Photographing Air Force One?!

[jpbimages]

Is it okay to shoot air force one!?
Will I be attacked by SS and then they run off with my memory card (or more).
is there any way of knowing when AF1 will land or is that just hit and miss?!

[gjl711]

I don't think that there will be an issue as long as your not running at the plane full tilt while it's sitting on the tarmac. I'm guessing that that would get you some attention rather quickly

[neilwood32]

I would rephrase your question - Photographing Air Force One?

Shooting AF1 has the wrong conurtations.

As long as you are not in restricted space or behaving in a strange way, I wouldn't think you would have any problems.

[jpbimages]

good idea neil
I guess i will try and figure out where AF1 is landing.... It may be right here in asheville

[Eric]

Umm.... no it is not okay to shoot AF1

I think just the title of this thread will get SS to attack you. They are awfully touchy these days.

But yes, I think as long as you are not in a restricted area you can photograph Air Force One all you want. If you hiding out with a 500mm lens it may raise a few eyebrows but I doubt they will come running after you demanding you to relinquish your memory cards.

[jpbimages]

could the mods change the name of the thread please ^_^
unfortunately I don't have a long reach lens, I guess I can camp out with my 28-80 and pray for good luck xD

[Willie133]

Get a 70-200mm, stay away from restricted zones... I'm sure as long as you're in an area where it's visible to other public people you're fine.

I just read you don't have a long reach lens... maybe rent one if it's worth it to you?

[lettershop]

There was a story a while back about a press photographer who took pictures of the presidential limousine while the door was open. The Secret Service confiscated the pictures

[bulldogg7]

If you find out, I might be willing to trade my Tamron 70-300 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/423725-REG/Tamron_AF017C700_70_300mm_f_4_5_6_Di_LD.html) for your nifty for a day or two to try it out, I've been considering the 50mm but would like to test it out first.
The Tamron doesn't have IS, has some chromatic aberration under most circumstances at full zoom, but it might get the shot from the Lowes' parking lot.
The "vacation" is supposed to begin Friday, it will probably be a madhouse all over town, but if you know of a spot and want to camp out it might be worth it to get the shot.

Go Eagles!!!:D

[CalPiker]

AF1 was out here a while back and landed at a close airport in Long Beach. Some friends that work in the buildings next to it got some great pictures of it landing and taking off. Also, all of the helicopters that he uses. He also took lots of pics of the SS agents, other military personnel, pretty much anything that was open to the public for seeing.

As long as you are in a public area, you can shoot all you want. The schedule for the President is usually not something they make public until the last minute.

Edit to add: This is how close you can get at the Long Beach airport - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btl8DdHCoNc. I need to go check this airport out more, because I've seen all kind of military aircraft on the runway out there - C-17s, F/A-18 Super Hornets, and they even get B-1 bombers every once in a while.

[FlyingPhotog]

There was a story a while back about a press photographer who took pictures of the presidential limousine while the door was open. The Secret Service confiscated the pictures

Link?

[rodleviton]

As long as you're not using this lens you should be fine :) http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B0013D8VDQ/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_1?ie=UTF8&index=1

[FlyingPhotog]

There should be no issues with photographing AF1 so long as you do so from an area that isn't already subject to special security measures.

I shot this from a public park about three miles east of Sky Harbor in Phoenix:
http://jcbeckman.zenfolio.com/img/v7/p14542439-4.jpg

Some of my Phoenix-area compadres were shooting from one of the airport parking structures:
Arizona Aviation Photographers Web Site (http://azaerophoto.com/forum/index.php?topic=175.0)

[lettershop]

nice capture Jay

[FlyingPhotog]

Thank You...

[neil_r]

Am I right in thinking that AF1 is applied to whatever aircraft the Pres happens to be in and is not fixed to that particular 747?

[FlyingPhotog]

Am I right in thinking that AF1 is applied to whatever aircraft the Pres happens to be in and is not fixed to that particular 747?

Actually, the correct terminology is "Branch of Service One"

If the POTUS in on a Marine Helo, it's Marine One. Army Helo: Army One, etc...

The 747s sans POTUS revert to "SAM" which is short for Special Air Mission.

[neil_r]

How did I know that you would know the answer to that :-) Thanks.

[FlyingPhotog]

How did I know that you would know the answer to that :-) Thanks.

