G6 & 420EX - Issue blurry pics and no flash

[kring]

On my G6 I have a 420EX, The core complaint I have is that my indoor pictures are ALWAYS blurry, nearly every shot I take indoors the shutter speed sets to 1/6, 1/8, or a few rare times it might go as high as 1/10 on P, M, Auto, or portrait. and of course there's the shaking camera icon. Now I figure, OK, I'll go to TV and set the shutter speed to something usable, (even low end) like 1/60 or 1/80 or 1/100. When I do this I get F2.0 in red or sometimes I can't go below that, it's locked at a red F2.8. Either way if I snap the shot I'm going to get a bad picture, it's dark or blurry. And I'll add that Rarely, will the flash Icon come on, it seems like this camera is set to avoid useing the flash at all costs, like a tripod only mode. Am I missing something here or do I have a setting incorrect? IF I go to Manual and set F2.0 and 1/60, I get a red -2 in top corner, and of course NO FLASH.

Now I'm not a pro with camera's but the way I understand it is that the shutter speed is low because there's not enough light in the room. So why won't this camera use the flash. it's connected correctly, it's on, it has fresh batteries, if I go into a real dark area like a closet it will flash, but under normal indoor lighting. it wont use the flash. What's odd, is sometimes outside on a bright day, the camera will want to ADD flash and still tries to take pictures at 1/60 or lower. Wouldn't on a bright sunny day the camera should be no less then 1/250 or even higher to lessen the light?

My next thought is, OK, well lets force the flash on. wrong. for some reason the flash button (on the camera) does not work with the 420EX connected. So is the 420EX not compatible with the G6? or why would you not be allowed to force flash?

I've taken about 2K photo's so far with this combo. I'd say 40% of my bright outdoor photo's are blurry or flashed unecessarily and 90% of my indoor photo's are blurry. I'll add that I have a fairly steady hand, even if I prop my elbow up I still get somewhat blurry shots because of the extremely low shutter speed this camera always chooses.

Why won't this camera use the flash or take crisp pictures? I've had a G3 and G5 and Never had issues with them.

[lefturn99]

You have touched on several things. First is the ND filter turned on?

I have the G6 / 420ex and it works great. One of my complaints is that the manual is worthless and I've never seen any tutorial that explains the controls in terms that a "non-film curmudgeon" can understand. But I just turn it on and it works fine. My guess is that you have some setting messed up. The easiest way to use the flash seems to be in P mode. Attach the flash and put it on P. Cycle the flash button to A(lightningbolt). Half press the shutter release and the shutter speed should read 1/60 if it is working. How are we doing so far?

Disclaimer: I am not a professional but that is the way I understand this.

[Superbaldguy]

You have to set the camera so that the "slow sync" is off, and this defaults to 1/60th sec for inside flash images.

[woffles]

Sounds like Superbaldguy might be right. Looked at mine. For it to do something similar I had to put it on slow synchro. Also it may be part technique. If the flash doesn't fire sometimes, is this right after taking one picture and then taking another? if the flash hasn't recycled yet, my Sigma can take around 4 seconds, it won't fire.

My menu settings are
Flash Sync - 1st-curtain
Slow Synchro - Off
Flash Adjust - Auto
Red-eye - On ( I may play with this some, haven't tried with it off yet)

Also with the function button check your Flash compensation, start at 0
Exposure should start at 0 also
WB should start at AWB and go from there. If you have a grey or white card, with the flash on you can use custom and it will fire the flash and set the proper WB for you.

Good luck. It should take really nice inside photos with the flash, also make sure you are getting the green focus square.

[woffles]

One other setting to be aware of is continuous shooting, it will deactivate the flash also.

[kring]

Sorry for the delay in responding, I was away. All good suggestions but none are the issue as far as I can tell

Leftturn99 : These were the first two thing that came to my mind too as I searched through the manual. I can confirm that The ND filter is off, according to the instruction I wouldn't want that on as it does slow the shutter speed down. You mentioned to cycle the flash button to on, which is where my issue lay, I can not cycle the flash button. it's locked to no flash. I can take off the 420EX set it to Flash forced on (lightening bolt with no A) then slide on the flash and the bolt disappears. Pressing the Flash button does nothing, not even a beep. Can you confirm that you can change flash modes while the 42EX is connected? if so then it sounds like my flash or camera is defective.

Superbladguy: I can confirm that in the menu slow syncr is off and I still have this issue.

Woffles: This isn't a flash timing issue as I can have the camera on for 1 min and this blurry pic will be on my first shot. Looking at yoru setting you say you have a Flash Adjust set to Auto. But I can only access this is the M mode. But this gets me thinking that maybe the camera is having Flash adjustment issues? You mention I should be at ) for flash and exp. I did have flash 2 notches down to compensate for considerable overflashing under these conditions.

and yes I am getting the gree focus square. I'll add that these photo's are not zoomed it. When I get home later tonight I'll try and post some exampls of the issues I'm having.

Thank you everyone for you help.

[lefturn99]

Let's eliminate something. Does the flash work? After it is turned on and the red light is on, can you press the redlight and the flash goes off?

