one eye or two?

[LordSummerisle]

Hi, i was reading somewhere, maybe it was the 20d manual that you are supposed to keep both eyes open whilst shooting, i've always kept just the one open, and was wondering what others do and if there are any drawbacks/benifits with either way?

i seem to get distracted with both open!


i also have a white balance question, i know on the 20d you can set an image taken of a white/grey card for the custom white balance, so i was wondering what white balance setting (if any) does the camera use whilst taking this picture of the card, and if this is the correct white balance why doesn't it use this when taking other pictures?

i know it's a stupid question but these things make me think;)

[robertwgross]

i also have a white balance question, i know on the 20d you can set an image taken of a white/grey card for the custom white balance, so i was wondering what white balance setting (if any) does the camera use whilst taking this picture of the card, and if this is the correct white balance why doesn't it use this when taking other pictures?


Don't worry about it too much.

With some cameras, it has been suggested that you must use AWB to shoot one image, and then set the camera to use that image to extract its future CWB information point.

With some other cameras, it has been suggested that it does not matter.

So, for your 20D, follow the procedure on page 51 and be done with it.

---Bob Gross---

[primoz]

For your first question... I always shoot with both eyes open. Since I shoot only (or at least mostly) sport it helps me follow action which is otherwise quite hard to do with long lens and tight crop. It takes a bit of getting used to but for me it's working.
For WB question. I don't remember what manual says but I always take that shot with auto wb. I never bother with changing camera to P as I think it's written in manual but it's easy enough to hit right exposure anyway :) Auto wb works quite good most of time, but it's never exactly right. At least not for me and at least on 1d and 1dmk2 I always get much better results with wb set to custom then with auto, even though awb is far from bad.

[glenhead]

On the "two eyes" question, here's my opinion.

When shooting a weapon, one theoretically gets higher precision if one keeps both eyes open. Having an eye closed theoretically causes a slight degradation in vision in the open eye, due to conflicting sympathetic processing in the optic center. I've always considered that to be so much bat guano. For target shooting, I always shoot with one eye closed, to better isolate the sight picture going down the barrel, and have been rated "expert" or the local equivalent on everything I've shot. With a shotgun I start both eyes open to sight the clay, but close one eye to track and shoot. When the "weapon" is a camera, I shoot one-eyed - again, I like the visual isolation and elimination of distraction. Maybe with an 8x10 camera you need both eyes to see the whole picture, but when you have a small viewfinder to look through the other eye just provides noise, in my opinion. Edit: As Primoz points out, tracking fast motion with both eyes is much easier. I shoot almost exclusively stationary shots, so one eye works best for me.

On the white balance issue (and I'm by no means an expert here, having just gotten my first digital camera Saturday), from what I've read recently the definition of "white balance" changes based on the ambient lighting. It's the camera's interpretation of what blend of red, green, and blue is needed, given the current incoming light color, to make what a Mark One Human Eyeball interprets as "white". When you set the custom white balance for the existing lighting conditions with a white reference card/t-shirt/whatever, the camera uses what it senses as the amount of red, green, and blue sensor power to say "aha! so that's what white looks like", then uses those values as the basis for subsequent shots.

One site I read over the weekend recommended taking white-balance reference shots in your normal shooting galleries on each CF card - that way you'll supposedly only have to do them once per card (but what about formatting?) The examples given were birthday pictures under incandescent lighting at the dining room table, pictures of your kid's basketball games under the mercury lights in the gymnasium, and pictures in the workshop under fluorescents - the definition of "white" shouldn't change much from one time to the next in each of the above, so you could choose "shot 1" for the dining room, then change to "shot 3" for the workshop, back to 1, then go to 2 when you go to a game, etc. I'm sure someone can provide a better answer, but hope this helps!

[LordSummerisle]

thanks for the replies, they helped a lot, i can see where using two eyes would be invaluable when shooting moving subjects such as sports/wildlife when you need to see all around but on general shooting (landscapes/portraits etc.) it seems that one eye would be ok, ity just hurts sometimes squinting for so long :)

as for the white balance, if i use auto, could i achieve any range of temperatures from the warmest to the coolest when post processing in PS shooting RAW, if this is the case does this make camera white balance of little concern since most RAW files have to be post processed anyway?

