7D Successor?

[Martin Dixon]

Anyone guess when 7D likely to be superseded?

I have a 500D with some reasonable lenses, my theory was that this was a good enough camera to start and I'd concentrate on lenses. Generally it is very good, however I seem to have a lot of trouble getting sharp images of moving children (on scooters, bikes, swings etc.) Usually using EF-s 17-55 f2.8 IS (could the lens be slow to focus?). This may be my poor technique, but I am beginning to think the 7D might be significantly faster (to focus etc. + low noise at slightly higher ISO). I am thinking of waiting for 7D successor if / when this should ever appear, it would be nice to know when this might be.

[FlyingPhotog]

What's the 7D now .. about eight months old or so?

Going to be a while I think.

[harcosparky]

I'm waiting for the successor of the successor of the 7D! :D

[TeamSpeed]

372 days 15 hours 12 minutes and 14 seconds from now....

[FlyingPhotog]

372 days 15 hours 12 minutes and 14 seconds from now....

Does that take Leap Year and Daylight Savings into account? ;)

[kent andersen]

Well, I heard from some uncles cousine, that know someone that work together with a guy that are a friend with someone who heard a canon guy saying : we are going to bring a remarkable camera out on the marked soon. (Soon meaning everything from tomorow and 3 years from now). :)

[OregonRebel]

The T2i was already released a few months ago.... ;)

[TeamSpeed]

Does that take Leap Year and Daylight Savings into account? ;)

If you want it to, it does. :)

[Martin Dixon]

I looked at the canon time-line here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_500D

click "show" on time-line line near bottom of page.

Judging how long the 500D "lasted" on the diagram the 7D could be about to "expire". Or not.

[philwillmedia]

How long is a piece of string?
Twice as long as it is from the middle to one end

Even better...whats the temperature of water out of a tap (fawcet)
Now, if you take the square root of the answer to that, divide by Pi, multiply it by any prime number and add three you'll probably have just as much of an idea as anybody.

Here's a novel idea, why not look at buying a camera that is available now.

Edit: above attempted humour aside, I often use a 400d as a second back-up for motorsport and sports photography with more than adequate results.
A 500d is more than able to cope with kids on scooters and swings etc.
Post some pics - it's a lot easier to help when we can see the results.
I'd suggest it's technique

[TeamSpeed]

I looked at the canon time-line here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_500D

click "show" on time-line line near bottom of page.

Judging how long the 500D "lasted" on the diagram the 7D could be about to "expire". Or not.

The rebel line gets refreshed a bit faster than the mid and pro levels. Don't use the rebel line to draw conclusions on the other lines. Plus keep in mind that cameras aren't even available upon the release announcement, you will wait another month or so after that. If you are that concerned, just buy a used body that has already depreciated substantially and then sell it and buy the 7D successor.

Examples of the difficulties you are having would be good to post. If you have the 500D and the 17-55, and cannot get good shots of kids on bikes or swings, I don't think a camera upgrade is going to help. I think tweaking some settings and trying different techniques may be in order, but example shots will help determine that. That camera and lens should be a potent combination.

[lerroy]

this is the same thing with computers or phone or cars i used to get people come into computer shop and say ill wait another six months there will be a new CPU out that's faster.....but there will always be something new coming out that's better faster and does more, that's how things work

you cant keep waiting i say get the 7D now be happy with what you have got im very happy with mine had it for all of 2 weeks and never thought about a successor maybe for the 50D but 7D is still early days in canons timeline

[guntoter]

I looked at the canon time-line here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_500D

click "show" on time-line line near bottom of page.

Judging how long the 500D "lasted" on the diagram the 7D could be about to "expire". Or not.

Wow, that timeline is very interesting. Looks like the 50D has been out longer than any of the other bodies in it's catagory without an upgrade (2 years). 60D may be soon.
I notice the 5dII is also 2 years out, but the 5D was out for 3 years before the 5dII came out.

Thanks for the link.

[CanonGarcon]

Wow, that timeline is very interesting. Looks like the 50D has been out longer than any of the other bodies in it's catagory without an upgrade (2 years). 60D may be soon.
I notice the 5dII is also 2 years out, but the 5D was out for 3 years before the 5dII came out.

Thanks for the link.

Umm, the 7D is the upgrade from the 50D. It came out a year after the 50D.

[gjl711]

The rebel line gets refreshed a bit faster than the mid and pro levels. ..If you look at the whole history, crop cameras (including the 1D) = 18 months and full frame cameras are evey 36 months. There are a few exceptions but not many.

[gjl711]

Umm, the 7D is the upgrade from the 50D..Somewhere I remember reading Chuck Westfall saying that it was not.

[guntoter]

Umm, the 7D is the upgrade from the 50D. It came out a year after the 50D.

