Win7 tablets are dead - Streak first real opposition to iPad?

[hollis_f]

Well, it seems that everybody's admitting that Windows 7 and Tablet PCs (http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?z2846307829&z=950244168) is a match made in hell. Even that doyen of all things Gatesish - Dell - have abandoned MS in favour of Google for their new tablet series - The Streak (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10146000.stm). Not sure about the 5" version - a bit big for a phone and a bit small for a tablet - but the 10" certainly looks like it could give the iPad a run for its money, especially if the price is right.

[S2K.OGRAPHY]

it doesnt matter how good the competitors are, apple fanboys are for life

[hollis_f]

it doesnt matter how good the competitors are, apple fanboys are for life

I'm not sure who are worse, the Apple Fanboiz or the Apple Haters. There seem to be enough of them to gaurantee the success of the Streak if they all buy one.

[gcogger]

I'm not sure who are worse, the Apple Fanboiz or the Apple Haters.

I think that covers at least 90% of the population!

:)

[Moppie]

These devices are all about consuming content, they serve no other purpose.
They are too small and under powered to create content.

This means they will live or die based on the content, how easy it is to access and how affordable it is.
So far Apple, with their very closed and tightly controlled system have the content and the supply very well sorted. They also have lots of experience finding and delivering the content, it's not something new to them.

The competitors have a lot to catch up on. They can't yet even decide if content that works on one android device will work on other android devices, or even work out an easily accessible source of content for consumers. But, Android does offer an "open" system, allowing users to choose the same system from a variety of brands and devices.

History has not been kind to closed systems in mass consumer products.
Consumers have traditionally chosen the option that gave them the widest choice over the system that did the best job.
The success of IBM clones, despite better systems from Apple, Amiga and Atari, and the success of VHS vs the superior Beta are excellent examples.
Apples iTunes/apps store however is an exception. Its a very closed system, offers a limited and heavily controlled choice of content, yet has been hugely successful.
If Apple can continue to develop it to ensure consumers are able to access what they want and need (not what Steve says they are allowed), then I can't see a competitor, no matter how good, being able to dominate and win a significant market share.

Then again consumers are funny things, not very rational or predictable and who knows what sort of technology, or business deals the future holds.

[mjmackinnon]

Apples iTunes/apps store however is an exception. Its a very closed system, offers a limited and heavily controlled choice of content, yet has been hugely successful.

But the ipod is not a closed system from the side of content. The ipod success came from a good design and easy to use at a price point that made it popular. Apple was smart and released many different units all based on the same delivery design. You have the clasic ipod, touch, mini, nano, shuffle. All slightly different but gives a bit of choice.

But under all of that, it's main purpose was a portable music player. You can convert all your music to fit onto it. It is still open that you can copy other peoples music easily and put it onto your ipod. I think the secret to success is piracy.

The IBM clone succeeded because of rampant piracy of the software that runs on it. Just like why the Apple ][ was a success as there was a virulent group of people who traded software and so you could cheaply buy a machine and have a low cost source of apps to run on it.

That is why I think that the ipad will not be a success. It doesn't have an open source of 'free' apps that people want to run on it. Yes it can play music but it's too big to be really portable. Yes it can play movies, but a portable DVD player is better designed for that and doesn't require any recoding effort to play. Yes it can do email and browse the internet, but so can a laptop and both are just as portable and we are all use to thinking those activities are a laptop process.

The only thing it has going for it is coolness. But that will quickly fade. It has no killer app that fills a need at low cost.

Matt.

[hollis_f]

That is why I think that the ipad will not be a success. It doesn't have an open source of 'free' apps that people want to run on it.

But it does have a massive selection of apps that people want to run on it. And those that aren't free are, in the main, very, very cheap. Anybody who can afford an iPad isn't going to worry too much about buying apps at £1.50 a time.


but so can a laptop and both are just as portable

Hmmm, even my netbook isn't as easy to use on the move as an iPad. Trying to balance it on my lap when I'm sittin on a crowded train makes it almost unusable.

