Flash photos with 1d mk11 look jaundiced

[AliAyson]

Why do all the subjects of my flash photos, taken with my 1d Mk ii, look like they are jaundiced? I have a Canon 10D which I absolute love so I decided to upgrade to a 1d Mark ii. I've regretted that decision ever since. I know it's got to be "operator error", but I've had the 1d mark ii for over 3 months now and, so far, I cannot get consistently good photos. Even in very bright sunlight I often get blurry or underexposed photos (this is all modes, P, TV, AV ).

The flash photos are by far the worst. Maybe it's the flash I have (220 EX Speedlite)? How can the little teeny tiny 10D flash take better flash photos than the 220 EX with my 1d mark ii.

I'm seriously thinking of selling my 1d Mark ii and getting a 20D instead. I hate the 1d mark ii. I guess I should have taken my personality into account when I was thinking of a 1d mark ii over a 20d. I don't have a lot of patience and, though it seems somehow more romantic <<for lack of a better word>> to think of myself with this professional camera taking awesome photos...in reality you need to know what the hell you are doing (apparently) before you can get those awesome shots (and getting to the point where you know what you are doing takes a lot of hard work).

There's no full "auto" on the 1d markii like there is on the 10D and 20D. You'd think I'd be able to take a least a few good shots with my mark ii, even if only by accident!

Boy do I feel like an idiot.

So..how can I get better flash photos with my 1d mark ii???

And, is any else out there having problems moving from a 10D or 20D to a mark II..or am I the only one?

-- Alison

[guitarman]

Why do all the subjects of my flash photos, taken with my 1d Mk ii, look like they are jaundiced? I have a Canon 10D which I absolute love so I decided to upgrade to a 1d Mark ii. I've regretted that decision ever since. I know it's got to be "operator error", but I've had the 1d mark ii for over 3 months now and, so far, I cannot get consistently good photos. Even in very bright sunlight I often get blurry or underexposed photos (this is all modes, P, TV, AV ).

The flash photos are by far the worst. Maybe it's the flash I have (220 EX Speedlite)? How can the little teeny tiny 10D flash take better flash photos than the 220 EX with my 1d mark ii.

I'm seriously thinking of selling my 1d Mark ii and getting a 20D instead. I hate the 1d mark ii. I guess I should have taken my personality into account when I was thinking of a 1d mark ii over a 20d. I don't have a lot of patience and, though it seems somehow more romantic <<for lack of a better word>> to think of myself with this professional camera taking awesome photos...in reality you need to know what the hell you are doing (apparently) before you can get those awesome shots (and getting to the point where you know what you are doing takes a lot of hard work).

There's no full "auto" on the 1d markii like there is on the 10D and 20D. You'd think I'd be able to take a least a few good shots with my mark ii, even if only by accident!

Boy do I feel like an idiot.

So..how can I get better flash photos with my 1d mark ii???

And, is any else out there having problems moving from a 10D or 20D to a mark II..or am I the only one?

-- Alison

I get some really good photos by accident on my 20D:lol:

[robertwgross]

Why do all the subjects of my flash photos, taken with my 1d Mk ii, look like they are jaundiced?

First of all, can you come up with a more descriptive term?

Do you mean that there is a color shift, or do you mean that all shots are underexposed?

Also, you stated modes Tv, Av, P, etc. What about M?

I guess that you know that the 220EX is not a very powerful flash unit, and it has no bells and whistles.

---Bob Gross---

[AliAyson]

the best descriptive term I can come up with is that most of my subjects seem to have a "yellow" tint to them. I can make the photos look much better by going into photoshop and adjusting the brightness, but I'd rather not have to do this every single time...it would be nice if I could get the mark ii to take the picture with the right exposure(or whatever you want to call it) the first time.

As for whether or not I've tried Manual (M) mode, the answer is "yes" (forgot to include that one, sorry).

I have tried increasing the flash exposure compensation a few stops, but it didn't make any difference at all. I then tried changing C.Fn-14 to average flash exposure reading (1) instead of evaulative metering; again, no difference.

I guess I just need a more expensive flash?

