Things I know now that I wish I knew then.

[JoePhotoOnline]

Just hit 800 posts, and I realize how far my photography has come in the last two years.

As I think about the last few years and everything I've learned, I realize how much time and money I have wasted to get where I am now.

So, for the beginners out there now, I'm going to start a list of things that I would have done differently now.

1) Start with a manual camera and 35mm film.

2) Buy good glass before new bodies.

3) A comfortable camera strap counts.

4) Shoot for compositional excellence before technical excellence.

5) Shoot tight, crop tighter.

6) The continuous drive can hurt more than it helps.

7) Megapixels DON'T matter.

8.) Mommy and Daddy will love every photo.

9) 90% of the internet is BS, the other 10% is hard to find, but worth it.

10) Prime lenses = Gold

11) Pro-Gear is not needed for Pro-Photos.

12) Beginners talk about cameras, Pros talk about lenses, and Master don't say a lot, but when they do, it's usually about light.


and many more.... Who wants to add?

[JoePhotoOnline]

Two more:

13) When taking a shot, if you think about 'fixing' it later in PS, stop.

14) Have a backup body.

[mikekelley]

15. Ignore everything and do it your own way

[pinoyplaya]

16. Reach 800 post and list the stuff you learned

[mikekelley]

17. Make a consecutive list

[pinoyplaya]

18. Reply to post like this to get post count

[SkipD]

19. Teach what you know to the newbies. You'll find that you learn more about the subject in the process.

[ETERNAL]

20. Upgrade to Point and Shoot from Disposable Camera

[neilwood32]

19. Teach what you know to the newbies. You'll find that you learn more about the subject in the process.

That is so true - if you teach a subject well, it deepens your own understanding of it.

I used to be a trainer and found that my own proficiency increased dramatically after I started training.

We used the Concious competence model :
1) Unconcious incompetence (the person isn't aware of deficient skill)
-> 2)Concious incompetence (they become aware of the deficiency and start learning)
-> 3)Concious competence (they can perform the skill while concentrating on it)
-> 4) unconscious competence (they can perform the skill without concentrating on it).

Someone training the skill needs to be able to lead the candidate through the 4 stages
1) Show the person they lack the skill and how it is important
2) Show them how the skill is performed and why
3) Assist practise of the skill until it can be done with concentration
4) The skill becomes "ingrained" after sufficient practise and learning

What that entails though is breaking a skill down and understanding what you do and why (at level 4) and how to get that over to someone at level 1.

If you can do that, it seriously helps your own understanding!

A website (http://www.businessballs.com/consciouscompetencelearningmodel.htm) that explains it quite well

[tonylong]

There have on occasion been times when I've tried to give "newbies" sage advice but then over time realized I was just being dumb...but that isn't really on-topic:)!

[CAL Imagery]

It's not what you know, it's who you know. Oh wait, we're talking about photography...

[Another Canon Guy]

As a noob love the list, though I feel #9 may be more like 96-4 split

[nicksan]

15. Ignore everything and do it your own way

Classic...:lol:

[golfecho]

19. Teach what you know to the newbies. You'll find that you learn more about the subject in the process.

This is SOOO true in so many endeavours! Might I add a caveat? Don't get upset when the newbie asks questions beyond your ability to answer, and certainly don't "make up" an answer just to appear to know more than you do. This is an opportunity to "learn to teach" and to take the newbie and learn as a team. You will garner far more respect that way . . .

[Buckieh]

20. CPL's make a big difference outdoors!

[SkipD]

0. - Forget about any silly "crop factor" calculations while working with any camera. :p

[JoePhotoOnline]

0. - Forget about any silly "crop factor" calculations while working with any camera. :p

Amen!

[TCOMC]

50.) Don't rely on a shutter speed guideline because shutter speed is very important for sharp pictures. My 50mm f1.8 isn't soft and it doesn't front or back focus, I've just been using shutter speeds that were too slow.

[HYBEagle]

Invest in the best gear you can afford to save money (that's right, you save more by spending more on quality product upfront).

