A tad frustrated...No purchases on track day

[Apexer]

Series:
http://www.crollhausphotography.com/p1072991268
75 views, mostly from drivers.

I need some brutally honest feedback. I know some of the images are not razor sharp. I try to do the vast majority of my shots in panning mode, and I do not have an IS lens. I primarily use a Sigma 70-200, and I do the best I can. Usually shooting at 125/160th. I think one fault of mine is that maybe I set up on some very high speed portions of the track. Until I get more experience should I try a lower speed part of the track ?

I know an IS is not the answer to everything, but I can't help but feel that it would have made a big difference.

Thanks in advance...I can't begin to tell you how much I've learned here.

[philwillmedia]

Hi Mark,
Don't expect to sell a heap of pics - most people just go to your site to look - some will even download from your site.
A crappy photo for free is better than a good one that you have to pay for - it's the mentality of a lot of people and race drivers are no exception. Don't sweat it.
I don't see a lot wrong with your pics at all - maybe a little bit bland in that a lot are all so similar...ie: different car same location
About the only thing I'd suggest is a little bit more variety in angles and locations on the track.
The secret is to move around - don't "camp" in the same spot all day. Shoot say 3 or 4 laps in one spot then move to another or use a different lens.
Or shoot a race from one corner/area then move to another for the next one.
Some with a bit slower shutter speed would help as well - I go down to as slow as 1/30 sec at times and have been known to get arty and go as slow as 1/5 sec as per here http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=868395
For what it's worth, I don't use IS at all - the only lens I have with IS is the 100-400 and that's beacuse there was no IS version available.
I deliberately bought the non IS versions of the 300/2.8 and the 70-200/2.8 for the simple fact that I don't use it.
Sometimes you need to be a bit brave in what you do - by that I mean not every thing needs to shot tight and close up.

[Apexer]

Thank you, Phil. I shot in 4 different locations, but you'd have to wade thru quite a few shots to see them. Thanks for input on IS as well.

[philwillmedia]

That might be another problem - too many shots for people to wade through.
I usually only put up my best images from a meeting - usually up to about 100.
It makes their time on the site enjoyable and after much more than that people just get sick of seeing the same sort of shots.
If people want a pic of themselves I'll usually get an email that goes something like "do you have any shots of car #??? in the XXXX race/category"
I find it makes want more and they seek you out.

PS: I made some edits to my original post - not sure if you saw those.

[Apexer]

That might be another problem - too many shots for people to wade through.

That may be key, for sure. I figured I had to get EVERYBODY in the gallery a few times. I will give your advice a shot at the next session. Thanks a ton.

[Mike Hoyer]

To be honest, nothing leaps out that says "buy me"! You need some closer crops, and a bit more variety. Don't put in pictures with bits of cars cut off unless it's deliberately framed that way, as at the moment it looks like more like someone taking photos for fun than trying to run a business.

[Apexer]

There are only about 5 images that are partial cars, and yes some were meant to be that way, the others were just interesting enough to include. I will try to branch out more, for sure.

[Mike Hoyer]

Fair enough. Generally though I think if you are trying to sell photos to drivers you want something that fills the frame, shows some action etc. A lot of these are loose, and just going in a straight line.

Also, are you allowed to sell photos from the track?

[Apexer]

Mike, the track ( Portland International ) is actually a public park and I think the only time they credential is for major races - but none are held here any longer. :cry: So I sign a liability waiver and check in with the corner workers so they know where I'm at and shoot to hearts content.

I will take you advice, and tighten up the images, and also park at a corner entrance and get some turn in shots, etc. I personally love panning shots, but Im not the one buying ( or not ....lol ) the shots.

[Mike Hoyer]

Nothing wrong with panned shots! But if you are selling to the drivers I think they would appreciate something bigger and bolder. The other thing I would try and avoid is too many foreground obstructions, there's some distracting bright orange posts and poles in some pictures. Maybe try and get a bit more head on at some corners too (I don't know what the track is like for this though!)

In answer to your other question - I don't think IS is a concern. But yes, try and get to some slower parts of the track, coming into/out of a corner for example.

Try and aim for something like the attached pictures perhaps.

[DC Fan]

Where are the track day images being sold? At the track, or online after the racers have gone home? It's an important point for what is usually an impulse, on-the-spot purchase.

[Apexer]

Mike, I will avoid the pylons in the future - I was thinking they added to the sensation of speed, but I haven't been at this long. I will certainly take your advice.

