Circuit of Ireland.

[Tír Eoghain]

By no means am I a good photographer, but what annoys me most is the arseholes that block your view when you stand in a location for over an hour to get a good view.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7444/sdc10666a.jpg

Now, why do half a dozen media men need to stand in a huddle? Its like watching a rally through a wall almost. Is this problem just in ireland or do other amateur photographers have the same problem

[Red Dog]

If they were any good they'd be crouched down not standing up!
Reminds me of a story where a guy walked into a soccer International, waved a press pass and sat down amongst the pros with their Canon 400's/ Nikons etc and pulled out a disposable camera and began to take snaps. Needless to say the pros went ballistic. The organisers have since tightened up the media accreditation process so that its nigh impossible for anyone outside the few recognised pros to get in. If these guys had any respect for the public they'd be keeping as low as possible to allow ordinary punters a good view if nothing else.

[jetcode]

They must have been running that race when I was in Ireland. I swear drivers on those tiny back roads only get air when they see a tourist driving towards them.

It's annoying but on the other hand it also lends to the story and I the viewer now know this is a race not a local driver getting air for his friends. It's a good photograph.

[Tír Eoghain]

As I said, I'm not clued up on motorsport photography, I love watcing & enjoy looking at the "pros" photos.

I can see what you mean Red Dog, maybe crouched down would not only give me a clear view but give a better angle for no. 60 & 61 media men. I think its plain ignorance on any of these media men to block other peoples view, a friend with me asked them to crouch down, but with the hat and hood up, it appeared the media "pros" have a blatant disregard for the general spectator as the ignored his request.

[evo5ive]

In fairness to the pro togs, it's MUCH easier and quicker to get out of the way of an out-of-control car if you're already on your feet.

If I was shooting where they were there's no way anyone could convince me to crouch or kneel down, sorry!

[kgrally]

I'd just like to put my side off the story! I am one of the "pros" in your shot. At no stage was I asked to move or crouch by anyone. The last thing I'd do is spoil anyone enjoyment. I've been the spectator standing on the ditch. Spoke to quite a few spectators and said to anyone with a camera if I was blocking their view i'd happaily move.
I was at this point for the two runs over the stage so didn't just turn up and stand in front off you!! I was the fifth car to park at the junction and one of the last to leave.
Just my side of the story.
Kevin

[Tír Eoghain]

lol - small world.

Well KGrally, as you said, you were a spectator standing on the ditch, how would you have liked photos like the one shown? Now for me, seeing a rally is more important than taking the photos, your blue or red coat doesn't bother me in the photos, it just bothers my view. I never even took pics of every car, just tried to view the action through the media wall.>:( How anyone can try to get a different photo is beyond me when you're all in a rugby scrum nearly.

In future, think of the punters behind

[blindz24]

lol - small world.

Well KGrally, as you said, you were a spectator standing on the ditch, how would you have liked photos like the one shown? Now for me, seeing a rally is more important than taking the photos, your blue or red coat doesn't bother me in the photos, it just bothers my view. I never even took pics of every car, just tried to view the action through the media wall.>:( How anyone can try to get a different photo is beyond me when you're all in a rugby scrum nearly.

In future, think of the punters behind

Or y'know you could just politely say excuse me would you mind shifting over a bit I can't see ... lol

- T.

[Tír Eoghain]

Or y'know you could just politely say excuse me would you mind shifting over a bit I can't see ... lol

- T.


tried that

[kgrally]

lol - small world.

Well KGrally, as you said, you were a spectator standing on the ditch, how would you have liked photos like the one shown? Now for me, seeing a rally is more important than taking the photos, your blue or red coat doesn't bother me in the photos, it just bothers my view. I never even took pics of every car, just tried to view the action through the media wall.>:( How anyone can try to get a different photo is beyond me when you're all in a rugby scrum nearly.

In future, think of the punters behind

As said in my previous post would only be happy to move if asked. So don't be shy next time:rolleyes:

Kevin

[Dermott S]

tir eoghain,

first off let me just say kevin nor any of his colleagues for that matter are arseholes, there isn't a more honest or accomodating bunch you could meet!

you can still see the car and if you were that bothered about taking pictures why were you attempting to take the exact same picture (all be it a little wider) as the media scrum...even if you were there first!

irish ditches often limit the # of relatively safe locations a jump can be photographed from the front (direction of sun also can play a part...when it does come out) so on major events like the coi of ireland where media interest is quite high.....unfortunately a media scrum will apear creating the wall you encountered!

hope you've better luck at your next rally avoiding the media scrum or asking them to move

D

[mikey_mac]

Tir Eoghain,

In your position there only 2 things I see that you can do,
(1) Ask the guys in a polite manner if they could move back or to the side a little, any time i've done this as a spectator I find the guys to be more than accomodating if you ask in a reasonable manner.
(2) Find another spot, don't always follow the seagulls :), opposite side of the road just behind the scoobie in the pic would have caught the jump from a slightly different angle with unobstructed view, or maybe further along somewhere.