[canonboy2003]

It's not what you know, it's who you know. Oh wait, we're talking about photography...

Ha ha. Unfortunately, this applies to photography, too.

[WaltA]

0. Stop worrying what your shutter count is.

[FlyingPhotog]

Good Glass + Average Body trumps Good Body + Average Glass.

Shot the second way for many years in my late film period and now that I understand the importance of good glass, I really wish I'd done it the other way around.

[Todd Lambert]

A good tripod will do more for the quality of your photos than almost any other gear. Same can be said for a flash actually.

[DStanic]

I don't feel that I've made alot of mistakes, I've just taken my time learning. Everybody learns at their own pace...

Some things I've learned that I wish I could have told myself in the beginning:


My main advice would be to go out and SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT! It's the only way you'll learn. :)

Get a screen calibrator (Spyder3 or whatever), you'll save time and frustration with post processing.

If you have an older computer, upgrade it to something decent and PP won't be as painful.

Don't buy a NEW body, used you get more bang for the buck. (Unless you buy a Rebel+kit lens, they are pretty good value and you won't lose too much selling when you upgrade.) This mainly applies to cameras TODAY, 3 years ago the very best I would have been able to afford would be a used 20D, I think the XTi was still a good choice due to it's modern features. Now you can get a 40d, 1DmkII, etc..

If you shoot people get a flash. (You should have a good flash and tripod- even if you use it rarely).

[photoguy6405]

1) Start with a manual camera and 35mm film. Not necessary, but certainly helpful. I think it helped me.

2) Buy good glass before new bodies. Yep. Also, buy the best you can afford at the time. It'll save you money in the long run.

3) A comfortable camera strap counts. I don't use a camera strap.

7) Megapixels DON'T matter. Nope, not like the manufacturers would have us believe.

8.) Mommy and Daddy will love every photo. Yep.

10) Prime lenses = Gold Meh.

11) Pro-Gear is not needed for Pro-Photos. Seems to contradict #10.

12) Beginners talk about cameras, Pros talk about lenses, and Master don't say a lot, but when they do, it's usually about light. I like that.

A good tripod will do more for the quality of your photos than almost any other gear.
Yep.

[CAL Imagery]

Ha ha. Unfortunately, this applies to photography, too.
Depends. Marketing is more important for photography and that means getting people you don't know, to come to you.

[JoePhotoOnline]

I say Primes are Gold because of how liberating they are, even the nifty fifty. Large apertures allow shooting in conditions you couldn't do before. The are light weight, sharper, and make you focus on composition. They also give you an eye for what you comp is going to look like before the camera comes up to the eye.

[mikekelley]

Zooms let me focus on composition too.

Both are gold...couldn't live without either. well i could, but it would suck.

[DStanic]

Zooms let me focus on composition too.

Both are gold...couldn't live without either. well i could, but it would suck.


Agreed. For casual shooting there are days when I take just my zooms and days when I take just my primes.

[Accessoire]

Chillaaaaaaaax....99.9% of ppl you shoot for aren't pixel peeping obsessed psychos like you are.

[Rsuslow]

The one thing I wish I knew then (about 5 years after starting photography seriously) is:

Off Camera Flash.

[Mosca]

Learn about perspective. Zooming is NOT the same as getting closer. Each has its place; understand the difference.

[ChefDude]

i can't believe no one has mentioned learning how to stand and hold a camera.

They say, stick to at least 1/focal length for a blur free image. I say, learning a solid stance and holding the camera in a supportive way will give you a stop or 2 :)

i can shoot my 85mm sharp at 1.2 down to 1/6s. on a 1DIIn, you can't use one hand, that's for sure lol

my 2 cents :oops:
Michael

[HeleneD]

Don't be afraid to shoot manual and RAW. Both make a huge impact on your images.

[kuwazome]

Just hit 800 posts, and I realize how far my photography has come in the last two years.

As I think about the last few years and everything I've learned, I realize how much time and money I have wasted to get where I am now.