Where are the track day images being sold? At the track, or online after the racers have gone home? It's an important point for what is usually an impulse, on-the-spot purchase.

On line, via my Zenfolio account. I stopped and chatted up a few drivers, handed out some business cards, trying very hard not to interfere with race prep. I would often hand a card to somebody who was on the periphery of the team so as not to bother the driver or mechanics ( often one and the same = ) ).

Figures....opened e-mail this morning and I made a sale. I caught a class winner taking a passenger on a victory lap. So I will take a very small victory lap too. =)

http://www.crollhausphotography.com/img/v6/p467961483-4.jpg

[tkbslc]

I am not an expert in this type of photography, but what I saw in most of them was way too much boring green with a little car in the middle. I think you need to get in tighter kinda like the one's mike hoyer showed above unless the background is interesting.

[Apexer]

I am not an expert in this type of photography, but what I saw in most of them was way too much boring green with a little car in the middle. I think you need to get in tighter kinda like the one's mike hoyer showed above unless the background is interesting.

Point taken.

[Methodical]

Apexer hope you don't mind but I'd like to make a suggestion to clean up your home page. Make those Collections, groups or galleries you have into a menu where visitors just click a topic and it takes them to that particular gallery. This leaves you with a clean home page that includes information about you and the Slideshow. Just a suggestion.

If I'd had the opportunity to shoot motorsport where they allowed me free reign, I'd venture a bit closer to the track for some tighter shots similar to what Mike posted (a photo I would buy if I were the driver) if I did not have the longer focal length lens (in Mike's case 300mm lens and 1.4tc). I know it can be dangerous, but living is dangerous too.

Just keep at it and try what have been suggested here...move around and try different angles...hell even get low and catch the car peaking a hill (head on, from the side)...try everything. But only post what you think is the best. Plus approach the drivers and see if they'd pay you to focus on them.

Good luck.

[DC Fan]

On line, via my Zenfolio account. I stopped and chatted up a few drivers, handed out some business cards, trying very hard not to interfere with race prep.

That point may be more important to "no purchases" than the perceived quality of the images. From event photo sales experience: the best place to make a sale, for all intents the only place to make a sale, is at the event. People often ask for a way to order an image after they've gone home, but they don't usually follow up with a purchase.

The best way to make those sales is to make prints available at the events. That means hauling a computer and printer to the event and making contact sheets and prints on the spot. Sometimes it means having your own trailer and generator so you don't have to depend on using the track's facilities. It's expensive and means a lot of work, but you have to strike while the iron is hot, and it's far too cold to wait for orders after an event is over. Letting people go home without giving them an easy opportunity to buy a print at the event passes up your best chance to make money. In event photography, you're dealing in instant gratification, not high art.

[Apexer]

That point may be more important to "no purchases" than the perceived quality of the images. From event photo sales experience: the best place to make a sale, for all intents the only place to make a sale, is at the event. People often ask for a way to order an image after they've gone home, but they don't usually follow up with a purchase.

The best way to make those sales is to make prints available at the events. That means hauling a computer and printer to the event and making contact sheets and prints on the spot. Sometimes it means having your own trailer and generator so you don't have to depend on using the track's facilities. It's expensive and means a lot of work, but you have to strike while the iron is hot, and it's far too cold to wait for orders after an event is over. Letting people go home without giving them an easy opportunity to buy a print at the event passes up your best chance to make money. In event photography, you're dealing in instant gratification, not high art.

Are you speaking from experience? Have you tried this?

[DC Fan]

Are you speaking from experience? Have you tried this?

Yes. Definitely. Won't claim experience if it hasn't happened.

"From event photo sales experience" means having traveled from California to Massachusetts and parts between to sell pictures at events. People often ask how to order pictures after the event, but the orders never come.

There's a reason that photo vendors, from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway to the GNCC off-road series to countless small tracks, put extra effort to make pictures available at the track, at the race, on the spot. The best place to make picture sales is at the event, and you need to make the fresh product available right away.

One acquaintance who has found the way to make event sales work brings at least two Olympus dye-sublimation printers to each race he works. Another organization has a similar setup right at trackside, where no one can miss the pictures. They work hard to make fresh samples available of the day's action, hour by hour, so no one can miss the opportunity to purchase their products.

Again: the sames of event pictures are impulse purchases. If you give potential customers too much reason to not see what you have available and don't work to make sales at the track. you won't make sales later on.

[Methodical]

Sounds like he will need a staff of workers...at least one other person or hustle and make the prints himself.

Yes. Definitely. Won't claim experience if it hasn't happened.

