Lens Suggestions for Canon EOS 20D

[Dianna]

Can you all give me some help on which lens I need to invest in if I'm going to do weddings, portraits, those hideous large group shots for work http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_redface.gif , etc.

I already have: Cannon 18-55mm 0.28m/0.9ft
Sigma 70-300 1:4-5.6 telephoto
and an add on Professional Digital High Definition 0.45X wide angle lens

I REALLY want the Cannon EF 28-300mm f3/5-5.6L IS USM but I guess I have to put that one on my wish list.

I'm looking at a Phoenix 28-300mm f/4.0-6.3 High Powered Wide Angle Zoom Lens or a Sigma28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 Macro.

I also need a flash that will work for weddings and portraits and those hideous LARGE group shots.

I'm still learning and don't really know what I need so ALL advise is welcome. Had my camera since April.

Thanks in advance!

[condyk]

Hi Dianna

Welcome to the Forum.

Sorry to say this, but I think you may be surprised by the lenses you may need to replace to have kit of the quality needed for weddings or professional portrait shooting. Do you have a budget in mind to help people make recommendations?

Any item that calls itself a 'Professional Digital High Definition 0.45X wide angle lens' is usually of an inverse quality to its title ... unfortunately :( BUT you do have a damn fine camera there and that is a great start :D

Hope we can help ...

[blue_max]

Can you all give me some help on which lens I need to invest in if I'm going to do weddings, portraits, those hideous large group shots for work http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_redface.gif , etc.

I already have: Cannon 18-55mm 0.28m/0.9ft
Sigma 70-300 1:4-5.6 telephoto
and an add on Professional Digital High Definition 0.45X wide angle lens

I REALLY want the Cannon EF 28-300mm f3/5-5.6L IS USM but I guess I have to put that one on my wish list.

I'm looking at a Phoenix 28-300mm f/4.0-6.3 High Powered Wide Angle Zoom Lens or a Sigma28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 Macro.

I also need a flash that will work for weddings and portraits and those hideous LARGE group shots.

I'm still learning and don't really know what I need so ALL advise is welcome. Had my camera since April.

Thanks in advance!


I think it will be quickly apparent that the expense of the body is barely the start. You really need to study the stickies at the beginning of the thread. They will give you plenty of background information. As the body is only one part of the equasion, cutting corners on another will just leave you dissatisfied. If you are shooting weddings commercially, you need to buy the best avaialable. If it's just for fun, you may have spent too much on the body and not left a budget for the lenses. If that is the case, it may pay you to sell now and cut your losses and get a G6 or Pro1. If you really know what you are getting into, then consider the 50mm 1.8 or 1.4 and make a sound start. You will need more (lots more), but it gets you up and running and gives you good quality. You can buy cheaper flash units, but you may end up buying better because of the better control. There are also cheaper third party lenses from Sigma and Tamron. Some are very close to top Canon quality. You need to research very well though. Hope you don't give up and become a regular. Stick with it and it will be a great journey.

Graham

[Dianna]

Thanks both of you. Yes I realize this is only the beginning. The Macro I have was a through in by vendor for small charge when I purchased the camera. I took it on a trip out west and actually got some pretty awsome shots with it. One made it in the top ten of Photoshop Elements last Challenge. THEN I got the 70-300 lens before leaving Vegas, wish I had had it when we started the trip. It was great for some more landscape shots but mainly, it was great for the action shots at softball games. (Actually had a job taking action shots for a tournement fall into my lap on July 1st. Since then I've been almost overwhelmed with customer requests/questions. Virtually started a business overnight.)

I don't currently do weddings but I do want to start doing them professionally. I am literally just getting started. I'd like it to grow into a business I can rely on for main income. I can't invest thousands of dollars right now so if you could make recommendations on some good starter lens I'd appreciate. I'd like to stay under $4000 right now but don't want to spend it all on a couple of pieces of equipment either.

I LOVE MY 20D!

