macro ballhead - tripod combos crosspost

[ceriltheblade]

sorry for the cross post, but it seems that the macro discussion section was the inappropriate section for this question:

Hi all.
unfortunately I live in a desert.
and therefore do not have a truly available "B&H" for some help...

I am looking at tripods (for the future) for general use, but with a specific eye to macro shots.

I kind of liked the idea of the mobile middle column of the manfrotto 190 xprob, but it doesn't seem available in my area.

and on manfrotto's site I didn't see a notation as to which of their other tripods had this feature.

In general, i plan to mount the 7d with the 100 macro and up to two flashes with modifiers....

and I had planned to get this on the xprob190 and 498rc2...(which is a bit of "overkill" but I have (future) plans of lenses like the 150/180 macro and maybe even a 70-200 f2.8.....

so my question is this:
any other ideas about good tripods for the macro scene? does the mobile middle column really help in macro shooting, or is it just my own misunderstanding?

caveat - the lighter the better! :smile:

[lerroy]

sorry i cant really help at all

but im also keen to find out about this

maybe a tripod with focus rails or the ability to add them ?

anyone have experience

[ceriltheblade]

i don;t expect that the addition of focus rails would be a problem at all since it attaches vis a vis a 1/4-20 and most heads indeed use that system. I would expect that the question would be an issue of torque and stability.

[lannes]

Vanguard Alta Pro tripod also has a pivoting center column

[MyLookingGlassEye]

Overkill?
Not at all.
In fact, if you're looking at a 70-200 f2.8 you might find the 190 on the edge of being too light.
Think of that inveitable errant gust of wind.
Hey, I'm all for light,
but when you've got your $$$$ sitting on it...

Gripped 7D & 100L, used with & without Kenko tubes and/or rail.
I use a Manfrotto 055 CF version., beefier legs but still pretty light.
The Q90 center column is very handy for macro;
Just remember to counterweight it to prevent tip-over.

Sometimes I'll use a pair of Manfrotto SuperClamps, (one on each of a pair of the legs) with Manfrotto 233 arms & S3 mini ball heads to mount my flashes.

Velbon made a Carbon Fiber version of one of their 500 series that was very similar (the Sherpa 535CF, I think it was).

[The Ran]

Check out the Giottos MTL9361B ( http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/76229/show.html ), it's what I have and in my opinion better than the 190XPROB from Manfrotto and cheaper. It has the adjustable centre column, however unlike the Manfrottos it isn't limited to just horizontal and vertical, it can be locked in any position from straight up to pointing straight down (also saves removing the centre column and putting it in upside down to get down low). Because of this not only do you get added manoeuvrability but you can actually go lower as the end of the column can actually go below the base (or whatever the bit where the three legs meet is called), this way you can literally get the ballhead on the floor. I can't speak when it comes to comparing the stability compared to the 190XPROB as I've never used it, however it holds my 20D and 400mm f/5.6 (about 2kg) or my 135mm f/2.5 on bellows (don't know the weight) perfectly fine, and that's with a cheap £20 ballhead.

[mjmackinnon]

I can't talk about the 190 as I don't own one. I went with the 055 to cover just that reason. I wanted to get one tripod that will give me the creative freedom to take the shots that I want.

I use mine with a UWA lens to do wide angle close ups on small flowers. I needed to get very close to the ground and still have stability. This tripod does that and more.

A wise investment but sadly it's not light. I'd rather trade off weight for rigidity and functionality.

Matt.

[ceriltheblade]

thanks all for the ideas and the links.

mylookingglasseye - the 70-200 2.8 is still in the realm of being a distant purchase, whereas the macro is a very near purchase
my 7d is not gripped (again - the lighter the better! :) ) but I will be considering 1-2 sets of kenkos plus 100 macro plus/minus reversed 50mm on the end with and without the focus rail. I am a bit worried about the torque on the ball head. great idea on the superclamps. I will look into those. Thanks a lot.

Lannes - thanks for the heads up on those. I hadn't seen them before.

The Ran - thanks for the idea. I will look at the giottos as well. They seem pretty cool and it is a plus that they are made by manfrotto.

Matt - thanks for your take. unfortunately, being the amateur that I am, and the father of 3 young kids, at this point in my life, if I take a tripod with me, it won't leave the car during the trip if it is heavy....compromises will have to be made...but thanks for the advice.

[MyLookingGlassEye]

thanks all for the ideas and the links.

mylookingglasseye - the 70-200 2.8 is still in the realm of being a distant purchase, whereas the macro is a very near purchase
my 7d is not gripped (again - the lighter the better! :) ) but I will be considering 1-2 sets of kenkos plus 100 macro plus/minus reversed 50mm on the end with and without the focus rail. I am a bit worried about the torque on the ball head. great idea on the superclamps. I will look into those. Thanks a lot.

I've gone this route aready, and there are some practical limits. I found 2 sets on the 100L and a 2X TC is about it. That's works out to just over 5X magnification and the working distance is next to nothing so you better have CALM bugs to shoot.
The really nice thing about using the 100L is you can use the EOS utility to control things, getting your hands off the camera!!

