Need help with Photoshop 7.0

[Longwatcher]

I finally broke down and picked up the full version of Photoshop. My first impression is I am sorely disappointed. Adobe's photodeluxe business edition is a far superior product for professional photography and it came free with my Kodak DC4800 I bought 3 years ago. The only thing it lacks is image browser/slide show.

That said, maybe I am just not able to figure out how to the following in photoshop.

1. How would I do red eye removal?
(Photodeluxe I just click on two buttons, create the rectangle, hit another button and presto; finally I zoom and fix the one or two pixels it occaisonally misses). I really do not want to have to load the image into other software to fix when this happens. Yes I know I should not have gotten it in the first place, kind of unexpected since it was the first time since getting the 550EXs; must have been at just the right distance.

2. How do you do a slide show?
(For this I currently use Ulead Photo Explorer, used to use ThumbsPlus) This is freeware type activities. I figure I must be missing a button somewhere, but suspect not. I use slideshow to view a full screen version of the image to determine whether or not I want to keep it. I don't feel like clicking on each individual image when I am only going to keep 1 out of 10 at most.


Okay I only have two major complaints so far, but the first is adobe owned algorithms, the second is so common as to be unbelievable they did not include it. I could not figure either of these out from the manual or looking around the photoshop interface. Is there a way to do this and I missed it or did Adobe just get stupid?

I am willing to admit it could be a case of "used to doing that way" but I looked and could not find.

On the plus side, I do seem to have more control over sharpening, cloning/healing, and can (after spending $99 and 4 hours on and off the phone with Adobe) view Raw files directly. These by themselves do not justify the price of the software though, so I am not happy right now and lean towards photographers and photoshop being like Mac users and their computers; It must be better cause we say it so.

After I completely read the manual, I will again review my opinion since it is only the first day with the software and I expect to find that I can do much more with it then other programs, All I can say is it better.

Thanks if can answer the two questions.

[john_houghton]

[b]1. How would I do red eye removal?
There is no specific red eye removal tool in Photoshop, but there are general tools that you can use for this task. But if you wish to employ the PhotoDeluxe feature, you can simply copy the redeye.8bf plugin over from PhotoDeluxe into Photoshop.

[b]2. How do you do a slide show?
You don't. It doesn't do calendars or greetings cards or photo albums either. It is just a supremely competent image editor. You can't learn it overnight - it will take time to begin to understand why it is the industry standard. Much of its functionality you will probably never need, but you can learn to use it progressively without the unrequired features getting in the way. I'm still discovering new features after using it for 5 or 6 years.

John

[Longwatcher]

Thanks,
That red eye suggestion worked, however, only with Jpeg files.
It did not work with the Tif I tried or either of the two Raw files I tried. But it did work with the jpeg formated one.

[Correction: I just tried a different image and it does work with Raw files, just not as well for some reason, I only have the one .tif image with a red eye case and most of the filters will not even come up for that image.]

I will play with it some more. Very helpful hint.
Again Thanks,

[elm54]

longwatcher wrote:

1. How would I do red eye removal?
(.
1. circular mask the pupils
2. feather, maybe 1 pixel
3. channel mixer (image menu, adjust )
red channel 0%
green channel 50%
blue channel 50%
check preview
check monochrome if you want
4. adjust to taste,
it works for me. Hope it helps

[AJSJones]

Longwatcher,
If your filters are grayed out in the menu it means you're in 16bit mode. Only a few (but important) things work on those images. For most of the filters and a lot of other operations, you need to do a mode change to 8bit.
If you're looking at a file you think is RAW, it must have been converted somewhere to an image file to be visible on the screen and could have been converted to 16bit in the process.
JPEG is a compression/storage format - you can't see a JPEG unless you uncompress it (by opening it) and then it's an image file. And your image files need to be in 8bit mode for much of the benefit of PS to be available

Andy

[Longwatcher]

AJSJones wrote:
Longwatcher,
If your filters are grayed out in the menu it means you're in 16bit mode. Only a few (but important) things work on those images. For most of the filters and a lot of other operations, you need to do a mode change to 8bit.
If you're looking at a file you think is RAW, it must have been converted somewhere to an image file to be visible on the screen and could have been converted to 16bit in the process.
JPEG is a compression/storage format - you can't see a JPEG unless you uncompress it (by opening it) and then it's an image file. And your image files need to be in 8bit mode for much of the benefit of PS to be available

Andy

Although I did not try it last night, I suspected it might be the 16bit format for the TIF images. Thanks for confirming that for me. And yes I am aware that jpeg is a file storage format all images are usually displayed in an on-screen format which tends to correspond to Bit-mapped-pixel (BMP) format at least for windows OS.

