Pros constant nickpick but Clients love it

[Domwolf]

I find myself between a rock and a hard place. I am in no way this photographer savant...i put in my time read read read, practice practice , read read , see see see ....you guys know the drill.

I take my shoots as they come and my friends , my family , joe blow i don't know tell me they are great , that they love it , wow , awesome etc etc.....so much so i am getting offers to do this , to do that , with pay ....

But when i post my pics in sites where there are other photographers to comment , some times it seems to me that some guys just like to nick pick and comment on your photos about stuff that really does not seam all that important but they phrase it in such a way that i comes across as your photos are junk...but that same pic gains me the opportunity to make money cause it's liked by the lame man . Which confuses the hell out of me.

So should i just " forget about the nick picking photographers and do my thing" or " Listen better to the comments and wait to get paid "

[digirebelva]

I guess that would depend on what they are commenting on, style, lighting, composition etc...are they legitimate nit picks or are they somebody's personal preference of how they think it should look?...we are either our own worst critics or our own worst at looking through rose colored glasses..I have found that the "I love your work" comments from Joe society usualy dont translate into "I want to buy it"...
You say you post in other sites..okay are you getting the same comments rather consistently across the sites...

[Domwolf]

I understand comments on lighting , cropping and PP..... composition sometimes is subjective so it really does not bother me when i get comments on that . What gets to me are what i have read hear on the forum are "Pixel Peepers" , the ones that for God knows what reason can never just say Good Shoot o Nice Work. They always have a but . but i would have , but you should have. And really never come across a constructive but rather bring you down .

I know that the regular person might not know the diffrence between hard light and soft shadows , between 4th quadrante of the rule of thirds and below the medium . But @ the end of the day it's regular people that hire you, me , us to do the jobs.

Don't get me wrong it not admiration from my peers that i look for , just wondering if others have seen this too.... that some photogs come across as arrogant when it comes to commenting.

I get many thumbs up and good work from many photogs, great , but like i said i have come across a few that man o man . They really take the cake.

[JayJphoto]

Don't get me wrong it not admiration from my peers that i look for , just wondering if others have seen this too.... that some photogs come across as arrogant when it comes to commenting.

I just read what they're saying, and if it has merit then I can shoot a better photo next time. If not, well...I disregard it. There is plenty of negativity in forums, especially photography. I choose distance myself from all the negativity, but look for valuable critiques. It's made me a better photographer...and less annoyed. :)

[danameless]

I would take the constructive criticism (if that is what it is) and decide which ones make a good point and can help you develop your skill, and which ones to ignore. The average person will "love" a picture as long as it is in focus and has great color I realize. Take for example, I shoot a lot of landscapes and one of the first rules I learn is to make sure the horizon is straight. I have many shots where the horizon was not straight, and people loved it - they could care less about the horizon being level.

But in forums, I can frame a shot with a tree in the foreground because I think it adds to the image. Another photographer can disagree and say the tree is distracting from the background. That to me, is all of personal opinion and although I might consider it, I would not change my style because someone didn't like the tree.

So in the end, I think it's up to you to decide what is good advice, and what is just someone sharing his/her opinion. However, if your shooting for a client - then you shoot what the client wants.

[gonzogolf]

Being good enough to sell to clients and being perfect are too different things. Depending on your potential clients it may not be that hard to satisfy their needs. If you are starting out it might be good to screen potential clients and dont take on any who you feel are going to want more than you can offer.
If you are waiting on universal praise from the POTN masses on your shots before you turn pro it will never happen. But that criticism isnt a bad thing if you analyze and learn from it. Most people who comment, even if you find it negative, do so out of some desire to help out. If I take the time to add a comment its usually because I want to help, even if the comment indicates I think you could have done better and I want to try to help you learn how. If you just blow off the bad comments you wont grow.

