Canon cameras as good as Nikon cameras for HDR purposes?

[lsquare]

Before I start this thread, I'm not looking into starting a flame war. Obviously asking a question like this on a Canon forum will involve biases, but I'm still hoping to have a fruitful discussion so that I can learn something from your pros out there.

One of the advantages of Nikon is that with auto bracketting, one can take more than 3 exposures per AEB session. Unfortunately this is not possible with Canon's cameras except the 1D series. For most mortals like me, we cannot afford something of that calibre. Supposedly that 5 different exposures at 1 EV stepping will capture more information and therefore will produce a higher quality HDR with less noise. The problem with a 5D Mark II or any other Canon prosumer cameras is that it can take a maximum of 3 different exposures, but albeit can be set to 2 EV spacings, which can get 10 stops worth of information (+/2 EV is correct right? Correct me if I"m wrong). That's what I seem to be concluding from my research. Would anyone here disagree? If so, what makes you think that Canon's approach is still just as capable?

[jwcdds]

I think if your sole purpose and passion for photography is HDR, then you should really consider going with Nikon instead of a Canon. Yes, there are (rather easy) workarounds to the problem, but if HDR is what one primarily shoots, then why settle with the workarounds?

What many will suggestion is set the camera on AEB. You can then use the thumb dial (wheel) to introduce exposure compensation (-/+) and take 2 sets that way easily. But this still involves movement and even on a tripod, can introduce the most minute shift in the camera position. Fortunately most HDR software can line everything up but still, it's a "workaround".

So save yourself the trouble and go with Nikon if HDR is that important to you. Just my worthless $0.02.

[xarqi]

Just my worthless $0.02.

Seems right on the money to me.

[Saint728]

Can't you just take one picture in RAW and make as many different exposures as you like on the Photomatix program.

Take Care,
Cheers, Patrick

[adza77]

I don't think RAW gives you that many stops of exposure. You can get a little more out of RAW but I wouldn't think more than 10 stops worth.

Must admit, I do find this disappointing myself with Canon camera's. As a software developer myself - I can't see that this would be difficult to change at all in the camera's. (Pretty much a software issue in which even a Firmware update should be able to fix).

As the others have mentioned, there really isn't an option with Canon at the moment in this area. If HDR is going to be high on your list then Nikon may be the better choice.

(Bet you didn't expect to see answers like this on a Biased forum) ;)

Cheers

Adza

[themadman]

I do just fine with 3 exposures from my Canons, but if HDR is all you care about, get a Nikon and be done with it! (D200 being the cheapest of the Nikons that have all the AEB features)

[xarqi]

Can't you just take one picture in RAW and make as many different exposures as you like on the Photomatix program.

Take Care,
Cheers, Patrick

No. If the information for the extremely light or dark areas is not there, it cannot be created out of nothing. Multiple different exposures can address this.

Pseudo-HDR, using just one image, is a valuable technique, but it is not magic.

[DANATTHEROCK]

I have a 40D and it is super easy to do. Of course, Nikon would be easier, 5 shots it will take perhaps. But do consider, true HDR images often require more than 5 shots to cover the full dynamic range. Magazine articles will say 3 or 5 images are all you need. That is BS. Depends on the scene. So... if you do in fact need more than 5 images to capture the full dynamic range, you would be doing the same thing with a Nikon or Canon. I say buy what camera you like, but HDR alone would not dictate my choice. If you can't get 5-8 shots while on a tripod in a timely fashion using bracketing, you have no chance of ever figuring out Photomatix Pro so it is a moot point. Ha ha... Seriously, it is easy to do using the wheel and exp brackets. Under 2 seconds I would say. Leaves/trees blowing, waves in ocean, rare stuff like that? That is what the ghosting reduction is for in the software. Honestly, I don't find it an issue hardly ever.

[Saint728]

If that is the case just buy a 1D Mark III and be done with it. They are getting cheaper by the day around $2,000.00 now and you can do 7 AEB with it.

Take Care,
Cheers, Patrick

[S2K.OGRAPHY]

lol this thread is funny

[dontcallmeash]

I do just fine with 3 exposures from my Canons, but if HDR is all you care about, get a Nikon and be done with it! (D200 being the cheapest of the Nikons that have all the AEB features)

i actually bought the d200 almost expressly for HDR.