[Tapeman]

I think it matters if you are using your "dominant" eye. I usualy close one eye even though I look through the viewfinder with my dominant eye. (left)

[davidfig]

I know someone is going to ask. Which is my dominate eye.

Simple, with both hands open, at arms length, thumb over thumb and index finger over index finger, make a diamond shape between your hands. Point that diamond at something far off and then close one eye, then the other. Whichever eye is looking at the target this is your dominate eye.

I always shoot with my right eye (firearms, cameras), I'm right handed, but this test says that I'm left eye dominate. So now I have to see if I can start using my left and then see if its better.

[ScottE]

It is better to shoot with both eye open (camera or gun) if you have the ability to concentrate on the dominant eye so that you and compose the picture or line up the sights or focus points. Some people can do this naturally, some with training and some find it impossible.

The advantages are that it is better for your eyes and the open eye gives some periferal vision that can alert you to off camera activity such as a developing play in sports or an elephant about to stomp you in wildlife photography.

On the other hand, would you rather your epitath read "He never knew what hit him" or "He died screaming like a little girl".

[Mohawk]

On the other hand, would you rather your epitath read "He never knew what hit him" or "He died screaming like a little girl".

LOTFLMAO!!!! :lol:

Mike

[johnnybfan]

On the other hand, would you rather your epitath read "He never knew what hit him" or "He died screaming like a little girl".

Great line!:lol::lol::lol::lol: I usually only have both eyes when I'm shooting at a sports event and am trying to anticipate the action (re:softball w/ someone making a play on defense). Otherwise I only use my right eye. ;););)

BTW - My right eye is my dominate eye.

[Section 8]

When shooting with optics, you do it with one eye. Unless you are a commando type using a 1X-3X sight, utilizing movement while firing. Using iron sights, both eyes open can be an advantage, but it doesn't mean that YOU will shoot more accurately. Professional pistol shooters (in speed type competitions) generally shoot with both eyes open, but at the same time they are not generally "aiming" anyway. If you were to face them at a target, then blindfold them they will generally hit it. They fire mostly via muscle memory.

Of course this is usless from a camera opperators point of view, since they are using optics. If you want to shoot more accurately and quickly, you need to practice "mounting" your camera, one eye or two isn't going to do anything for you if you are searching for your subject through a telephoto lense. You should be able to place your face to the back of the camera, with your subject in the viewfinder. If the subject is completely filling the viewfinder on a deatailess back ground (cloudless sky, generic foliage ect), it is gont to take practice, because your second eye isn't going to give you any indications where to point the camera anyway. Unless in the case of the sky you just pointed your lense at the sun, in which case you just swore and are now blinking looking at a large green dot in the middle of your viewfinder.

Practice mounting the camera from a non-shooting position. The Blue Angels were in town this week end, and I initially had to zoom out a bit with a 70-200 to find then before they were gone. After 2 days of them practicing/shows on the third day it was alot easier to frame them immediatly at 200 mm from the camera at chest height.

Bottom line: don't bother using both eyes, nobody is firing projectiles. If you are going to move more than a small slow look what you are doing unless you are sure there is nothing around your feet. If there are people around, "people" do stupid things and assume something is wrong.

[Section 8]

I always shoot with my right eye (firearms, cameras), I'm right handed, but this test says that I'm left eye dominate. So now I have to see if I can start using my left and then see if its better.

David-

There is no point to trying that. If you have trained yourself to shoot with your non-dominate eye, keep it that way (though with weapons, practicing off hand with oposite eye is a good excercise). If you use your left eye on the camera (as I do) your face is in the way of the thumb buttons on the back of the camera, and you can't change any settings woth out removing your face from the camera (as the camera is designed for a right eye dominat shooter). Nobody is shooting back and I don't feed myself with my camera so I am not going to change for a few buttons.

