What's the Problem?

[MelissaRae]

I have been actively advertising and putting myself out there for about 3 months now. I get a lot of interest, people email me asking for my prices. I tell them I'll charge $150 for 1-2 hours with 20-30 images post processed. I realize this is cheap, and outline that and tell them I'm starting out, so I won't charge them full price.

Photographers in my area charge on average $50-$75 per hour, with $20-$30 8x10 prints and $5-$10 for a 5x7.

Could it be that the "$150" scares them off, whereas other photographers list "$50"... even though I'm actually cheaper in the end, as you get ALL images for $100 to print as many as you like?

Should I just jump right in with the other photographers and start charging the same right off the bat?

You can check out my blog to see my work, perhaps they don't feel I'm worth what I seem to think I am!

http://www.melissaraephotographyonline.com/

[Karl Johnston]

The problem is you pay too much attention to numbers and no real attention to what matters.

Read: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=853041

[MelissaRae]

That is great post, thank you. However, I do know how I want to price, that isn't my quesion. The problem is no one wants to buy me at the prices I've set.

I basically want to know, based on the work I have on my blog, and the lack of clients I'm getting, are my prices unreasonable? It's fine to say "I need to make x amount of dollars" but if no one will hire you, you aren't making anything at all. In my honest opinion (and I'm aware isn't the popular one here) would be to drop prices and make something rather than nothing.

[Karl Johnston]

If you can't cover your costs you'll be Out of business just as fast.

Marketing is what you need to do, justify the price differentiation. If your clients aren't willing to pay for you, they're stupid therefore the solution is; market to smarter clients. Put bigger words on your website to detract the dummies. ;)

In seriousness;

Is it worth paying 27 000$ more for a lexus if I can get a hyundai for cheaper?
but if hyundai is selling 30 grand cheaper for a similar car...why is lexus in business at all? Surely they should lower their prices.

Why would you pay 4 grand for a shot of a building by Vincent Laforet.... (http://www.laforetvisuals.com/#s=0&a=4&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&p=0&at=0)


...when you can spend $2500 on THREE fully prepared canvas wraps of a once-in-a-lifetime shot of a once-in-a-lifetime event during a meteor shower by yours truly? (http://www.karljohnston.com/art/aurora-borealis-prints-collectors-editions/2904869)

Economics. Marketing. Identity and Branding.

[themadman]

If you can't cover your costs you'll be Out of business just as fast.

Marketing is what you need to do, justify the price differentiation. If your clients aren't willing to pay for you, they're stupid therefore the solution is; market to smarter clients. Put bigger words on your website to detract the dummies. ;)

In seriousness;

Is it worth paying 27 000$ more for a lexus if I can get a hyundai for cheaper?
but if hyundai is selling 30 grand cheaper for a similar car...why is lexus in business at all? Surely they should lower their prices.

Why would you pay 4 grand for a shot of a building by Vincent Laforet.... (http://www.laforetvisuals.com/#s=0&a=4&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&p=0&at=0)


...when you can spend $2500 on THREE fully prepared canvas wraps of a once-in-a-lifetime shot of a once-in-a-lifetime event during a meteor shower by yours truly? (http://www.karljohnston.com/art/aurora-borealis-prints-collectors-editions/2904869)

Economics. Marketing. Identity and Branding.

His website is prettier :p

[Karl Johnston]

Exactly.

Economics. Marketing. Identity and Branding.

[Karl Johnston]

What you could do is rearrange your business model.

Charge $20/hour to attract them through the door. Re coop your costs in prints and other accessories. Get rid of a high resolution Disk with your shoots and do exclusive prints with the option of purchasing a high resolution disk.

If you have to make it so that it is only accompanying a certain amount of prints or a package that you know you can expect a reasonable Return On Investment.

there's more to it than competitive price points..if you compete like a commodity you'll get treated like one..attract the kind of people who just want their picture taken, but they don't care who does it, they just want it done. If that's the case you're competing with every major department store (zellers, sears, walmart, the mall photo booth) so you're much better off aiming higher (within reason).

Or whatever you think works best

[sebmour]

The issue is that you have no business plan and just hope to get people to hire you for a low wage.

Low wage is often synonymous of cheap or not a good product. There are plenty of people in your area that probably make about 1000$ per session. It's not about price, it's about value! (I have not even looked at your portfolio or website so do not take this personal)

People will tend to purchase luxury items for the emotions, value and gratification that they get from such a purchase or experience.