'Cause I'm a "Wing Nut" http://forums.aopa.org/images/smilies/flying/transport017.gif

[bulldogg7]

today's article, guess he's already here, or coming soon
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100423/NEWS/304230033/1009

Those hoping to catch sight of the first couple at the airport will likely be out of luck, said airport spokeswoman Amy Burritt, since the Obamas will likely disembark out of view. If people want to see the plane land, one of the best spots is the Lowe's parking lot off Airport Road, Burritt said.

Lowe's manager Jack Bradt said crowds had already gathered to see the cargo plane land.

[RDKirk]

When I was in the Air Force in the early 90s, I was on temporary duty at March AFB, CA, while the President was visiting Los Angeles. While the primary AF1 was with the president in LA, the backup SAM 747 was sitting there at March.

But I was oblivious to that at the time. I walked out of my temporary quarters and cut between two other sets of temporary quarters toward my car. Suddenly I was set upon by a squad of Air Force Security Police. They spread-eagled me, frisked me (quite unpleasantly), checked my ID and asked me questions... it seems I had unknowingly wandered too close to the unit where the president's alternate SAM crew was sleeping.

I've photographed AF1 (that is, with the president on board) several times. I managed to catch Marine One once as it overflew Bolling AFB taking President Reagan from the White House to Andrews AFB. That was serendipitous, because the Marine helicopter 4-ship that transports the president from the White House to Andrews flies very low and extremely fast.

[bulldogg7]

From WLOS website
He and the First Lady will be staying at the Grove Park Inn. Ten presidents have stayed there in the past. Air Force One is scheduled to touch down at the Asheville Regional Airport about 1:00 this afternoon.
Friday, April 23

[aviator.4.life]

I've photographed it once at Cleveland not too long ago. There were a few parking lots near the rwy, of course they weren't public so there's a chance of getting kicked out. I was passed by a few cops and they didn't mind. Wouldn't suggest standing under the approach. Have fun.

[LBaldwin]

Gentlemen, Just for the record the abbrev. for the USSS is just that. The SS was a group of a different shade. Calling the men and women that protect the President, SS is to me offensive.

And to the OP, it is OK to photograph the AF1. There are many folks who take pictures of it all the time. The only time a security detail will seize your images is when you take pictures of something that is restricted, or classified. The issue with the limo was not the occupants but the construction of the car itself. FYI it has been that way since The Kennedy Assassination. I got to photograph one of President Fords cars, after it was donated to a museum. Nearly all of the commo, bracing, and bullet resistant material had been removed. The windows remain and are about 6" thick.

[neil_r]

Gentlemen, Just for the record the abbrev. for the USSS is just that. The SS was a group of a different shade.

I was wondering why a Steam Ship or the Social Security would have an issue with what people were photographing

[jpbimages]

Thanks for all your replies guys, I had a long 15hour day of lifting ridiculously heavy solid oak tables and riding smushed in a car, yesterday...
Unfortunately I didn't get out there today (I hope YOU did bulldog!).
I plan on going sunday, but only if they release when he is leaving.

LBaldwin- forgive me, I didn't mean any offense, the news tends to be what I follow, "secret service" is all I have ever heard, never US secret service.

[bulldogg7]

I wasn't about to go out there in that traffic today, looks like the local papers had some photographers there...
http://www.blueridgenow.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=HT&Date=20100423&Category=EXTRAS01&ArtNo=423009999&Ref=PH&Profile=1151&Params=Itemnr=1
http://www.citizen-times.com/section/VideoNetwork?bctid=79871929001#/Local+News/President+Barack+Obama+lands+in+Asheville/51731091001/51730385001/79871929001

[aviator.4.life]

The description to the video is worded weirdly. Why did they take the 757?

[jpbimages]

more comfortable... undoubtedly xD

[Andrushka]

The description to the video is worded weirdly. Why did they take the 757?

runway length/space?

[Eric]

Why did they take the 757?

Save on fuel??? Doesn't seem to be too energy efficient to cruise around in a 747 all day with a whole 20 people on board now does it? (Please don't quote me on that number)

[jpbimages]

Runway space is DEFINITELY the answer now that i think about it!
The Asheville airport only accommodates the 50 passenger jets, not gigantic 757's....

