A recommendation for Italy (or Greece)

[faizanrashid]

Hi,

I'm planning a trip to either Greece (mostly the ancient areas, maybe one of the Islands at most) or Italy (classic Rome, Venice, Florence, Milan combo) in mid July (peak season, I know, but don't have a choice in terms of vacation days off from work).

It seems though that after the rising unrest in Greece (due to the economic situation), I will most likely settle for Italy, but both of these places have a classic European feel to them which is what interests me and my wife. Having said that, I'd like to know if my existing equipment is adequate for these trips:

- Body: Canon 450D
- Lens: Kit Lens (18mm-55mm with IS) + 50mm 1.8
- No other filters, not even a hood.
- Tripod (unknown brand, but does the job well).

I just got the above set about 2 months ago and have been playing, experimenting and learning since then. I don't really have a budget to enhance the above, but was thinking maybe I could squeeze in either a CPL Filter, an ND filter (maybe both?) or perhaps even a cheap zoom lens like the Canon 55-250mm. The most I can spend in total is USD 300. Photographic equipment is very expensive here, buying used is rare, ordering online is risky due to customs and I cannot rent locally because of the lack of any rental places in existence for non-professionals like me. For the kind of trip that I am undertaking i.e. vacation trip what do you recommend I do (and not necessarily buy). Do I stick with what I have? Would 18mm be sufficiently wide for the narrow streets of Venice and Italy? Please keep in mind that I am a hobbyist at best, not a photographer. I just have a passing, albiet growing, interest in this field therefore investing in lenses or any equipment is not always easy.

Thanks for listening.

[ameerat42]

Hi Faiz... On your 1.6 crop sensor your 18-55mm will be 28mm-88mm equivalent in 35mm format. Though slightly wider would be nice, I've travelled to Venice and have taken lots of good shots with a 28-200mm in the old 35mm film days. Inside buildings is where wider would be an advantage, but you wouldn't be too badly off with what you've got. Take a few shots and stitch them together if necessary (as I've also done). Unless you've got real issues with noise at high ISO settings, I'd lose the extra weight of the 50mm/1.8 for the trip. On my several trips to Europe, (Venice, Rome, Florence, parts of Greece, London, Belgium) I have needed wide angle much more than telephoto, but sometimes the odd focal length of about 200mm (35mm equiv) would have been handy - though not critical. This is what I have found for myself, and I have answered you because your aims sound pretty similar, as you have stated them, to what mine have been. In addition, do consider taking some method of achieving some modest macro capability, especially inside museums, etc. Be very wary of using a flash in such places, though. However, do await advice from other forum members. Am.

[faizanrashid]

Ameerat, thanks for your advice. I've read about how flash is a no no indoors in museums etc (and I don't have external flash anyway), which is why I'll be taking the nifty along. I am aware of the drawbacks of my sensor being 1.6 crop, but feel it has sufficiently worked outdoor most of the time for wide shots, though panning is an excellent idea that I had not thought of or considered. Also, noise, at least upto ISO 800 is no issue at all from the numerous shots I've taken so far.

[ameerat42]

Faiz. (Don't forget the macro part.) I don't know if you've been to these places before, but I have been a few times over the past 20 yrs or so. Increasingly there has been a tendency to restrict and even BAN photography in some places - like museums - over the years. Just bear that in mind, and there's no use trying to argue with the local authorities in such places. There have been times where I have just have had to shut up and put the camera in its bag. Oh, well. Better you know what to expect than get a rude surprise. Am.
PS. If your camera has a pop-up flash, make sure it is not set to pop up automatically in low-light conditions.

[SOK]

OP,

I reckon you've answered your own questions;

For the kind of trip that I am undertaking i.e. vacation trip what do you recommend I do (and not necessarily buy). Do I stick with what I have?

...

Please keep in mind that I am a hobbyist at best, not a photographer. I just have a passing, albiet growing, interest in this field therefore investing in lenses or any equipment is not always easy.

18mm will be fine. It not, get creative!

Take both your lenses (the 50 is compact and weighs almost nothing). Be creative with what you have, but don't stress about it...enjoy your holiday!

For what it's worth, here's a fairly relevant thread (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=729487) by someone who travelled to Australia with the exact setup you are considering. He took some pretty great shots...

The only gear you might want to consider is a cheap, light travel tripod. A must for night-time cityscapes!

[faizanrashid]

SOK, thanks for the link, those are stunning images given its only Kit + nifty. It gives me faith that greatness can be achieved (if I can get the tools to work proper) Do you think polarizers are of any value in a place like Italy? That's possibly the only thing I can think of investing in with such a limited budget. Also I'm thinking of getting a gorilla pod instead of a travel tripod. It did wonders for me on my Swiss trip during the winter (though that was a different camera - P&S).

[SOK]

I would (and do!) take a CPL when traveling. You never really know when it will come in handy, but there will plenty of times where you'll want to saturate skies, cut glare off water, buildings, marble statues etc.

You're fortunate in the sense that both your lenses can share a 58mm filter, which is a reasonably cheap size.

A Gorillapod would be perfect.

[faizanrashid]

I think the nifty is a 52mm, not 58.

If I do buy a CPL filter it will only be for the Kit Lens.

[bjannsen]

Definitely bring a CPL - you will find a number of benifits from it. But be sure to get a good one - B & W has been my choice, but there are other good ones. A poor filter will adversely affect your IQ.

I don't know what kinds of shots you like to take, but I couldn't make the trip you're planning without a tele of some kind. I've heard good things about the 55-250 IS lens. I love the compressed image that a tele can give you. It's also a 58mm - so your new CPL would work on it as well as the kit lens.