[Tony-S]

Apples iTunes/apps store however is an exception. Its a very closed system, offers a limited and heavily controlled choice of content, yet has been hugely successful.

The only things about iTunes Store content that is "closed" are the applications, videos and audio books, but this isn't because of Apple, it's because of the developers, movie studios and book publishers.

Any song purchased from the iTunes Store can be played on any device that has AAC decoding. I can put these songs on a USB2 stick or 2.5" hard drive and play them on my Alpine car stereo. Thanks to the success of the iPod and Apple's prodding of the music studios, AAC decoding is present on a large number of devices.

[MaxxuM]

I think the secret to success is piracy.

That has been many software companies methodology in the past; Adobe is a prime example. Until CS4 they did not make it very hard to hack their registration security. It inflates their user base numbers and gets people using your software (and getting hooked). The more expensive the software the more likely they will want you to hack their software. When they get popular enough they'll go to a dongle or a one to one registration method.


That is why I think that the ipad will not be a success. It doesn't have an open source of 'free' apps that people want to run on it. Yes it can play music but it's too big to be really portable. Yes it can play movies, but a portable DVD player is better designed for that and doesn't require any recoding effort to play. Yes it can do email and browse the internet, but so can a laptop and both are just as portable and we are all use to thinking those activities are a laptop process.

The only thing it has going for it is coolness. But that will quickly fade. It has no killer app that fills a need at low cost.

Matt.

The exact same thing was said about the iPhone - yet it's till going strong. I think the word would have gotten out by now if people thought it was a fad/gimmick. I, even find myself wanting to use it every time I see them despite just getting an i7 MBP. Then again, the 'cool' factor has done wonders for many other products (ex. Corvette, Victorian Style and so on). Don't underestimate the power of what's 'in'. Apple has a huge mind share. Like it or not, they 'are' the cool factor.

When you're the most popular/biggest/strongest you will also be the most hated/criticized. Look at Microsoft and Intel. Both have been bullies, both are being sued for billions and both are the big boys on the block. Apple is the little guy with the great product, but that's been changing over the past decade. They're turning into the thing they themselves hated (1984) proving that age old adage, 'power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'. People getting so rialed up about it is part of it. Apple loves it (look at their now retired ad campaign) - it gives focus. Everyone needs an enemy if you're going to keep innovation/cohesion.

[harcosparky]

I wonder what it means to be an Apple " fanboi "?

I use Apple products, I love the ones I have chosen for myself.

There are many Apple products I will steer people away from, as I do not like them.

Apple's operating system? I think it is one of the bests, at least in my 6 years of steady usage it has proven to be the most stable OS I have used on a computer. Well OK, I think Win2K was a pretty stable platform, but MS made a mistake when they merged their Win9x platform and their WinNT platforms to create a single product.

I hear in Windows 7 many problems of the past have been resolved, I'm just glad I bailed on Microsoft when I did, The aggravation some of my friends went though over the last 5-6 years reaffirmed my position.

In the 'consumer' line of notebooks, and even desktops I think Apple has superior " fit and finish ". They may soon have some competition as I have been looking at some Win7 " all in one " units that *might* compete with Apple's iMac. But even the good ones are encased in cheesy looking plastic casings.

As for the iPad, I think 'durability' may be up there as well. My son literally mounted an iPad to the handlebars of his motorcycle and rode from Maryland to Florida and back without any problems. Previously he mounted up two different Netbooks and the self destructed. No he wasn't watching movies or listening to music, he was doing something with it that so far nobody has offered up that they are doing and neither will we .... for now! :D

Does Apple have the " cool factor ", at my age I could walk around with an Apple in each hand, a beautiful girl under each arm and cannot imagine anyone thinking I was 'cool'. I just never thought of using a computer / cell phone as anything " cool ", but I guess a lot of people do.

We were kind of hoping a touchscreen Win7 tablet would have been released as we have a unique purpose for one. As it is now, the iPad is doing the job.

[benesotor]

It's just another device that is totally unnecessary... even less useful than the iPad. Plus it looks more clunky than the iPad... so I don't think Dell will have much success.