[aviator.4.life]

Save on fuel??? Doesn't seem to be too energy efficient to cruise around in a 747 all day with a whole 20 people on board now does it? (Please don't quote me on that number)

Haha the government could care less on saving fuel. Not to get too far off topic read this...http://nycaviation.com/2010/04/21/obama-and-biden-to-celebrate-earth-day-by-flying-separate-carbon-belching-jets-to-the-same-city/

[Eric]

Haha the government could care less on saving fuel. Not to get too far off topic read this...http://nycaviation.com/2010/04/21/obama-and-biden-to-celebrate-earth-day-by-flying-separate-carbon-belching-jets-to-the-same-city/


Way to be green Obama!

[FlyingPhotog]

Haha the government could care less on saving fuel. Not to get too far off topic read this...http://nycaviation.com/2010/04/21/obama-and-biden-to-celebrate-earth-day-by-flying-separate-carbon-belching-jets-to-the-same-city/

They'd be out flying regardless if the boss was onboard or not...

[RDKirk]

They'd be out flying regardless if the boss was onboard or not...

For required monthly training hours, if for no other reason.

[RDKirk]

Runway space is DEFINITELY the answer now that i think about it!
The Asheville airport only accommodates the 50 passenger jets, not gigantic 757's....

I don't know about the 757, but I've seen the SAM 747 aircraft do practice emergency take-offs from less than 300 yards of runway--an incredible sight. Probably not something they want to do as a matter of course, but that scene in "Independence Day" where it takes them forever to get off the ground is wrong.

Also, that scene in "Air Force One" where the refueling tanker's boom scrapes the skin of AF1 and blows up would not happen either.

[Odie23]

Runway space is DEFINITELY the answer now that i think about it!
The Asheville airport only accommodates the 50 passenger jets, not gigantic 757's....


Not too sure, Asheville's runway is 8,000 ft long. The runway at Camp David is 7,000 feet long and they bring the 74 in there on occasions.

[gjl711]

Not too sure, Asheville's runway is 8,000 ft long. The runway at Camp David is 7,000 feet long and they bring the 74 in there on occasions.
A quick peak ar Wiki shows that the 747 needs a bit over 10,000 feet at MTOW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747

The weird thing is that Wiki shows that the 757 needs 9500 feet. That's not all that different.

[jpbimages]

for some reason I thought the 757 was bigger....
I was backwards,
I am suprised they could land the 747 in asheville, but then again, they're trained to land that huge plane and take off from mouch smaller spots (as someone earlier mentioned)... I think obama is in the air as we speak, I can hear a huge *** plane overhead..... and he was scheduled to leave at 1:40

[jetcode]

If you're going to shoot something shoot Airforce 2 ... and sequels Airforce 3 and 4 ...

Jay do you coordinate with the control tower and have them direct traffic to your destination? Your own personal flyby? Or do you have a special big white lens specially tuned to draw auto-pilots to your destination? You never seem to miss!!!!

[Odie23]

A quick peak ar Wiki shows that the 747 needs a bit over 10,000 feet at MTOW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747

The weird thing is that Wiki shows that the 757 needs 9500 feet. That's not all that different.


True, but I doubt that any of out blue & whites are close to MTOW when they're flying state side missions.

[gjl711]

True, but I doubt that any of out blue & whites are close to MTOW when they're flying state side missions.
Probably true.

[Odie23]

POTUS stopped in WV today for the memorial service for the miners who died in the explosion. The runway at Charlestown's Yeager Airport is 6300 feet. That may be a bit short for our 747's.

[FlyingPhotog]

Jay do you coordinate with the control tower and have them direct traffic to your destination? Your own personal flyby? Or do you have a special big white lens specially tuned to draw auto-pilots to your destination? You never seem to miss!!!!

I just try to find the best places/angles from which to shoot. It helps beind dialed in to networks of other aviation photographers. We tend to share intel on good subjects.

True, but I doubt that any of out blue & whites are close to MTOW when they're flying state side missions.

Thought they said in the NatGeo documentary that AF1 never departs anywhere without full tanks in case the need arises to go "elsewhere."

[RDKirk]

Thought they said in the NatGeo documentary that AF1 never departs anywhere without full tanks in case the need arises to go "elsewhere."

However, the MTOW for a 747 includes 400 passengers and cargo. We don't know what the actual take-off weight for AF1 is.

