What do you do when there is just not enough light?

[CosmoKid]

So I shot The English Beat last night at a bar/club in NJ called Maxwell's. For one, I will never shoot there again. No pit, it's 20' wide, with absolutely no light.

When I say no light...
- I was shooting as ISO 3200
- 1 body with 16-35 2.8
- 1 body with 28 1.8
- the light that they had on the empty stage before the band came out was the light. nothing ever changed

Shooting AV I was getting shutter speeds only around 1/8. I switched to manual and decided to just stick it on 1/30 and bracket and hope for the best. I was getting nothing more than blurry faces.

I thought maybe I was whining to myself until...
1- The lead singer introduced his sax player as the invisible man
2- after the fifth song the lead singer actually asked the venue to turn the lights up because he couldn't see what he was playing. They barely turned them up.

Add to this that they are a Ska band with a lot of energy (even though they have been around 30+ years) and I couldn't even time my shots to "catch" them being still.

I haven't gone through the shots loaded on my PC yet but I chimped in the car afterwards.

I have to submit these for a pub...
- I basically shot from one angle
- I only have shots of 3 guys in a 7 piece band. The rest were literally in the dark.

I do have some shots at decent enough speed that are just super dark. I guess I can bring them up a bit in post and deal with the extreme noise.

Sorry for my rant but I was just at a total loss. Is there ever just not enough light for you guys to even shoot?

[narlus]

i've never been, but Maxwell's does get a lot of good shows. sometimes you can't do all that much...having something like a sigma 30 f/1.4 definitely can help, but sometimes you need a flash...i do a fair amount of shooting in small clubs w/ no pit so i hear you on the sole angle thing, but you can minimize that a bit by shooting single performers as they turn and move position, so it doesn't look just like one angle.

did you just get the 1st 3 songs or could you keep shooting?

[CosmoKid]

i've never been, but Maxwell's does get a lot of good shows. sometimes you can't do all that much...having something like a sigma 30 f/1.4 definitely can help, but sometimes you need a flash...i do a fair amount of shooting in small clubs w/ no pit so i hear you on the sole angle thing, but you can minimize that a bit by shooting single performers as they turn and move position, so it doesn't look just like one angle.

did you just get the 1st 3 songs or could you keep shooting?


i could keep shooting. problem was i didn't know it until after song 3. before the show started i asked some people if i could get up front to shoot and that i would give them their spot back after i was done. i did an additional 2 songs after the lights were raised and then left. but when i say they were raised...it wasn't by much. sort of like clicking a tv volume up once.

the rules said no flash but some guy who snuck in his rebel was using his pop up. i left my flash in the car like an idiot. that will never happen again. i could have stuck in on the stand, gelled it and triggered it wirelessly and I would have been fine.

i switched to manual to get shutter speeds I needed but most shots are really dark. i will try and recover them in post to at least get a few usable images.

i have shot in some dark places before but nothing like this. live and learn i guess.

[narlus]

when in doubt, push exposure by ~2+ stops, convert to b/w, and hope for the best.

[blackshadow]

When there's not enough light. Either use flash creatively (if you can or are allowed to) or put away the camera and drink.

[CosmoKid]

i should have done the latter, since I couldn't do the former.

[k8et]

yup. i was an avid shooter with my P&S at concerts with a musician I see whenever she's anywhere within a few hours, and she's played maxwell's before. even being right in front of her it sucks.

[Shockey]

Maybe sneak in a flashlight and shine it up at the ceiling, that would add some light.

[CosmoKid]

Maybe sneak in a flashlight and shine it up at the ceiling, that would add some light.


i got so desperate that I actually took out my iPhone, loaded up the Flashlight application, and attempted to use that to add a bit more light.

once i realized that the light fall off was so rapid i wasn't doing anything, i put it back in my pocket.

for 10 seconds i thought i was a genius though.

[CosmoKid]

some samples...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/4600138524_6a6a49f8f9_o.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4015/4599519797_2081048d68_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1356/4600136348_c1ee279cf9_o.jpg


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1103/4600136802_217817b849_o.jpg

[narlus]

those aren't awful.

looks to be standard shooting conditions for the Middle East club in Cambridge :D

[k8et]

those aren't too bad!

Here's one from my old canon powershot A95 :P I believe I shot it in B&W but it may have been PP. this was in 2006. Still I loved that camera because it pushed me to learn more!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/115/251054432_9c026b753c.jpg

(and yes, I want to pull her hair off her face.... it happens in so many photos of her :P this is singer/songwriter Charlotte Martin.)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/48/121401186_c9fc9c0f31.jpg

This was another show the same year, still at maxwells, and the lighting really was just about this red the whole time.

[CosmoKid]

i had the same red lighting. i just adjusted the red channel a bit in lightroom.

i was underexposing a stop shooting at 1.8 and then pushing it a stop in Lightroom. I guess I also could have done some noise reduction (besides Lightrooms). They are getting published though so I guess they aren't too bad.