Personally if I was'nt happy with either of the above I would probably have put my camera in the bag and enjoyed the action seeing as how that was the main reason I went along in the first place. Dont forget these guys have to make a living from this in the same way as everyone else usually does from Mon to Fri. Just my opinion as a rally fan who enjoys taking a few shots of the action too.

[Chisholm]

I totally agree with Mikey-Mac
Its all a matter of what youre there for, to spectate and get a couple of shots as a memento of the day , or to actually do your 9 to 5 and provide reportage and shots that will sell, to make a living, as well as promote the event to everyone. They are , for that reason, perfectly entitled to stand where their accreditation allows them, ie anywhere, and as Kev said why didnt you just say "scuse me guys" ? , its all right to bite your lip in the rain out on the stage, and then call them arseholes when youre sitting behind your keyboard, safely tucked up in your cosy lounge ? , that doesnt achieve anything really, youre better off on www.rant.org
, ......also, were there that many other 'tators standing around you that a move of a couple of metres wasnt available ? , a longer more straight on shot may have worked better anyway.........imho

Tom

[ST-PHILIP]

I too know Kevin, and the other photogrpaher in that shot, and 2 more decent blokes you could not meet. I do understand how you could be frustrated but, as Kevin said, if you asked him, he would have moved. I myself have moved on numerous occaisions, sometimes even when asked in a none-too-polite manner. It costs nothing to be civil. After all, we share a common interest, or in my case, obsession! :eek:

What people don't realise is the dedication, committment and financial outlay required to take motorsport pics. We go to all the rallies we can, including the clubmen and club rallies, not just the big events. We stand out in all sorts of weather, summer and winter, and travel all over the country in pursuit of our hobby/work. Travel expenses aren't cheap, neither is good all-weather clothing, camera bags and last, but not least, camera equipment. Some of my photographer mates have gear worth thousands of pounds! Sadly, I'm not quite in their league, although I am working on it! ;)

I think what excacerbated the problem here, was the fact that this was a 'headline' event, with all the extra media and spectator attention that attracts. I honestly prefer the smaller, clubmen rallies, especially the forest ones. More photo-ops. If you perhaps tried a few of the smaller events, you may be pleasantly surprised. I warn you, though, they are addictive.

Next time, Tír Eoghain, if you ask, I'm sure they will only be too happy to accomodate you. You should even have a yarn with them/us. We don't bite, aren't arseholes ( I hope! :lol:), and enjoy nowt more than a bit of banter with marshals and spectators alike. :)

[Snydremark]

In fairness to the pro togs, it's MUCH easier and quicker to get out of the way of an out-of-control car if you're already on your feet.

If I was shooting where they were there's no way anyone could convince me to crouch or kneel down, sorry!

This was my first thought, too...

Also, the press folks are working for the event; which means they get paid for their shots. If I had to guess, I would say that there isn't any malice involved but they should have priority on shooting spots.

[Tír Eoghain]

As mentioned, my mate asked the "pros" to move.

And for editorial. i'm sure an editor wont be happy seeing pics in his inbox when half a dozen other papers/mags have same shot.

Finally, Dermott, I want a clear view thats why I chose my spot early. And next time i will do the same only exception will be if my mate wants the media pros to move, he might well ask, but i'll be telling them.

See you at t.o.t Sperrins no doubt, I'll be the one with the Hurling stick

[kgrally]

As mentioned, my mate asked the "pros" to move.

And for editorial. i'm sure an editor wont be happy seeing pics in his inbox when half a dozen other papers/mags have same shot.

Finally, Dermott, I want a clear view thats why I chose my spot early. And next time i will do the same only exception will be if my mate wants the media pros to move, he might well ask, but i'll be telling them.

See you at t.o.t Sperrins no doubt, I'll be the one with the Hurling stick

Hate to repeat myself but for the 3rd time at no stage was I asked to move by anyone. I'd have moved without complaint. So maybe a little manners and no need of the threats of violence.
Then again if your name signifys your county of origin your use of a hurling stick may leave a lot to be desired!