-- Alison

[Bob_A]

If you increase FEC by two stops I would expect your images to be totally blown out unless you are so far away from your subject that your flash doesn't have enough power. I wouldn't think that you would need to add more than 1 1/3 stops FEC ... typically less (i.e., 2/3 stop).

When using flash I was getting a yellow cast when in bounce mode in a small room with yellowish or cream colored walls. I purchased a Lumiquest 80/20 bounce flash diffuser and the problem was cured. By the way, you are using auto white balance (AWB) ... right?

Lots of us would be happy to help you regarding your outdoors "blurry, underexposed" images. Just post a few examples with the exif info.

[AliAyson]

ok...at the risk of sounding like an absolute idiot, I want to make sure I'm using the correct method for increasing my FEC. On page 98 of the EOS 1D Mark II manual there is a blurb out "Flash Exposure Compensation" which says:

"In the same way as normal exposure compensation, you can set exposure compensation for flash. Set flash exposure compensation up to +/- 3 stops in 1/3 stop increments"

Ok, well..as far as I can tell from reading the manual...you set exposure compensation by either turning the large dial on the back of the camera (by the rear LCD), after you've pressed the shutter halfway -- OR -- you can hit the "+/-" button by the top LCD and turn the dial on top of the camera.

I tried the second method (hitting the "+/-" button and spinning the dial), and I did indeed see that the exposure compensation changed to a +1 (then tried +2 and finally +3), but I saw absolutely no difference at all in the photos I took at the different stops. I was taking close up shots of my 4-year old daughter who was asleep on the floor, so I know the exposure problem wasn't due to being too far away (or her moving <-- not that this would change the exposure).

Indeed, when I look at the photos with the "EOS Viewer Utility" software, I could see my exposure compensation settings (+1, +2, +3).

So, just to make sure I understand, there isn't a seperate "Flash Exposure Compensation" setting? Exposure compensation settings are applicable to whatever mode you are using (flash or normal)...right???

[Tom W]

To set Flash Exposure compensation, hold down the FEC button located on the top, lefthand side of the camera (closest button towards you) and turn the rear dial. You should see the +/- movement either in the viewfinder or the top LCD on the right side. Try bumping up flash exposure by about 2/3 stops first.

For the purpose of testing, shoot in P or M with some typical safe settings (f/4-5.6, 1/60 sec). Make sure the flash has fresh batteries. Some Canon flash units will begin to lose their range as the batteries weaken, but long before they indicate a battery problem, resulting in weak flash. Use either Auto WB or set it manually to flash.

It sounds like you've been setting the regular exposure compensation instead of flash exposure compensation which is a separate function. The wording in the manual is apparently not very clear.

[AliAyson]

I have one more question about the ETTLII Flash system. I read that a test pre-flash is fired immediately before the shutter is released. Is this something that's so quick you can't tell if it's pre-flashing? Or should you be able to see the pre-flash? I have no idea if my mark ii is pre-flashing or not. My canon 10d would fire an obvious pre-flash in very low light conditions in order to focus, but I don't believe this is the same thing.

Ive tried using the FEL button to get a better exposure, but no luck so far.

[Tom W]

I have one more question about the ETTLII Flash system. I read that a test pre-flash is fired immediately before the shutter is released. Is this something that's so quick you can't tell if it's pre-flashing? Or should you be able to see the pre-flash? I have no idea if my mark ii is pre-flashing or not. My canon 10d would fire an obvious pre-flash in very low light conditions in order to focus, but I don't believe this is the same thing.

Ive tried using the FEL button to get a better exposure, but no luck so far.

Focus pre-flash as on the 10D is a different function. The preflash for exposure is very quick and is of a lower brightness compared to the normal flash output. It is just enough light output for the computer in the camera to calculate the required flash output.

FEL is "flash exposure Lock" - the FEC button is the same button you use to set the metering mode [(.)]. I can't draw the symbol with my keyboard, but it has a lightning bolt next to +/-.

[AliAyson]

Oooooohhhhhh....that's where you set the exposure for flash! You're right, the manual is not clear at all. Of course, now that you tell me where the button is I can find it's definition at the beginning of the manual (where all the buttons, dials, etc. are outlined).