And am I clear on this? Is this a "flash won't fire problem"?

I just checked mine and the flash mode button has no effect with the flash in the hot shoe and the flash mode indicator goes away. If the flash is on, when you half-press, the lightning bolt appears.

[twalker294]

Does the internal flash work? Is the 420 seated firmly in the flash shoe? When an external flash is mounted, the camera's flash switch has no effect because you don't need it. If you want a flash, turn it on -- if not, turn it off. If the 420 is seated properly and turned on, it should fire, period. If it doesn't there are only two possiblities: 1. you have a setting wrong in the camera somewhere; 2. your camera is defective.

Todd

[kring]

Lefturn99 and Twalker294;The flash is seated proeprly, If I press the red PILOT button I get a nice bright flash. The flash not firing Is one cause to the main issue that I can't get a stable well lit pictures indoors. I beleive the problem is caused by two items, one the flash won't fire, when it should based on what I feel is too dark a shot. Two, the camera insists on being at shutter speeds 1/60 and lower, when a proper flash and even proper lighting (not requiring a flash) dictate it should be 2-5 times higher. and I'll add the onboard flash works fine. Twalker294, you say that if the flash is on then it should fire, that's getting to my issue, I get the feeling that the camera is telling the flash it's not needed because it can find a way to take a pic with no flash. are you positive it should fire 100% if the flash is on? If so then I have a defective flash or camera, I'll check on this too.

In the mean time, I'll experiment. after an hour of play I kept noticing it was getting worse, now my indoor pictures were auto setting at 1 full second shutter speed. and even in the darkest conditions the flash refused to come on at all in ANY mode. So I removed the batteries from both the camera and flash and cleaned all the contacts. Then put in a freshly charged camera battery (OEM Canon BP-511A) and freshly charged flash batteries (good Powerex 2500mAh) and now it seems that the flash will come on more often and it no longer tries to drop the shutter speed all the way down to 1". but neither of the batteries were dead, flash still went and camera showed full on the others. So somehow it got better however it still, NEVER goes above 1/60 for indoor photo's. I'll post my full specs below:

Mode: P
Flash Sync 1st-curtain
Slow Syncro Off
Red-eye On
Cont Shooting non-high speed
Self-timer 2sec
Wireless delay 10 sec
Spot AE Point Center
ND filter Off
MF-Point Zoom On
AF Mode continuous
AF-assist beam on
Digital zoom off
ISO 50
Effects Off
BKT-Off
Flash Set to Zero (center)
Superfine
Large
Auto White Balance
Exposure Zero (center)

With these settings 100% without fail 1/60, like it's locked in TV mode, I can even go from dark indoor pictures, to pointing outside through a large bay window into a bright day and you guessed it 1/60 Like the camera has no other speed. F2.0 will almost always be set. Now if I switch to TV mode, I can go up to 1/250 and still take a perfectly lit and balanced photo and it's sharp too! Which tells me the camera is not calculating correctly, I'm leading to beleive I either have a bad firmware or Canon has a flawed firmware. it's slowing down the shutter speed to 1/60 when it does not need to. Now 1/60 is great for tripod right? but shouldn't you have 1/200 or higher to have crisp hand-help pictures? So why would this camera insist on slow shutter speeds.

So now I figure it's time to go extremes with this camera and figure out it's breaking point. I start with trying to take a picture of my LCD screen with a blank word doc so I have almost all white, result is 1/60 F2.5. OK, lets try a frosted light fixture with a 60watt bulp from 2 feet away, result is 1/60 with F3.2. OK, howabout a strait up 60 watt bulb, result 1/60 with F4.0. OK, lets try a full lit room and take a picture of a 150Watt bulp directly from 6 feet away, result 1/60 F3.2 (went backwards??), next two 150 watt bulbs (300 watt) from 2 feet away FINALLY 1/200 F4.0! Now lets go all out, 1 foot away on 300watt bulbs, result 1/250 at F6.3, tried again and got 1/800 F4. Is this camera not completely broken?I can see as I go from a dark corner of the room to 300watt bulb, this camera is trying to do behind the scenes compensation and I can watch it adjusting gamma and exposure in the LCD or whatever it is doing to try it's best to LOCK 1/60 or as low as possible. Does anyone know what settings this camera changes automatically as room brightness changes? how can you go from a bright sunny day to indoors and not change the shutter speed of F-stop, yet the camera can make adjustments in the LCD to capture this massive light difference.

I appreciate everyone's help, and I'll admit I really don't know a lot about camera's but what I think I understand is that this camera is defective. There's no way trying to snap a 300W pair of bulbs from 2 feet away nets a 1/200 F4.