I did have to take a minute and collect my thoughts and figure out how to get good enough shots so at least I learned something from it.

I am assuming I will have plenty of light on Tuesday for Pearl Jam though. :)

Question is, do I pull the trigger on the 70-200 2.8 IS II, use my buddies non-IS, or stick my /4 IS in the bag and hope for great light.

[mplezia]

Under the circumstances, those look pretty good. I like #1 and #3 in particular.

[CosmoKid]

thanks for the feedback. i posted some more from the set up in the PA picture sharing section.

[tfd888]

Considering the situation, those aren't bad at all.

....
Question is, do I pull the trigger on the 70-200 2.8 IS II, use my buddies non-IS, or stick my /4 IS in the bag and hope for great light.

I wouldn't take the f/4 IS and hope for great light. Too risky. Go with your friend's 2.8 or use this as the excuse to get the IS II :p

[MMX]

Go with your friend's 2.8 or use this as the excuse to get the IS II :p

When the people are moving, your exposure shouldn´t be longer than 1/100 s. If they move during the exposure, no IS will help you.

[tfd888]

When the people are moving, your exposure shouldn´t be longer than 1/100 s. If they move during the exposure, no IS will help you.

The dream is to get shutter speeds over 1/100 but in reality in the dance world, that isn't always possible. IS is a must if you are handholding in performing arts.

Here's an example of a shot that would not have been possible without IS or some form of stabilization.

http://arroshotz.smugmug.com/Dance/City-Dance-Studios-Spring/11875280_dHPvy#845230559_Bn77D

That was taken with a shutter speed of 1/20th handheld with the 70-200 2.8 IS on a 1D2.

[MMX]

Yes, if you want to use this artistic blur, then you need it, but when you are satisfied with classic stationary shots, it shouldn´t be a problem. I use 50mm f/1.4 without IS and I always use 1/100 and faster. This one is from a small club concert, no flash:

http://th01.deviantart.net/fs51/PRE/f/2009/333/f/c/Nergal_by_M_M_X.jpg

Model: Canon EOS 40D
Shutter Speed: 1/100 second
Aperture: F/1.8
Focal Length: 50 mm
ISO Speed: 1000

[bacchanal]

Yes, if you want to use this artistic blur, then you need it, but when you are satisfied with classic stationary shots, it shouldn´t be a problem. I use 50mm f/1.4 without IS and I always use 1/100 and faster. This one is from a small club concert, no flash:

What you're saying makes sense of course, but your example doesn't really seem applicable to the predicament of not having "enough" light.

[tfd888]

What you're saying makes sense of course, but your example doesn't really seem applicable to the predicament of not having "enough" light.

+1

What you are saying does make sense except for when there is literally no light and you need the shots, you aren't going to be getting shutter speeds of 1/100 unless you are at ISO 12,800 or the likes.

[CosmoKid]

i would have been stoked to be able to shoot iso 1000 at 1/100. my camera was metering 1/10 at iso 3200 with a 1.8 aperture. stuck it in manual. underexposed a stop and pushed it a stop in post.

[MMX]

When there is literally no light then screw it, put your camera into the bag and buy a beer.

[JessicaHughes]

Oh how I love the English Beat! I envy you! I do like the light that you got on them. Knowing their character, I think they will like these a lot.
Have you heard of the plug in 'noiseware'? It's a life save in low light situations as long as you don't over do it.

[JessicaHughes]

When there is literally no light then screw it, put your camera into the bag and buy a beer.

haha! I like that one too.

[JessicaHughes]

Oh, and if and when you can. Canon Mark II. Kicks ass in low light. It's incredible.

[CosmoKid]

Oh, and if and when you can. Canon Mark II. Kicks ass in low light. It's incredible.


I love my 5Dc. I have been holding off to skip this generation. This set almost caused me to go out and buy one.

[narlus]

i use both the original 5D and the 5D2, and if i could only grab one it'd be the 5D2 easily. ergonomics are better, image quality is at least equal if not better, high ISO is better. the additional features such as Live View, the larger and more accurate LCD screen, battery life, etc are also notable improvements.

[CosmoKid]

i use both the original 5D and the 5D2, and if i could only grab one it'd be the 5D2 easily. ergonomics are better, image quality is at least equal if not better, high ISO is better. the additional features such as Live View, the larger and more accurate LCD screen, battery life, etc are also notable improvements.


believe me Tim, I know. It's part of convincing myself telling me I dont need it. Your not helping! :)

[narlus]

the only drawback is that my camera has not been particularly reliable...

[CosmoKid]

thats not good to hear.

i went through this light issue again last night. ISO 3200 on the 5Dc is OKAY. I guess i'll invest in decent noise software before a new 5D2.

although i have a bunch of ebay bucks/bing CB waiting for me.