I knew I was doing something wrong! But I couldn't for the life of me determine exactly how to change the flash exposure. I even have another book "Magic Latern Guide: Canon EOS 1D Mark II", and it doesn't tell you how to change the flash exposure either.

THANK YOU! I'd try it out right now except that I've taken so many flash photos (in an effort to figure out what I'm doing wrong) that the battery is dead and I'm having to charge it.

THANKS AGAIN!

[Tom W]

Oooooohhhhhh....that's where you set the exposure for flash! You're right, the manual is not clear at all. Of course, now that you tell me where the button is I can find it's definition at the beginning of the manual (where all the buttons, dials, etc. are outlined).

I knew I was doing something wrong! But I couldn't for the life of me determine exactly how to change the flash exposure. I even have another book "Magic Latern Guide: Canon EOS 1D Mark II", and it doesn't tell you how to change the flash exposure either.

THANK YOU! I'd try it out right now except that I've taken so many flash photos (in an effort to figure out what I'm doing wrong) that the battery is dead and I'm having to charge it.

THANKS AGAIN!

The 1D Mk II is an awesome, flexible camera, but it also has a great deal of complexity. Many of the most used controls require holding a button on the left top while manipulating either the main dial or the rear dial. Once you get used to them, they're pretty easy to manipulate without looking at the camera.

If you're used to the images that come out of the 10D, you might consider working through the menu and setting things up a little differently on the 1D Mk II than what the camera is set to as a default. I'd recommend bumping the sharpness up to 3 or 4, raise the color saturation all the way, and raise the contrast to +1. That will get you somewhat close to the defaults on the 10D. As you get used to the camera, you can make some setting changes to suit your desires.

PS - get those batteries charged (camera and flash) and give it a good workout tomorrow.

[AliAyson]

You know, I used to think I was reasonably intelligent until I bought this camera. But you'd never know it from my complete inability to understand this little black box with a lens on it. Sigh.....I'm glad that there is no test on this (ha!)

Thanks again to everyone who replied, both for your helpful info and (mostly) for not making me feel stupider (is that a word?) than I already do.

[Tom W]

You know, I used to think I was reasonably intelligent until I bought this camera. But you'd never know it from my complete inability to understand this little black box with a lens on it. Sigh.....I'm glad that there is no test on this (ha!)

Thanks again to everyone who replied, both for your helpful info and (mostly) for not making me feel stupider (is that a word?) than I already do.

The test is Monday. :)

Don't feel unintelligent - it's a very different animal from the 10D. I had a 10D after shooting an Elan II film camera for a couple of years and they operated almost the same. I basically picked up the 10D and started shooting. The 1D MK II is quite different, and it's not as easy to pick up and just shoot. Controls are designed to prevent accidental manipulation, which makes them more complex, but also a bit less intuitive. Take some time to get familiar with it and you'll be well on your way.

[Sherlockoam]

I just upgraded from 20D to 1D MkII a few days ago. I found no problem with a flash photography with 1D MkII at all. Like in 20D, my 580EX works very accurately, probably thanks to E-TTL II.

May be the 220EX doesn't serve full capabilities of 1D MkII, I think....

[Huckaback Photo]

Tom
well done mate just read this through and thought you did a great job with the info.

Alison
stick with it, there is quite a steep learning curve with this camera and will pay dividends when mastered.
in a word I think there is better info here than trying to gleam from the manual.
I really don't think the 220 ex flash is the right tool on that camera, I use the latest 580 ex with my 1D mk 2 and find it much better than my 550 ex .

Do not be frightened of using high ISO settings results are great, this will also allow faster shutter speeds.
the use of CF4 has been a great improvement and would recomend it to all, try it if you don't have this set up already. lots on here about it. do a search

Cheers
Martin (Huckaback Photo)

[scottbergerphoto]

My experience with the 1DM2 and 550EX is that it is a highly accurate and consistent combination. It helps to fully understand how ETTLII works and how ambient and flash exposure combine to make an image. FEC is always indicated by a button with lightening bolt on it and a +/-.
Here is a test I did when I first got my 1DM2:
http://www.pbase.com/scottbergerphoto/1d_mark_ii_flash_test

[AliAyson]

Just a quick note to Tom and everyone else. I played around with the flash photos first thing this morning, using Tom's suggestions for sharpness, contrast and color saturation. I also was to change the FLASH exposure compensation, now that I knew how to change it (thanks Bob). I was able to take much improved flash pics, though I do believe that the 220 EX is not the right flash for this camera and I'll going to look into the 550 EX.