The longer the rig, the more leverage it will exert. You're correct, it will eventually overpower the strength of your head...
unless you are going to start reefing on the knobs with pliers
(A definite NO-NO.)

When you add tubes, you start moving the weight of the lens farther from the body. With one set it's not too bad, but with 2 sets, it starts to create a problem with barrel sag.
The cure is the Manfrotto 293 Telephoto lens support bracket (http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/cache/offonce/pid/3224)

If you are using multi tube sets, I wouldn't try to add a reversed lens on the front without that brace. I'm pretty sure it will damage the setup somehow; likely bend or snap a mount ring on a tube. Whenever I added my TC to the mix, I mounted it to the cam body so it's weight is carried close.

Oh yes, you might not be able to add a front reversed lens to the setup depending on where the focal point ends up. Too much mag & the focus point ends up inside the front glass element meaning you'll never get a good focus on your subject.

[Simon_Gardner]

Check out the Giottos MTL9361B ( http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/76229/show.html ), it's what I have and in my opinion better than the 190XPROB from Manfrotto and cheaper. It has the adjustable centre column, however unlike the Manfrottos it isn't limited to just horizontal and vertical, it can be locked in any position from straight up to pointing straight down (also saves removing the centre column and putting it in upside down to get down low). Because of this not only do you get added manoeuvrability but you can actually go lower as the end of the column can actually go below the base (or whatever the bit where the three legs meet is called), this way you can literally get the ballhead on the floor.

IMHO, there's only one way to go for that sort of work and it's a Benbo - preferably one of the original Kennet Engineering ones. The newer ones are not as good.

I use Gitzo offset ball heads but YMMV.

Oh and you'll need a focussing rail depending on how macro your macro is going to be (and forget autofocus completely).

[Someone will correct me I am sure, but I suspect Live View will de facto lock the mirror up for you.]

[The Ran]

IMHO, there's only one way to go for that sort of work and it's a Benbo - preferably one of the original Kennet Engineering ones. The newer ones are not as good.

I use Gitzo offset ball heads but YMMV.

Oh and you'll need a focussing rail depending on how macro your macro is going to be (and forget autofocus completely).

[Someone will correct me I am sure, but I suspect Live View will de facto lock the mirror up for you.]

Sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you're referring too, I feel you may have quoted me accidentally. I never mentioned what sort of macro work I do, however for what I do the Giottos serves me perfectly fine, that includes macro work (1:1 and greater magnification) as well as landscapes. I don't use focussing rails, I use my bellows to focus (not sure if that's considered the same thing).

[RPCrowe]

I use a Giottos MT-8180 Carbon Fiber tripod which is a wonderfully solid rig that can articulate and place your camera/lens in just about any position which is excellent for macro work.

The MT-8180 is no longer produced, I got mine at a good price because it was a discontinued item. However, Giottos produces loads of equivalent tripods in aluminum as well as carbon fiber.

IMO, they are every bit as viable as the GITZO tripods at a much lower cost.

However, I am not totally keen on the Giottos Arca Compatible Quick release clamps because they incorporate a safety stud which makes mounting of other than Giottos plates a bit of a hassle. However, I would definitely get a head with an Arca Compatible quick release. There is no better way to mount a camera/lens.

www.giottos,com (http://www.giottos,com)

BTW: I like the Giottos line better than the Benbo and better than the Chinese Mainland knock-off of the Benbo which they call the Benro (they even stole the name). I had the opportunity to play with a Benro tripod and head which was carried by a Chinese photographer whom I met on the Bund in Shanghai last spring. It is a nice tripod but, in my short experience, the Giottos, which are made in Formosa, seem to be made more solidly. The above comments are not to be construed that I think either the Benbo or Benro tripods are inferior, just that I like my Giottos better.

[Simon_Gardner]

@The Ran
I was responding to your comments re the ability to get the head where you want it in pretty much any circumstances including very lower or minus.

There's still nothing like a Benbo for that.

[The Ran]

Oh right, sorry I didn't catch that. What exactly makes a Benbo more suited to those situations? My Giottos can certainly manage it well enough, the only position I can't get the lens pointed is literally under the feet of the tripod.

[Simon_Gardner]

Oh right, sorry I didn't catch that. What exactly makes a Benbo more suited to those situations? My Giottos can certainly manage it well enough, the only position I can't get the lens pointed is literally under the feet of the tripod.

I don't think there's any way to describe it unless you are familiar with one; there's nothing to compare. I very much doubt there’s any other tripod that runs it even close except for a direct knock-off.

I do still have a trad tripod. I use it for my bird-watching scope for which it was bought.

[RPCrowe]

I don't think there's any way to describe it unless you are familiar with one; there's nothing to compare. I very much doubt there’s any other tripod that runs it even close except for a direct knock-off.

I do still have a trad tripod. I use it for my bird-watching scope for which it was bought.

I am wondering which model Giottos tripod you have used that you are comparing the Benbo to...

I have used the Benbo 2 tripod and with an Arca Compatible ball head. it weighs well over 9 pounds which is about two pounds heavier than my Giottos with head.