I have linked to a few photo's to view:

http://www.chrisopedia.com/MISC/IMG_1182.JPG - Standard blurry shots
http://www.chrisopedia.com/MISC/IMG_1183.JPG - more standard blurry shots
http://www.chrisopedia.com/MISC/IMG_1185.JPG - more standard blurry shots (http://www.chrisopedia.com/MISC/IMG_1185.JPG)
http://www.chrisopedia.com/MISC/IMG_1188.JPG - forced to 1/250 when camera wanted 1/10 blurry no flash needed.
http://www.chrisopedia.com/MISC/IMG_1190.JPG - 300W 1 foot away flash went off!
http://www.chrisopedia.com/MISC/IMG_1191.JPG - 300W 2 foot away no flash
http://www.chrisopedia.com/MISC/IMG_1162.JPG - Fairly well lit room, no flash, blurry
http://www.chrisopedia.com/MISC/IMG_1132.JPG - Fairly well lit room, no flash, blurry

This is my frustration and these pictures are pretty much all the G6 is capable of doing in my experience. I'll add I have a S400 from canon. Beautiful pictures everytime indoors, literally puts the G6 to shame indoors. I have a good friends wedding to go to, reception is indoors, I told him not to count on me for any pictures, I'll try but not to expect anything. I think what I'll have to do is go TV and lock the shutterspeed at 1/250.

[twalker294]

OK, I have no way of knowing how your camera is acting or if it isn't doing what it should but I can tell you a few things about using flash indoors.

First of all, when your flash is the main light source, the shuttter speed doesn't matter when it comes to exposure. With an ETTL flash, set the camera to 1/60, 1/100, 1/200, 1/15 -- it doesn't matter. They will all be exposed properly. What shutter speed DOES do is twofold: 1. controls camera shake; 2. determines how much ambient light is in the shot. This shot of my son from my 10D is a great example of this:

http://www.pbase.com/twalker294/image/41624666/original.jpg

Notice how the background is well lit? That shot was taken at f/2.8 and ISO 800 with flash. The high ISO allowed the ambient light in the background to come through, just as a slower shutter would have. To answer your question, 1/60 should be fine for most indoor shots as long as you aren't zoomed in all the way. The rough rule of thumb is that the shutter speed should be the reciprocal of the focal length, so if you are at 100mm, then your shutter speed should be 1/100 to get a sharp shot. Just remember to think about 35mm equivalents when you do this calculation.

On locking the shutter at 1/60, this is pretty much standard practice and there is nothing wrong with your camera. My 10D has a custom function to turn this off and your G6 might as well. Also when you are "testing" to see if the camera knows what it's talking about, remember that it is taking the whole scene into account unless you are in spot metering mode. That means that if you have a bright light bulb but the rest of the scene is much darker, it is going to try to compensate for the darkness by leaving the aperture open more than you might think is appropriate. Try setting it to spot metering then aiming at that light bulb and see what you get.

Finally I notice from the EXIF that you posted it appears that you are in continuous shooting mode if I am reading it right. Turn it to single shot mode. I don't know how the G6 handles continuous mode with flash but that might be part of your problem as well.

Todd

[twalker294]

One more thing to do. Set your camera to manual mode, 1/125 shutter, f/5.6, mount the 420EX and take a picture. Let us know how it comes out. It should be perfectly exposed with no blur.

Todd

[lefturn99]

Are those shots hand held? Are pictures sharp on a tripod? It doesn't look like a focus problem. Looks more like camera shake.

Someone told me that in P most cameras set the shutter speed at 1/60 when the flash fires. That seems to be a common thread. If you are constantly seeing 1/60 and the flash doesn't fire, that seems to be the problem. The camera thinks it is going to fire and it doesn't.

I'm not the steadiest guy and I don't get consistently sharp shots at 1/125. I don't know your level of expertise, so forgive me if this is unnecessary, but do you know how to increase non-flash shutter speed? On a G6, it's Av mode, aperture at 2.0, zoom at the widest, exposure at the lowest you can stand, and ISO at the highest setting that you can tolerate noise-wise. That will give you the highest shutter speed that won't be exposed completely wrong. If you will half press after you make each change, you will see the shutter speed rise a little.

[woffles]

Not sure what to tell you. Like others have said. 1/60 is the normal speed it will set it to, always. With the flash on the camera it should fire "every" time no matter how bright the subject you are pointing at. It just turns down the amount of flash and "fills" in the picture. If it's not firing everytime, either the flash is bad, camera is bad, batteries are bad, you are not letting the flash recycle before you take another picture, it is not on the camera properly, or it's just not turned on. As far as I can tell there is "no" way to disable the flash when it is on the camera and powered up. I read one of your EXIFs and it said NO to flash which meant it didn't think the flash was either powered up or ready to fire. When you put the flash on the camera it turns off the internal flash so it can't fire and takes over. P mode should work really well. Pictures should be blowing away your S400. Can you try another flash at a store to test if it is your flash or another camera to see if it is you camera? Don't send the wrong thing off to be repaired!! :-) Good luck.

[stjuste]

I also am experiencing the same problems. I did notice that when I use the manual setting, the pictures take. Also, when I set Slow Synchro to on in P mode, the pictures also come out. All of this leads me to believe that the external flash is not being fired fast enough or correctly. When using the camera's flash, everything works fine. I am using normal duracell batteries now. I may have to switch to special batteries made for high speed flash. Let me know what you guys think.