Nokia: camera phones will soon rival professional cameras

[Pekka]

"Anssi Vanjoki, while delivering a speech in Helsinki, told an audience that camera phones will soon rival professional cameras. Nokia will “revolutionise the market”, and heavy lenses will no longer be needed. All this is expected to happen in the “very near future”..."

http://www.intomobile.com/2010/04/20/nokia-in-the-near-future-camera-phones-will-be-better-than-a-dslr-hd-recording-in-12-months.html

----

Obviously physics and photography basics is something that fellow failed in executive training camp. :) My N900 delivers images in about 1/5th quality of Canon G1's which I used 10 years ago.

[tkbslc]

I hope it is true. I would love to have all the function of my current kit in a pocket sized camera phone.

Of course I certainly don't beleive it..... :)

[chestercopperpot]

"Very near future.."

Could there be a more vague statement? :lol:

[C2S]

Usually I'm optimistic when it comes to advancements in science and technology, but I'm not buying this. I guess the expression "very near future" is rather subjective in this case.

However, I think the image quality produced by camera phones could benefit from slightly larger sensors, whether this would require some drastic changes or not. So to some extent, they may close the gap to the larger cameras.

Then again, the size of DSLRs may also shrink slightly (and the shape of the bodies may also change), if it becomes possible to get rid of the mirror, without compromises. Though, this also belongs to the "sometime in the future"-category, and it would only affect the size of the camera body, not the weight/size of the detachable lenses.

[pcunite]

I think tech will reach a point where quality will be fine in small devices

BUT

There are some creative choices that will not be availalbe and some ergonomic fallouts from such devices.

These two come to mind, perhaps there are more

* Out of focus areas, photoshoping this effect is not fun
* Additional light for creative effect, ever carry a 580EX atop a cell phone? Hand cramps.

[lonelyjew]

Holy crap they've figured out how to bend the laws of physics so we don't have to worry about diffraction and let us get bokeh out of those tiny camera phone lenses.

[That_Fox]

I'd like to see them compare the images from a camera phone to one from the 300L on a 1D mark IV and then we'll see what this guy has to say :D

[AWD FTW!]

MIcroscopic 4/3's haha. It is pretty crazy if you think about the advancements in camera phones. I mean the standard these days is at least 3.2MP. But of course they will only produce the best results in the most perfect conditions.

Who knows. I wouldnt be suprised if we see a 10MP camera phone here in the next two years

[Aijay]

Imagine a phone that had a EF mount on the rear. wishful thinking.

[OregonRebel]

They will just crank up the MP & call it good.

[Mark1]

"Heavy Lenses" have not been needed for decades. However they fail to mention they need better sensors. And I doubt we will see a decient sensor in a phone in the "very near future"

[That_Fox]

Imagine a phone that had a EF mount on the rear. wishful thinking.

Perhaps an 80's cell photo with modern internals and an EF mount?

The brick's name will be revoked and placed on this new monstrosity. :lol:

[cdifoto]

He might be on to something if "rivaling professional cameras" is for facebook only and "very near future" is relative to the length man has been on this planet rather than the length digital cameras have.

[MMX]

I am pretty sure that he will find enough free-cool-in 14 y.o. douchebags who will understand "having the same amount of megapixels"as "rivalling" and show off in front of their classmates playing the "me haz mor megapixelz, me be da bigga gangzta" game, however I don´t think that someone who passed the high school will buy it...

[Devon.Stewart.]

I am pretty sure that he will find enough free-cool-in 14 y.o. douchebags who will understand "having the same amount of megapixels"as "rivalling" and show off in front of their classmates playing the "me haz mor megapixelz, me be da bigga gangzta" game, however I don´t think that someone who passed the high school will buy it...

I lol'd...

+1

[stephen_g]

If you go by the timeline of the earth, 100 years is the 'very near future', camera phones in 100 years could well rival todays pro cameras. My 4mp 1D classis is still holding it down, I can't see myself replacing it any time in the next year or two, unless it dies. In that case, I'll just buy another one or two, I love it.

