Mounting a G3 for panoramic problem.

[8bit Barry]

Hopefully many of you will have tried panoramic shots from a number of images either stitched together using Photoshop or other programs.

How should I COST EFFECTIVILY mount a G3/G5 for panaromic photography?

Barry

[rpolitsr]

On pg. 65-67 (G3 and G5) or pg. 69-71 (G6) user’s guide you will find detailed instructions for shooting panoramic images.

I stitch my images with ZoomBrowser or use File>Automate>Photomerge… in photoshop CS.

If ‘Cost effective’ means that you are searching something different from expensive and fancy panning heads, I can tell you that for normal landscapes a standard tripod with pan and tilt capabilities works very well. Be careful to keep the head leveled. I have shot non critical panoramic images even hand held. The only drawback was that the final stitched image required more cropping.

If you include near by objects panning will be a bit more critical.

[8bit Barry]

The technique isnt a problem, it is eliminating parralax. All the attempts I have made so far have been ruined (especially ones in portrait mode) by the camera being offset to far from the centre. I need a bracket to mount the camera, not a head as the one I have is perfectly fine for the job. I dont want to spend $150 on one seeing as it is a digicam I am using.

I have tried Photomerge in CS and it does work, but it still has a problem with getting smooth stitching and if you include anything geometric in your picture like a house, it has even more problems.

All I am after is a bracket for the G3/G5 that will cost effectivily mount the camera in portrait mode. There must be something?

[ATucker]

Barry:

A couple of commercial spherical panohead options that should work with your G3 include:

Nodal Ninja: http://www.nodalninja.com (http://www.nodalninja.com/)
Panosaurus: http://gregwired.com/pano/Pano.htm
King Pano: http://www.kingpano.com/

Or you could make your own. Search the web for examples of panoheads made from wood and/or angle brackets purchased at home improvement stores. The easiest panohead to make would be a single-row (non-spherical) for one focal length.

For the G3/5, the information you need to design you own:

The tripod mount is offset 11mm from the lens centerline.
The lens centerline is located 29mm above the bottom of the camera.
The nodal point at the zoom extremes are:
Zoomed-in, (7.2mm / 35mm equiv.): 45mm +/- 0.5mm in front of tripod mount.
Zoomed-out, (28.8mm / 140mm equiv.): 15mm +/- 0.5mm in front of the tripod mount.
All the other nodal points are located in-between the zoom extremes.

If you want to shoot pano's at focal lengths other than the zoom extremes, you will need to mark the lens so you know what the zoom position is and match that with the mount position. I suggest reading the POTN member FLOWE's site: http://homepage.hispeed.ch/flowe/digifoto/focal_lg.htm

He also has some excellent hyperfocal info for the G3, which you may need for shooting panos. I have a hyperfocal chart mounted on the inside of my flip-out LCD recess per his instructions.

I designed my own spherical panohead for the G5. The Nodal Ninja was not available at the time and I wanted one that was lighter in weight than the other commercially available units. Pics available here: http://www.pbase.com/atucker/pano_head

As far as software, I use PTAssembler. www.tawbaware.com (http://www.tawbaware.com/). There is an active pano forum on this site.

Tom

[dbump]

Tom,
Excellent info!!! I hadn't seen the KingPano before. And your home-built head is beautiful--wish I still had access to a milling machine...

Barry,
I own the Panosaurus--I do like it, but you will need to drill it (or have Greg drill it for you), since the tripod mount of the G3 is on the right side of the lens (viewed from the bottom).
As Tom mentioned, if you're mostly interested in single-row panos, building your own is reasonable.

[8bit Barry]

A bucket load of useful info, thanks Mr Tucker, I will have a good read. The NodalNinja looks like the one. Wish I could make one really, but I dont have the tools.

[ATucker]

Barry:

Regarding the nodal ninja, I did not see the G3 listed on their website. I suggest you verify the mounting bracket has adjustment to compensate for the G3/G5 11mm offset between the tripod mount and the lens centerline. Otherwise you will only have a single row panohead instead of a spherical.

Also, if you get the Nodal Ninja, please post your impressions of it. There is a review of it and the Panosaurus at Max's site (http://www.tawbaware.com). Scroll down the page to Equipment Reviews. If I get a DSLR in the future, I would consider this instead of making my own.

Tom

[8bit Barry]

I have been to the web page and seen that they DO make the Nodal Ninja for the G3, it is in the list of recommended cameras.

I have emailed them to ask about the point you raised and I will post the reply on this thread when answered. THanks for all your help, I'm now that bit closer to some stunning panoramas!

Barry

[ATucker]

The technique isnt a problem, it is eliminating parralax. All the attempts I have made so far have been ruined (especially ones in portrait mode) by the camera being offset to far from the centre. I need a bracket to mount the camera, not a head as the one I have is perfectly fine for the job. I dont want to spend $150 on one seeing as it is a digicam I am using.