I disagree with that. The 7D is in it's own category (High-end non-FF). The 50D is in the Prosumer category. That is why they are coming out (probably) with a 60D to follow the 50D.

EDIT: Also, if you look at the chart that the link gave it shows the 7D in it's own category.

[TeamSpeed]

If you look at the whole history, crop cameras (including the 1D) = 18 months and full frame cameras are evey 36 months. There are a few exceptions but not many.

I believe there have been 2 more Rebels in the same time line as the xxD line, I believe this covers the last 4 years of releases. Just comparing line to line anyways.

Rebels: XTi, XS, XSi, T1i, T2i
xxD: 30D, 40D, 50D

[Stone 13]

I might play the sidelines for 1 generation as well and work on improving my collection of glass 1st. I'm thinking of picking up a 50D to hold me over until we see whats in the Canon pipeline. I'm very impressed by the 7D, but it just doesn't have that gotta have it factor for me. I want to see what the xxD replacement will look like or even if an affordable high performance FF is released in the 3K price range......

[CyberDyneSystems]

I agree that the 7D is absolutely NOT the replacement for the 50D, it is clearly a whole new line,..


However I believe there is some validity in suggesting that the introduction of the new 7D line has delayed the need for Canon to release a new body in the XXD line.. clearly since they haven't yet.

Keep in mind the 5D was another very long term body,. and it too was a "new" line, I think every time a new line is released, it upsets/alters the previous scheduling one way or another.

[MMX]

Judging how long the 500D "lasted" on the diagram the 7D could be about to "expire". Or not.

BS. XXXD are completely different cameras for completely different type of people. The closer to high end, the more time you have to wait for an upgrade. The 1Ds was announced in August 2007 (almost 3 years ago) and it´s still here.

BTW in my opinion 7D can be the replacement for 50D, it´s just a little bit improved to be a direct competitor to Nikon D300s and maybe the next Canon´s semi pro cameras will have the same price.

[gjl711]

BTW in my opinion 7D can be the replacement for 50DHaving both I have to respectfully disagree.

[Martin Dixon]

OK here is an example of what I mean - :oops: very poor! oof + motion blur.

Quite bright conditions, but still to slow exposure 1/160 s.
I am loath to increase ISO much hence iso 200 here (exif should be intact in main image)
not wide open to 2.8 as I imagine need for leeway as object moving.
Focus mode: AI servo AF

Any ideas what I might be doing wrong or other criticism very welcome!!

http://www.m-dixon.com/potn/scoot_1.jpg

http://www.m-dixon.com/potn/scoot_2.jpg

[philwillmedia]

Any ideas what I might be doing wrong or other criticism very welcome!

Yep.
Simple case of user error.
You you were using a shutter speed that was too slow for that style of shot.

It looks to me that part the maroon 4WD (or some kind of rec vehicle - RAV4 maybe) that is in the far left of the shot and the footpath where the kids are is in reasonable focus.
Could be a bit of camera shake too, but the pic is a bit small to really tell.

You don't need a "better" camera - your results would be exactly the same if you were using 1D MkIV or the non existant 7D replacement you are asking about.
You need to improve your technique. Not your camera.

If you wanted to get the kids sharp with a shutter speed of 1/160sec you need to pan with them or raise your shutter speed.

Edit: Also using Tv (or full manual) instead of Av would have been a better choice.

[gjl711]

...
I am loath to increase ISO much hence iso 200 here ...Why so conservative on ISO? I would think that the 500D handles 800 without issue and 1600 rather nicely as well. That would have gotten you a much higher shutter speed.

[FlyingPhotog]

Why so conservative on ISO? I would think that the 500D handles 800 without issue and 1600 rather nicely as well. That would have gotten you a much higher shutter speed.

Because people don't print anything much anymore...

Hardly anyone understands just how much you can actually push sharpening and how "suppressed" noise really becomes when the ink hits the paper.

4x6 Prints are virtually noise free until you get over ISO 1600.

[dave kadolph]

Because people don't print anything much anymore...

4x6 Prints are virtually noise free until you get over ISO 1600.

Too True---and anything over about 8mp @ 8 x 10 on a 1.6 crop is a waste ;)

[MMX]

Having both I have to respectfully disagree.

What are the features that 7D has but 60D shouldn´t have? New AF is something they should have introduced long time ago (Nikon D200 introduced in 2005 has more AF points than Canon 50D or 5D Mk. II), higher resolution is something we expect automatically and 100% viewfinder? This was a little surprise, however technically it´s not a big deal, if they wanted, every camera could have it.