[RichSoansPhotos]

Pffft, the sony ericsson vivaz is already capable of HD recording, though I am really not into either dSLR or mobile video recordings

[dontcallmeash]

Holy crap they've figured out how to bend the laws of physics so we don't have to worry about diffraction and let us get bokeh out of those tiny camera phone lenses.

yeah, those giant white lenses are just to make the photographer feel better about himself.

[jetcode]

Maybe the cell phone folks plan on taking pancake lenses and turning them into crepe lenses. A 12-1200mm crepe lens with multiple coatings. Heck the coatings might be thicker than the lens I'm not sure but I like the idea and hope I can carry on a good conversation while the phone captures real masterpieces in time and space.

[CAL Imagery]

I call shenanigans for many of the aforementioned reasons.

[FlyingPhotog]

I hope this never comes to pass...

"Big Brother" already fears cameras for many poorly thought out reasons so let's not give the powers that be any more ammunition against photography please.

[jetcode]

yeah, those giant white lenses are just to make the photographer feel better about himself.

Until you try to use one in real time and discover how lonely it is to suck with a giant white lens attached to your camera. Fortunately those around you will never know.

[ckckevin]

i'm sorry, but if the technology for such a senor to improve to rival the DSL of current days. the 100x the size of the sensor from the dslr will be 100x better too, so in reality, there is never a rival! And the fact of some good lens will always better than the small tiny lens from a cell phone. And from reading the link, the thing that they argue will rival DSLR is the HD video. But anyone with decent knowledge should know that dSLR is for taking picture! and video is just a "add-on". So why compare a cell phone's video to camera's video when video is not even the main function of a camera?

The only thing that will rival the DSLR is when the cost of decent quality cell phone camera become so cheap that drives the sale of dslr down by a significant margin, but in reality, i think it is pretty tough

[CAL Imagery]

I hope this never comes to pass...

"Big Brother" already fears cameras for many poorly thought out reasons so let's not give the powers that be any more ammunition against photography please.
Or the opposite: they say "screw it" and realize that photographs won't make a difference and let photographers alone more. Or more specifically, they realize that since the alleged terrorists are probably using their "professional" camera phones, the feds will leave those of us with flamboyant equipment alone.

Or at least is how I'd like it to turn out.

Or, I can stop using "or" to start a sentence.

[nthach]

My buddy has a cheapie Olympus P&S camera. An iPhone 3GS has a 3.2mp CMOS sensor. The Oly has a 3.2mp CCD sensor and a basic zoom lens. You can guess who wins here.

[NorCalNomad]

no they aren't.

his "very near future" must be in comparison to human evolution :p

[jack lumber]

"Very near future.."

Could there be a more vague statement? :lol:
Maybe, possibly,perhaps.;)

[ckckevin]

My buddy has a cheapie Olympus P&S camera. An iPhone 3GS has a 3.2mp CMOS sensor. The Oly has a 3.2mp CCD sensor and a basic zoom lens. You can guess who wins here.

Quality- Oly
convenience - iPhone

[SuperHuman21]

I skimmed through the article...looks like they're only talking about video, right? I just can't imagine them talking about still images.

[James Thomas 1975]

They will just crank up the MP & call it good.

Don't they always?:D

[Jahled]

"Anssi Vanjoki, while delivering a speech in Helsinki, told an audience that camera phones will soon rival professional cameras. Nokia will “revolutionise the market”, and heavy lenses will no longer be needed. All this is expected to happen in the “very near future”..."

http://www.intomobile.com/2010/04/20/nokia-in-the-near-future-camera-phones-will-be-better-than-a-dslr-hd-recording-in-12-months.html

----

Obviously physics and photography basics is something that fellow failed in executive training camp. :) My N900 delivers images in about 1/5th quality of Canon G1's which I used 10 years ago.

Hahahahaha

[NaKiD EyE]

can't wait to see some telephotos at the end of a cell phone.

[FSUnoles]

someone just upped new shots with their camera
http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/first-12-megapixel-sample-photos-shot-on-nokia-n8-untouched/

[MMX]

someone just upped new shots with their camera
http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/first-12-megapixel-sample-photos-shot-on-nokia-n8-untouched/

When I compare it to photos from my old SE K750i the only difference I see that the photos are bigger. It has more megapixels than my Canon 40D but it´s not able to take a noise-free photo even under direct sunlight.