"From event photo sales experience" means having traveled from California to Massachusetts and parts between to sell pictures at events. People often ask how to order pictures after the event, but the orders never come.

There's a reason that photo vendors, from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway to the GNCC off-road series to countless small tracks, put extra effort to make pictures available at the track, at the race, on the spot. The best place to make picture sales is at the event, and you need to make the fresh product available right away.

One acquaintance who has found the way to make event sales work brings at least two Olympus dye-sublimation printers to each race he works. Another organization has a similar setup right at trackside, where no one can miss the pictures. They work hard to make fresh samples available of the day's action, hour by hour, so no one can miss the opportunity to purchase their products.

Again: the sames of event pictures are impulse purchases. If you give potential customers too much reason to not see what you have available and don't work to make sales at the track. you won't make sales later on.

[Peacefield]

I'm coming late to this thread but thought I'd chime in. I'm always doing vintage races (one is coming to NJ this weekend). Everytime, I've made my images available to the drivers. So far, I've sold exactly, ummm, NO images! You have to remember, if these people have the kind of money that it takes to not only race but race in vintage automobiles, they and/or one of their friends probably have a nice camera, too. They almost certainly already have a ton of images of themselves and their cars tooling around the track. So to make a sale, the images will need to be absolutely stunning or unusual. Your images are very nice, but nothing that I would characterize as stunning or unusual.

As others have suggested, your site also could stand to be organized better as well as have more visual appeal. It looks like it's Zenfolio? If so, that's what I use too and they've had some spectacular upgrades recently that will allow you to take better control over how your site looks and works; it's worth the time to consider what those capabilities can do for you.

Finally, I would suggest lower print prices. Your prices aren't too high for the stunning and unusual, but probably a little off the mark for the more ordinary. I'm a wedding photographer who shoots motorsports for giggles. I don't sell any motorsports, but I sell A LOT of wedding prints, more than many of my contemporaries. That is due in part because I price them more agressively. I'd rather sell 100 8x10's per wedding at $7.99 then sell 10 at $17.99.

And back to motorsports, I imagine you do it for the same reason we all do it; it's FUN! If you sell a few, the money is probably not as valuable as the acknowledgment by those who are willing to pay for them that you done good. And if you don't sell any, well, at least it was still fun.

All offered in a cordial spirit, of course.

[Apexer]

Thanks to all for your time.

Peacefield nailed it as far as shooting motorsports out of passion v. profit, but.....it is nice to get the confirmation of your work.

I will try the CC offered here, other than selling at the venue. At this stage of the game its just not financially or schedule friendly. My plan is to focus more on photography when I retire in 8 years and use "now" to study and hone the craft.

[Methodical]

How ironic. That's how I feel. I'd like to do sports photography one day so I will sharpen up now and maybe go hard when I retire...in 12 years. Whereas wildlife and bird photography is my passions and past time...relaxation.

...At this stage of the game its just not financially or schedule friendly. My plan is to focus more on photography when I retire in 8 years and use "now" to study and hone the craft.

[Apexer]

How ironic. That's how I feel. I'd like to do sports photography one day so I will sharpen up now and maybe go hard when I retire...in 12 years. Whereas wildlife and bird photography is my passions and past time...relaxation.

Hmmm...this trend might make a good discussion thread all by itself - or maybe it has been a topic in the past.

Thanks again, y'all rock. = )

[Flores]

I've seen one fellow at the track that has an interesting tack: an 8x10 is $85 at the event. or you can have a CD with all your shots for $100.

He sells a LOT of CDs. Of course, he also has some help. he essentially has identified what people want, put a price on it, and offered his services in a way that causes the vast majority of his customers to buy what he is setup to easily sell. He has a helper in his trailer sorting pics as they come in, and usually has a nice line of folks wanting to preview the shots before buying a CD and taking it home. (He got $100 of my money :D )

business 101 :D

[int2str]

Apexer, a few more points about your shots:

Most of them (almost all, actually) are direct side shots. They lack some "pop" and are overall not all that interesting. If I was the one driving, I would not buy the images either. I think the frontal or 3/4 shots coming out of a corner are much more interesting. Try to get more of those kinds of shots and move around as suggested.

Also, if you're not selling right at the track, maybe some quick post-processing to add some "pop" would be in order?

[int2str]

This is the kind of angle I'm talking about (not a good example for post processing, though):

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_uFrS5yCiGps/Sr_xVkeJvXI/AAAAAAAAL78/dhTXG3vPVIA/s1024/DPP_0020.JPG

[Flores]

the less the car looks like it's parked on the track, the better!