Kevin

[Dermott S]

As mentioned, my mate asked the "pros" to move.

And for editorial. i'm sure an editor wont be happy seeing pics in his inbox when half a dozen other papers/mags have same shot.

Finally, Dermott, I want a clear view thats why I chose my spot early. And next time i will do the same only exception will be if my mate wants the media pros to move, he might well ask, but i'll be telling them.

See you at t.o.t Sperrins no doubt, I'll be the one with the Hurling stick

Tir Eoghain,

Pop quiz...what shot did both pacenotes & carsport carry as the cover from donegal '09? .....yep the answer is MacHale over the jump in Knockalla shot by SC & R O'D respectively. Editors want and need the top action....many photographers believed it would happen at the jump on SS1/5 at this years COI as did you.

All photogrpahers (amateur/professional) have been in your situation at some point. How you deal with it will pretty much decide how you progress at motorsports photography.....deal with by asking politely, asking assertively but don't come ranting on here about it.....this forum has a wealth of knowledge you can call upon to help you so long as you listen!

Any photogrpahers i know will be accomodating to spectators who've been waiting ahead of them...asking nicely should give you the clear view your after....so long as your not unreasonably after all of the view!

Was i at the jump in question? yep I stood pretty much where the media are positioned in your shot the sunday before and thought it would be like hamiltons folly the previous year....spectators and media alike vying for a clear view...so i chose more secluded locations for a clear view and something different. Rally spectating has a few in's and out's which are easily solved!

yep see ya at the sperrins, hopefully the hurley will only be required as a monpod!

D

[Tír Eoghain]

I'll just refer to the 16th word of my original post.

And Kg, no shortage of silverware when it comes to a ball in this county.

[Chisholm]

Right, this is getting interesting now........ the fact that you had to get your mate to whisper " excuse me" to the people that provide a service that promotes the event and thus generates a top class entry and event buzz is all well and good, but your motive must be big enough to justify sitting down and battering the keys, steaming with vemehence ( www.thefreedictionary.com if youre not sure ) , but lets see some shots of yours without the togs there, that would have meant the reason for you standing your ground, not thinking, "well, its pishing down with rain, and my Vans are getting real wet, might try another spot", oh you said you were by no means a good photographer, you have proved that hansomely. So let me put it to you that in future, as you may have already been advised, best thing to do in this situation is put down the point and press and use your mobile, and post the resulting images on YouTube, calling it "A Roit owld rumshie at t' Raaly" - lol

Tom

[Tír Eoghain]

"A Roit owld rumshie at t' Raaly" - lol

Tom


Tried that in google translate but it doesn't recognise it? Can you perhaps translate that?

And I apologise for posting, I never knew the forum was for excellent photographers like yourself "Jock". Perhaps when I'm over for the JC you can assist me on how to capture the expert shot?

And some of those guys providing the expert service are using equipment that is - well, hardly pro standard. And Chris, my mate never whispered, nor was he rude in shouting " Oi, F+++ off" You were I assume in bonny Scotland at easter so you sup up your Bells or Irn Bru and leave the facts to those who were there at the location.

[chrispons]

Ti'r,
I photograph rallies all the time,folk get my way,I probably sometimes do the same sometimes,and often I am at a corner early,but then a few minutes before the cars come ,loads of togs turn up,sometimes I know them,often I dont,but thats what happens,so rather than get stressed about it ,then coming on here calling well respected Pro Togs ,arseholes,chill out ,enjoy the day ,and fit in with the crowd,or move to a differant location ,or move position,or failing that watch the rallying ,then enjoy the proper pictures these togs take and show on here.

Pons

[Chisholm]

Well if this is turning into stereotypes hour, you should have put down the shillelagh, stopped looking for the pot of gold (there was no rainbow in your shot), and wished into your bowl of lucky charms that those big bad togs would disappear for ever, the eejits that they are.....
I'm glad youre coming to JC, I wont have to look hard for you, you'll stick out like a sore thumb jumping up and down tutting and cursing at every person with a camera that stands anywhere near you !!!!
Tom

[Cadwell]

It seems this debate has pretty much run its course so I'll call an end to it.

I will, in conclusion, add one thought of my own. There is no place on this forum for hurling insults or threatening other members. You all agreed not to do that when you signed up for an account here. If you can't abide by the agreement you made, don't post.