Be sure to bring your tripod - the most stunning shots are at dawn and sunset. Piazza San Marco in Venice is gorgeous at sunrise. I have a few shots of Italy on my webpage - that may be a help for you, I don't know. I use all the focal lengths that I have, but tend to lean on the longer ones for some reason. I know a lot of photogs that are just the opposite - especially in old European towns. They would reach for their wide lenses first.

I think your 18-55, a 50 1.8 and a 55-250 would serve you well.

Have a great trip!

Ciao.

[advaitin]

Yes, you can most of what you will want to shoot with the kit lens, and the 50mm 1.8 will come in handy inside those museums that allow photography, but you really should carry at least a step=down ring to use the one cpl with or a second cpl filter for the 50mm--reason being that many wonderful things are behind glass and you will need to up your ISO and use a cpl to avoid reflections.

Just a quick example, this is from inside a Spanish built fortress in San Juan. Puerto Rico. 200 year old graffiti behind glass. ISO 3200 with an 5D.

[SOK]

I think the nifty is a 52mm, not 58.

Whoops! Sorry, you are right.

But as advaitin says, you can go the 58 and get a step down ring (very cheap) to 52.

[faizanrashid]

Brian, so that's another recommendation in favour of a long Tele lens. I took a look at your site. Astounding stuff...I don't think I could ever manage to get shots as clear, vibrant, rich and sharp as the one's you've taken. I can also see what you mean by compressed/tight images - those shots in Italy, especially of the leaning tower of Pisa, are innovative, unique yet still recognizable of a familiar sight. I loved it! I will try to work on getting this lens and a CPL filter.

advaitin, thanks also for your advice and the sample provided. It has convinced me that I need to get a CPL and also how useful it can be indoors! Unfortunately my choices with a filter are rather limited here - only managed to find Kenko's.

[advaitin]

Wonderful shots by Brian. Everywhere I went in Europe I opted mostly for wide angle over telephoto, but now I see there's something to be said for using a sharp, fast tele.

I carried a 70-300 on my first long trip and rarely used it. The atmospheric conditions created problems in shots like the one below of Barcelona's Sagrada Familia.

[bjannsen]

Ugh - you're right about atmosphere - a tele will magnify smoggy conditions horribly.

I probably also need to mention that I may be over-reacting to the "landscape = wide lens" notion that we hear a lot of. One of my first reactions has been to grab a wide lens to try to cover what I'm seeing live. But when I use a tele, I can narrow the frame down to a few simple elements that often become more powerful than if I had tried to fit everything into a single shot.

I do love wide shots - don't get me wrong. Maybe I'm just in that season where I try to draw out details more. I'm sure my tastes will change sometime soon.

To the OP I would remind him that these are all just opinions. There's not much that is right or wrong about personal style. Just have a good time - oh and don't forget to eat as much gelatto as possible. My favorite of all time is in Venice.

[advaitin]

Florence and Milan each have a chain gelato place that offers superb treats using all natural ingredients. The name is Grom. The one in Milan is on the backside of the Victor Emanuelle galleria and the one in Florence is easy to find. If you are facing the big Duomo entrance, look to your right. Directly toward the river is via dei Calzaiolli. Walk down that street one block to via de Tosinghi and turn left. Go straight for for a short distance (there are a couple of side streets) and keep your eye peeled for a line of people trying to get into a corner shop--that's the gelato place. There are several in Milan, all you have to do is do a Google sear for "Grom Gelato Milan" and you can map them.

Oh my goodness, since I was there they have become a phenomenon. They have locations all over Italy, Paris, Tokyo and three in NYC.

[faizanrashid]

Haha...I love how this discussion has turned form lenses to Gelato!

A few quick updates. My trip to Italy is nearly confirmed (I have tentative bookings). The itinerary is most likely going to be Rome, Siena, Florence, Milan, Venice, Verona. I am going to buy a CPL filter in the next few days and a step up ring for the nifty fifty. I managed to find a store selling Hoya and Kenko (both retailing about USD 25, while the step up ring is 10 USD). Are these prices reasonable? I've heard there are variations in the filter type (based on quality etc), with the cheapo ones not just ruining the quality of photos but also not enhancing the photos in any way. Any recommendations?

[advaitin]

Haha...I love how this discussion has turned form lenses to Gelato!

A few quick updates. My trip to Italy is nearly confirmed (I have tentative bookings). The itinerary is most likely going to be Rome, Siena, Florence, Milan, Venice, Verona. I am going to buy a CPL filter in the next few days and a step up ring for the nifty fifty. I managed to find a store selling Hoya and Kenko (both retailing about USD 25, while the step up ring is 10 USD). Are these prices reasonable? I've heard there are variations in the filter type (based on quality etc), with the cheapo ones not just ruining the quality of photos but also not enhancing the photos in any way. Any recommendations?

If it was Heliopan or B+W, I'd say go for the quality, but between Hoya and Kenko--either one is about the same--Hoya HMC is maybe a bit better.

[faizanrashid]

Thanks, Hoya seems to be the preferred choice generally from everyone (for the price range). However, I believe there are variations depending on film coating etc. Is there a standard CPL from Hoya that would suit a novice like myself?

[advaitin]

Thanks, Hoya seems to be the preferred choice generally from everyone (for the price range). However, I believe there are variations depending on film coating etc. Is there a standard CPL from Hoya that would suit a novice like myself?

It's the coating that makes the difference. The higher grades usually offer more coatings with superior light transmission and less ghosting, flare, etc. In any form of glass you put in front of your lens, always go for the best you can afford. If I were you, since there seems to be little variety where you are, I'd wait and find a filter in Rome. Don't forget to either not pay VAT or get a form for reimbursement when you leave Italy.