580s & transmitter

[SDJNJ]

Here's my scenerio: 18 in wedding party in 2-3 layers using 20D on manual mode-ISO 200, f/11 & 1/250, (2) 580s on light stands being bounced off silver umbrellas both off to each side of camera (camera in center) and transmitter attached to the hotshoe of camera. Canon tells me that you can not use manual controls on the speedlites (I tend to believe them because I can't figure out how-won't chg in mode with transmitter) only ETTL. So, my question is: is moving the light stands & relying on the histogram the only way to judge the output of the speedlites or if you place them where you want, will the ETTL take c/o the output sufficiently? Thanks for any help!

[scottbergerphoto]

I don't know about the STE2, but you can use a 550EX or 580EX Master to control the flashes wirelessly in Manual Mode by setting the Manual Power of each separately on the Master. See pages 108-110 of the 550EX manual or comparable pages in the 580EX Manual. You can also put both flashes in Group A and set FEC individually on each flash.

[SDJNJ]

I actually have access to another 550 speedlite. I was just hoping to use the two, though, with the transmitter and have the two lights on each side of me. Apparently, there are limitations when using the transmitter. I guess if I do that, I wonder if the ETTL will work correctly & what effects will the umbrellas have on the ETTL??? The church isn't terribly dark, but I for sure what some illumination. Another thing, any other suggestions on set up, maybe w/o the umbrellas? Thanks!

[scottbergerphoto]

I use 2 550's (one on camera one and on a lightstand with umbrella)and a 420 for the background. ETTL with ratios works flawlessly.

[SDJNJ]

So, you use ETTL with ratios & the umbrella on the slave doesn't impact the ETTL? If that's so, then with two speedlites on umbrellas & using the transmitter, I suppose the ETTL would be ok. The thing that confuses me is that the camera doesn't know the distance, however, with ETTL it sends out a pre-flash, so that was my concern with the umbrella issue. Thanks!

[Jon]

Right - the pre-flash is how the system knows what power to use. And there are some limitations to the ST-E2 as controller compared to a 550 or 580. As you noticed, it doesn't do manual. It also only allows two groups for ratios (A &B) vs 3 (A, B &C) which you can set with a 5x0 as master.

[SDJNJ]

Thanks! I wasn't going to use a center speedlite, just the two on each side. So, I will just watch my histogram. I'm coming from studio lights where I manually set everything & meter. So, this is a switch for me & at a wedding, I don't want to mess up!

[SDJNJ]

Another question: would you guys use two lights on each side with umbrellas or the set-up Scott mentioned for this size group? Just curious as to what you think would work best. Thanks!!!

[Jon]

Do you mean two lights/two umbrellas on each side, or two lights per umbrella? Only reason for the former would be with a bigger group than you have, spread out fairly wide. I'd incline toward Scott's setup, maybe (if I had it) doubling up the flash(es) behind the umbrella/diffuser so I could step it back a tad for more even coverage.

[SDJNJ]

Yes, using one flash per umbrella. One on each side.

[Jon]

Oh. I'd call that one with umbrella on each side. No, I'd still go with Scott's setup unless you have a reason for wanting both the main and the fill lights to be diffuse.

[SDJNJ]

Thanks, you guys have been a great help!

[scottbergerphoto]

Scott, what is your working distance with the 550 with the umbrella and what is your maximum fstop at 10 feet? I'm curious.
The flash in the umbrella is 5-10 ft away from the subject and camera usually at f/8 max. That's another limitation to small flash. They don't have the power of studio strobes, so your parameters are more confined.

[SDJNJ]

So, how's your DOF? I'd like to use f/11 with a large party. Shouldn't that be ok if I move in closer? Maybe increase the exposure by a stop? Thanks!

[tim]

Guys, this is exactly what I mean to do, pretty much as Scott's doing it. Scott, what size/type umbrellas do you use? And does it light up groups and full length shots or or just smaller areas? Do you have any problems with the on-camera flash not triggering the on-stand flash? That last one is my main worry really.

[beaconlightboy]

is it me or does 1/250th seem like a good way to eliminate the background of the church? i would've thought you would meter for F8-F11 at 30 or 60 to bring out that background?

also has anyone had good luck with E-TTL and umbrellas? i haven't to date.. i would recommend using a 580 or 550 on the camera for triggering the flashes. just set the flashes to equal ratios or maybe one light one step down. and use an on camera flash for fill, but im still trying to figure out how to use 3 speedlights with the on camera as fill.

[robertwgross]

That 1/250th is about as fast as you can go and get normal sync, and being as quick as it is, it should limit the ambient light a lot.

---Bob Gross---