IMPORTANT QUESTION WHEN YOU START A BUSINESS:

What makes you different then your competitors?
How do you show that?
What is you business goals for this year?
What profit are you making out of 150$?
What is your real cost?
Are you doing photography part time or full time?
What value do you bring?
Would you hire yourself?

[J Michael]

You need to meet with clients in person and establish rapport. You also don't want to look for clients for whom price is the overriding criterion in selecting a vendor. The answer to price questions is "it varies, you can spend as much as you want... let's get together and I'll show you some possibilities. How's your calendar looking this week?" If you can meet with clients in person you should be able to get your sales closing rate up towards 90%.

[HastyPhoto]

My personal opinion being in the domain name business is your domain name is way too long #1 and #2 the green in your website is very unattractive. Your home page is scattered with different types of photography from portraits to cars to snap shots of cats. Just doesnt look professional at all and it really needs a major overhaul. I'd start with that first before anything. Template monster has some awesome photography web templates. when you get that sorted, post only the very best of your work in your online portfolio and if your not already get on facebook and similar sites and start networking bigtime.

[MelissaRae]

If you can't cover your costs you'll be Out of business just as fast.

Marketing is what you need to do, justify the price differentiation. If your clients aren't willing to pay for you, they're stupid therefore the solution is; market to smarter clients. Put bigger words on your website to detract the dummies. ;)

In seriousness;

Is it worth paying 27 000$ more for a lexus if I can get a hyundai for cheaper?
but if hyundai is selling 30 grand cheaper for a similar car...why is lexus in business at all? Surely they should lower their prices.

Why would you pay 4 grand for a shot of a building by Vincent Laforet.... (http://www.laforetvisuals.com/#s=0&a=4&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&p=0&at=0)


...when you can spend $2500 on THREE fully prepared canvas wraps of a once-in-a-lifetime shot of a once-in-a-lifetime event during a meteor shower by yours truly? (http://www.karljohnston.com/art/aurora-borealis-prints-collectors-editions/2904869)

Economics. Marketing. Identity and Branding.

Touche :p

Thanks!

[MelissaRae]

Thanks to all who replied, you've given me some good insight.

[philwillmedia]

My personal opinion being in the domain name business is your domain name is way too long #1 and #2 the green in your website is very unattractive. Your home page is scattered with different types of photography from portraits to cars to snap shots of cats. Just doesnt look professional at all and it really needs a major overhaul...

Hi Melissa,

I'd agree with most of that.
Personally the green doesn't worry me either way.

However...I'll address a few things others haven't.

Starting with your website address...why the "online" bit. It's obvious that you're online. It's a website.
Getting rid of that will shorten the name significantly.

For me, your home page looks more like an amateur blog rather than a business website.
It doesn't really make me want to go further into your site and it certainly doesn't make me want to contact you.

Rolling Rolling Rollaaa - uggh!
Toyota Corolla Magazine Shoot - much better, but not perfect.
"I did a shoot with Steve G’s pretty Corolla"
Who's Steve G?
You're assuming that people know who he is. I'm in Australia and I wouldn't have a clue.
OK, I'm not going to be one of your clients, but even someone in your region probably doesn't know who this guy is.
Also you have too many images of it on the home page.
Only one, maybe two of the best. This makes people want to see the others.
If people want to see more, put them in the gallery and direct people to that.

"Dontcha wish your bulldog was hot like mine?"
No! I don't.
The Bulldog with the glasses kind of puts me off.
More like something for the family album or Facebook.

The cats -
"Kitties" - "I can't resist sharing pictures of my adorable babies" - again Uggh. Keep comments like this for facebook.
On a business website, nobody cares if they're your "adorable babies"
Also none of the cat shots are particularly striking.

"Sisters"
Nice shots for the family album but that's about it.
Most of them aren't well compsed - hands and feet chopped off, poses not flattering
Again, the commentary "A trip to see my family isn’t complete without a photoshoot for both of my sisters and their friends!" isn't really appropriate for a business website.
None of the pics look like a proper shoot, but snapshots on the fly.
Again too many pics for the home page.
All these comments apply for the Chase and Amy pics as well.
"They, or shall I say Chase, is insanely goofy and kept making faces and doing odd things so I couldn’t keep the camera still because I was laughing so much!"
This bit implies that that you didn't take the session seriously.
I know what you are trying to convey, but it sends the wrong message.
Again, way too many images.

"Jaded"
Some nice pics but too many again.