[Jannie]

Please keep this in perspective, to much of the public a professional looking photograph is one that causes them to go Wow, pixels, noise, image quality don't mean much to them if it looks good in a small image on their computer. I am a huge fan of iPhones and point and shoot cameras and have led several workshops, one to teens and one to adults to help them use these cameras more affectively based on what the photographer Chas Narvis is now promoting in his book The Best Camera- is the one you have, holding to the idea that if you have a camera always with you and you develop the idea to use it every day as a communication tool, it can help each individual have fun and make photography a personal life enhancing tool.

I tried an example of how this can be done over a year ago, we were having a discussion on facebook about the potential of using a phone camera so I went for a long walk around my neighborhood with my iPhone and then processed the images in the iPhoto software that came with my iMac and posted an album of about 35 photos on Facebook- Nothing outrageous but what I hoped were interesting enough to get people to look at them.

It has worked, many of my friends now post photos on facebook daily along with their posts to show what they are doing, interesting places they are visiting etc. It has become a new form of photojournalism and I'm a big fan and promoting this.

While yes the photos were nice the of course were no where near what we know as professional and that has no bearing with the people on my facebook friends page bit since most of us don't read many paper publications anymore opting to check out the world on our computer this concept of something good needs at times to be prefaced as something that looks good on my computer.

The noise about the new iPhone that was 't to be found appears to have a bigger lens and a flash. My guess is it's micro sensor will jump up from 3MP to 4MP (Apple like Canon doesn't want to give it away all at once- it will probably have a digital zoom and a few other improvements. Will it be as good as a Canon Elph point and shoot, not even close except for one thing, it will ways be with the person who owns it and all they have to do is get uses to using it.

To me this pushes away much of the low end point and shoot market but makes necessary greater improvement in the 4/3rds market and this excites me.

I also hope along with the improvements in the new iPhone camera that the make it easier for me to type these messages as this was sent from my iPhone which always exhibits some pretty confusing typo errors and corrections.

[MMX]

many of my friends now post photos on facebook daily along with their posts to show what they are doing, interesting places they are visiting etc. It has become a new form of photojournalism

No, it has become a new form of Orwellian society, the only difference is that people are doing it on their own accord.

[ckckevin]

I do see in the near future that phone camera will replace the P&S because of it's convineance, but i don't think it'll replace FF or crop camera though.

[kent andersen]

I think all of you have miss understood this totaly.

What he actually would have liked to tell the whole world is that nokia and canon are about to join together... to put a cell phone into the new 5D. Nokia has understood that most photographers carry their camera with them everywhere, so why not add a cell phone into the camera. The nokia-canon 5D camera phone... with W-LAN, Internet, Games, google-books, office, and off course Photoshop Phone edition. If people are willing to watch videos on a small iphone, why not using the small screen on a 5d to watch youtube videos to. You will also have space enough for graphic cards, enough to 3d video games. Shooter games will get a new dimention, when you actually get points each time you shoot a bird, animal or person with youre camera. The brand "canon" will be a bit more justified when you can use youre 5d in a shooter game. And the best thing, you can still use it as a camera.

So what sounds like Nokia is dreaming about making their phones into pro cameras, is actually canon that is going to turn their pro-cameras into cell phones.

Edit: by the way, I wonder how long time it will take before this post ends up as a cr1 rumour over at canon-rumours :)

[OregonRebel]

The true interpretation of this article is the literal one: camera phones, currently beaten in IQ by "real" cameras, will treat said DSLRs as the competition that they are and take steps to eliminate them. Whenever the camera in a cell phone is activated (i.e. a good photo opportunity presents itself), the phones will broadcast a feedback signal to cause the image stabilizers of nearby DSLRs to malfunction, causing blurry photos and ensuring that the camera phones' photos will reign triumphant. Several defense contractors are helping with the project. :)

[pcunite]

What he actually would have liked to tell the whole world is that nokia and canon are about to join together... to put a cell phone into the new 5D.

LOL, that was good.