...i can take 9 bracketed photos (i usually make do with 5-7 outdoors and 7-9 indoors or at night).

with the canon i have to bracket them myself, which can introduce vibration and misregistration, expecially indoors or with complex patterns like lights on a skyscraper.

i really love the results.

[CW Jones]

hmm I have an xxD series and can do AEB and last I checked a 30D was not a 1 series body... lol

Maybe this is the difference between knowing how to, and just assuming it doesn't?? not to sure.

[HastyPhoto]

nikon is a bad word on there forums, canon rules.

[tiger roach]

AEB bracketing is a great feature, but you can bracket all you want without it. We used to do it all the time. :)

That said though, I have nothing against NIkon, and the AEB advantage could be a reason to go that route all other things being more or less equal.

[krb]

hmm I have an xxD series and can do AEB and last I checked a 30D was not a 1 series body... lol
but only three shots with up to 2 or 3 stops of separation. Other bodies can do more shots covering a widerdynamic range.

[CW Jones]

mine keeps shooting.. If I dont turn it off all the images will be "sets" of 3 if you will. You can go up to 2 full stops, plus 1/3rd stops

[Gary McDuffie]

Pseudo-HDR, using just one image, is a valuable technique, but it is not magic.

This statement needs to be a headline in this forum. The debate goes on day by day, over and over. Pseudo-HDR is not HDR, but a technique that can give very interesting images. They just aren't high dynamic range.

Back to the Nikon vs Canon for HDR question... I take it from the earlier comments that the Nikon will only do one stop shifts during AEB? If true, your range of AEB is obviously the same. It's just the number of steps within that range that is different. There are many in this forum that believe there's no reason to shoot 1-stop HDRs, that 2-stops is the only way to go. I'm guessing you might be able to get finer, more subtle transitions, but I've never tried it.

As for the fact that it is only a software change, that is true, except in the case of slow processing or small buffer in cheaper cameras. I work in broadcast, and we just installed a 30KW transmitter that has 100% the same components as the 40KW transmitter at a pretty good price differential. The only difference in the two models is in the software. Happens all the time. It makes for cheaper production, fewer components to manufacture and stock.

[krb]

mine keeps shooting.. If I dont turn it off all the images will be "sets" of 3 if you will. You can go up to 2 full stops, plus 1/3rd stops
You're missing the point. You have a Canon shoots sets of 3. dontcallmeash has a Nikon D200 that shoots set of 9.

[krb]

Back to the Nikon vs Canon for HDR question... I take it from the earlier comments that the Nikon will only do one stop shifts during AEB? If true, your range of AEB is obviously the same. If dontcallmeash takes a 9 shot bracket that are one stop apart that's 9 stops of dynamic range. My 7D can get 3 stops between each shot in the bracket but since it is still only a 3 shot bracket it only covers 6 stops of dynamic range.

[CW Jones]

You're missing the point. You have a Canon shoots sets of 3. dontcallmeash has a Nikon D200 that shoots set of 9.


AHHHH Got ya now haha Ya somehow I was missing that one big time! Thinking about my test coming up for my next class too much obviously!

[krb]

Thinking about my test coming up for my next class too much obviously!
We've all been there. :D

[Gary McDuffie]

If dontcallmeash takes a 9 shot bracket that are one stop apart that's 9 stops of dynamic range. My 7D can get 3 stops between each shot in the bracket but since it is still only a 3 shot bracket it only covers 6 stops of dynamic range.

I wasn't aware that he could do 9 shot AEB. Sure, we can all do 9 or any other number of shot bracketing, but this discussion is about AEB as the OP posted it.

[krb]

I wasn't aware that he could do 9 shot AEB. Sure, we can all do 9 or any other number of shot bracketing, but this discussion is about AEB as the OP posted it.
The whole point of this thread is whether or not Nikon's ability to take so many more shots in AEB makes them better for HDR.

[kirkt]

If dontcallmeash takes a 9 shot bracket that are one stop apart that's 9 stops of dynamic range. My 7D can get 3 stops between each shot in the bracket but since it is still only a 3 shot bracket it only covers 6 stops of dynamic range.