[Panda_stunter]

seeing as full frame time span is 3 years, aps-h's span is 1.75-3 years and entry and midlevel aps-c are 1-2 years...i would say it would take 1.5-2.5 years before they make a successor for the 7D. so the successor for the 7D would be around 2 years from now. Or rather, 1.5 years from now since it came out last year. thats just a calculated guess though.

but since technology evolves freaking fast now, i wouldnt be surprised if theres a 7d mark 2 by next year that would have quad digic 5 with 11.5fps, 22mp or something like that :lol:. and it would be an aps-h (hopefully), but it wont be since it wouldnt be a 7D without aps-c.

as for being a new line, i believe the 7D is its own line. one clear cut fact that separates it from other aps-c canon formats would be the dual-dgic4 processor.

as for me, i printed a shot of mine with my girl and it looked REALLY good on 8x10. if anything, i could print it on canvas...maybe i should!

[Panda_stunter]

OK here is an example of what I mean - :oops: very poor! oof + motion blur.

Quite bright conditions, but still to slow exposure 1/160 s.
I am loath to increase ISO much hence iso 200 here (exif should be intact in main image)
not wide open to 2.8 as I imagine need for leeway as object moving.
Focus mode: AI servo AF

Any ideas what I might be doing wrong or other criticism very welcome!!


Yep.
Simple case of user error.
You you were using a shutter speed that was too slow for that style of shot.

It looks to me that part the maroon 4WD (or some kind of rec vehicle - RAV4 maybe) that is in the far left of the shot and the footpath where the kids are is in reasonable focus.
Could be a bit of camera shake too, but the pic is a bit small to really tell.

You don't need a "better" camera - your results would be exactly the same if you were using 1D MkIV or the non existant 7D replacement you are asking about.
You need to improve your technique. Not your camera.

If you wanted to get the kids sharp with a shutter speed of 1/160sec you need to pan with them or raise your shutter speed.

Edit: Also using Tv (or full manual) instead of Av would have been a better choice.

i agree with phil here. it really looks like you focused on the vehicle rather than the moving kids.

phil, i think it was a jeep liberty... :lol:

[IanW]

7D successor, damn man, leave my poor 7D alone, she is not ready for the scrappy yet! :rolleyes: :lol:

Ian.

[Panda_stunter]

7D successor, damn man, leave my poor 7D alone, she is not ready for the scrappy yet! :rolleyes: :lol:

Ian.

i know what youre saying...i just got mine too! but i was just talking on a logical unattached point of view...but im very attached to my 7D!

[BlueAqua]

7D successor, damn man, leave my poor 7D alone, she is not ready for the scrappy yet! :rolleyes: :lol:

Ian.

lol ya, it's too early to feel insufficient.

[geoff5093]

this is the same thing with computers or phone or cars i used to get people come into computer shop and say ill wait another six months there will be a new CPU out that's faster.....but there will always be something new coming out that's better faster and does more, that's how things work

you cant keep waiting i say get the 7D now be happy with what you have got im very happy with mine had it for all of 2 weeks and never thought about a successor maybe for the 50D but 7D is still early days in canons timeline
That's true, BUT the 7D has been out for 8 months already, if the 7D just came out then I can see your point, but if someone already waited 8 months why not was just a little longer and get the successor when it just comes out?

[krb]

That's true, BUT the 7D has been out for 8 months already, if the 7D just came out then I can see your point, but if someone already waited 8 months why not was just a little longer and get the successor when it just comes out?
The 7D is less than half way through it's life cycle. What you're saying is "if someone already waited 8 months why not wait another year (or more) and get the new model?"

Does that really make sense to you?

[geoff5093]

The 7D is less than half way through it's life cycle. What you're saying is "if someone already waited 8 months why not wait another year (or more) and get the new model?"

Does that really make sense to you?
That's assuming they stick to that, and no one knows for sure.

I wasn't saying that everyone should wait since the 7D is almost half way through it's life, I was referring to his post that said how everyone comes in and says they want to wait for the next best thing. It wouldn't make sense to wait when the 7D just came out, but since it's only another year someone who is waiting to buy a new camera and can wait a while longer, might as well wait.

[krb]

That's assuming they stick to that, and no one knows for sure.Exactly. Nobody knows for sure, yet you are advising waiting for something that may never come instead of buying what they need when they need it.

...7D is almost half way through it's life,

...since it's only another year

...might as well wait.
If the 7D has the same life cycle as the xxD series then it's another 16 months of waiting. But the 7D is supposed to be placed higher, more of a pro-sumer model like the 5D, and the 5D is on a 3 year cycle so you could be waiting more than 2 years before it arrives. Or Canon might decide that the 7D is not a viable line and there may never be a mkII version of it.

[geoff5093]

Exactly. Nobody knows for sure, yet you are advising waiting for something that may never come instead of buying what they need when they need it.