Saying that I'd rather buy 500 live chickens than an iPad, I'll keep my Sony Ericsson K800 phone and my Win7 desktop thank you very much :)

[hollis_f]

Well, I'm a happy bunny. It seems that there's a big brown truck driving down the A27 right now with my iPad on board. Soon I'll be able to read PotN without being tied to the desk - sitting on the comfy chair, lying in bed, down the pub, sitting on the... well, maybe not there.

[factorybelt]

Well, I'm a happy bunny. It seems that there's a big brown truck driving down the A27 right now with my iPad on board. Soon I'll be able to read PotN without being tied to the desk - sitting on the comfy chair, lying in bed, down the pub, sitting on the... well, maybe not there.

Keep an open mind, 'there' is an excellent place for web browsing. ;)

[Hen3Ry]

Until CS4 they did not make it very hard to hack their registration security. It inflates their user base numbers and gets people using your software (and getting hooked). The more expensive the software the more likely they will want you to hack their software. When they get popular enough they'll go to a dongle or a one to one registration method.



FYI - it is incredibly easy to hack CS4, and, it appears, CS5 as well. It takes all of about three minutes if you're slow at your keyboard. Of course, you have to figure out the method, but just so you know, there are already hacked copies of CS5 Master Collection available.

PS...don't bother to ask me how. I've written lots of software, and I believe that people who write software should get paid for their work.

[sam80]

Apple sell products based on the following 3 principles:

1. Apples products never brake.

Apple products do break. The support available to replace hardware is very poor. I've never dealt with software support, but the face that it exists proves the Apple products don't go wrong.

2. Mac OS is easy to use.

Mac's tend to appeal to people who struggle to use other operating systems. These people find that the Mac OS is perfect for their use, which is great to hear (the first time)! Overnight these people become computer experts and begin to lecture anyone who doesn't use a Mac on how stupid they are.

3. Apple products are cool.

Yes, very cool products. Which the price reflects. If you choose your electronics based on style and are prepared to pay Apple's prices then why not?


Back on the topic, Apple have become very good at making hardware and optimizing the software to work with that hardware. This may not be a big issue when comparing top end desktops, but it seems to make a real difference with smaller devices such as iPad & Tablet PC. A Windows Tablet PC will run better software than an iPad, but it is designed to be ran on a system with higher spec, and therefore is not optimized for the device. The best example I can use for this, is the battery life of MacBooks compared to MacBooks running Windows, or any other Windows/Linux laptop which shows how much thought has gone into optimizing Mac OS to work on Apple hardware.

I'm rambling now, sorry.

[Tony-S]

Apple sell products based on the following 3 principles:

1. Apples products never brake. Apple products do break. The support available to replace hardware is very poor. I've never dealt with software support, but the face that it exists proves the Apple products don't go wrong.

That's just not true. Apple has never said or implied this. If they did, they wouldn't have a refurb store. You're confusing "just works", which gets to the fact that OS X is pretty much driver-independent for devices that abide by standards.

2. Mac OS is easy to use. Mac's tend to appeal to people who struggle to use other operating systems. Again, BS. OS X is very intuitive - and this is largely why Windows has evolved into a Mac-like GUI. But underneath the OS X hood is BSD Unix, which is why OS X is such a great OS. After all, it's far more mature than Windows having first been developed in the 1960s.

3. Apple products are cool. Yes, very cool products. Which the price reflects. If you choose your electronics based on style and are prepared to pay Apple's prices then why not?Apple doesn't play in the low-margin market. That's why their products are perceived as expensive. In fact, when you compare systems built with the same components, Macs and PCs are about the same cost.

[hairy_moth]

Well, it seems that everybody's admitting that Windows 7 and Tablet PCs (http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?z2846307829&z=950244168) is a match made in hell.

That's too bad. I don't know why the MS Tablet PCs never caught on.