[condyk]

I would choose from the following items, which combine quality and value.

Tokina 12-24 or Canon 17-40mm f4 L ... or Canon 10-22mm wide angle if you think the large groups will be in a very long line!!
Sigma 24-70 2.8 DG Macro or Tamron 28-75 2.8 standard zoom
Sigma 70-200mm 2.8 or Canon 70-200mm 2.8 IS L longer zoom
Kenko Pro 300 1.4 extender (TCon) or Canon equivelent
Canon 50mm 1.4
Canon 85mm 1.8
Sigma 105mm, 150mm or Canon 100mm Macro (for wedding detail shots)
Sigma 500 Super or Canon 580 EX flash

Shop around as prices can vary greatly. B&H is a good option for baseline prices and online or walk in purchases.

There are a number of people here who are better qualified to make suggestions as they work in the fields you are specifically interested in, but I think the above are all very sound options. Don't be afraid to return/exchange a lens if you feel it is less than optimal in performance: there can be quality issues across all brands and you want sharp, contrasty, colourful and 3d images.

A good tripod and head will be needed, which others may comment on from their better experience. I have a lightweight but solid Feisol Carbon Fibre tripod and Manfronto 488 RC2 ballhead and am very haPPY WITH THE QUALITY and portability and value. bUT THESE ARE BRAND NEW TODAY AND NOT HAD CHANCE TO DO ANYTHING SERIOUS BUT MOUNT MY GEAR AND PLAY. sUPERb value combination (apologies for capitals!!)

You will also need several CF cards. I would get 4 or 5 x 1GB Sandisk Ultra II. A good bag to fit everything in: Lowepro is an excellent brand.

For post processing then you may want to ensure you computer has the power necessary to quickly load and process images. Adobe Photoshop is the default for image processing but Photoshop Elements will be fine for now.

Check out this thread too:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=81062

[buze]

I'd like to add my own experience to this; I got the 350D fairly recently (similar to 20D), and my view on picking lens was to buy a "super zoom" after lots of head scratching and pixel peeping.
I bought it because :
1) I didn't want to change lens. I had enough learning the camera as it is. The sensor sensitivity, the autofocus, the RAW path etc are all to be learned.
2) I didn't know what "focale length" I might prefer. Was I a WA guy, a "normal" guy or a "tele" guy ? if you don't come from the traditional SLR world these numbers like "85mm" or "200mm" means absolutly *nothing*
3) I didn't mind trading some quality for getting the versatility I mentioned.

As it turns out, it is a very good lens, I'm still having terrific fun with it, and I taught me where, and in which order, I wanted to get my "refinements" lens. It's still in my bag too. it's about 1/10 of the combined weight of the 18-50+70-300 (ot sny other combination of two) I have! If I got out in plain daylight and don't want the camera bag, here it comes.

So my advise is to ignore the snobs, get one of these "super zoom" in EF-S format (they are much smaller), and go play, and then come back and start refining, if you like. Oh, get a 50mm f1.8 mII too. Steal it if needs be :D

[lkorell]

The ability to shoot weddings does not mean you only have the gear to shoot weddings. You need to have a complete plan of action. If you are now unclear of what gear you need I recommend working as an assistant or second shooter wtih an established pro who shoots lots of weddings.

If you plan on making it into a business you need a lot of things.

1. business plan
2. contract
3. fast computer with excellent display
4. tons of software (not just photoshop)
5. insurance (gear & liability)

Ok, there's lots more but for gear:

Minimum 2 perfectly working camera bodies (trust me they fail)
Minimum 2 perfectly working flashes (trust me they fail) - 580EX is best for 20D
Minimum 1 wide angle prime or zoom (for zoom I recommend 17-40L or 16-35L ($$$$)
Minimum 1 standard or wide fast prime for low light (24L,35L, or 50 1.4)
Minimum 1 portrait lens - can be 24-70L, 50 1.4, or 85 1.8
Optional but valuable 70-200 2.8L for times when you are not allowed any closer than the back of the church
Lots of CF cards
Lots of extra camera batteries
Lots of rechargeable AA's for flash
A flash diffuser (Sto-fen omnibounce or better Gary Fong lightsphere II)

That's a start, but if you aren't totally prepared, you will be uncomfortable when dealing with the unexpected. Weddings have a flow but they are a totally uncontrollable event. When you have everything to cover yourself for all situations you will really have fun at the wedding!