So, for the beginners out there now, I'm going to start a list of things that I would have done differently now.

1) Start with a manual camera and 35mm film. Subjective

2) Buy good glass before new bodies. Well, makes sense in a investment point of view, but good glass needs good bodies...

4) Shoot for compositional excellence before technical excellence. Mhmm

5) Shoot tight, crop tighter. Here's one thing I hate about photogs, they always crop AFTER shooting. As a designer first, I cannot get out of the habit framing my picture exactly how I want it before I expose.

6) The continuous drive can hurt more than it helps. Not on a 1D

7) Megapixels DON'T matter. To a designer, this matter, a lot. If you don't print bigger than 8x10, doesnt matter. The best example I can give is when you set photos beside other 300dpi elements such as typography and graphics. Most spreads are minimum 11x17 (folds into 8 1/2x11) that means if I want 300dpi I need minimum 16MP. If I do 200-240 like most photogs, it might not look blurry by itself, but setting this beside perfectly sharp type and vector it will look bad in comparison. My philosophy is no design can do without good photography, but no photography can do without good typography. If you don't believe in that, megapixels isn't an issue to you.

Oh and I don't interpolate for books/magazines... Just not good enough to sharp eyes in the design industry...

8.) Mommy and Daddy will love every photo. Doesn't matter who likes my photos, if I don't like its not good enough.

9) 90% of the internet is BS, the other 10% is hard to find, but worth it. More like 99.5% to 0.5%

10) Prime lenses = Gold Well... sometimes... But gold to me would be Zoom+Prime

11) Pro-Gear is not needed for Pro-Photos. Pro just means professional, to be a professional would naturally mean you have professional gear and software, tis a definition of a career, not quality.

12) Beginners talk about cameras, Pros talk about lenses, and Master don't say a lot, but when they do, it's usually about light. Yeah, lighting is everything, that's why I like studio.


and many more.... Who wants to add?


Sooo yeah, they in red.

[trythis]

Learn about perspective. Zooming is NOT the same as getting closer. Each has its place; understand the difference.

As a newbie, I would appreciate a little more on this one! Can you tell me what you mean?

[SkipD]

As a newbie, I would appreciate a little more on this one! Can you tell me what you mean?Please read our "sticky" tutorial titled Perspective Control in Images - Focal Length or Distance? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=672913). The "sticky" thread can be found at the top of the General Photography Talk forum.

[tkbslc]

I think the start with manual film camera is actually poor advice. It becomes much harder to learn what you are doing wrong when you don't have all your shot settings embedded in each picture. I'll still come home with soft shots and wonder wth went wrong and then look at the shutter speed, ISO, focus points, etc and learn what I need to fix next time. While you can take copious notes of each shot, it kind of takes away from the experience of shooting. Also, film and developing costs can disourage doing random tests to learn a topic. Like "trythis" having the perspective question above. With digital, they can go out and shoot 50 shots to figure this out on their own. They can shoot and different focal lengths and distances and watch things change in real time on their LCD. With film, many would be hesitant to burn through $10-15 to experiment. I think 5000 out of my first 6000 shots were me goofing around with the camera figuring out what I could do with it. And I think it changed my photography for the better. That would have been 200 rolls of film!

[FlyingPhotog]

6 keepers out of 24 will teach good habits faster than 6 out of 600...

Whether you use pen / paper or EXIF, the student still has to study the techniques, apply and record the settings and do a post mortem on the results.

Like "They" say: Practice does not make Perfect. Perfect Practice makes Perfect.

[SkipD]

I think the start with manual film camera is actually poor advice. It becomes much harder to learn what you are doing wrong when you don't have all your shot settings embedded in each picture. I'll still come home with soft shots and wonder wth went wrong and then look at the shutter speed, ISO, focus points, etc and learn what I need to fix next time. While you can take copious notes of each shot, it kind of takes away from the experience of shooting. Also, film and developing costs can disourage doing random tests to learn a topic. Like "trythis" having the perspective question above. With digital, they can go out and shoot 50 shots to figure this out on their own. They can shoot and different focal lengths and distances and watch things change in real time on their LCD. With film, many would be hesitant to burn through $10-15 to experiment. I think 5000 out of my first 6000 shots were me goofing around with the camera figuring out what I could do with it. And I think it changed my photography for the better. That would have been 200 rolls of film!I tend to agree with the above.