[TheBrick3]

I don't really show my stuff to anyone, I post it all on Flick and get decent traffic there, because I feel everyone is always going to either say they love it, because they don't know what they're talking about, or they love it, because they're being polite. I'm sure you're better than me, but when posting things - is there really any benefit in someone telling you that it's great?

[Mark1]

Its all in the nature on the beast! ANY topic will give you the same results. A group of passive people will love something a lot sooner than a group of highly interested people. Wether it is photography or dog training. Custom cars or house painting. fashion or bonzi trees. Flaws simply stand out to people who know the subject. Not so much to the average person.

It is hard for a photographer to not look at a image in technical terms, it gets built in after a while. An average viewer ( unless it is a bad image) really only sees the intent of the image. Not what it takes to build that image.

On forums you have to take the "great shot" with as much of a grain of salt as the "it sucks" comments. Basically just pool the responses and go from there.

[Mark1]

- is there really any benefit in someone telling you that it's great?

Only if they can tell you why they think it is great.

[Marius B]

I usually post my pictures on my website, share on facebook and then I post the links on here, and a lot of the times, I get constructive crticism here on POTN that really makes me wanna do the picture all over again or do something else in PP. And I have done it. I have never gotten any critic from my friends and family only that they like it.

Thats one of the great things about this forum, that we see things differently, and I hope we don't get to the point where everybody says only good things about the pictures. We have one site in Norway thats like that, and I don't learn anything from this site.

But if I disagree with the critisicm I just dont care about it. Like in transportation, some people thinks that every picture has to be cropped in tight to the car, but I like it more like a location shot with a car in it :)

[airfrogusmc]

I understand comments on lighting , cropping and PP..... composition sometimes is subjective so it really does not bother me when i get comments on that . What gets to me are what i have read hear on the forum are "Pixel Peepers" , the ones that for God knows what reason can never just say Good Shoot o Nice Work. They always have a but . but i would have , but you should have. And really never come across a constructive but rather bring you down .

I know that the regular person might not know the diffrence between hard light and soft shadows , between 4th quadrante of the rule of thirds and below the medium . But @ the end of the day it's regular people that hire you, me , us to do the jobs.

Don't get me wrong it not admiration from my peers that i look for , just wondering if others have seen this too.... that some photogs come across as arrogant when it comes to commenting.

I get many thumbs up and good work from many photogs, great , but like i said i have come across a few that man o man . They really take the cake.

Actually you can tell if its something that is legit by trying it and seeing if it makes image better and nit picking will only make you better and start to notice the little things that separate OK photos from really good photographs. sometimes its a fine line that separates Ok from really good.

If you are working in some areas of photography that can be very lucrative its not the everyday guy judging your work its other professionals like art director and graphic designers and if your going to be in the biz and have any longevity you have to get very thick skin and learn to properly defend your wok and realize in the end in the professional world its the client that has to be happy.

[snyderman]

when you post shots on a global forum, (POTN certainly is!) whether you asked for opinions or not, you'll likely receive them!

When I post shots and want help, I'm sure to ask specifically about WB, lighting, composition, etc. If you cite specific examples (post pics) and ask for comments on one aspect or another, it usually yields good perspectives from the more experienced here.

Maybe where you are personally and the nitpicking you perceive comes down to nothing more than stylistic or artistic taste. If so, I'd say you got the gig licked then!

Lastly, if you're customers think you're great, guess what? You ARE!!!

dave

[PhotosGuy]

If your shots are all "Great stuff", then the only things left to pick on are the "nits".
If they're not so great, then you don't know the difference & everything will sound like a nit. ;)

[Domwolf]

And as THE MIZ would say "You GUYS are AWESOME " Thanks

[golfecho]

A little off topic, but remember that marketing (what your customers like) is not the same thing as photography. They may overlap, but they are not the same thing.

[Mike R]

If you get the same comments from different people, they might be right. When I get a critique, good or bad, I look at the work of the photographer who gave the critique. If I think its great, I listen.

[Mark1]

I When I get a critique, good or bad, I look at the work of the photographer who gave the critique. If I think its great, I listen.