Hope that helps,
Lou

Remember: Just getting by is ok but at least 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class!

[Dianna]

Thanks guys Looks like I have a lot to think about. Condyke would you mind terribly telling me what kind of shots I would use each of the lenses you listed for? You did on a couple. I really need a Photography class to learn the lingo but there is not one offered in my area.

Lou, I am pretty passionate about getting the right shot and perfecting it digitally before I let my customers see them. Makes my husband and sometimes the subjects furious. I don't plan to start out with huge $$$$$$ weddings, just the simple ones. Up to now I've done only landscapes and family things but when the request for action shots came out of nowhere I had to act fast.

Looks like your are a "C" personality, always prepared for anything. That's a great way to be.

Thanks again

[lkorell]

C personality? Wow, that's a new one for me. I'm always told I'm a type A. :)

You know, a lot of people who start in weddings think that because they are starting with the lower budget ones that the demands are less than the higher priced kind. It isn't so. A bride's wedding who is paying $1500 is just as important to her as one who will pay $10K. It is their dream day. I always remember that and that's why I make sure I can deliver what I know they will want.

The other thing you mentioned was the demand for action shots. In the sometimes very tricky lighting and logistical situations at weddings, fast focusing zooms or primes and sometimes 1.4 apertures will get you the shot.
The optics on most lenses today are pretty darn good, but it's the extra stuff certain lenses can do that make a big difference. Nice backgrounds and low light ability come to mind here. also it's nice to have the versatility. But with that said, there are plenty of photographers who can do a super job if they have to with one lens! I've spoken with many who have done a whole wedding with a 50 1.4 or a 24-70L. It can be done.
If you have both you're covered - doesn't mean you have to use both. ;)

As for the duplication of equipment, you must have backup for all of your critical gear. The lack of that is not going to be a workable excuse for not getting the important shots. So, while my list was long, it is really a very typical list for making sure you CYA and have way less of a bumpy ride in being a wedding photographer. I hope that intent was clear and not taken the wrong way.

Lou

[condyk]

Lou has made some really great suggestions and solid points based on experience ... and having back up gear is something I forgot. As to my suggestions:

A. Tokina 12-24, Canon 17-40mm f4 L, or Canon 10-22mm wide angle

A wide angle gives a wide angle of view and so you fit more into the frame. You will get more people into frame the wider you go. A 10mm will get more into frame than a 17mm or a 500mm, etc. So, all the suggestions will give great results and so I would choose on price and get the Tokina. Wide, but not as expensive.

B. Sigma 24-70 2.8 DG Macro or Tamron 28-75 2.8 standard zoom

Both lenses cover similar ground to the fixed focal lenses I mention below and that Lou mentions. A zoom just gives more flexibility for framing. You can cover, say, the 24-70mm range with three primes but then you need to put them on and take them off. Quality is higher often with a prime. It's whether the extra quality is worth more than the extra flexibility. I added in the primes as well so you can choose as required. The standard zooms will cover a lot of what you might need: couples, small groups, candid shots for a reasonable distance, etc.

C. Sigma 70-200mm 2.8 or Canon 70-200mm 2.8 IS L longer zoom

The longer zoom is for distance shots, as with the standard zoom. 2.8 allows more flexibility when light is not bright, i.e. indoors at the back of a church for example. The SIgma is great value and loses nothing on quality. The Canon has image stabilisation which minimises handshake at longer focal lengths so helps you get more keepers. Blurred shots are often due to handshake. If you can afford it I'd get the Canon IS, but you can use the Sigma on a tripod and get the same results.