[Apexer]

the less the car looks like it's parked on the track, the better!

Exactly.

I guess I like a wider shot that gives context to where the car is, and I like the background blurred. But its not about me, its what the customer wants. I love the challenge of panning and I like the effect. I see it as a niche in a market that is FLOODED with images like the one directly above. There were two other photographers there and all they did ( that I saw ) was park at an entrance to a corner and capture cars head on in the front straight, or into / out of a turn. I was the only one who took shots in the pits also. I kicked myself for not doing more shooting in the pits - it was fun and its own challenge.

I met one of the photographers and he said he has been shooting local racers for over 20 years. He is a great guy and his work is fantastic. The vast majority of his work is just like the shot above, which reinforced my drive to focus on panning.

I need to get in tighter to please the customer and my compadres here ( your opinions are valued ). I look forward to the greater challenge of a tighter shot as well.

[int2str]

Exactly.
I guess I like a wider shot that gives context to where the car is, and I like the background blurred.

You totally missed the point. I was showing an angle, not a "great picture". You are free to drag the shutter/pan in a turn as well. Here's an example:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i42/Kevbuts/GT3-012WPPro.jpg

But its not about me, its what the customer wants. I love the challenge of panning and I like the effect.

I hope you see the contradiction in those two sentences ;)

I see it as a niche in a market that is FLOODED with images like the one directly above. There were two other photographers there and all they did ( that I saw ) was park at an entrance to a corner and capture cars head on in the front straight, or into / out of a turn.

Maybe they made the sale? ;)
You've been defensive about every bit of advice given here, yet you claim you're frustrated... Apparently there's nothing wrong with your pictures, your customers are just not "getting it", huh?

I'm behind a steering wheel/handle bars much more than I'm behind the camera. I can give you the perspective from the buyer side of things. And honestly, I would not consider buying your shots for a second.

Panning shots are great - when done right. Frankly, yours are not. To be bold, your panning shots look slightly better than snapshots. Here's an example of a panning shot that I'd gladly buy (if it was of me):

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i42/Kevbuts/GT3-011WPPro.jpg

Though I would ask the photographer to crop it a bit tighter.

I met one of the photographers and he said he has been shooting local racers for over 20 years. He is a great guy and his work is fantastic. The vast majority of his work is just like the shot above, which reinforced my drive to focus on panning.

Everybody (including me) said to move around. If I do a track event (which I do), sure I like panning shots, but I'd also want one where you could actually see that it was me at the wheel.

You're way to married to your one little panning shot - which you've far from perfected. Go tighter and mix it up.

Or keep being defensive and wait for your sales :p

[Apexer]

If we were at a table discussing this I dont think I would have come across as defensive. Have a good one.

Mark

[KennyG]

Typing as someone who has photographed motorpsport for 32 years may I suggest you ask drivers/riders in the paddock what THEY want before you even put your eye to the viewfinder. The best selling technique is to give the customer what he needs.

Be inventive, not only in where you shoot, but also experiment with the height of shot. The background is also very important - avoid cones! As said above, move around, experiment with every foot of the circuit using the lighting to best effect. Panning from the inside entry into a corner is far more interesting than on a straight as it shows not only the speed, but the angles and g-forces. There are a lot of things you can do to improve your work, just be prepared to go the extra mile.

Lastly, don't expect because you have a good shot that a driver/rider will automatically buy it. You have to put as much, if not more work into marketing and selling.

[neil_r]

Kenny is bang on, I spend a significant amount of time in the padock and there is no need to be pushy as drivers often want to talk to you, they will often ask you to look out for them and tell you what they want, the key things are they want to be able to see themselves, a shot of the car is great but a shot of them driving the car is better, they want action and to look like they are on the edge. When you are setting the shots up do look at the background as that is often what can either make or spoil a shot. Get some good business cards made and hand them out when you are doing the rounds of the paddock. I often get emails in advance of meetings now from drivers telling me they will be there and asking me to look out for them.

You do have to start with a great image but it is the marketing that brings in the sales.

[Apexer]

Thank you, Neil and Ken !

[ryant35]

After reading this thread I noticed nobody made a comment to help your panning. The faster the cars are moving the better. If you cannot keep the car sharp when panning at 1/160 then shoot at a faster shutter speed and a faster section of track. Try 1/250 to start with and actually get some sharp images, that will help with your confidence to try and shoot with a slower shutter speed.