What I do solidly recommend for anyone who wants to really learn the basics of photography in the digital world, though, is to lock out ALL (or at least as much as possible) of the automation in today's cameras and work fully manually like we did with our film cameras back in the "olden days". Learn exposure measurement and control with a handheld light meter.

Once the basics are learned, then the newbie can start learning how to apply the camera's automation in ways that still lets him/her make the important decisions and keep control of the creation of images.

[FlyingPhotog]

Which is basically my point...

- Stop and Think About It
- Document It
- Shoot It
- Study It

Just blowing through frame after frame after frame with no goal or intent in mind is useless.

[tkbslc]

6 keepers out of 24 will teach good habits faster than 6 out of 600...

how does that relate with what I said? Are you implying a newbie would get 25% keepers with film, but only 1% with digital?

Whether you use pen / paper or EXIF, the student still has to study the techniques, apply and record the settings and do a post mortem on the results.

Can't argue that, but if I go out to do a family shoot for the first time, I am not sure the family will sit still long enough for me to take notes of everything I do. Digital records it for me and I have it there to study when I get home.

Like "They" say: Practice does not make Perfect. Perfect Practice makes Perfect.

"They" sound pretentious. How does one practice photography "perfectly"?

[mikekelley]

I say learn controls on a digital camera, then pick up a film camera to go have fun with, just so you can appreciate it for what it is.

But don't lose any sleep over it. I learned on film and just recently (2 years ago) made the transition to digital. Film is way overhyped as a learning tool.

It's like saying..learn how to type on a typewriter before a computer...because you'll make less mistakes when you can't just hit the delete key!

[photoguy6405]

People can pay as close attention using digital as they would using film, but... will they? Most will not.

Having said that, while I believe most people would be better off starting with film, I would not push a newbie in that direction. They either want to learn or they don't.

[FlyingPhotog]

how does that relate with what I said? Are you implying a newbie would get 25% keepers with film, but only 1% with digital?

Not what I'm saying at all. It will be easier to find the six keepers out of only 24 instead of 600. It will be easier to see why the six are keepers in relation to the other 18 instead of trying to compare it to 594 other images. It's simply a question of scale.

Can't argue that, but if I go out to do a family shoot for the first time, I am not sure the family will sit still long enough for me to take notes of everything I do. Digital records it for me and I have it there to study when I get home.

If you're out with your family, I hope they would be fine with you taking some extra time because I hope they support your learning curve. If it's not your family, why are you waisting their time if you don't know what you're doing?

"They" sound pretentious. How does one practice photography "perfectly"?

In the same fashion you practice anything. Study, Observation, Repetition, Experimentation, Practice, etc...

Like I said, blindly holding the shutter down just to see what "cool" stuff you get may be fun, but it teaches you nothing. If you don't know what you want to acheive (in anything .. not just photography) then how can you possibly know if you're getting warmer or getting colder along the way?

[In2Photos]

6 keepers out of 24 will teach good habits faster than 6 out of 600...

Whether you use pen / paper or EXIF, the student still has to study the techniques, apply and record the settings and do a post mortem on the results.

Like "They" say: Practice does not make Perfect. Perfect Practice makes Perfect.
I was just going to write:

Spend more time taking less pictures and less time taking more pictures.

[tkbslc]

Like I said, blindly holding the shutter down just to see what "cool" stuff you get may be fun, but it teaches you nothing. If you don't know what you want to acheive (in anything .. not just photography) then how can you possibly know if you're getting warmer or getting colder along the way?

I don't think that is what I was saying.