[Jannie]

One thing that is getting pretty obvious, and that the media which does use stills is asking the non professional market to provide free images for them in exchange for the credit for their efforts. Cell phones - better cell phones will provide this; for the amateur this is very exciting. I was accused by a friend a few days ago when sending him one of my iPhone shots that he knew how much I've been wanting a medium format iPhone LOL.

[MMX]

Tthe phones will broadcast a feedback signal to cause the image stabilizers of nearby DSLRs to malfunction, causing blurry photos and ensuring that the camera phones' photos will reign triumphant.

You watch too much sci-fi... there´s not even a theoretical way how to (de)activate IS remotely if we talk about Canon. Maybe it could be possible if the stabilizer was inside the camera body (Sony or Pentax) and the camera used WiFi module, however if you held the camera steadily it wouldn´t influence the photo anyway.

[MMX]

One thing that is getting pretty obvious, and that the media which does use stills is asking the non professional market to provide free images for them in exchange for the credit for their efforts.

WTF? :D Company that doesn´t want to pay for newsworthy photos doesn´t deserve them even if they were from a pinhole. I know that for a BFU it´s very exciting and pleasant experience to have his photos published but in long term it decreases the general quality of the media because they say: "We can get good photos by a pro but we have to pay for them, or we can get not so good photos for free. What we choose? Umm... screw the quality, people only care about the content".

So if you really have something that is worth publishing, ask them to pay. You can even register on a web server such as Demotix and if someone is interested in your photos, he will buy them from there (it´s a stock photo server for journalists).

[OregonRebel]

You watch too much sci-fi... there´s not even a theoretical way how to (de)activate IS remotely if we talk about Canon. Maybe it could be possible if the stabilizer was inside the camera body (Sony or Pentax) and the camera used WiFi module, however if you held the camera steadily it wouldn´t influence the photo anyway.

Actually, it is relatively easy to cause modern electronics to malfunction. One way is with EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse), and most modern ICs are susceptible to it. Interestingly, older electronics (i.e. vacuum tubes) are less susceptible to EMP.

Anything wireless is more susceptible to interference, of course, but that doesn't mean that non-wireless electronics are immune. Proper design/shielding helps.

Edit: Here's an interesting link about different ratings, including the relevant FCC one: http://www.idp.net/sysinfo/standardsand.asp

[MMX]

Actually, it is relatively easy to cause modern electronics to malfunction. One way is with EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse), and most modern ICs are susceptible to it. Interestingly, older electronics (i.e. vacuum tubes) are less susceptible to EMP.

As far as I know, the IS is activated with a manual mechanic switch (although inside there is "something" electric, I don´t know exactly what).

[TurboDream17]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/researcher_translation.png

[images by Paul]

My son has a phone that has a 5.2MP camera in it. It can go manual w/ aperture and shutter speed adjustments, ISO and WB adjustments. Very Cute but can it rival my pro stuff? Not a snowballs chance.
Now, I'm not up on cell phone technology but it is really cool to be driving down the road and have him pull out his phone and surf the internet. Guess I'm an "old dude" huh?

[k-lo]

i imagine a new generation of photographers using these at weddings and other gigs. LOL

[MMX]

i imagine a new generation of photographers using these at weddings and other gigs. LOL

I can imagine that someone could use them in Iraq - at least they wouldn´t be mistaken for RPG, unlike current Canon telephotos.

[dmo580]

I'm curious how good the N8 is. I wish a real photography site would review it and compare it with a typical P&S. I think the N8 would stack up nicely against the Canon SD1300 no? 12MP cameras!

When I compare it to photos from my old SE K750i the only difference I see that the photos are bigger. It has more megapixels than my Canon 40D but it´s not able to take a noise-free photo even under direct sunlight.

Trust me, we've come a long way from the SE K750i. The K750i never had the DR of a phone today. I had the K750i and then the W810i. My Nokia N82 blows it away. It's not so much that it's 5MP vs 2MP, but in terms of photos and noise outdoors it does a far better job.

I can imagine the N8 only wins even more. Heck even the N97 which is a 2nd gen 5MP phone for Nokia does a better job than the N95/N82 family of original 5MP cameraphones which were already HIGHLY regarded.

[hal-lee]

In a world where shallow depth of field means nothing and megapixels mean everything, camera phones will soon rival professional cameras.