[neilwood32]

Also to be borne in mind is that the engines in AF1 are highly unlikely to be standard issue unmodified items as used in other 747's.

Although listed as unchanged, I would be highly surprised if that is indeed true.

[RDKirk]

Although listed as unchanged, I would be highly surprised if that is indeed true.

I've wondered about that myself. Maybe all 747 aircraft can do the short-run emergency take-offs that I've seen SAM aircraft doing...but I doubt it.

[gjl711]

Also to be borne in mind is that the engines in AF1 are highly unlikely to be standard issue unmodified items as used in other 747's.

Although listed as unchanged, I would be highly surprised if that is indeed true.
Why change them? The engines in the 747 have proven themselves very capable robust and durable. I'm not sure there is much that can be done to improve them.

[Odie23]

Also to be borne in mind is that the engines in AF1 are highly unlikely to be standard issue unmodified items as used in other 747's.



Not too sure what the other 747's have under their wings but the VC-25's are powered by General Electric CF6-80C2B1s.

[mckinleypics]

I've actually been on AF1. My buddy is the navigator onboard. The rule for us was, take all the pics you want (I had a P&S back then but there were a lot of big lenses pointing at the plane). No cameras (or shoes) were allowed onboard though. Come to think of it, no keys, coins, nothing - we had to completely empty our pockets.

[CalPiker]

President Bush flew in to John Wayne Airport (KSNA) four years ago almost to the day in a 757. That airport is not big enough to handle a 747. The runway there is only 5701ft and couldn't even handle a 757 at MTOW. They probably did a quick jump over to KLGB (10k ft. runway) or KSLI (8k ft runway) for a top off.

[Odie23]

Not sure where the boss is flying, but tomorrow's mission is a C-32/757 as well.

[FlyingPhotog]

Not too sure what the other 747's have under their wings but the VC-25's are powered by General Electric CF6-80C2B1s.

Which are swapped out the nanosecond they show any performance below book specs...

For all intents and purposes, AF1 always has brand new engines hanging off her. Commercial jets don't have that luxury.

[neil_r]

Which are swapped out the nanosecond they show any performance below book specs...

For all intents and purposes, AF1 always has brand new engines hanging off her. Commercial jets don't have that luxury.

I am trying to imagine the PR impact on Boeing or GE if the unthinkable happened. There would be one heck of a lot of people praying for a PE finding on that one.

[FlyingPhotog]

I am trying to imagine the PR impact on Boeing or GE if the unthinkable happened. There would be one heck of a lot of people praying for a PE finding on that one.

Didn't you see the movie Neil? There's an escape capsule for goodness sake... ;)

[RDKirk]

I am trying to imagine the PR impact on Boeing or GE if the unthinkable happened. There would be one heck of a lot of people praying for a PE finding on that one.

Well, unfortunately it's not as though the US government can buy a presidential plane from anywhere else.

[neil_r]

Well, unfortunately it's not as though the US government can buy a presidential plane from anywhere else.

I was not for a minute suggesting that :-)

Mind you I hear there are a number of Antonov's going really cheap.

[RDKirk]

I was not for a minute suggesting that :-)

Mind you I hear there are a number of Antonov's going really cheap.

It could come to that. The Air Force is in a bind. They need a new SAM and a new tanker. Boeing is the only wholly-US company that will bid for either, but by law they must have at least two bids and the bids have to be US companies.

[neilwood32]

Why change them? The engines in the 747 have proven themselves very capable robust and durable. I'm not sure there is much that can be done to improve them.

I would guess that there would be considerable changes that I would certainly consider if i were speccing the Presidential aircraft.

Electromagnetic shielding in the event of an EM pulse (IE nuke going off or other EMP weapon) - not standard AFAIK.
Additional power for emergency situations.
Additional protection for the components in the event of attack

These would be a bare minimum of the items that I would look at.

[jetcode]

Which are swapped out the nanosecond they show any performance below book specs...

For all intents and purposes, AF1 always has brand new engines hanging off her. Commercial jets don't have that luxury.

Most folks don't have government pension plans either ... man did I pick the wrong career!

[dontcallmeash]

this is not a free country.

bown down on one knee if there's even a CHANCE our hallowed divine leaders might set eyes on you.

[canonjuke]

i think you'll be shot