Thanks again to everyone, I'm feeling much better about my 1D now. I still have some issues with the sharpness (even with the sharpness set all the way to 5), but those "softer" images only seem to crop up in low light conditions so, again, it's something to do with the settings and I just haven't found the right combo.

[Marvinspu36]

Thanks again to everyone, I'm feeling much better about my 1D now. I still have some issues with the sharpness (even with the sharpness set all the way to 5), but those "softer" images only seem to crop up in low light conditions so, again, it's something to do with the settings and I just haven't found the right combo.

Regarding blurry photos in lower light conditions:

Here a couple of things that may help in reducing blurring due to camera movement, which is especially troublesome in low light:

1. Set your shutter speed to at least 1/f, where f=focal length. For example, if you have set your focal length to 85mm, then you should use a shutter speed of at least 1/85. I tend to use an even faster shutter speed when ever possible.

2. If the lighting is too low to use a fast enough shutter speed (see above) at low ISO's, increase your ISO setting until you can get the propper shutterspeed. With my 20D I can shoot with ISO settings up to 1600 with only minor post processing to reduce noise. Up to ISO 400 images require no noise removal. ISO 800 is pretty clean, and depending on the situation, may not require post processing to remove noise. ISO 1600 requires some post processing. In a pinch, I will use ISO 3200, which requires noise removal, but images come out OK.

3. If increasing the ISO does not let you get a fast enough shutter speed (1/f), then use a tripod or monopod.

4. Press the shutter relase as gently as possible, or use a shutter release cable.

Experiment in a controlled setting and see what the different settings do for you. There is no better way to learn, than to shoot, shoot, shoot!

Hope this helps

[Bob_A]

Regarding blurry photos in lower light conditions:

Here a couple of things that may help in reducing blurring due to camera movement, which is especially troublesome in low light:

1. Set your shutter speed to at least 1/f, where f=focal length. For example, if you have set your focal length to 85mm, then you should use a shutter speed of at least 1/85. I tend to use an even faster shutter speed when ever possible.



Further to what you have said, if I'm taking candids of people I set my shutterspeed to no slower than 1/250s no matter what the focal length is (i.e., even at 70mm), because of blur due to subject movement. When I take pictures of my kids running around the yard I use a shutterspeed no slower than 1/500s.

For all other situations (using my 20D) I use 1/(focal length x 1.6) as the rough guideline for the slowest shutterspeed for handheld shooting.

[AliAyson]

I have to say "thanks" again to all the wonderful advice everyone has given. I'm able to get much better flash photos (and I've ordered a 550 EX Speedlite). I also was able to use some of the low light settings advice today when I took pictures in San Francisco (lots of fog). The pictures turned out great (not at first..but, well, read on...)

Tonight when I was looking at my downloaded pics from SF, I was, at first, totally disappointed. Though I used all the advice I've gleaned from this forum and was extremely careful, the photos still looked "soft", even after sharpening with Photoshop. However, I happened to have my laptop and desktop up at the same time, with both monitors side by side, working on some files. All of a sudden it dawned on me that the filename characters on my desktop monitor, the desktop I always use to download pictures to, were much blurrier than the filename characters on my laptop monitor. I thought "Oh no..don't tell me that this whole time I've been stressing out needlessly! Don't tell me it's my monitor?!!". Sure enough, the monitor was set to a very low resolution. As soon as I upped the resolution the pictures looked much much sharper; in fact, they looked great! (DUH!)

I'd seen other postings in which monitor settings were mentioned, but it didn't occur to me to check mine because my monitor was a brand new flat screen monitor, thus I didn't think the blurriness could be due to it. However, unbeknownst to me, my wonderful husband (who'll I'll stab to death later), changed the settings on my monitor (yes, he has his own monitor) without telling me. Why he didn't think to mention this when I showed him, time and time again, the "soft" photos (which he agreed were "soft"), I'll never know.