I am one of the few that has been using a MS Tablet PC for quite some time. I got my first one in March of 2005 and bought a replacement in (I think) 2008. I use the discontinued Motion Computing LE1700 (http://thetabletpc.net/motioncomputing.htm). I use this primarily like I used to use a Franklin Planner (http://store.franklinplanner.com/store/category/prod2400014/US-Men%27s-Binders/Classic-Unstructured-Zipper-Binder---Brown?skuId=35060) but I also use it to keep white papers and reference material; it makes a great platform for document reading. I keep photos on it, but I don't really use it for photography.

The MS windows tablet PCs have always been a full featured PC (but using a pen instead of keyboard and mouse) and as such they weigh nearly as much as a laptop; that is quite a bit heavier than an I-pad.

[MaxxuM]

FYI - it is incredibly easy to hack CS4, and, it appears, CS5 as well. It takes all of about three minutes if you're slow at your keyboard. Of course, you have to figure out the method, but just so you know, there are already hacked copies of CS5 Master Collection available.

PS...don't bother to ask me how. I've written lots of software, and I believe that people who write software should get paid for their work.

Every program is easy enough to crack/hack if you're a programmer. What I meant was for the laymen when all you needed to do was enter a serial number and replace a file or two. Now, the programs actually have to be cracked and registration bypassed. This invites malware in a major way. I'm not one for trusting someone else's cracks. $200 for CS4 and another $200 for CS5 isn't too bad.

[harcosparky]

I've never dealt with software support, but the face that it exists proves the Apple products don't go wrong.


You sure that is what you wanted to say? :lol:

Apple sell products based on the following 3 principles:

1. Apples products never brake.

Apple products do break. The support available to replace hardware is very poor. I've never dealt with software support, but the face that it exists proves the Apple products don't go wrong.


Not sure where you heard that, but I doubt it was from personal experience.

Example 2: One of my 24" iMacs began to act sluggishly, so on Monday I took it in to be looked at. The tech ran some tests and said the HDD seems to be operating at less then expected speeds. So I left it. They called me to pick it up 2 days later. It was then that they informed me of three repairs that were made.

#1 - Replaced HDD
#2 - Replaced LCD Display Panel ( they said they saw a yellowish tint on one corner )
#3 - Replaced optical drive ( they said it would not read their Tech DVD )

Example 2: My son spilled a drink on his 13" Macbook. Immediate he removed power and we dismantled to clean out the spill. Macbook functioned but batter indication circuit was not working properly. Took in to have it looked at. Tech said it was NOT under warranty because of " Liquid Damage " and the have it repaired through Apple was costly. The Tech whispered something to the clerk and left. Clerk told me " go to ABC computers and tell them you need this cable replaced. ". ABC computers replaced the cable ( had liquid damage ) at a cost of $60. ABC computers was an Apple Authorized service center and as such could sell us parts, and install them. Apple Stores do not sell parts directly to consumers.




2. Mac OS is easy to use.

Mac's tend to appeal to people who struggle to use other operating systems. These people find that the Mac OS is perfect for their use, which is great to hear (the first time)! Overnight these people become computer experts and begin to lecture anyone who doesn't use a Mac on how stupid they are.


I find Mac OSX a pleasure to use, it is also a very stable platform? Do I struggle to use other operating systems? Well I have experience with the following and certifications on three of them.

UNIX
HPUX ( Hewlettt Packard Unix variant )
Windows NT ( certified )
Windows 2000 ( certified )
Novell 3.xx/4.xx ( certified )

There are some older OS's I have used such as DOS 1.x/2.x/3.x , TRS DOS, and whatever Apple put on Apple IIe's, Atari put on the Atari 400/800 and whatever Commodore put on the Commodore 64/128

My appreciation of Apple OSX comes from over 30 years of using computers with various OS's as well as programming languages.




3. Apple products are cool.

Yes, very cool products. Which the price reflects. If you choose your electronics based on style and are prepared to pay Apple's prices then why not?


I am not big on COOLNESS, so I will concede this. However I will add this....

Through all my years of computer experience I carried Hewlett Packard OMNIBOOK series Network Certified notebooks. You cannot buy these in ANY consumer retail chain. HP doesn't allow them to be sold that way.