The dynamic range of your sensor has nothing to do with the bracketing that your AEB is capable of, right? In the context of the HDR discussion, you should make it clear that you are referring to the range of the bracketing, not the DR of your camera. I suppose the question is, how much DR is really necessary to create whatever HDR image you want? Your brain can appreciate about 14 EV or so, so isn;t +/- 2 or 3 stops in a bracket enough?

Here is a plot of the 7D dynamic range as a function of ISO - this is a laboratory measurement of DR, based on a contrived set up, so your mileage may vary in the real world. At ISO 100 you have about 11 stops of DR in a single image. This is probably why Canon don;t find the need to expand AEB. AEB shifts the center of where you use that 11 stop DR, it does not define the DR of your camera.

Plot from:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Canon/EOS-7D

Some people get their panties in a twist over the DXO database, so be it I suppose.

Back to the discussion.

Have fun!

Kirk

[_GUI_]

The Canon 7D allows for {-3,0,+3} bracketing which is quite beter than {-2,0,2} for HDR purposes. However it's too bad that Canon cameras don't allow to configure a totally custom AEB.

I would be happy if the camera would allow to shoot the current exposure setting, plus an arbitrary number of shots, separated by an arbitrary number of EV. For most situations, setting ETTR (max exposure preserving the highlights) on the camera and then do an AEB of 4 shots 2EV apart, is more than enough.

[Kevin]

There is so much more to consider here than whether a camera body will do 3, 5, 7 or 9 exposures in bracket mode. One needs to look at IQ, ease of use, lens selection and lens IQ. I shot hdr for over two years with my 1D MkIII and in the beginning did become spoiled with the 7 exposure AEB, but found myself shooting either 3 or 5 exposures in manual mode 99% of the time. I now shoot primarily with a 5D MkII in manual mode rotating the shutter dial or using a promote control https://www.promotesystems.com/products/Promote-Control.html and still shoot between 3 and 5 exposures, with mirror lockup. I like Canons lens selection over Nikon's and their attention to the tilt-shift market far surpasses Nikon's. Canon offers a more advanced selection of tilt-shift lenses than Nikon and continues to improve on them.
With a sturdy tripod and ballhead done properly touching the camera to rotate the shutter dial will not induce camera movement any more than mirror slap. But, always use a shutter remote as pushing the shutter button can induce camera movement when you least expect it.

[wolfden]

There is so much more to consider here than whether a camera body will do 3, 5, 7 or 9 exposures in bracket mode. One needs to look at IQ, ease of use, lens selection and lens IQ. I shot hdr for over two years with my 1D MkIII and in the beginning did become spoiled with the 7 exposure AEB, but found myself shooting either 3 or 5 exposures in manual mode 99% of the time. I now shoot primarily with a 5D MkII in manual mode rotating the shutter dial or using a promote control https://www.promotesystems.com/products/Promote-Control.html and still shoot between 3 and 5 exposures, with mirror lockup. I like Canons lens selection over Nikon's and their attention to the tilt-shift market far surpasses Nikon's. Canon offers a more advanced selection of tilt-shift lenses than Nikon and continues to improve on them.
With a sturdy tripod and ballhead done properly touching the camera to rotate the shutter dial will not induce camera movement any more than mirror slap. But, always use a shutter remote as pushing the shutter button can induce camera movement when you least expect it.

and don't forget the subject at hand one is shooting. If the dynamic range isn't there to start with, it's just not there. We see plenty of pics like this.

[Kevin]

and don't forget the subject at hand one is shooting. If the dynamic range isn't there to start with, it's just not there. We see plenty of pics like this.
So true, I won't shoot multiple exposures unless I see a range in contrast. It seems to becoming a common occurence of taking multiple exposures on a scene with no tonality range. Usually very obvious in the final resultant image.

[dontcallmeash]

So true, I won't shoot multiple exposures unless I see a range in contrast. It seems to becoming a common occurence of taking multiple exposures on a scene with no tonality range. Usually very obvious in the final resultant image.

so true.

with lanscapes a sunny, blue sky is essentially worthless for a dynamic range.

earth, land, and sea is the way i always see it. if there's a difference between the dynamic range, then shoot away. that's why i love to photograph sunrises and sunsets--when the incredible skies often mean that if i don't HDR the landscape seems underexposed.

with that said, i've found consistently better results with at least 5-7 bracketed images vs. 3.