cant say you cant park there. Not causing any harm, they technically cant tell you to leave as it isnt private property either. Worst case scenerio as already mentioned they give you a ticket or whatever, you fight it, its thrown out or they look stupid and it gets ripped up. Don't be a jerk about it tho lol be polite and say I'm in my legal rights to be here, I am not disturbing anything and I certainly didn't invite anyone up here to do anything illegal or dangerous. I happened to see some interesting things to take photos of so here I am, no one asked me to be here. End of story. Thats what i would do anyway, politely.

- T.

[neilwood32]

I would go with the "get the DA's opinion" as at the end of the day, that is the only one that will really count.

If you get the opinion that there is no problem with taking shots at that location, then make sure it is given in writing or with a witness (just to be sure). That way, if you get ticketed, you have a reasonably defence should it ever get to court (without the witness/written opinion it could become "he said/she said" in which case you lose against a law enforcement officer).

[deadpass]

The cop was either on A. a power trip, B. incorrectly understand the law(s), or C. both. I'm going with C. It is never good to anger a cop (especially if they are wrong) but it's up to you to decide if the confrontation and possible outcomes is worth it.

[Joe Ravenstein]

Is this road known as the dragons tail by any chance??

[dave421]

If it is the "Tail of the Dragon" then there's already "Killboy" who is pretty well known by those that frequent the road. While it's not illegal to set up & take shots, that does NOT mean that he can't write you a ticket. I can't remember the statute here in NC off the top of my head right now but if they can show that people are speeding more where you are then you can basically be considered liable as a contributing cause. It's pretty rare to see someone charged that way though and I think it would be a difficult case to make for them if you actually fought the ticket. I'm sure that killboy is not the most popular guy on the mountain since he often criticizes Tennessee police for driving on the wrong side (with photos) so perhaps he could offer some advice as to whether he's ever had any issues. His site is http://www.killboy.com.

[CalPiker]

This also depends on what kind of road you are on. Is it a highway or a local road? You said California, and around where I live we have Ortega Highway (HWY 74). Since that is a state highway, you can't park on the side of the road except for emergencies. Be sure to really check the area if there are signs posted. There could also be local city or county ordinances prohibiting anyone from parking on the side of a road. You cannot be arrested (legally) for failure to obey a lawful order if he is asking you to leave and you haven't done anything illegal. However, he can arrest you if he wants to and drop the charges later (Questionable behavior, but does have an effect on the arrested person).

Get with your local DA and find out what laws you might or might not be violating. Never ask the police for legal advice. Always ask an attorney. See if they will put it in writing. That may or may not help you the next time that officer stops.

[CalPiker]

The cop was either on A. a power trip, B. incorrectly understand the law(s), or C. both. I'm going with C. It is never good to anger a cop (especially if they are wrong) but it's up to you to decide if the confrontation and possible outcomes is worth it.

We call if "Contempt of cop". It is never a good thing to do. It always turns out poorly for a person. :D

[cpforyou]

I personally do not see a problem for personal purposes.

However, as you are posting it for sale via the web, I see it as a commercial shoot that probably requires a photo or film permit from the city, considering you are "doing business" in that city within its ordinances. Once you get that, I don't see why it should be a problem. Just show any law enforcement officer the permit, and you should be pretty much in the clear.