Sigh.... Oh well, he's making it up to me by paying for the 550 EX Flash I ordered (<-- he just doesn't know it yet.);)

[Fooboy]

That is classic. :lol:

Thanks for sharing that. Reminds me that we are all human :)

A 1D MkII with 580ex still requires a bit of care to get good results, but I'm confident that you will not be dissapointed with your (or your husband's) new purchase

[robertwgross]

Tonight when I was looking at my downloaded pics from SF, I was, at first, totally disappointed.
...
I thought "Oh no..don't tell me that this whole time I've been stressing out needlessly! Don't tell me it's my monitor?!!".

First of all, photos taken in the fog should look a little soft, shouldn't they?

I think you will find it important to get one computer set up one way and calibrated, and then lock it down and don't fool with it afterward. For critical photo editing, this is important.

Once I sent some email photos to a client, and the client was asking for all sorts of wild exposure changes. It turned out that the client's monitor was completely wrong. It had been set up for high contrast for a word processor.

---Bob Gross---

[SabrinaDionne]

The 1D Mk II is an awesome, flexible camera, but it also has a great deal of complexity. Many of the most used controls require holding a button on the left top while manipulating either the main dial or the rear dial. Once you get used to them, they're pretty easy to manipulate without looking at the camera.

If you're used to the images that come out of the 10D, you might consider working through the menu and setting things up a little differently on the 1D Mk II than what the camera is set to as a default. I'd recommend bumping the sharpness up to 3 or 4, raise the color saturation all the way, and raise the contrast to +1. That will get you somewhat close to the defaults on the 10D. As you get used to the camera, you can make some setting changes to suit your desires.

PS - get those batteries charged (camera and flash) and give it a good workout tomorrow.

I am having the same problem with the color issue. I changed my setting (sharpness and contrast) where do I change the color saturation?
One more thing. What is the best resolution to have a monitor set to?

I am so happy I have found this forum, all your questions and answers are helping me so much... I know now I am not alone :)

[Jon]

One more thing. What is the best resolution to have a monitor set to?

Sort of depends on the monitor. If it's an LCD display, it should be set at the manufacturer's design resolution. If it's a CRT, the best resolution is whatever you can see best. But what Bob was talking about wasn't the resolution as much as the monitor's colour calibration and contrast.

[SabrinaDionne]

Sort of depends on the monitor. If it's an LCD display, it should be set at the manufacturer's design resolution. If it's a CRT, the best resolution is whatever you can see best. But what Bob was talking about wasn't the resolution as much as the monitor's colour calibration and contrast.

Ok, I thought there was a better resolution for viewing photos.
Now the above leads me to the next question.
I have a LCD monitor. I have heard many things some pro some not on the calibration on monitors. So I ask, "What is the best way to calibrate the LCD monitor?" And then comes the printer, how do I get them to see the same color.
Is there a great book to read on printing.
Printer : Canon i9900

Thanks for the help,
Sabrina

[Jon]

Calibrating the monitor and printer . . . best way is with one of the toolsets designed just for that. Monaco, Colorvision Spyder, Gretag-Macbeth are all good.

[SabrinaDionne]

Ok, well I have the Spyder pro. Just been kind of scared to use it, Had heard good things about calibration then heard some negative so I wanted to get the scoop before I used it. lol... seems I did it backwards, should have scooped first !

[cdesperado]

One thing I would like to point out about monitors.... the MONITOR CABLE.

I have a very unusual studio set up and my desktop PCs are actually standing far to the side of several desks. A few years ago, I used a simple extension cable to span the distance (about 10 feet). About a year ago, I began using that monitor for a quick little graphics project and I noticed that the monitor clarity was suffering. To be precise, there were serious ghosting issues with the text as well as ghosted elements within images.


To make a long story short,

1. Monitor cables can and will go bad over time.
2. Dont use extension cables (male to female/female to male extenders).
3. Whenever possible, use specialized monitor cables for improved clarity.