D. Kenko Pro 300 1.4 extender (TCon) or Canon equivelent

Both offer great quality but the Kenko is half the price! The TCon is used to extend the range of your 70-200mm x 1.4. You get more zoom if you need it. You lose a stop of light so your 2.8 lens becomes a f4. Just adds flexibility in your bag and not essential.

E. Canon 50mm 1.4 and Canon 85mm 1.8

Quality prime lenses for portraits. Lou offers more expensive options.

F. Sigma 105mm, 150mm or Canon 100mm Macro

Quality Macro lenses for very close up shots of details, such as flowers, and all the wedding 'stuff' like register, rings, whatever. Basically a high quality prime lens that allows you to get very close to the subject.'All you subjects will be static rather than moving so I would go with the cheaper 105mm. You could get away without a Macro and use the close up capabilities of the standard zoom.

G. Sigma 500 Super or Canon 580 EX flash

Flash options ... and as Lou says you will need a back up. The Canon is a great flash but the Sigma is half the price and loses little as far as I can tell. Others who understand flash can advise on which to choose. The cheaper Canon flashes can be considered too.

H. Bodies

You don't necessarily need a second 20D ... a second hand Rebel/300D would do the job perfectly well should there ever be a problem with the 20D. Better to have the saME BODY FROM A HANDLING POINT OF VIEW (ooops!) of course. You can also have one lens on one body and a second lens on the second one, to give shooting flexibility moment by moment.

If you're running a business then spending forever perfecting a shot isn't an option as time is money. You need to be able to shoot for minimal post processing. If you spend ages on each shot it can imply the original isn't good enough or you're over elaborating. Clean, sharp, 3d shots right out the camera is what you will need. The wedding shots will have more chance of remaining timeless the less they are messed around with.

Seems you have a lot of research to do because, as Lou says 'A bride's wedding who is paying $1500 is just as important to her as one who will pay $10K. It is their dream day'.

[Dianna]

Hey thanks a lot both of you. I fully agree with you on the lower cost wedding versus the high priced one. A bride is a bride and they all want perfection. A cermony/reception that lasts only a couple of hours with 50 - 200 guests is more manageable for one person than one that lasts all day with mutiple events and the entire town is invited.

I really appreciate the tips on the equipment. Guess I've got a lot of decisions to make. If you think of any thing else I need to consider please drop me a thread.

:confused: ...but I'll get there...keep me in your prayers.

[csnudelman]

I would like you to consider a couple of things. At ball games, news conferences, the front line of a war, serious professional nature study, for major publications, et. the photographers that make their living with a camera use Canon (mostly) or Nikon, not Sigma or Tamron. WHY? If Sigma is so compatiable with Canon why do the focusing and zooming rings of the Sigma operate in the reverse direction of Canon's lenses? Why do Sigma lenses often need to be 'rechiped' to work correctly? One size may fit all but it dosen't fit all well. The Sigma Super 500 (which I considered buying at one time) may work well as a single flash but there has been compatibily problems in multi-flash set-up with Canon EX flashes. Hold the Super 500 in one hand (as I did) and the EX550 (now the EX 580) in the other and see what you think about fit, finish and parts quality. Oh, something you may wish to consider, the fastest and most acurate mode of AF on the 20D only works with a f/2.8 or faster lens.

[lkorell]

When I got my first 20D I really wanted the 580EX but it wasn't readily available and I didn't think the price was too good either. So I decided to cut corners and buy the Sigma 500. It's a very nice flash and it can do a good job, but it is not quite in the same league as the Canon 580EX. When I decided to go for the 580 I brought it to a wedding and was totaly blown away by how much better it handled exposure. It recycled faster and the batteries lasted longer. If you get the Gary fong Lightsphere for the 580, it also produces very nice diffusion and it stays on the flash tightly as opposed to anything for the Sigma.