Shooting track days like this is difficult, it's not easy to make a Volvo look cool on a race track. If you cannot get closer to the track, or inside a turn you might want to consider renting a longer lens.

Also the half framed cars only works when you have a long enough lens to fill the frame with the first half of the car, and keep the interesting parts in the frame that show the speed.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k173/ryant35/LOORRS%202010%205/IMG_6991.jpg

[Methodical]

Check out this thread (Best panning shots)...you should get some ideas over at this thread:http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=325181

[Lowner]

As a rank amateur I've read every word with great interest. I have to agree that the average panned shot of a car square across the frame with a blurred background makes me yawn, I've seen too many of them, even if the wheels show that they are actually turning.

I can only say that if I was in the market for images of myself on track, they would need to be a lot better than my photographer mates would offer me them free of charge. Motor sport is no different to any other sporting event. I know many sailing event 'togs and its hard work to make a living from. As a case in point I've only ever bought one 8x10 sailing image in my life.

[neil_r]

Drivers / Riders like to be able to see that it is them doing the work, whilst the most successful pictures in terms of sales are not always the very best motorsport images there are definitely some standards that sell well.

http://www.ambrosiabbs.com/gallery/photo/medium/MotoGrande_Mallory_June_10_NHR9336.jpg

[Picturesports]

I’m coming in so late here that people might not even read this (I’ll be late for my own funeral) … Interesting thread and a subject of much debate. Yes, everyone will say that they are as busy as anything, however I’d suggest that the market has changed significantly over the past few years – so much so that even the most die hard photographers – the people who have been at tracks for years are now openly talking about their day jobs. Something that once would have been unthinkable. Owning up to being a part timer who does it on the side would have not gone down well at all with those of us with mortgages to pay.

It is a really interesting mix of reasons why photos sell – style of shots – immediate satisfaction sale – web site facilities – price, but for me it all boils down to one thing, personal contact. I’ve seen average work sell and people sing from the rafter about what a top notch photographer some one is when all it really did is show how limited their knowledge of photography was. If seen some really talented people, people who can produce stunning art from a grubby club meeting at a shabby track, get absolutely nowhere and give up. I’ve invested in web site technology, spent hours making the buying process easier and simpler and seen only a margin increase in sales.

None of these things will make sales. The bottom line tends to be that unless you have a paying reason to be there (some one paid you to go or has ordered photos up front) you are unlikely to make sales. Yes there are exceptions to this, some of the event photographers work like a one armed paper hangers in a breeze to make it pay and I’m impressed. So why is the norm a lack of sales? I guess there are hundreds of reasons but here are mine ….

‘My mate has a camera’ – Digital photography made taking photos simple. In doing so peoples perceptions of what is a good photo have fallen. With respect to all, just take a look though POTN – Some of the photos are stunning and some are … well….errr exactly. Yet to the photographer that took the photo it is a killer shot and there are 5 people who will agree with him.

‘Passes with Cereal Packets’ - It use to be that media passes where handed out for a reason, increasingly it seems anyone with a bit of front can get one or at least try. Some editors will back anyone in return for free photos – after all what do they care. You pay to go, you have a good day and you give them photos. Each and everyone of us started somewhere and like everyone else I started with nothing except a desire to get in. However it cost money when I started – film –chemicals – paper, so I needed to have a reason to close the shutter. Now, thanks to the amazing advancements in technology you blaze away for “free” and e-mail a file. You were going to the race anyway, so swapping a few photos for an editors letter that saves you the cost of the entrance fee – neat !

Think I’m wrong?? I was speaking to the media lady at one of the race circuits in the UK who told me that dealing with freelance press accreditation for the British Touring Car Championship took around 80 hours for one round. The series has season accredited photographers and retained photography team. The series run a media service supplying images – so why are so may people applying for passes? If you need a pass , you already have one. Amazingly (well not actually) a few weeks later at a club meeting, there were 5 photographers signed on.

Web sites, ours included – Like everyone we track the hits on the web site. Come Monday there is a spike in browsing traffic and another on Thursday and Friday afternoons. Why buy the image when you can see it online for the next year or so. There are even people who hot link to the thumbnail images on our site and show them on their web sites, but lets not go down the copyright infringement path – it has all been said 10 times over.