I am thinking that Photoshop actually stores the images in TIF as the file sizes tend to be similiar. Before PS7 I would convert my RAW files to 16 bit TIF or to JPEG. I used 16 bit, because I noticed a difference between 8 and 16bit using the Canon Raw image converter application. I use jpeg because it was easy to do a slide show to review the images in mass and to provide a CD-R to the models that they could read.

I have noticed that with the RAW file converted in PS7 I am given the option and since I did not see any difference between 8 bit and 16 bit conversions with that application, I went with 8bit since the files should be smaller when done. So that is probably why it worked. No if I can just figure out why it did not work as well. Explaining what it is doing, it is only correcting a small portion of the red eye at a time (or at least in the smaple I did). The interesting effect is it seems to assume 2 eyes are present, even if only one is in the box. I usually don't get red eye anymore, but need an easy way to correct it when it does crop up. Out of the most recent 450 images, I only noticed it in about 5 shots. Probably due to just the right angles and distance.

I am kind of curious why the additional filters do not work with 16bit images. Is there some logic at work?

[Roger_Cavanagh]

Tim,

JPG files are smaller not only because they are 8-bit, but because they use image compression that will cause your image data to degrade, if you edit and re-save a JPG. If you shoot raw format, I would strongly advise not converting to JPG as you will lose most of the benefit of raw - you may just as well have shot JPG in the first place.

Conversion from raw to 16-bit TIFF is the best option to maintain image quality, though at a price of increased file size and some restriction of PS functionality. Raw files are, in fact, only 12-bit per RGB channel, not 16, but this still means that each colour can have 4096 different values compared to the 256 in 8-bit.

Personally, I try to stay in 16-bit as long as possible and only convert to 8-bit when I absolutely need to. However, a good comprise is to convert to 16-bit, make major levels and curves adjustments in 16-bit, then convert to 8-bit to give access to layers, and all the filters and other stuff.

You started off by claiming disappointment at the switch to PS. I'm afraid that you do have a steep learning curve ahead of you. PS is a huge complex product that has so much power and sophistication that it takes a long time to master. I have only been using PS for less than 2 years, I have put in a lot of keyboard time with it, but there is still so much to learn, but I am convinced that the quality of my pictures has improved immeasurably using PS as my digital darkroom.

Regards,

[Longwatcher]

Roger,
Just to let you know.

I tend to always shoot in RAW these days and then I archive it in RAW so I always have the best quality version available for whatever purpose.

I use Jpeg just to view the images quickly and then I select the ones I will be working on and convert to TIF (usually 16bit, but may have to go to 8bit to use PS7.

I have 20 years under my belt as an Image Analyst for the USAF, and have taken several image compression and image file formating course. by the way NITF is the standard I use at work which uses either Jpeg or another standard I can't remember right now (but is 4.3 to 1 compression, that I remember). I have worked with a lot of image file types.

Just thought you should know when responding to my whining about PS7 or different file formats.

Thanks.

[PSknr]

There is a free red-eye removal action at the following website.

www.fredmiranda.com/actions

Than scroll to the bottom of the page to download the free action. Theres also other cool things on this website.

[lziering]

If you'd like to learn more about Photoshop you might try to visit this site:

http://www.russellbrown.com/

It contains great tutorials, many of them Quicktime movies. Russel is knowledgable, funny, and a great communicator.

I think you will begin to discover that Photoshop may well be the most powerful and flexible program ever written for a personal computer.

[mikebegley]

As stated Photoshop is a great editor, but does no have the "crafty" type things that you will find in other more intuitive software. But you will get great results in Photoshop.

I have a great read eye action I can send you if you email me. It is the best I have ever used.

Also, you might want to pick up a book or two at Amazon to help you. I have purchased several that I am happy with and some that were to "over my head".

Ones that I have liked are:
The Photoshop Book for Digital Photographers
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735712360/mjbdesign-20

Photoshop Restoration and Retouching
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0789723182/mjbdesign-20

Photoshop Type Effects (this one is not really for photos but stuff you can add to them to create art)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735711909/mjbdesign-20

Good luck and if you want the action just Email me.

Mike

[Default9]

john_houghton wrote:


[b]2. How do you do a slide show?
You don't. It doesn't do calendars or greetings cards or photo albums either. It is just a supremely competent image editor. You can't learn it overnight - it will take time to begin to understand why it is the industry standard. Much of its functionality you will probably never need, but you can learn to use it progressively without the unrequired features getting in the way. I'm still discovering new features after using it for 5 or 6 years.

John
it does do web photo albums, FILE>AUTOMATE>WEBPHOTOGALLERY voilla,Photoshop makes a nice Html page for you.