I hear this all the time and it just does not make sense to me. I cant swim but I know when somebody is drowning. Or even not swimming well. There was that gymnastic coach in the 80's(I forget his name) that has had like 6 of his girls win olympic gold. I cant even imagine him doing a back flip on a balence beam. Or working the paralell bars. But obviously he knows what he is talking about...etc..etc.

Knowledge does not equal ability. And ability does not equal knowledge. When I was in photo schoool we had guys that could quote everything there was about the technical side of photography, including how the chemistry works on the molecular level. But could not ever produce anything better than a snap shot. But they were our first call when we needed explinations. And then there was 1 guy that could not remember anything technically but had viable commercial work in his first year, and his only explination was " It just felt right"

There are people that can produce the most beautiful work but are basically talking out their a_ _. Others speak in gold, but simply lack the ability to put the know how to practical use.

[Karizmatik]

I understand comments on lighting , cropping and PP..... composition sometimes is subjective so it really does not bother me when i get comments on that . What gets to me are what i have read hear on the forum are "Pixel Peepers" , the ones that for God knows what reason can never just say Good Shoot o Nice Work. They always have a but . but i would have , but you should have. And really never come across a constructive but rather bring you down .

I know that the regular person might not know the diffrence between hard light and soft shadows , between 4th quadrante of the rule of thirds and below the medium . But @ the end of the day it's regular people that hire you, me , us to do the jobs.

Don't get me wrong it not admiration from my peers that i look for , just wondering if others have seen this too.... that some photogs come across as arrogant when it comes to commenting.

I get many thumbs up and good work from many photogs, great , but like i said i have come across a few that man o man . They really take the cake.

It depends on the person critiquing in every instance for me. And the forum, too.

I post here on POTN quite regularly in a few on-going threads and have yet to really hear anything so bad (Or even a little bad) where I'd go back and re-do it. A few personal tastes, but they voice it as such. All in all, POTN is a good place for my photos to be.

Though on another forum I go to (I admit it is out of pure humour that I do), they are all 40-60 year old 'wanna be' photographers who wouldn't know current style if it bit them in the ass, they all hate my stuff and constantly "nit pick" at what they think should be done. But unless I want flat, centred images, with no artistic style what-so-ever... I of course wouldn't listen to them.

It all comes down to the demographic you are trying to portray your images to.

If you do it on a Pro Level and your images are "Pro" worthy - You'll get good responses.

If you do it on a Pro Level and try to portray them to Amateur Photographer's - When they are still in the stages of, "Oh that photo is horrible, it isn't centred." -- Then of course, Pro Level Photography will wash right over them.

And last but not least - The laymen group. I think most people can tell for themselves without any influence from what "should" be done in Photography, if they actually like or dislike something. Same as they do with Art; paintings, drawings, etc.

This group of people though, even if they dislike something, because it is being presented to them on what they probably believe to be a "Pro" level, wouldn't contest it as being bad or good, simply 'cause they probably don't believe they have the grounds or right to and will 9/10 simply say they like it, without any reasoning.

[zagiace]

imo you should have a solid understanding of the general rules of what makes a good photograph. after you understand you can commence breaking the crap out of them.
Much of photography is opinion, but there are general ideas as to what makes a good shot.
Your typical client presented with a good photograph (technically ) and a bad one will often pick the good one as the better of the two but will mostly not be able to tell you specifically why.
The average client is also not going to tell you if they are not happy with your work. They will praise you, thank you, buy the minimum and move on. Getting repeat business, big average sales and your clients are referring you to their friends and family is really the only way to tell whether your work is cutting it.

[zagiace]

I hear this all the time and it just does not make sense to me. I cant swim but I know when somebody is drowning. Or even not swimming well. There was that gymnastic coach in the 80's(I forget his name) that has had like 6 of his girls win olympic gold. I cant even imagine him doing a back flip on a balence beam. Or working the paralell bars. But obviously he knows what he is talking about...etc..etc.