Perceived cost/Market Rate/Actual cost – I was at an Italian F3 meeting recently and listened to one of the photographers making his pitch – Every photo of you on CD for 50 euros per round or 500 euros for the season. If you are taking it seriously then you have two cameras – a couple or 4 lenses – web site costs – insurance on your kit, public liability and indemnity and production costs in terms of time and effort. Serious or fun you have travel, accommodation and time invested in each race meeting. Add all of this together for a season and I reckoned he had to get over half the grid to agree to this deal before he was even close to breaking even. As always there were other photographers with similar deals all of whom where up against the retained series photographer.

They are all competing on price and having established that quality isn’t the main issue any more, the ever increasing number of people getting in to motorsport photography thinking it is glamorous and they can make a living at it – all that happens is that the market implodes.

How do you stop this impacting on your business – contacts. People come to you before the event with a reason for you to be there and ask you to supply them with images. These are the people you need to cultivate if you would like it to be anything other than fun.

That said, even the race series are getting in on the act – I was offered some work recently and part of the deal with the series organiser before they would issue a press pass – even though I hold a media passes from the motor sport governing body – was that I would be required to give them 10 images for their use from the meeting – free and clear – no fees. The series organisers point of view being that every other vendor pays for a “pitch” they have to pay for the track hire and all of the other costs so why should I be allow to turn up take photos for a client and get paid without them getting a taste. Now sometimes this is a good thing to do - “share the love” – as someone once put it and if they are good people the arrangement comes back to help you along. However increasingly photography, for all the reasons above, is just seen as a no cost activity undertaken by a bunch of people who take up administrative resources and should be paying like everyone else.

Last on my ever so long post (sorry about that) is the people you think you might sell to. An editor of a magazine I was drinking with and trying to convert to one of those nice people who orders before the event, explained that if he spent 500 GBP (650 USD) on images per issue the publisher wanted to know why. The editor and some of the staff could turn a press release in to a story and most of the press releases came with free for media use images. The various series provided a media service (copy and images) and manufacturers provided good quality images to show their products off in the best possible way. In short, his freelance purchasing budget was 10% of what it once was.

So, as I finally shut up, let me put all of this in context …. Should it be a closed shop – No. It is free market and anyone willing to do the work deserves a chance. What they charge and how they structure their deals is up to them. We can only hope they have done their home work. Should it be harder to get a press/media pass – yes but because it is getting silly not to keep anyone out who wants to do this for a living and has a reason to have a pass. I watched in horror at one event as people stood in the pit lane with cameras during the pit stops. Not in the garages or on the pit wall but actually in the pit lane. And if race series do not what to do the admin associated with photographers, then let the governing bodies do it – they already do so why reinvent the process.

Coming all the way back to the original point – why won’t anyone buy? – you are a member of a distinguished club – if you find the answer, sell it to the hundreds of other photographer that would like to know 

I type too much

[Flores]

I'm just a newbie too. These are from my 2nd attempt to get paid to shoot pictures...

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_WsLuAe3fKfg/TBcBkOK4VzI/AAAAAAAAKUc/yF019m8brSE/s720/IMG_1081.JPG

this just sold for $10 as a download from an event I shot 2 weekends ago... <shrug> I don't know what to tell you. It wasn't even what I would have considered the 'best' shot out of the ones I got of him.

But, there were NO other photographers at this event... so maybe, just maybe, the trick, when your starting out, is to shoot for something that is under covered, but still has some kind of demand. I average about 6 usable shots per car, of about 80 cars. I had about a 85% 'keeper' rate, thanks to the nature of the event (one car at a time through a section, predictable line and speed, just what you want to get consistent panning shots)

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_WsLuAe3fKfg/TBBBT_uFDBI/AAAAAAAAKcw/vY6dAJ6_l14/s640/IMG_1212-8x10%2Bcleanwindow.jpg

this one got sold as an 8x10 & on the driver's CD...

[shayneyasinski]

I too am trying to sell photos to drivers and last year SUCKED!!! I sold about 3 ....

this year I took a different approach and order prints of all the cars and offer a set of the same pic in an 12x18, 8x12, and 2 4x6 and sell this for about $50 and my cost is about $4.25 ordered from costco.

what happens is that they see big pictures and buy them where befor my website and dvds of proofs went unseen or if they did see them they did not buy.

the few I dont sell get sold to fans or put on my shop wall.

I shoot stock cars racing on a dirt oval and it has been discussed with the drivers that I can shoot and sell to them or anyone at my discretion.

[shayneyasinski]

One more thing..

You need to crop in more and like others said mix it up and get different shots.

As a selling tool I suggest to drivers that my prints given to sponsors help with getting repeat sponsorships as they can display a pic of the car they sponsor.