I have tried Photomerge in CS and it does work, but it still has a problem with getting smooth stitching and if you include anything geometric in your picture like a house, it has even more problems.


Barry:

The problem might be stitching and not parallax. When you stitch two or more photos together, the software is taking two or more images taken on different projection planes and trying to place them on a common projection plane. To do so the software has to distort the originals. How the software distorts the originals is dependent on the focal length, lens type, and how you want the final projection to look (rectilinear, cyclindrical, spherical).

I do not have/use PS and I do not know how Photomerge works. Does Photomerge ask for these inputs? The focal length can be retrieved from the EXIF data (assuming you are not using an add on lens).

I suggest that before you purchase a pano head, you take the original photos you had problems with using Photomerge and test them with other Pano-specific software and see if you still have the same errors.

Auto stitch is a free one that is fully automatic. However, I would suggest testing with the software that came with your camera: Photostitch. Photostitch initially runs in automatic, then you can go into manual and define individual control points if original pano did not stitch correctly.

As stated before, I use PTAssembler which can be run automatic or manual. Often, on panos of structures, buildings, etc, even using my calibrated panohead, I still have to manually define control points to get the structural elements to align. If you want to test using PTAssembler, it has a 30 day free trial.

That being said, if your panos have a lot of close foreground interest (less than 15-20 feet) you still may need the panohead.

Examples of some handheld panos:
3 pics - Canyon Reflections (http://www.pbase.com/atucker/image/42196993/original)
4 x 2 pics - Pre-Owned (http://www.pbase.com/atucker/image/46173566/original)

Example of one that I needed a panohead:
4 x 2 pics Huntington Cliffs (http://www.pbase.com/atucker/image/43993088/original)
In this pano, the foreground started approximately 5 feet in front of the camera.

I should have posted this before or with the panohead info.

Tom

[8bit Barry]

I think the problems I have are definately parallax. The problem for now is that the camera is not centrally mounted on my tripod (due to the screw hole on the bottom). A 180 degree pan like the one shown below will work, but the computer has all sorts of problems fitting it together. If you look carefully you can see the house on the left has all sorts of problems with the roof. This is the only pan I have done to date, it comprises of 20 images all in portrait mode. It is 180degrees, something I realise I dont like the look of one bit!

http://www.loona.eclipse.co.uk/pan180.jpg

Photoshop Photomerge does have perspective correction, but I found it to be rather unsucessfull for this image. The parallax problem was very bad on this image, I had to discards 3 or 4 images of my own house because I couldn't match them up at all.

All my images in the photographic world are taken with wide angles as I am a wide angle junkie! I find it difficult to shoot at anything other than 20mm on my EOS 3, usually a foot off the ground. My Canon G3 has a Raynox 6600 now strapped to it, I love foregorund details and I would love to include huge features in my panoramic pictures so I think a decent head will be vital. I am not keen on doing these sort of shots with a film camera as there is bound to be exposure error in scanning.

I will certainly try out the things you mention before shelling out the money.

I do like your pictures, especially the sunset clouds pano. Really wonderful stuff. I like your tripod head too, very professional.

Many thanks

Barry

[pradeep1]

I don't think the Panosaurus will work with the G1-G5 cameras. :(

[ATucker]

Out of the box, the Panosaurus will not work due to the position of the tripod mounting hole relative to the centerline of the lens.

However, Greg at Panasaurus will and has supplied modified camera mounting blocks to fit the G-series cameras.

Per the Panosaurus website: http://gregwired.com/pano/Measurements.htm

"The Panosaurus will NOT work (out of the box) with any camera with a tripod hole located to the right of the lens. Note: A possible solution to this problem is to drill a custom placed hole in the camera mounting block of the Panosaurus. If you are interested in having this done or doing it yourself please contact me."

[dbump]

I had Greg modify the panosaurus for my G2--it worked great. My G6 works also, but using the normal mounting points, rather than the one Greg drilled.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Barry:

Regarding the nodal ninja, I did not see the G3 listed on their website. I suggest you verify the mounting bracket has adjustment to compensate for the G3/G5 11mm offset between the tripod mount and the lens centerline. Otherwise you will only have a single row panohead instead of a spherical.

Also, if you get the Nodal Ninja, please post your impressions of it. There is a review of it and the Panosaurus at Max's site (http://www.tawbaware.com). Scroll down the page to Equipment Reviews. If I get a DSLR in the future, I would consider this instead of making my own.

Tom

The Nodal Ninja SP2-s is Very much better than the first version, they have taken Max's comments to heart.
You can now get an adapter to fit the whole G series of cameras at every focal length, but it is not shown on the site, Just ask before you order. It will also fit just about all small cameras.
It seems to be getting better all the time and is excellent value.
It also fits a pocket.

Terry