As far as changing your shooting preference, don't do it. Stick with what you are doing unless you are doing it poorly, then I would recomend seeing someone about it instead of changing eyes. I have learned to shoot right eye right hand when I was probably 6 from my grandpa who was the only one of my uncles/father who realized I was left eye dominant when I couldn't hit the target much less the back stop my first time shooting. Over 25 years later there is going to be no way that I would go to my dominate eye when under any ammount of stress with out contiously thinking about it.

The only time to switch eyes is if your visibility becomes poor in the eye you are currently using. You should wear glasses when shooting weapons anyway, so one eye requiring less correction than the other isn't a reason.

[Rob612]

Using iron sights, both eyes open can be an advantage, but it doesn't mean that YOU will shoot more accurately. Professional pistol shooters (in speed type competitions) generally shoot with both eyes open, but at the same time they are not generally "aiming" anyway. If you were to face them at a target, then blindfold them they will generally hit it. They fire mostly via muscle memory.


I partially disagree. I am an IPSC shooter with a more than decent ranking nationwide, so I tend to speak by experience. It is true that we all shoot IPSC (ir IDPA or any other fast paced shooting (firearms) sport) by muscle memory but that applies only to stance, trigger pull and grip. That's something that is alway delegated to muscle memory, we don't want to waste time - and therefore points - in thinking about that. A lot of trining gives us the muscle memory needed (just to have you folke have a good laugh, in this country, if we "pro" shoot somebody for self defense we do NOT have the right to any extenuating circumstance by law. We are pro, so in the lawmakers we are all Dirty Harrys... go figure)

To hit the target (that in those type of sports is not a tiny bullseye but something definitely bigger) you need to see it, especially considering that the targets are always at different distances and in different positions. We use to shoot with both eyes open because its important to keep track of the execercise in its globality (fault lines, windows, strings, mag changes and other stuff) and if you shoot one-eyed the risk is to loose the 180 degrees view that helps us to stay in track.

Said so, I don't think that shooting a camera is similar to that. I see, as Section 8 stated, a camera more similar to a rifle equipped with a scope. For that you nedd one eye only. Basically, all this to say that I shoot my camera one eyed :D

[dale65bama]

I go for both eyes open. It is a learned skill to sort of ignore the visual input from the other eye. It works for cameras, firearms, and microscopes (former biology professor). I want to know if I am about to get run down by the elephant, car, ball player, etc - or whacked by a baseball -- having at least one eye open to the world to sense the danger or to know the birds are coming in for my shot (photo or projectiles) is important.

[cerveza4lu]

Wow, I just did the dominant eye test and that was freaky! My right eye had the target on the money but my left eye wasn't even close! It's amazing the things you can learn at this forum.

[nigelch]

It is better to shoot with both eye open (camera or gun) if you have the ability to concentrate on the dominant eye so that you and compose the picture or line up the sights or focus points. Some people can do this naturally, some with training and some find it impossible.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I have spent 30 years shooting pictures and rifles with both eyes open. I think three things are emerging from this discussion;
1) It is a very personal thing, either you can do it or you can't.
2) This discussion about closing one eye isn't quite as simple as it seems. I have one eye open, and if anything happens outside the field of view of the long lens, I am aware of it. If nothing happens, it is as if my eye is closed. ie, I am not closing it, I am ignoring it. Similar, but different.
3) Whichever method you settle on, practise makes perfect.
N

[primoz]

I hope I understood your post right. If I did I partly agree with you, but it's not really what I meant in my first post. I shoot with left eye open because I can see what's going on in field. Shooting some fast team sport is different then shooting anything else. In sport in general or in plane shows for example you usually have one player/plane or group of them going together. There it is exactly as you wrote. But in team sport like hockey for example you have one player to which you concentrate and is filling your frame. But problem is you never (or almost never) know where he will pass or from where he will get puck or ball. So here comes handy to use second eye to follow action so you can predict a bit better where player which you have in frame will go and what he will do.