[MMX]

I'm curious how good the N8 is. I wish a real photography site would review it and compare it with a typical P&S. I think the N8 would stack up nicely against the Canon SD1300 no? 12MP cameras!

I wish they wouldn´t. Real photography sites are for real photographers who don´t shoot neither with Nokia nor with a $170 soap box. Devices like these are for teenagers who don´t need to shoot anything more serious than their friend´s keg stand attempt.
The only thing that happens after mobile phones are reviewed on "real photography" websites is that users of these devices start thinking that now they also belong to the group of "real photographers" and start spamming the galleries with their crappy snapshots, asking for critique while most of them don´t even have enough knowledge to understand it.
In other words; mobile phones and cameras should be strictly separated, as well as their users.

[alessandro2009]

Very funny :lol: if every time i hear similar announce, then obviously does not translate into reality, i could have 1 euro, now i will millionaire. :lol:

[MyLookingGlassEye]

Hmmmmmmm.....
This must be the same "very near future" where robots do everything for us while we're out zipping around in our flying cars & personal jetpacks. ;)

[MMX]

Hmmmmmmm.....
This must be the same "very near future" where robots do everything for us while we're out zipping around in our flying cars & personal jetpacks. ;)

According to some books I have at home, this should have happened 10 years ago...

[teknophobia]

If what I am hearing about the upcoming N8 is true, it should rival most P&S cams in IQ, apparently the sensor will be larger than consumer digicams and F2.8 aperture.

[Brain Mechanic]

Rockwell is currently working for Nokia.

[RaZe42]

If what I am hearing about the upcoming N8 is true, it should rival most P&S cams in IQ, apparently the sensor will be larger than consumer digicams and F2.8 aperture.

It has the same senosr size as the Canon G11

[smorter]

Sounds awesome - sign me up for a pair once they have phones that rival a 5D or whatever!

[MMX]

It has the same senosr size as the Canon G11

Does it matter with plastic lens?

[teknophobia]

It will have a Carl Zeiss lens, and apparently a multicoated scratch resistant glass cover.

[duongng]

i wouldn't bother with a high-res soap bars can take picture , never ever
they said that their soap bars will replace my ( or our ) big , heavy , cumbersome DSLR , but they forgot to mention that it'll happens if megapixel are more important than image quality =))
My 1D Mk II still smoke at these soap bars though , and it's six years old , the technology dated back in 2004 , not 2010
maybe Ken Rockwell just switch from Nikon to Nokia ( they are all " N " though )

[RaZe42]

Does it matter with plastic lens?

Have you actually checked any sample photos? Think before you type.

http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/first-12-megapixel-sample-photos-shot-on-nokia-n8-untouched/

Center sharpness seems good, not that good in the corners. For that price and purpose I don't see any reason to complain. And according to the link they're still tuning it.

[MMX]

Have you actually checked any sample photos? Think before you type.

http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/first-12-megapixel-sample-photos-shot-on-nokia-n8-untouched/

Center sharpness seems good, not that good in the corners. For that price and purpose I don't see any reason to complain. And according to the link they're still tuning it.

Not bad for a mobile phone, but sharpness still sucks - especially when I look at hair or scarf texture. Moreover the sky is still noisy even though it was a sunny day.

[RaZe42]

Give those pictures a little USM and LCE and they'll look just fine regarding sharpness I think.

[supracuhz]

they should just start making cameras with cellphones on them

[RaZe42]

Well yeah they are the biggest camera manufacturer in the world :P

[smorter]

Moreover the sky is still noisy even though it was a sunny day.
Then it matches the 5D Mark II at ISO 100 :D

[ShadowVlican]

http://www.blog-n8.fr/actualites/photos-prises-par-le-nokia-n8-avec-une-bonne-luminosite-01141/
http://www.blog-n8.fr/actualites/des-photos-prises-par-le-nokia-n8-de-nuit-01132/

pics don't seem that bad for a phone camera... can certainly rival many PS compact cameras out there right now

seems to have massive NR but doesn't affect details much (much like fuji's type of DR)

[RaZe42]

Two interesting links with actual technical info about the N8:

http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n8_camera-review-476.php

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1000&message=35171174&changemode=1