If the 7D has the same life cycle as the xxD series then it's another 16 months of waiting. But the 7D is supposed to be placed higher, more of a pro-sumer model like the 5D, and the 5D is on a 3 year cycle so you could be waiting more than 2 years before it arrives. Or Canon might decide that the 7D is not a viable line and there may never be a mkII version of it.
It depends on the person, if someone needs a camera and they are looking at the 7D, then no they shouldn't wait. I'm saying that for someone like me who has a body and it works fine, then if you aren't in a dire need of a new body you might as well wait and get the latest and greatest once the new body is released.

[MMX]

OMFG you don´t even know what could be improved and you already ask for a new camera.

[Tom W]

If the 7D has the same life cycle as the xxD series then it's another 16 months of waiting. But the 7D is supposed to be placed higher, more of a pro-sumer model like the 5D, and the 5D is on a 3 year cycle so you could be waiting more than 2 years before it arrives. Or Canon might decide that the 7D is not a viable line and there may never be a mkII version of it.

I thought that the xxD bodies were on an 18 month cycle (give or take a few months). The 7D's been out since October, 2009 according to the Canon Camera Museum. On the xxD cycle, it would be slated for replacement around April, 2011. I think that we'll probably be waiting at least a year for its replacement, if not longer. It's holding its price well, indicating that it is a good seller.

[geoff5093]

OMFG you don´t even know what could be improved and you already ask for a new camera.
There are always improvements, better high ISO performance, higher FPS, better AF, etc.

I'm a hypocrite though, I just bought a 7D with BestBuy's 20% Cashback, lol

[Poe]

Since Canon spokepersons continue to indicate that the 7D is not a replacement for the 50D and it is a compliment to the 5D, then I would reason that the 7D will follow a similar 3 year product cycle like the 5D. This will allow 1D enhancements to be passed down in some form to the 7D.

[MMX]

There are always improvements, better high ISO performance, higher FPS, better AF, etc.

I'm a hypocrite though, I just bought a 7D with BestBuy's 20% Cashback, lol

In other words you want the 1D Mk. IV.
BTW what are you shooting that you need all this? Flying bats at night?

[The Moose]

Keep in mind the 5D was another very long term body,. and it too was a "new" line, I think every time a new line is released, it upsets/alters the previous scheduling one way or another.

It definitely did. The 20D technology effectively lasted 3 years, as the 30D was just a cosmetic upgrade (like the 1D Mark IIN to the original Mark II). Then the new technology came in and we saw the 1D Mark III, 40D and 400D. The 7D has upset the xxD line because it is so affordable compared to the xxxD/Rebel line. There's not much space for a new xxD in terms of price.

[geoff5093]

In other words you want the 1D Mk. IV.
BTW what are you shooting that you need all this? Flying bats at night?
I'm actually trying to shoot misquotes as they try to escape bats in pitch blackness while trying to obtain a 1/2000 SS.

[gjl711]

It definitely did. The 20D technology effectively lasted 3 years, as the 30D was just a cosmetic upgrade....I'd almost say that the 40D and 50D are just cosmetic upgrades as well. New features, faster processors, more bells and whistles, but the technology is pretty much the same.

[FlyingPhotog]

I think it's safe to call "Upgrade" when a body received a new D!g!c Processor.

[gjl711]

I think it's safe to call "Upgrade" when a body received a new D!g!c Processor.Clearly, but not a change in technology. Canon has not really had any technological advances for some time. Maybe we can consider live view a tech advancement and video as well.

[The Moose]

I'd almost say that the 40D and 50D are just cosmetic upgrades as well. New features, faster processors, more bells and whistles, but the technology is pretty much the same.

Possibly. Not in the same vein as the 20D to 30D but I can see where you're coming from. The next bunch will be a larger technological advancement, surely. The recent ones (7D, 1D Mark IV, 5D Mark II) have been decent steps up but with the gaps in between them (and even the eventual 1Ds Mark IV), you can't talk about them in the same breath.

[DarthVader]

It's already been released:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-7D-Mark-II-w-Lens-Pro9000-Printer-Bundle-/110545661588?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item19bd08ee94

[gjl711]

It's already been released:
Whoa.. Canon sort of sneaked that one out on us. Guess they didn't want everyone to rush out and git one. :):):)

[FlyingPhotog]

Clearly, but not a change in technology. Canon has not really had any technological advances for some time. Maybe we can consider live view a tech advancement and video as well.

I'd call Live View a "jump" but video is mearly doable because of LV...

Had they not figured out how to pass a moving image to the LCD, there would never have been a signal to record.

[EOS Man]

No thanks to a 7D successor - I just got one less than 3 days ago!! Hope the 7D Mark II comes out no earlier than fall 2011