[Section 8]

I partially disagree. I am an IPSC shooter with a more than decent ranking nationwide, so I tend to speak by experience. It is true that we all shoot IPSC (ir IDPA or any other fast paced shooting (firearms) sport) by muscle memory but that applies only to stance, trigger pull and grip. That's something that is alway delegated to muscle memory, we don't want to waste time - and therefore points - in thinking about that. A lot of trining gives us the muscle memory needed (just to have you folke have a good laugh, in this country, if we "pro" shoot somebody for self defense we do NOT have the right to any extenuating circumstance by law. We are pro, so in the lawmakers we are all Dirty Harrys... go figure)

To hit the target (that in those type of sports is not a tiny bullseye but something definitely bigger) you need to see it, especially considering that the targets are always at different distances and in different positions. We use to shoot with both eyes open because its important to keep track of the execercise in its globality (fault lines, windows, strings, mag changes and other stuff) and if you shoot one-eyed the risk is to loose the 180 degrees view that helps us to stay in track.

Said so, I don't think that shooting a camera is similar to that. I see, as Section 8 stated, a camera more similar to a rifle equipped with a scope. For that you nedd one eye only. Basically, all this to say that I shoot my camera one eyed :D

I am sure you don't wait for the sights to line up perfectly (an aimed shot) on anything with in 10-15 yards, on longer range you can see fast shooters slow down so they are obviously taking greater care in alighning the site even when they claim not to. Of course you have to point the muzzle to shoot at anything with any hope of actually hitting it, but the larger target (ISPC) area allows for significently less precision in placing shots. On multiple shot targets, do you "aim" between shots or are you familure with your weapons movement after firing, and well practiced enough to have the muzzle fall to place an accurate following shot? If you are actually aiming the second shot try shooting double taps at targets with your eyes closed. Don't worry about shot placement, just how close the holes are together.

Removing the rear sights from your slide/barrel and practicing a short range course will also dramatically reduce aiming time when you put the rear sight back on... if you remember to use it less.

The easiest way to practice for less dependence on sights that does ot even require live firing, is to mearly choose a target on your living room wall, close your eyes, then point the weapon at your chosen target, open your eyes and see where the sights are aimed at. Eventually you will be able to look at a perfect sight picture when you open your eyes. Guess what? You will be able to shoot at a target where you know where it is, but do it blind folded. Its actually not that diffacult.

Learn to rely less on the sights and the next time you need to qualify a post on this forum you might be able to add "champion" in it.

[Section 8]

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I have spent 30 years shooting pictures and rifles with both eyes open. I think three things are emerging from this discussion;
1) It is a very personal thing, either you can do it or you can't.
2) This discussion about closing one eye isn't quite as simple as it seems. I have one eye open, and if anything happens outside the field of view of the long lens, I am aware of it. If nothing happens, it is as if my eye is closed. ie, I am not closing it, I am ignoring it. Similar, but different.
3) Whichever method you settle on, practise makes perfect.
N

No, It is not "better".

The end result is an accuratly placed projectile, not being able to see more while doing it. There is no increase in accuracy gained by shooting with both eyes open. As for those claiming to see what is going on around them, you only "see" out of one eye. So you are looking through the optics with one eye, and HALF of what you would normally see with the other, as the weapon cuts off percisely half of your normal field of view.

As someone said eailier, they keep their eyes open incase of dangerous animals. I hope they are aware that you will see the elephant coming to stomp your ass 50% of the time.

You are not "seeing" as much as you think that you are.

There is an advantage with both eyes, but neither is "better" when evaluating the primary function of the activity.

[ScottE]

Anyone who keeps both eyes open is well aware of the field of view that is blocked by the camera.

If you can concentrate on the dominant eye, the results of the photo you take are not going to be any better than what you would get with one eye closed.

The better part comes if you have been concentrating on the shot for several minutes and then put the camera down and start walking. The eye that was closed will often be bleary for several minutes until it recalibrates (or whatever it does) to return to normal bi-ocular vision. If you keep both eyes open this does not occur.