Here's how I approached it in the beginning, and still do for some tasks I am trying to learn. Say I want to shoot some portraits but I don't really have much experience. I might go shoot 100 shots of my daughter (if she lets me) trying various combinations of focal length, aperture and also different ways to focus and expose. Then I will see which ones turn out the best in the end. Now maybe I only got 4 shots I like, but I also have 96 shots I didn't like and I can look at them and learn why. Next time I am shooting similar kind of portraits, I know exactly what I want to do and why and I might end up only shooting 24 and getting 15 that I like. I am not blindly pushing the shutter, and I am experimenting. With film, I wouldn't dare try many new ways of doing anything because of film and development costs.

[FlyingPhotog]

I went based off of this statement:

I think 5000 out of my first 6000 shots were me goofing around with the camera figuring out what I could do with it.

But I'll grant you that you did add:

And I think it changed my photography for the better.

But I'd like to ask: How did it change your photography for the better? What did you learn from those 5000 frames that made the other 1000 keepers?

[avantcoreVB]

I don't think that is what I was saying.

Here's how I approached it in the beginning, and still do for some tasks I am trying to learn. Say I want to shoot some portraits but I don't really have much experience. I might go shoot 100 shots of my daughter (if she lets me) trying various combinations of focal length, aperture and also different ways to focus and expose. Then I will see which ones turn out the best in the end. Now maybe I only got 4 shots I like, but I also have 96 shots I didn't like and I can look at them and learn why. Next time I am shooting similar kind of portraits, I know exactly what I want to do and why and I might end up only shooting 24 and getting 15 that I like. I am not blindly pushing the shutter, and I am experimenting. With film, I wouldn't dare try many new ways of doing anything because of film and development costs.

I'm going to have to agree here. I never shot film prior to switching from a P&S about a year and a half ago. But I went into the new process straight into manual, testing exposures, isos, framing, etc and I can certainly say I've learned a lot more because the screw ups had recorded data that I could sit down and ask the one important question you should ask yourself about an image that doesn't work or speak to you: Why?

Would I have learned as much if I had to factor costs into my personal learning? Absolutely not! I'd spend more time worrying about wasting a shot because I would be thinking about it in terms of $$$.

[tkbslc]

But I'd like to ask: How did it change your photography for the better? What did you learn from those 5000 frames that made the other 1000 keepers?

How am I to answer that? Do you want a list?

The only answer I can think of is that I learned everything I know now by taking pictures of things and learning why things worked or didn't as well as doing lots of reading and thinking.

[FlyingPhotog]

How am I to answer that? Do you want a list?

The only answer I can think of is that I learned everything I know now by taking pictures of things and learning why things worked or didn't as well as doing lots of reading and thinking.

Which is all we're trying to encourage new dSLR users to do...

[tkbslc]

Which is all we're trying to encourage new dSLR users to do...

So why does that require or even suggest using a film camera?

[FlyingPhotog]

So why does that require or even suggest using a film camera?

Obviously it doesn't have to be a film camera...

The analogy I was trying to make is that learning photography is like learning to fly. You don't learn to fly in an F-16 and similarly, you don't learn to make quality images with 32Gb CF cards being devoured at the rate of 8-10 FPS either.

And no, I'm not saying people shouldn't do what makes them happy...

If someone wants to buy the biggest and baddest and go out and spray and pray, I say go nuts. But, don't come back saying that the gear is flawed or Canon/Nikon/Sony sucks or use the other 998 excuses we've all seen here on POTN as to why your photography isn't improving.

Bottom Line: There are ways to learn and there are ways to stumble accross things.

The "Less Is More" approach (IMO) is a better way to really learn and get concepts to stick. If you learn it well up front, then it doesn't become something you wish you knew then. It starts as something you know now...

[photoguy6405]

So why does that require or even suggest using a film camera?
I can't speak for others, but the way I interpret the sentiment is that people are forced to stop and think more when they use film... precisely because of the cost factor, the lack of immediate feedback, etc. Too many people will take the easy route if given the option, and in the case of photography will set it on auto, or bracket the hell out of everything and just pick the best one without even stopping to think *why* one was better than the other.