Knowledge does not equal ability. And ability does not equal knowledge. When I was in photo schoool we had guys that could quote everything there was about the technical side of photography, including how the chemistry works on the molecular level. But could not ever produce anything better than a snap shot. But they were our first call when we needed explinations. And then there was 1 guy that could not remember anything technically but had viable commercial work in his first year, and his only explination was " It just felt right"

There are people that can produce the most beautiful work but are basically talking out their a_ _. Others speak in gold, but simply lack the ability to put the know how to practical use.
well said...

[photoguy6405]

Sometimes other photographers are "too close" to the art form to be completely subjective, and thus sometimes focus on the trivial in an otherwise fine photograph in the name of perfection.

The pecking order of worthy comments should be thus...
1. Those who are actually handing over money for your photographs.
2. Other photographers offering critiques.
3. Friends and family.
4. Joe Blow who raves over your work but never buys a thing.

[PMCphotography]

I hardly ever post any pics online or flickr- i'm lucky enough to be able to photography for a living, and ultimately what those who pay for my photography think about the photos are what really matters.

[jonwhite]

Learning to accept and use critique positively is one of the most valuable things a photographer can learn imo.

Too many times people who are sharing photos are just looking for positive feedback only and get defensive or react badly to the least little bit of critique that could be useful if they only took it on board.

Yup its important for customers to like your work but if you want to grow as a photographer then critique from other photographers can be a very useful tool.

Even if you dont agree with whats being said by everyone try not to get too defensive and let it wash over you and absorb some of it and you will be a better photographer in the long run imo.

[Tarzanman]

Haters want to hate, lovers want to love.

Honestly, photography is so subjective that you should probably only care what other people think if you are trying to sell to them or you value their opinions.

For example, I took this test shot (http://riftwave.net/misc/2004.R1.dark.crop.jpg) while playing around with the off-camera flash function on my 7D.

There are a bunch of things that could have made the photo better (especially having enough light to silhouette the top of the bike). Also,a bunch of people on another board dissed on the photo. No skin off my back. Despite its flaws, I like the photo so much that it is my current computer wallpaper.

If your clients love your stuff then giving them more of it ($$!) is good business.

[gonzogolf]

Haters want to hate, lovers want to love.

Honestly, photography is so subjective that you should probably only care what other people think if you are trying to sell to them or you value their opinions.

For example, I took this test shot (http://riftwave.net/misc/2004.R1.dark.crop.jpg) while playing around with the off-camera flash function on my 7D.

There are a bunch of things that could have made the photo better (especially having enough light to silhouette the top of the bike). Also,a bunch of people on another board dissed on the photo. No skin off my back. Despite its flaws, I like the photo so much that it is my current computer wallpaper.

If your clients love your stuff then giving them more of it ($$!) is good business.
Dont confuse haters got to hate, with legitimate critiques though. If you fall in love with your own work and disregard honest critique you might find yourself setting your standards too low.

[Tom Reichner]

So should i just " forget about the nick picking photographers and do my thing" or " Listen better to the comments and wait to get paid "

You should pay acute attention to both the nit-piks and the better comments from those who want to buy your images. Most photographers want to take perfect pictures. If there is anything that keeps an image from being perfect, it will bug the heck out of us, because we are photographers and image-making is our craft. However, the average person will usually like an image for what the image is of - the subject.

If you've got a shot of a guy's kid kicking a soccer ball past a goalie, he's gonna want that pic! But to you, the image's creator, it would probably bother you terribly if the kid's dark blue shorts are lacking fabric detail, while his light blue jersey shirt shows the detail of the material perfectly.

As photographers, we want to take images that are absolutely flawless, and when we look at the images that others have taken, our eyes long to see the same aesthetic perfection that we strive to create in our own images.

Go on and continue making the images that people like enough to want to buy. But strive to find ways to make these images even better than what you're already doing. The nit-pik criticisms will help you learn what areas of your image-making you need to improve.