"Pond Hockey"
I followed Andy and his buddies out to try my hand at some more night photography while they played (or attempted? lol :p ) hockey on a “frozen” pond. After the ice cracked a few times, it was time to get off!

Who are Andy and his buddies? The same thing applies as Steve G with the Corolla.
We can't see their faces, and they're just kids goofing around.
Again, pics worthy of Facebook and the family album, but not a business website.
Also, these appear to be experimental shots, by your own admission, "...to try my hand at some more night photography..."
Why tell this to the world and your potential clients.
It gives the impression that you are not proficient.

Miss A & C
Nobody needs to know they're the boyfrinds nieces.
It's the photos people should be interested in, not your relationship to them. Info like this adds nothing.
Better composition, but still too many bits chopped off and too many pics for the home page.

Tony
"This is my dog-nephew..." - Dog nephew! Whats that all about.
I know, it's the dog owned by your brother or sister.
But again that's the sort of stuff for facebook.
"So so so adorable! He’s a giant (and I mean really giant!) teddy bear. He wasn’t feeling very well in these shots, but he’s all better now and back to his bouncy fun self, I’m excited to take more pictures of him!"
Again, how is this information useful? It has no relevance to a potential client.
The pics aren't that great either - missed focus (it's on his ears) in both pics, and chopped feet and tail in #2.

I'll stop there. It's probably not what you wanted to hear but I'm just trying to be honest with you.

One thing though. Don't point out negatives as you have in the car archive.
"First attempt at car photography. I forgot my tripod, so it was rather difficult with lacking sunshine!"
This indicates lack of preparedness and unprofessionalism.
I wouldn't want to hire you and then have you turn up and say something like "Damn - I forgot to bring...."
Nobody needs to know you didn't have it, so don't tell them. Unless you'd said that, I wouldn't have known.
Improvise. Use a rubbish bin, or find something else that you can use.

You're only young - concentrate on developing your skills with the camera before you develop a business taht you are probably not ready for at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, there's some nice images there, like the ice river, but so many could be so much better. On the same token, there's some that aren't really worthy of being representative of your best work.
Only ever post your absolute best from any session/shoot.
I use this philosophy - if in doubt, leave it out.

I would suggest that a lot of the problem is that your website is too casual and lacks professionalism.
Getting rid of the "warm and gooshy" comentary like I've outlined above will help.
Change it to something more descriptive like "Fun young couple at old ruins."
Then in their album in the gallery include a brief description like "An informal and fun session with Chase and Amy at the ruins of an old factory in Lethbridge, Alberta"
(I hope that's right. I did a google search and that's what I came up with)
This gives more information and is more helpful than "Chase is Goofy" and will hopefully make people want to look further

Also reduce the size of the pics on the home page and, as I've mentioned, the number - you only need one or two.
Make people want to go searching for more.
Use the Gallery to display your pics, that's what it's for. Not the home page.

Have a look at other good photographers websites and compare theirs with yours.
You'll see a massive difference.
Pick only the best bits and use them to improve your site.

Assume that every person going to your site is visiting it for the first time.
What may be obvious to you, probably isn't that obvious to everyone else.
Make their visit enjoyable so they want to come back.

Onwards and upwards.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Ooops - was compiling this whilst you were posting.

[MelissaRae]

Thank you very much for C&C, Phil! I suppose I picked up the casual-ness of the blog just based on looking at others photoblogs, which all seem to have that. Just fun and random. But I guess I didn't think that they also have a main website that stays professional - and I don't have that yet, just a blog.

I chose to add "online" to the end as "melissaraephotography" was taken (by a Photographer in another country, so I wasn't too concerned with that).

Now, another "Melissa Rae" has popped up just weeks after I did, and just 3 hours from me.

With that considered, and maybe needing a new domain name, I might think about choosing a new name down the road and just work on my skill for now, and use the blog I have now as just my fun personal blog for friends and family.

Thanks again for the input!

[Jimconnerphoto]

I agree with previous posters. Number 1 is Your website needs more focus on your target market.
yes, pricing is important. If you expected to pay $10 for lunch were offered a steak for $1.00 or a steak for $10 - what would be your first impression about the $1.00 steak? Your not going to think it's going to be as good as the $10 steak. Your first thought is going to be what is wrong with it.
When you compete on pricing alone that is what your client is asking themselves when they are considering you.
If you sit down and concentrate on your pricing you will find it is likely going to keep you in the red and you like most photogs starting out are not going to stay in business very long.