[FlyingPhotog]

I can't speak for others, but the way I interpret the sentiment is that people are forced to stop and think more when they use film... precisely because of the cost factor, the lack of immediate feedback, etc. Too many people will take the easy route if given the option, and in the case of photography will set it on auto, or bracket the hell out of everything and just pick the best one without even stopping to think *why* one was better than the other.

That pretty much sums up where I was headed...

[photoguy6405]

I think a good analogy is driving. As a general rule, I do believe that starting with all-manual makes one a better photographer faster. "Faster" being the key word. Kind fo a 'sink or swim' process. As with any general rule, there will be exceptions, of course.

Same with driving. Most people nowadays learn with an automatic transmission, and are afraid of manual transmissions (sticks). Yet, IMO, people who learn sticks are, for the most part, better drivers and better equipped to handle out-of-the-ordinary situations. They're more adaptable. They have at least a subconscious better understanding what they're doing, even when they drive an automatic. Again, of course there will be some exceptions to the rule.

God forbid you should put a person under the age of 30 behind a column shift these days. :p

[FlyingPhotog]

Got news for you...

I'm well past 30 and even I wouldn't want to see "Three On The Tree..."

[photoguy6405]

Got news for you...

I'm well past 30 and even I wouldn't want to see "Three On The Tree..."
I am too, and most people my age can't drive them. I learned at 21. Same as a stick, really, you just have to know where each gear is.

The cut-off age would actually probably be closer to 60 for most people.

Does anybody even make those anymore? I don't think you could buy a new one even if you wanted to.

[tkbslc]

I can't speak for others, but the way I interpret the sentiment is that people are forced to stop and think more when they use film... precisely because of the cost factor, the lack of immediate feedback, etc. Too many people will take the easy route if given the option, and in the case of photography will set it on auto, or bracket the hell out of everything and just pick the best one without even stopping to think *why* one was better than the other.

So you are afraid to try anything new, right? That sounds like a crappy way to learn, sorry.

[FlyingPhotog]

Dunno if any of the pickup makers offer manual on the column anymore or not. I'm going to guess not...

I started at age 14 driving a stick in parts of Europe and the Middle East. Made it a lot easier when I was actually legal and back in the US.

[bspawr]

0. If your not passionate about what your shooting, others won't be either.

[FlyingPhotog]

So you are afraid to try anything new, right? That sounds like a crappy way to learn, sorry.

C'mon... That's not the point. This is a valid discussion and everyone's POV is welcome.

I experimented with film plenty of times and (Horrors...) I also bracketed!

[photoguy6405]

So you are afraid to try anything new, right? That sounds like a crappy way to learn, sorry.
Your comprehension is lacking. That's not what I said.

[tkbslc]

C'mon... That's not the point. This is a valid discussion and everyone's POV is welcome.



What? You guys started arguing with my methods for learning, I am just trying to do the same.

I experimented with film plenty of times and (Horrors...) I also bracketed!

And you are trying to tell me it was better than digital for that purpose?

I just don't get what you guys are arguing here. If you want to learn, isn't having instant notes and feedback kind of nice? maybe better even? Isn't it cool to be able to correct mistakes in the field by chimping a test shot instead of waiting until you get home and trying to remember what went wrong?

[photoguy6405]

I just don't get what you guys are arguing here. If you want to learn, isn't having instant notes and feedback kind of nice?
Absolutely... in theory.

...maybe better even? Isn't it cool to be able to correct mistakes in the field by chimping a test shot instead of waiting until you get home and trying to remember what went wrong?
In practicality, most people will not take advantage of that learning opportunity.

[FlyingPhotog]

People can ultimately do whatever the hell they want.

I simply believe that starting slowly with the basics and using those as building blocks makes for a better way to learn than simply taking the camera out of the box and shooting until something pleasing shows up on screen.