I'd like another one, but for now my Sigma is my second flash. If you can afford it make the 580EX your choice for the 20D. They really were designed to work very well together.

Lou

[Dianna]

Actually I'm one of those that has a mindset you should always by the all equipment from the same manufacturer on equipment like this. But me being fairly new to something other than a point and shoot type camera, I took the advise of a camera store owner and bought the Sigma. The Sigma 70 - 300mm is good but since I've never used the Cannon version I can't compare. This is why forums like this are great! I won't buy anything else without checking here first..

[S230]

Actually I'm one of those that has a mindset you should always by the all equipment from the same manufacturer on equipment like this. But me being fairly new to something other than a point and shoot type camera, I took the advise of a camera store owner and bought the Sigma. The Sigma 70 - 300mm is good but since I've never used the Cannon version I can't compare. This is why forums like this are great! I won't buy anything else without checking here first..
Hi Dianna. My personal advise is to team up first and maybe even be an apprentice with a current photographer for a while. This way, you would know what common gear you would require. Also, taking photos isn't always the toughest part but the post processing can be as much a challenge. There are many traditional photographers that hung up their towel because of the digital age and especially the competition. If you plan on making this your primary income, I would put that thought on hold. I also suggest you check out postings by Bloo Dog on this forum. I really love his postings! Lots of info from his postings and they are really interesting. :)
Just to give you an idea of backup, the last wedding I've done was with 4 photographers myself included, armed with full gear (self sustaining). 2 Canons and 2 Nikons. We all had our own lens and position and style.

**(And to answer a related question from someone's posting on this forum, uncle Fred tried showing off his camera. We noticed and pulled out our shiny white 2.8 L lens, we never seen him with a camera throughout the day!)... lol...

We all have personal backup drives plus every break, we cross synchronize the data on it. I find that many photographers rely on that one tiny CF card. What happens if it fails? We don't take these chances so it's part of our routine to backup while we photograph. I included the above paragraph to show you that people DO look at what equipment you use. This is silly because people always have a perception that if you have a super camera, you must be good. NO. A true good photographer can take good photos even with a point and shoot camera.

Weddings are pretty serious to the B&G so careful planning needs to be done. You need to consider that sometimes equipments are NOT the only thing that can fail. Photographing alone can be a challenge. You cannot physically be in two places at once. or what if your car breaks down or you did not feel well that day? Unforunately reality is that the wedding still goes on and would be a disaster if there was no photographer.

I hope I did not scare or disappoint you. Just do some digging and if you are truly in love for it, go for what you heart tells you. Just be prepared and you won't be left surprised. I love doing weddings not for the money but for the happiness and results. It is a special moment that people cherish and I am happy to be a part of it.

[CyberDyneSystems]

....If Sigma is so compatiable with Canon why do the focusing and zooming rings of the Sigma operate in the reverse direction of Canon's lenses? ...

Focus rings on All Sigma lenses I have used turn in the same direction as Canons..
This is an often repeated misconception posted ad nauseum on the internet with apperently no actual use to back it up.

If there is a single Sigma lens that has the focus ring working in the contrary direction to that of Canon lenses I'd be interested in the model.

As for Zooming.. this is true, It actually varies from one Sigma lens to Another.. but Sigma lenses do tend to zoom with a ring turning the opposite direction of Canon.. (probably 80% or more)

However. so do Nikon lenses, and many Minolta and Pentax. (perhaops all?)

Sigma simply went with the "Nikon" rotation direction in there designs.. it was Canon that "had to be different".

If you look closely at Sigma lenses it is clear that they have been emulating the Nikon lens aesthetic. For Sigma to chose to emulate Nikons Zoom ring direction thus makes some sense, at least from the standpoint of consistency. Many photographers prefer Nikon/Sigma's Zoom direction,. but this is simply a 50/50 proposition. No possible way to please everyone.

[csnudelman]

.. it was Canon that "had to be different".





Are you saying Canon should be going the way of Sigma to keep things the same?