When I left the Networking Field ( retired ) I set off to buy a notebook. No longer able to buy in the HP OMNIBOOK line because Consumer Retailers could not sell them I was stuck with looking at Consumer Notebooks. Well a trip to Circuit City allowed me to handle and try out almost every Windows notebook I knew about and some I did not. Not one of them could hold a candle to the HP OMNIBOOKs that I had carried in the past.

The clerk brought me another notebook from another section of the store to look at and I was hooked. EXCELLENT Fit .... EXCELLENT Finish ..... ALL Aluminum case. I had to have one, but it was an OS that I had never used before. Apple's OSX, yes he had handed me an Apple 15" G4 Powerbook.

From my experience the price of an Apple reflects " Build Quality ", well OK except for the plastic one. I cannot see myself owning one of those!

Some may want to call me a " fanboi " but my transition to Apple came late in life, and my opinion of Apple computers is based on years of my personal and professional experience with many other brands of computers, operating systems and programming languages.

I do like the anti-Apple people though, most of them will refer to me as a 'fanboi' yet admit they have never own an Apple OSX machine. I on the other hand have used them all in my years in Computers and when all is said and done, I choose Apple.

[harcosparky]

Now, the programs actually have to be cracked and registration bypassed. This invites malware in a major way. I'm not one for trusting someone else's cracks.

I've heard some horror stories arise out of the use of using 'cracked' software download from the net.

The funniest I hear was someone who downloaded an Adobe program, all looked well until he ran the program. It 'installed' in English but ran in another language altogether. No harm other than time lost downloading and installing.


EDIT: It's a shame they couldn't get Win7 to run well on a Touchscreen Tablet - I was actually looking forward to working with one.

[sam80]

No that wasn't what I wanted to say!

It was a mate of mine who had problems with his Mac Book Pro. Apple Support (UK) were useless. Eventually he managed to find an authorised reseller who was very good and fixed the problem under warranty.

I've never found a laptop with the same build quality as a Mac Book, I did consider buying one to run Windows on, but the one click mouse and poor batter life (when used with Windows) put me off.

[birdfromboat]

I spent a short time as a community college student recently- it was amazing how much free equipment had been donated to the college by Apple. The bookstore was like an Apple outlet, with PC software on a lower shelf.
thats how they do it, expose every student to well managed apple equipment, and hope they will beleive they will have the same experience with the home game.

[hairy_moth]

Thats how they do it, expose every student to well managed apple equipment, and hope they will believe they will have the same experience with the home game.

I got a Comp Sci degree from a school in PA in 1985. The school's data center was equipped with computers running early versions of (free) UNIX from AT&T/Bell Labs. Several years later, many of my class mates were working for AT&T or one of its hardware suppliers.. I always assumed "training up a work force" was AT&T's strategy is supplying the software to colleges back then. UNIX later became a dominant platform for Wall Street and the financial industry; which shared the same NY/NJ work force as AT&T.

[PMCphotography]

I find myself thinking a lot: "wow, that will be cool when there is an Android tablet out there! Imagine being able to view a flash website!"

But then i think "Why would I want something that's not easily portable, but at the same time not powerful to run any real programs?"

[Hen3Ry]

I've never found a laptop with the same build quality as a Mac Book, I did consider buying one to run Windows on, but the one click mouse and poor batter life (when used with Windows) put me off.

Well, just so you know...all Apple computers are just as happy with a two button mouse as the one they come with. And it's difficult to understand why Windows would draw more power to run the same hardware as OS X. The electrical requirements of the hardware probably don't change between boot-ups.

[JoshJosh117]

That thing is not a tablet, it is an oversized phone.

[pcunite]

I've never found a laptop with the same build quality as a Mac Book, I did consider buying one to run Windows on, but the one click mouse and poor batter life (when used with Windows) put me off.

Because you have never spent $2,000 on a ThinkPad. :rolleyes:
Quality is out there mate, you just have to go past the Dell's and Gateway's of the PC world.