Furthermore, if you impose a restriction to "spray and pray" (and it can be digital in One Shot with a 128Mb card .. it doesn't have to be film) you learn to make images and not "take pitchers."

Maybe I'm mis-interpreting the core of this thread but I read it as "Why are you better now than when you started?" "What key piece of information was missing when you first got your camera and how did it make a difference when you figured it out?"

I'm mearly trying to suggest that those knowledge gaps can be a lot smaller, a lot sooner with an applied learning method instead relying on the "Blind Pig" theory.

Anyone can break the rules without knowing them but if you take the time to learn the rules (Rule of Thirds, etc...), you learn why breaking them is somtimes necessary and why it works.

[ni$mo350]

It's probably already been added but shoot in manual from the very start. I did it and learned what did what very quickly by trial and error. Luckily with the help of POTN and members like the OP, I researched enough to know this list before I did anthing foolish. I upgraded my glass before my body, got a good tripod, framed properly so I didn't need to crop in post, learned to shoot as close to what I wanted out of the camera so I limited my post work, etc. There's too many to list.

I started shooting on 12/26/09 and I've learned more in the last 6 months due to this site than my co-worker who's been shooting for 2 decades.. I find myself correcting him which is a surprise. If I could add another thing to the list its experience doesn't always mean better pictures. I'm starting to realize that now more than ever. People ask how long I've been shooting and I just tell them awhile. If they can't tell a difference from me shooting a couple months to me shooting for years and years then why should it matter?

[RichSoansPhotos]

I don't know what number what we are at, but here is my 2 pennies
# a f-stop is not from f/5.6 to 6.3....that is one-third stop down :)

[ni$mo350]

Helpful tip #16351368436843684356:

Bring a gripped camera with a flash to a bar and you're instantly everyone's friend :)

#6136136843654368436:

When you're at the track, boys will be boys and size does matter.. says the 120lb kid struggling to hand hold his Bigma.

[tkbslc]

Absolutely... in theory.


In practicality, most people will not take advantage of that learning opportunity.

Most people didn't ever learn to use a film camera properly either, despite your theories about forced learning. My mom had a film SLR for 20 years while I was growing up and she doesn't know what aperture does.

I still stand by my statement. If you truly want to learn photography, digital is pretty darn handy and you can learn more quickly and conveniently than with film thanks to instant feedback and "free film".

If you don't want to learn photography, then it doesn't matter anyway.

[photoguy6405]

Most people didn't ever learn to use a film camera properly either, despite your theories about forced learning. My mom had a film SLR for 20 years while I was growing up and she doesn't know what aperture does.

I still stand by my statement. If you truly want to learn photography, digital is pretty darn handy and you can learn more quickly and conveniently than with film thanks to instant feedback and "free film".

If you don't want to learn photography, then it doesn't matter anyway.
For the most part I agree with that, and always have and have even said so, regardless your insistence in lumping me in with the other side of the debate. Given that, I can also see where a film and/or all manual camera can be a extra motivation to learn faster. In addition to desire, not in place of.

[JeffreyG]

Absolutely... in theory.


In practicality, most people will not take advantage of that learning opportunity.
I shot film for years and I had very little understanding of what I was doing. I didn't shoot all that much (due to cost) and I am a lousy note taker so I wound up relying a lot on automation. Cameras were largely magic boxes to me.

Once I moved to digital I learned a ton. I came to completely understand exposure. Then I moved on to understanding flash, then off-camera flash and ultimately mixing flash with ambient and gelling flashes etc. etc.

The low cost of shooting coupled with the instant feedback and automated note taking of digital are the real reason I know what I'm doing with photography.

[Tlee05]

I will never crop a image, unless it needs to be a A size image. Is it just me? I want all my pixels!
I shoot on a 5d MkII maybe if I used a Hasselblad H4D-60 I may think differently.

A tip is study masters of photography or big house names (get off flickr).
After 5+ years I have only started doing this. My style has changed so much and has pushed me into a new world of photography. I remembered back in the day I would of hated Alec Soth work but now I love it.