[tikkeltokkel]

Damn... i didnt think of changing the colour for red-eye . I used to select the area and then spend a minute on each pupil "burning it in" . This is why i love these forums
Thanks

[Evanrich]

longwatcher wrote:
I finally broke down and picked up the full version of Photoshop. My first impression is I am sorely disappointed. Adobe's photodeluxe business edition is a far superior product for professional photography and it came free with my Kodak DC4800 I bought 3 years ago. The only thing it lacks is image browser/slide show.

That said, maybe I am just not able to figure out how to the following in photoshop.

1. How would I do red eye removal?
(Photodeluxe I just click on two buttons, create the rectangle, hit another button and presto; finally I zoom and fix the one or two pixels it occaisonally misses). I really do not want to have to load the image into other software to fix when this happens. Yes I know I should not have gotten it in the first place, kind of unexpected since it was the first time since getting the 550EXs; must have been at just the right distance.

2. How do you do a slide show?
(For this I currently use Ulead Photo Explorer, used to use ThumbsPlus) This is freeware type activities. I figure I must be missing a button somewhere, but suspect not. I use slideshow to view a full screen version of the image to determine whether or not I want to keep it. I don't feel like clicking on each individual image when I am only going to keep 1 out of 10 at most.


Okay I only have two major complaints so far, but the first is adobe owned algorithms, the second is so common as to be unbelievable they did not include it. I could not figure either of these out from the manual or looking around the photoshop interface. Is there a way to do this and I missed it or did Adobe just get stupid?

I am willing to admit it could be a case of "used to doing that way" but I looked and could not find.

On the plus side, I do seem to have more control over sharpening, cloning/healing, and can (after spending $99 and 4 hours on and off the phone with Adobe) view Raw files directly. These by themselves do not justify the price of the software though, so I am not happy right now and lean towards photographers and photoshop being like Mac users and their computers; It must be better cause we say it so.

After I completely read the manual, I will again review my opinion since it is only the first day with the software and I expect to find that I can do much more with it then other programs, All I can say is it better.

Thanks if can answer the two questions.

No offense... but if all you want in an image editor is a red eye removal tool, and a slide show generator, then you wasted your money sir, and to talk bad about photoshop for not having these features, then you are a fool for spending 600$ on this program.

Photoshop is the professional choice image creation/manipulation/editing tool used by professionals world wide. It is probably one of the most advanced, if not the only advanced editing software available today. Everything from webpages to ad campaigns are generated using photoshop. You can do reconstructive and cosmetic surgery digitally using photoshop... have a fat model? shed some fat off her sides. you can change the color of clothes, hair, eyes, backgrouns... you can create surreal images that would never be possible with anything else..... and all you want is a red eye removal tool? the only one to blame for your ignorance with purchasing this software is yourself... not adobe. Did you ever stop to wonder why it costs 600 USD for this program? you should have if anything bought photoshop elements for 99$, almost the same, but trimmed down. or gone with a program like paintshop pro... editing software for amateur to intermediate level photographers and graphics design people.


Sorry if I sound like an ass... but the way you talk about photoshop, you act like it's supposed to be microsoft paint.


Evan

[Longwatcher]

evanrich wrote:

On the plus side, I do seem to have more control over sharpening, cloning/healing, and can (after spending $99 and 4 hours on and off the phone with Adobe) view Raw files directly. These by themselves do not justify the price of the software though, so I am not happy right now and lean towards photographers and photoshop being like Mac users and their computers; It must be better cause we say it so.

After I completely read the manual, I will again review my opinion since it is only the first day with the software and I expect to find that I can do much more with it then other programs, All I can say is it better.

Thanks if can answer the two questions.

No offense... but if all you want in an image editor is a red eye removal tool, and a slide show generator, then you wasted your money sir, and to talk bad about photoshop for not having these features, then you are a fool for spending 600$ on this program.


Sorry if I sound like an ass... but the way you talk about photoshop, you act like it's supposed to be microsoft paint.


Evan

Evan, normally I don't do this, but...

Did you read all of the post?

In fairness, I never did go back to this post and point out that I now use PS 7.01 as my primary digital image tool.
The only thing I still wish they had included was a slide show viewer (aka T+ or Ulead explorer) so I can review the images faster. But since I have to create the jpegs for the models anyway, does not add that much effort.

And yes PS is one of the most powerful tools I have used, but I also still think they should have included some of the ease of use plug ins from photo deluxe.

Just my opinion,

[atotos]

My photo site is in fact a Photoshop 7 slide gallery :)

http://www.gksdesign.com/ixus400/

and it's also easy to create new gallery templates to fit all needs... :)